Tragak
2013-06-08, 09:32 PM
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Acheron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility. I found this signature and corresponding quote-chain a while ago. I wasn't aware of complaints towards the design of the Outer Planes until then, but since then I've been going over descriptions of them and their corresponding alignments to see if I could come up with better explanations for each that the original designers apparently didn't provide. I was wondering if anybody on the forum would like to critique what I have so far.
My sources for the Outer Planes specifically come primarily from ObsidianPortal (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/to-chance-with-hell-planescape/wikis/outer-planes) and PathGuy (http://www.pathguy.com/planes.htm), while my sources for the Alignments associated with each come primarily from EasyDamus (http://easydamus.com/alignment.html) (my favorite article of which was recently expanded upon in This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283341) thread).
Good Planes:Mount Celestia:*Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) Good (Selfless instead of just Giving): those who care primarily about Benevolence, Conformity, and Tradition, secondarily about Universalism and Security
*An infinite mountain plotted into very specifically defined layers, each based around a few of the specific ways that people need to better themselves in order that they may better help the people around them, and each home to great civilizations where the people work to make each other better in a unique way according to their society's level upon the mountain.
In life these people believed that neither individuals nor society in general could help the people that needed the most without a clear, efficient structure and a disciplined, compassionate population, and they constantly pushed themselves and each other to become better through superior discipline, efficiency, and collaberation. So too in death are they challenged to climb as much of the mountain as possible to purify themselves as much as possible of the specific flaws - in specific ways - that had held them back in life from helping the people around them even more than they already were.Bytopia: *Good (Selfless instead of just Giving) with Lawful tendencies (Organized instead of completely Systematic): those who care primarily about Benevolence, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Universalism
*A world perhaps best resembling what the ideal Material world would look like if pain, need, and destruction were actively minimized by all, as opposed to the other Celestial Realms whose environments depend on the fact that there is already no pain, need, or destruction to worry about. This is a world where everybody wants to work as hard as possible, with as many people as possible and with as much innovation as possible, to ensure that everybody else is as well off as possible.
In life, they believed that structure and discipline were simply very important to ensuring the best for everybody, rather than all-important, that hard work was the most important thing in life while too much regulation and minutiae just made it harder to start anything. So too in death are they allowed to build a world of streamlined societies where everyone gladly works as efficiently as possible to help everybody else without becoming overly rigid.Elysium: *Neutral (Normal, average) Good (Selfless instead of just Giving): those who care primarily about Universalism and Benevolence, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Self-direction
*Even Lawful Good types care about themselves in the sense of needing to "become better" so that they can help even more people even more effectively, lest they be unable to do something that somebody else desperately needs, and even Chaotic Good types care about themselves in the sense of needing to be one of the people creating new ideas for how people can help each other more effectively, lest anybody else not be allowed to contribute new ideas either.
While the Gray Waste of Hades consumes the people who destroyed without wanting to accomplish anything, Elysium functions as the natural, unindoctrinated paradise for the people who think exclusively about their ability to help people, rather than about themselves for having that ability, and gladly lose themselves in the ecstasy of their love for the rest of the world around them.Beastlands: *Good (Selfless instead of just Giving) with Chaotic tendencies (Independent instead of completely Disruptive): those who care primarily about Universalism, secondarily about Benevolence and Self-direction
*Simplicity. For those who care exclusively about people, and feel that any formal, impersonal institutions to either support or to fight against only gets in the way of helping people directly, the idealized view of the natural world serves as the perfect model of compassionate simplicity in a plane where the only thing that matters is the people in it, not some procedure dictated by somebody who's not part of what's actually happening.
This is a world where anybody can help each other anytime they meet without getting slowed down by either doing what they're told instead of what works best or by challenging something potentially bad instead of directly making something definitely good. Arborea: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) Good (Selfless instead of just Giving): those who care primarily about Universalism and Self-direction, secondarily about Benevolence and Stimulation
*A wild, sensual party world for the people who always wanted to help everybody that they could, however different from themselves, and to make sure that no potential bullies - however popular, however "considerate" at the moment - would try to stop them. These are the people who worked tirelessly to balance helping people directly though personal charity and indirectly by making sure, often at great personal risk, that no organized institutions felt comfortable taking too much from anybody or doing too much too them, but who also viewed the conflict with oppressors merely as a chore that they did - howver gladly - for the sake of the other people, rather than enjoying on it's own, and looked forward instead to a world where everybody could be as vibrant and creative as they wanted without having to worry about anybody getting hurt by bullies.
