swift spell inside a spell which let you cast another spell together with a spell..

[ps377]

So, this is my question.

Can i cast a spell enhancer (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/spell-enhancer--3534/) inside an arcane fusion (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/arcane-fusion--890/)?

My thought was this: Arcane fusion (lvl5), having inside magic missile for lvl1 spell and spell enhancer for lvl4 spell which will let me cast another spell like maybe wings of flurry (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/wings-of-flurry--3101/) or (since spell enhancer will let me cast any other spell) maybe a lvl8 spell? (I thought about lvl8 spell just now.. Im sure i cant use this thought but its fine :p )

[Jack_Simth]

So, this is my question.

Can i cast a spell enhancer (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/spell-enhancer--3534/) inside an arcane fusion (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/arcane-fusion--890/)?

My thought was this: Arcane fusion (lvl5), having inside magic missile for lvl1 spell and spell enhancer for lvl4 spell which will let me cast another spell like maybe wings of flurry (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/wings-of-flurry--3101/) or (since spell enhancer will let me cast any other spell) maybe a lvl8 spell? (I thought about lvl8 spell just now.. Im sure i cant use this thought but its fine :p )
Spell enhancer doesn't let you cast any other spell. It gives benefits to the next spell you cast. So while yes, you can cast Spell Enhancer as part of an Arcane Fusion... it doesn't do what you appear to think it does.

[Jormengand]

So, this is my question.

Can i cast a spell enhancer (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/spell-enhancer--3534/) inside an arcane fusion (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/arcane-fusion--890/)?

My thought was this: Arcane fusion (lvl5), having inside magic missile for lvl1 spell and spell enhancer for lvl4 spell which will let me cast another spell like maybe wings of flurry (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/wings-of-flurry--3101/) or (since spell enhancer will let me cast any other spell) maybe a lvl8 spell? (I thought about lvl8 spell just now.. Im sure i cant use this thought but its fine :p )

Spell enhancer does not allow you to cast another spell. It means that the next spell that you cast is boosted.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Never mind.

[Soranar]

You're misreading spell enhancer

This spell enhances the next spell you cast

it doesn't let you cast another spell, it just boosts the next spell you cast

wow, double ninja ed

[ps377]

well, the description confused me ("You utter an ancient word tied to the fundamental principles of magic and immediately begin casting another spell") but asking others is good!

thx guys!

[Chronos]

The italicized portion of the description is just flavor text. What it does mechanically is described clearly.

[ps377]

The italicized portion of the description is just flavor text. What it does mechanically is described clearly.

i know but sometimes it clarifies the whole description..

[Arael666]

I am deeply sorry, but I had to do it.

http://i.qkme.me/3s4aun.jpg

[Arc_knight25]

Might be a far stretch, but maybe you can cast Spell Enhancer then Arcane Fusion and have the Spell Enchancer affect the 2 spells from Arcane Fusion, at least maybe the 1st spell that goes off drom Arcane Fusion.

I will admit its a stetch, ask your DM see if he'll let it fly.

[ps377]

Might be a far stretch, but maybe you can cast Spell Enhancer then Arcane Fusion and have the Spell Enchancer affect the 2 spells from Arcane Fusion, at least maybe the 1st spell that goes off drom Arcane Fusion.

I will admit its a stretch, ask your DM see if he'll let it fly.

i thought about it too, but some may say that my next spell will be Arcane fusion and not the other 2 spells, or since the spells are being cast at the same time, Spell enhancer will affect both..?

[Fouredged Sword]

I believe the trick is to get arcane fusion able to effect arcane fusion, allowing you to burn all your spell slots under that spell level as a single action.

I remember something about sanctum spell or something, getting the spell level of arcane fusion under it's own limit...

[Jack_Simth]

I believe the trick is to get arcane fusion able to effect arcane fusion, allowing you to burn all your spell slots under that spell level as a single action.

I remember something about sanctum spell or something, getting the spell level of arcane fusion under it's own limit...