In life, they wanted people to celebrate that they are all unique instead of feeling the need to sacrifice themselves to create clones of whomever happened to be loudest or strongest at the moment, that the world is richer when it has more ways for people to build each other up instead of having fewer. So too in death do they have eternity to celebrate that they can help each other do anything they want, have anything they want, experience anything they want, and create anything they want, now that there are no bullies to worry about anymore.Neutral-ish Planes Arcadia: *Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) with Good tendencies (Giving instead of completely Selfless): those who care primarily for Conformity and Tradition, secondarily about Benevolence and Security
*A meticulously planned, mathematically precise world of harmony and community for people who believe in sacrificing freedom for the legitimate Greater Good for all people as opposed to an imaginary "Greater Good" for justifying cruelty, who truly understand that the system exists to benefit the people as opposed to the other way around, but who go too far in regulating too much of each other's lives based on too comprehensive a definition of "Evil," not always being able to distinguish between truly "dangerous" and merely "different."
They would certainly not want to threaten "undesirables" with violence, for fear of creating a true tyranny where anybody could be victimized next, but they don't see why those different from themselves would not want to either become "better" - adapting themselves to a system that allegedly works better when everybody is the same as each other - or to go someplace else to form their own society where both groups can be out of each other's way.
In life these legalists gave more time and energy to challenging the potential evil of disorder and disobedience than to building the definitive good of all people regardless of differences. So too in death do they stay in a "perfected" community to take care of each other far from anybody considered "excessively" different from themselves. Ysgard: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) with Good tendencies (Giving instead of completely Selfless): those who care primarily about Self-direction, secondarily about Universalism and Stimulation
*The world of those who care too much about victims of oppression and who risk too much antagonizing bullies to qualify as Chaotic Neutral (who will primarily care for their friends and families rather than strangers), but who get too excited about the resulting conflict and spend too much time and energy on it to qualify as perfectly Good (who - even at their most Chaotic - use conflict only as a tool against further oppression rather than as an end in of itself and wish that it was completely unnecessary).
In life these rabble-rousers gave too much more to challenging the potential evil of order and oppression than to building the definitive good of people who need more help rather than less harm. So too in death are they thrown into the greatest boxing ring in the universe, where billions and billions of like-minded competitors can beat each other senseless with whatever brutal, nasty weapons they can come up with specifically because nobody's actually getting hurt in this realm of violence without victims. Mechanus: *Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) Neutral (Normal, average): those who care primarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Security, secondarily about Benevolence and Power
*A clockwork world of those who felt that everybody owed their complete obedience and loyalty to a bureaucratic system that ensured only their basic survival in return - while fully thriving required that they work even harder than that - and expected them to be thankful for the privilege, as allegedly the system invented people for it's own betterment as opposed to the other way around.
In life they cared only for predictability and obedience over common decency and human empathy. So too in death do they become mechanical constructs in a world where everybody else is as thoughtless towards them as they had been in life towards everybody else.Limbo: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) Neutral (Normal, Average): those who care primarily about Stimulation and Self-direction, secondarily about Universalism and Hedonism
*An artistic, exuberant madhouse created by those who spent their lives concerned mostly about their own freedom to explore new and exciting activities, who valued true creativity over baser pleasures, and who didn't want to be forced to help others but still didn't want anyone to get hurt except in self-defense.
In life they wanted mostly to live in their own little worlds, reciprocating the care they got from others and resisting any attempt to be controlled. So too in death are they given an infinite space based entirely around creating absolutely anything they want with whomever they want, co-operating with people who agree with them about what would be the coolest thing to make or do and having infinite space to stay out of the way of people who disagree too strongly to stay friendly.Acheron: The plane that inspired this list in the first place.
*Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) with Evil tendencies (Selfish instead of completely Destructive): those who care primarily about Security, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Power.
*Endless fields of battle fought by those who herded the desperate masses in life for personal benefit, building powerful institutions so that they could exploit the "resource" that is basic human life and labor.
This is not the "reward" of continuing a life of waging war for it's own sake, as those who care primarily about the destruction and violence over loyalty to a cause are probably going to Gehenna or the Gray Waste: they are not truly, Systematically Lawful as they did not want the conflict - however well structured and organized in of itself - to ultimately be made into anything, such as a tyranny where those on top will eventually not have to worry about conflict against rebellions.
Thus, favoring Systematic exploitation over pure Destruction, Acheron is for completely different people: those who had spent their lives working to build something incredibly useful to themselves, yet all but useless to those who served the machine out of desperation. Likewise, those commanding the armies of masters reduced to servants are actually winning personal glories from driving their armies to defeat the others, but they are so far removed in every way from the minions doing the fighting as to go completely unnoticed.
In life these industrialists cared for their legion of minions only enough to ensure that they themselves still had a system to support themselves. So too in death are they driven by remote commanding officers whose victories are meaningless to those who have become the minions, just as their own victories in life had been meaningless to their own minions. Pandemonium: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) with Evil tendencies (Selfish instead of completely Destructive): those who care primarily about Hedonism and Stimulation, secondarily about Self-direction and Achievement.
*A network of caves pulverized by gale-force winds eternally tossing and flinging those who had spent their lives consumed by - and drawing others into - the tempests of their own appetites for novel experiences and substances without wanting to work for anything not part of one of their "games." They did not bother to pay attention to those around them, even to spend the energy to hurt anyone, unless somebody could be drawn into their next "games" and persuaded to become equally thoughtless towards the future of the real world so as to have constant inflow of new "games."Evil Planes: Baator: *Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish): those who care primarily about Security and Power, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Achievement
*Where Mount Celestia serves as the backdrop for great, righteous civilizations at every level, the pits of Baator are delineated into the most cultured, bureaucratic tyrannies imaginable, with non-devils as second-class citizens and the souls of the damned as mere resources not even elevated to slaves. Where citizens of Mount Celestia work at each level to purify themselves of the flaws that had been holding them back in life, Baator has the devil castes exploiting/tormenting the damned in the level based systematically around whichever sin the mortal had primarily relished inflicting in life.
In life they convinced themselves that they belonged to a superior group: one for which all members were expected to watch each other for signs of weakness/betrayal and to handle personal disputes in secret - possibly exploiting the system but never allowing outside sources to appear or be treated as more important - so as to maintain the group's united front. They convinced themselves that this superior group - be it a racially-based crime syndicate or clique within an official aristocracy - could take whatever they wanted from the unworthy, inflict whatever cruelty they felt was "necessary" to keep their victims under control, and should be incredibly difficult for outsiders to become true members of. So too in death are they tormented by an even more efficient system where the new ruling class is even higher above the ones who are now victims and is even more difficult to join than was the one they themselves had established in life. Gehenna: *Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish) with Lawful tendencies (Organized instead of completely Systematic): those who care primarily about Power, secondarily about Security and Achievement
*Violently active volcanoes and not a single square foot of ground sloping less than 45º to be endured by those who gladly joined tyrannies and crime syndicates, believing not that the system had it's own right to exist but simply that climbing through the ranks would be the most effective way for them to take for themselves, believing that surely they wouldn't fail enough to be punished as severely as they were instructed to punish others, that surely they would be able to navigate a system that looks for even the most remote sign of weakness or betrayal to protect itself from with lethal efficiency.
In life, they chose to invest their time and energy not into a world where people build each other up to make the whole world better but into an environment that wanted to kill them if they were (sometimes very creatively) deemed "unreliable." So too in death are they are given a landscape of infinite mountains on which they need either to stay exactly where they are - for fear of losing grip and falling however long it takes to reach a lava flow - or to continue climbing, hoping falsely that being at the top would be any safer. In this world, they are completely dependent on each other to catch them from falling but know perfectly well that the others don't want to for fear of losing their own grip. Hades: *Neutral (Normal, Average) Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish): those who care primarily about Power and Achievement, secondarily about Hedonism and Security
*A vast emptiness that is commonly considered to be "pointless" compared to the better defined, more vibrant Planes. I'm going to take the view that the whole point of the Gray Waste is that the Gray Waste is incredibly pointless, that while there is a reason - however sickening - to be Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil, Neutral Evil is ultimately about not having a reason.
"But the point of Neutral Evil is that you care very much about advancing yourself by any means necessary, that sounds like a very effective reason." No, that is not Evil, that is Selfish. Selfish would certainly be on the eviler side of Neutral, but merely being selfish instead of actually evil only gets you sent to Acheron, Pandemonium or the Outlands, not the Infernal Realms like Hades. You don't qualify as Evil unless you are as spiteful and destructive about what you can't have as you are miserly about what you can.
If all you care about is making everybody else have less than yourself, no matter how you have to do it or how they got it, then there's not a reason anymore. If Neutral Evil is all about having more than someone else, and making them have less will be easier than making yourself have more, then in a world of billions and billions of those people tearing each other down for billions and billions of years, there's not going to be anything left for anybody.
This is not Chaotic, because they at least enjoy the conflict with those they can get away with attacking for being weaker. They still add something to themselves, however intangible, in the sense of how much fun they are having becoming legitimately stronger, rather than just appearing so through lowering the basis for comparison.
If one simply uses conflict and destruction as a tool without enjoying it for it's own sake, then they should at least be making sure that they actually get more for their efforts, instead of just making somebody else have even less; if one isn't going to make sure that they get more from the conflict then they had before, however much less somebody else is left with, than they had better have been enjoying the destruction itself to get at least something out of it, however little.
Pure Evil without true profit or pleasure - attempting to take and/or destroy as much as possible by alternately building what could eventually get in the way and disrupting what could've benefited them later - is ultimately pointless, and every single atom of Earth and Air and Fire and Water in the entire plane of the Gray Waste is molded from this fundamental pointlessness.Carceri: *Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish) with Chaotic tendencies (Independent instead of completely Disruptive): those who care primarily about Hedonism and Achievement, secondarily about Stimulation and Power
*The only plane in the universe that functions specifically as a prison, Carceri is used as containment for those neither personally reliable enough for the tyrannies of Gehenna and Baator nor inter-personally active enough for the orgies of Pandemonium and the Abyss, who took what they could when they could from whomever they could and didn't risk drawing attention to themselves for fear of being stopped by others who would become equally afraid of them.
In life they viewed the world around them as simply an obstacle to be avoided in order that they could hurt anybody anytime they wanted. So too in death are they kept in an infinite prison the way they pretended throughout their lives to be obstructed by already.Abyss: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish): care primarily about Hedonism, Stimulation, and Achievement, secondarily about Power and Self-direction
*Those who enjoyed both murdering dozens and scaring thousands with dramatic performances of anarchic violence - forcing the survivors to clean up the mess instead of having more time to build something new - are sent to a barbaric, tumultuous, frenetic nightmare world of not just a finite number of infinitely-sized sub-planes, but an infinite again number of them, none remotely stable or consistent for even the slightest amount of time except to be more cruel and torturous then any of the levels above them. If one does not know exactly how to get from one level to another specifically - and sometimes even then, considering the violent turbulence in the very fabric of this world - then they will never reach a level safer, as the finite number of levels above their current is absolutely meaningless in the face of the infinite number below.
In life they wanted only to swallow the world around them into their own sadistic temper and violence, rarely if ever slowing down, only pushing the boundaries of what they had already done and found boring through repetition. So too in death are they rapidly swallowed by the tortures of increasingly horrible monsters that can only get worse even if they somehow escape those previous.
Alignments involved:
Law-Chaos:Lawful: *Systematic; loves those who are stronger.
*Believes that very clear authority and efficient institutions is the best way to make society the way that it "should be," whether for Good or Evil, and that any problems with the system should be solved exclusively from within using the system's own procedures.Neutral (Lawful tendencies): *Organized; cares about those who are stronger more than most other do.
*Believes that efficient institutions are an extremely important tool, but not important in their own right.Neutral: *Average/normal; tolerates those who are stronger about as much as the next guy does.
*Supports "the system" about as much as the next guy; if he thinks that he can get away with breaking a rule that he deems unimportant enough, he might try it, but he generally tries to accommodate those in power about as much as anybody else does. Neutral (Chaotic tendencies): *Independent; doesn't care about those who are stronger.
*Believes that the authorities aren't any better than anybody else and doesn't go out of his way to support them, but generally tries to stay out of their way instead of challenging them outright unless they feel that isn't working, as it would still be viewed as letting the system win by fighting for permission to something instead of just doing it. Chaotic: *Disruptive; hates those who are stronger.
*Believes that any sufficiently formal and bureaucratic institutions just get in the way of those who are in the right, that they should be shown enough resistance that overstepping is not viewed as being worth the effort (even if the regulations right now are currently just inconvenient instead of intolerable, as authority used to being unchallenged could still cross the line in the future), and will probably only join loose, informal organizations drafted specifically so that the members can challenge the more rigid institutions to make sure that they never feel comfortable oversteppingGood-Evil Good: *Selfless: loves those who are weaker
*Devote themselves completely to making the world a better place for everybody, even at great personal costNeutral (Good tendencies): *Giving: cares more about those who are weaker than most others do
*Believes that society should build up as many people as effectively as possible, but are not giving enough of themselves (however much more than most), possibly by investing too much more time and energy in challenging potential evil than in building definitive good. Neutral: *Normal/average: tolerates those who are weaker about as much as the other guy does
*Believe that society's only duty is to ensure that enough people survive, and that it's on individuals and their personal connections whether or not they thrive (while they might certainly choose to give charity, they would not want to be told to) Neutral (Evil tendencies): *Selfish; doesn't care about those who are weaker
*Believe that they can take whatever they want as long as they aren't actively hurting anybody in the process Evil: *Destructive: hates those who are weaker
*Believe that they have the right to take anything that they can, hurt anybody that they "have to" in order to do so, and possibly destroy anything that they cannot
My sources for the Outer Planes specifically come primarily from ObsidianPortal (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/to-chance-with-hell-planescape/wikis/outer-planes) and PathGuy (http://www.pathguy.com/planes.htm), while my sources for the Alignments associated with each come primarily from EasyDamus (http://easydamus.com/alignment.html) (my favorite article of which was recently expanded upon in This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283341) thread).
Good Planes:Mount Celestia:*Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) Good (Selfless instead of just Giving): those who care primarily about Benevolence, Conformity, and Tradition, secondarily about Universalism and Security
*An infinite mountain plotted into very specifically defined layers, each based around a few of the specific ways that people need to better themselves in order that they may better help the people around them, and each home to great civilizations where the people work to make each other better in a unique way according to their society's level upon the mountain.
In life these people believed that neither individuals nor society in general could help the people that needed the most without a clear, efficient structure and a disciplined, compassionate population, and they constantly pushed themselves and each other to become better through superior discipline, efficiency, and collaberation. So too in death are they challenged to climb as much of the mountain as possible to purify themselves as much as possible of the specific flaws - in specific ways - that had held them back in life from helping the people around them even more than they already were.Bytopia: *Good (Selfless instead of just Giving) with Lawful tendencies (Organized instead of completely Systematic): those who care primarily about Benevolence, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Universalism
*A world perhaps best resembling what the ideal Material world would look like if pain, need, and destruction were actively minimized by all, as opposed to the other Celestial Realms whose environments depend on the fact that there is already no pain, need, or destruction to worry about. This is a world where everybody wants to work as hard as possible, with as many people as possible and with as much innovation as possible, to ensure that everybody else is as well off as possible.
In life, they believed that structure and discipline were simply very important to ensuring the best for everybody, rather than all-important, that hard work was the most important thing in life while too much regulation and minutiae just made it harder to start anything. So too in death are they allowed to build a world of streamlined societies where everyone gladly works as efficiently as possible to help everybody else without becoming overly rigid.Elysium: *Neutral (Normal, average) Good (Selfless instead of just Giving): those who care primarily about Universalism and Benevolence, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Self-direction
*Even Lawful Good types care about themselves in the sense of needing to "become better" so that they can help even more people even more effectively, lest they be unable to do something that somebody else desperately needs, and even Chaotic Good types care about themselves in the sense of needing to be one of the people creating new ideas for how people can help each other more effectively, lest anybody else not be allowed to contribute new ideas either.
While the Gray Waste of Hades consumes the people who destroyed without wanting to accomplish anything, Elysium functions as the natural, unindoctrinated paradise for the people who think exclusively about their ability to help people, rather than about themselves for having that ability, and gladly lose themselves in the ecstasy of their love for the rest of the world around them.Beastlands: *Good (Selfless instead of just Giving) with Chaotic tendencies (Independent instead of completely Disruptive): those who care primarily about Universalism, secondarily about Benevolence and Self-direction
*Simplicity. For those who care exclusively about people, and feel that any formal, impersonal institutions to either support or to fight against only gets in the way of helping people directly, the idealized view of the natural world serves as the perfect model of compassionate simplicity in a plane where the only thing that matters is the people in it, not some procedure dictated by somebody who's not part of what's actually happening.
This is a world where anybody can help each other anytime they meet without getting slowed down by either doing what they're told instead of what works best or by challenging something potentially bad instead of directly making something definitely good. Arborea: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) Good (Selfless instead of just Giving): those who care primarily about Universalism and Self-direction, secondarily about Benevolence and Stimulation
*A wild, sensual party world for the people who always wanted to help everybody that they could, however different from themselves, and to make sure that no potential bullies - however popular, however "considerate" at the moment - would try to stop them. These are the people who worked tirelessly to balance helping people directly though personal charity and indirectly by making sure, often at great personal risk, that no organized institutions felt comfortable taking too much from anybody or doing too much too them, but who also viewed the conflict with oppressors merely as a chore that they did - howver gladly - for the sake of the other people, rather than enjoying on it's own, and looked forward instead to a world where everybody could be as vibrant and creative as they wanted without having to worry about anybody getting hurt by bullies.
In life, they wanted people to celebrate that they are all unique instead of feeling the need to sacrifice themselves to create clones of whomever happened to be loudest or strongest at the moment, that the world is richer when it has more ways for people to build each other up instead of having fewer. So too in death do they have eternity to celebrate that they can help each other do anything they want, have anything they want, experience anything they want, and create anything they want, now that there are no bullies to worry about anymore.Neutral-ish Planes Arcadia: *Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) with Good tendencies (Giving instead of completely Selfless): those who care primarily for Conformity and Tradition, secondarily about Benevolence and Security
*A meticulously planned, mathematically precise world of harmony and community for people who believe in sacrificing freedom for the legitimate Greater Good for all people as opposed to an imaginary "Greater Good" for justifying cruelty, who truly understand that the system exists to benefit the people as opposed to the other way around, but who go too far in regulating too much of each other's lives based on too comprehensive a definition of "Evil," not always being able to distinguish between truly "dangerous" and merely "different."
They would certainly not want to threaten "undesirables" with violence, for fear of creating a true tyranny where anybody could be victimized next, but they don't see why those different from themselves would not want to either become "better" - adapting themselves to a system that allegedly works better when everybody is the same as each other - or to go someplace else to form their own society where both groups can be out of each other's way.
In life these legalists gave more time and energy to challenging the potential evil of disorder and disobedience than to building the definitive good of all people regardless of differences. So too in death do they stay in a "perfected" community to take care of each other far from anybody considered "excessively" different from themselves. Ysgard: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) with Good tendencies (Giving instead of completely Selfless): those who care primarily about Self-direction, secondarily about Universalism and Stimulation
*The world of those who care too much about victims of oppression and who risk too much antagonizing bullies to qualify as Chaotic Neutral (who will primarily care for their friends and families rather than strangers), but who get too excited about the resulting conflict and spend too much time and energy on it to qualify as perfectly Good (who - even at their most Chaotic - use conflict only as a tool against further oppression rather than as an end in of itself and wish that it was completely unnecessary).
In life these rabble-rousers gave too much more to challenging the potential evil of order and oppression than to building the definitive good of people who need more help rather than less harm. So too in death are they thrown into the greatest boxing ring in the universe, where billions and billions of like-minded competitors can beat each other senseless with whatever brutal, nasty weapons they can come up with specifically because nobody's actually getting hurt in this realm of violence without victims. Mechanus: *Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) Neutral (Normal, average): those who care primarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Security, secondarily about Benevolence and Power
*A clockwork world of those who felt that everybody owed their complete obedience and loyalty to a bureaucratic system that ensured only their basic survival in return - while fully thriving required that they work even harder than that - and expected them to be thankful for the privilege, as allegedly the system invented people for it's own betterment as opposed to the other way around.
In life they cared only for predictability and obedience over common decency and human empathy. So too in death do they become mechanical constructs in a world where everybody else is as thoughtless towards them as they had been in life towards everybody else.Limbo: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) Neutral (Normal, Average): those who care primarily about Stimulation and Self-direction, secondarily about Universalism and Hedonism
*An artistic, exuberant madhouse created by those who spent their lives concerned mostly about their own freedom to explore new and exciting activities, who valued true creativity over baser pleasures, and who didn't want to be forced to help others but still didn't want anyone to get hurt except in self-defense.
In life they wanted mostly to live in their own little worlds, reciprocating the care they got from others and resisting any attempt to be controlled. So too in death are they given an infinite space based entirely around creating absolutely anything they want with whomever they want, co-operating with people who agree with them about what would be the coolest thing to make or do and having infinite space to stay out of the way of people who disagree too strongly to stay friendly.Acheron: The plane that inspired this list in the first place.
*Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) with Evil tendencies (Selfish instead of completely Destructive): those who care primarily about Security, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Power.
*Endless fields of battle fought by those who herded the desperate masses in life for personal benefit, building powerful institutions so that they could exploit the "resource" that is basic human life and labor.
This is not the "reward" of continuing a life of waging war for it's own sake, as those who care primarily about the destruction and violence over loyalty to a cause are probably going to Gehenna or the Gray Waste: they are not truly, Systematically Lawful as they did not want the conflict - however well structured and organized in of itself - to ultimately be made into anything, such as a tyranny where those on top will eventually not have to worry about conflict against rebellions.
Thus, favoring Systematic exploitation over pure Destruction, Acheron is for completely different people: those who had spent their lives working to build something incredibly useful to themselves, yet all but useless to those who served the machine out of desperation. Likewise, those commanding the armies of masters reduced to servants are actually winning personal glories from driving their armies to defeat the others, but they are so far removed in every way from the minions doing the fighting as to go completely unnoticed.
In life these industrialists cared for their legion of minions only enough to ensure that they themselves still had a system to support themselves. So too in death are they driven by remote commanding officers whose victories are meaningless to those who have become the minions, just as their own victories in life had been meaningless to their own minions. Pandemonium: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) with Evil tendencies (Selfish instead of completely Destructive): those who care primarily about Hedonism and Stimulation, secondarily about Self-direction and Achievement.
*A network of caves pulverized by gale-force winds eternally tossing and flinging those who had spent their lives consumed by - and drawing others into - the tempests of their own appetites for novel experiences and substances without wanting to work for anything not part of one of their "games." They did not bother to pay attention to those around them, even to spend the energy to hurt anyone, unless somebody could be drawn into their next "games" and persuaded to become equally thoughtless towards the future of the real world so as to have constant inflow of new "games."Evil Planes: Baator: *Lawful (Systematic instead of just Organized) Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish): those who care primarily about Security and Power, secondarily about Conformity, Tradition, and Achievement
*Where Mount Celestia serves as the backdrop for great, righteous civilizations at every level, the pits of Baator are delineated into the most cultured, bureaucratic tyrannies imaginable, with non-devils as second-class citizens and the souls of the damned as mere resources not even elevated to slaves. Where citizens of Mount Celestia work at each level to purify themselves of the flaws that had been holding them back in life, Baator has the devil castes exploiting/tormenting the damned in the level based systematically around whichever sin the mortal had primarily relished inflicting in life.
In life they convinced themselves that they belonged to a superior group: one for which all members were expected to watch each other for signs of weakness/betrayal and to handle personal disputes in secret - possibly exploiting the system but never allowing outside sources to appear or be treated as more important - so as to maintain the group's united front. They convinced themselves that this superior group - be it a racially-based crime syndicate or clique within an official aristocracy - could take whatever they wanted from the unworthy, inflict whatever cruelty they felt was "necessary" to keep their victims under control, and should be incredibly difficult for outsiders to become true members of. So too in death are they tormented by an even more efficient system where the new ruling class is even higher above the ones who are now victims and is even more difficult to join than was the one they themselves had established in life. Gehenna: *Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish) with Lawful tendencies (Organized instead of completely Systematic): those who care primarily about Power, secondarily about Security and Achievement
*Violently active volcanoes and not a single square foot of ground sloping less than 45º to be endured by those who gladly joined tyrannies and crime syndicates, believing not that the system had it's own right to exist but simply that climbing through the ranks would be the most effective way for them to take for themselves, believing that surely they wouldn't fail enough to be punished as severely as they were instructed to punish others, that surely they would be able to navigate a system that looks for even the most remote sign of weakness or betrayal to protect itself from with lethal efficiency.
In life, they chose to invest their time and energy not into a world where people build each other up to make the whole world better but into an environment that wanted to kill them if they were (sometimes very creatively) deemed "unreliable." So too in death are they are given a landscape of infinite mountains on which they need either to stay exactly where they are - for fear of losing grip and falling however long it takes to reach a lava flow - or to continue climbing, hoping falsely that being at the top would be any safer. In this world, they are completely dependent on each other to catch them from falling but know perfectly well that the others don't want to for fear of losing their own grip. Hades: *Neutral (Normal, Average) Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish): those who care primarily about Power and Achievement, secondarily about Hedonism and Security
*A vast emptiness that is commonly considered to be "pointless" compared to the better defined, more vibrant Planes. I'm going to take the view that the whole point of the Gray Waste is that the Gray Waste is incredibly pointless, that while there is a reason - however sickening - to be Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil, Neutral Evil is ultimately about not having a reason.
"But the point of Neutral Evil is that you care very much about advancing yourself by any means necessary, that sounds like a very effective reason." No, that is not Evil, that is Selfish. Selfish would certainly be on the eviler side of Neutral, but merely being selfish instead of actually evil only gets you sent to Acheron, Pandemonium or the Outlands, not the Infernal Realms like Hades. You don't qualify as Evil unless you are as spiteful and destructive about what you can't have as you are miserly about what you can.
If all you care about is making everybody else have less than yourself, no matter how you have to do it or how they got it, then there's not a reason anymore. If Neutral Evil is all about having more than someone else, and making them have less will be easier than making yourself have more, then in a world of billions and billions of those people tearing each other down for billions and billions of years, there's not going to be anything left for anybody.
This is not Chaotic, because they at least enjoy the conflict with those they can get away with attacking for being weaker. They still add something to themselves, however intangible, in the sense of how much fun they are having becoming legitimately stronger, rather than just appearing so through lowering the basis for comparison.
If one simply uses conflict and destruction as a tool without enjoying it for it's own sake, then they should at least be making sure that they actually get more for their efforts, instead of just making somebody else have even less; if one isn't going to make sure that they get more from the conflict then they had before, however much less somebody else is left with, than they had better have been enjoying the destruction itself to get at least something out of it, however little.
Pure Evil without true profit or pleasure - attempting to take and/or destroy as much as possible by alternately building what could eventually get in the way and disrupting what could've benefited them later - is ultimately pointless, and every single atom of Earth and Air and Fire and Water in the entire plane of the Gray Waste is molded from this fundamental pointlessness.Carceri: *Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish) with Chaotic tendencies (Independent instead of completely Disruptive): those who care primarily about Hedonism and Achievement, secondarily about Stimulation and Power
*The only plane in the universe that functions specifically as a prison, Carceri is used as containment for those neither personally reliable enough for the tyrannies of Gehenna and Baator nor inter-personally active enough for the orgies of Pandemonium and the Abyss, who took what they could when they could from whomever they could and didn't risk drawing attention to themselves for fear of being stopped by others who would become equally afraid of them.
In life they viewed the world around them as simply an obstacle to be avoided in order that they could hurt anybody anytime they wanted. So too in death are they kept in an infinite prison the way they pretended throughout their lives to be obstructed by already.Abyss: *Chaotic (Disruptive instead of just Independent) Evil (Destructive instead of just Selfish): care primarily about Hedonism, Stimulation, and Achievement, secondarily about Power and Self-direction
*Those who enjoyed both murdering dozens and scaring thousands with dramatic performances of anarchic violence - forcing the survivors to clean up the mess instead of having more time to build something new - are sent to a barbaric, tumultuous, frenetic nightmare world of not just a finite number of infinitely-sized sub-planes, but an infinite again number of them, none remotely stable or consistent for even the slightest amount of time except to be more cruel and torturous then any of the levels above them. If one does not know exactly how to get from one level to another specifically - and sometimes even then, considering the violent turbulence in the very fabric of this world - then they will never reach a level safer, as the finite number of levels above their current is absolutely meaningless in the face of the infinite number below.
In life they wanted only to swallow the world around them into their own sadistic temper and violence, rarely if ever slowing down, only pushing the boundaries of what they had already done and found boring through repetition. So too in death are they rapidly swallowed by the tortures of increasingly horrible monsters that can only get worse even if they somehow escape those previous.
Alignments involved:
Law-Chaos:Lawful: *Systematic; loves those who are stronger.
*Believes that very clear authority and efficient institutions is the best way to make society the way that it "should be," whether for Good or Evil, and that any problems with the system should be solved exclusively from within using the system's own procedures.Neutral (Lawful tendencies): *Organized; cares about those who are stronger more than most other do.
*Believes that efficient institutions are an extremely important tool, but not important in their own right.Neutral: *Average/normal; tolerates those who are stronger about as much as the next guy does.
*Supports "the system" about as much as the next guy; if he thinks that he can get away with breaking a rule that he deems unimportant enough, he might try it, but he generally tries to accommodate those in power about as much as anybody else does. Neutral (Chaotic tendencies): *Independent; doesn't care about those who are stronger.
*Believes that the authorities aren't any better than anybody else and doesn't go out of his way to support them, but generally tries to stay out of their way instead of challenging them outright unless they feel that isn't working, as it would still be viewed as letting the system win by fighting for permission to something instead of just doing it. Chaotic: *Disruptive; hates those who are stronger.
*Believes that any sufficiently formal and bureaucratic institutions just get in the way of those who are in the right, that they should be shown enough resistance that overstepping is not viewed as being worth the effort (even if the regulations right now are currently just inconvenient instead of intolerable, as authority used to being unchallenged could still cross the line in the future), and will probably only join loose, informal organizations drafted specifically so that the members can challenge the more rigid institutions to make sure that they never feel comfortable oversteppingGood-Evil Good: *Selfless: loves those who are weaker
*Devote themselves completely to making the world a better place for everybody, even at great personal costNeutral (Good tendencies): *Giving: cares more about those who are weaker than most others do
*Believes that society should build up as many people as effectively as possible, but are not giving enough of themselves (however much more than most), possibly by investing too much more time and energy in challenging potential evil than in building definitive good. Neutral: *Normal/average: tolerates those who are weaker about as much as the other guy does
*Believe that society's only duty is to ensure that enough people survive, and that it's on individuals and their personal connections whether or not they thrive (while they might certainly choose to give charity, they would not want to be told to) Neutral (Evil tendencies): *Selfish; doesn't care about those who are weaker
*Believe that they can take whatever they want as long as they aren't actively hurting anybody in the process Evil: *Destructive: hates those who are weaker
*Believe that they have the right to take anything that they can, hurt anybody that they "have to" in order to do so, and possibly destroy anything that they cannot