Yep. A Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane), cast outside your Sanctum, counts as 1 level lower for all purposes. By default, (Greater) Arcane Fusion (Complete Mage) is a spell one level higher than the highest-level spell it lets you cast. So you can Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, ...)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Well, you get the idea. Eventually terminating with some other 4th level or lower spell, like, say, Another Magic Missile. Greater Arcane Fusion works the same way, except you're using a 4th level spell (Generally one of the Orb spells) in place of Magic Missle, and a Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion in place of the Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion.

[supermonkeyjoe]

The italicized portion of the description is just flavor text. What it does mechanically is described clearly.

I'd have a look at the Rouse spell in the Players handbook 2 if I were you :smallwink:

[Chronos]

Yup, as written, Rouse does nothing.

Of course, even if the editors had caught that and made it work as intended, it'd still do nothing that couldn't be replicated by yelling nonmagically.

[Uncle Pine]

Yep. A Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane), cast outside your Sanctum, counts as 1 level lower for all purposes. By default, (Greater) Arcane Fusion (Complete Mage) is a spell one level higher than the highest-level spell it lets you cast. So you can Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, ...)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Well, you get the idea. Eventually terminating with some other 4th level or lower spell, like, say, Another Magic Missile. Greater Arcane Fusion works the same way, except you're using a 4th level spell (Generally one of the Orb spells) in place of Magic Missle, and a Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion in place of the Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion.

Note that this trick won't work unless you are under the effect of Arcane Spellsurge: in fact Arcane Fusion can only combine two spells if their casting time is no longer than 1 standard action and applying Sanctum Spell (a metamagic feat) to Arcane Fusion increases its casting time to 1 full-round action.

[Svata]

Metamagic Specialist ACF or Rapid Metamagic Feat solves this pretty handily. Of course, the first is only 3+int mod per day, but still, not bad.

[ps377]

Yep. A Sanctum Spell (Complete Arcane), cast outside your Sanctum, counts as 1 level lower for all purposes. By default, (Greater) Arcane Fusion (Complete Mage) is a spell one level higher than the highest-level spell it lets you cast. So you can Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion (Magic Missile, ...)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Well, you get the idea. Eventually terminating with some other 4th level or lower spell, like, say, Another Magic Missile. Greater Arcane Fusion works the same way, except you're using a 4th level spell (Generally one of the Orb spells) in place of Magic Missle, and a Sanctum Spell Greater Arcane Fusion in place of the Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion.

First, lets see.. A sorcerer, who has much more spells than any other caster, at level 20, can cast 6 lvl5 spells, and lets say with 34 charisma he has a total of 8 lvl5 spells. Max 225 force damage to 5 targets (min 90 dmg and 157,5 dmg average, if there are 5 targets then: 45 max dmg to each, min 18 dmg to each and 31.5 average dmg to each one of them) and no more lvl5 spells for that day.. Great..
I would just use wings of flurry for max 120 dmg (CL20) to each of my enemies, minimum 6 dmg to each and an average of 47.25 (also calculated with reflex save with a 50% chance to avoid half dmg) to each one of my enemies around me. Oh, and i only use a lvl4 spell.. and if i wanted more i may get it maximized or enpowered.

Second, the effective level of a spell is not the actual level. So a sanctum arcane fusion spell will still be a lvl5 spell with the DC of a lvl4 spell.. If your DM thinks that the effective level is the same as the actual level, then thats good for you. And i know this has been discussed in other threads too but since people will always get the easier way to do something, most people will agree that an increase in the effective level is the same as an increase in the actual level.
Look, i would really really love it too if the effective level is the actual level (for using lvl5 spells into arcane fusion, to charge spell storing items with more spells, to qualify earlier for a prestige class), but thats the way it is.. (and im not a DM..)

[TuggyNE]

First, lets see.. A sorcerer, who has much more spells than any other caster, at level 20, can cast 6 lvl5 spells, and lets say with 34 charisma he has a total of 8 lvl5 spells. Max 225 force damage to 5 targets (min 90 dmg and 157,5 dmg average, if there are 5 targets then: 45 max dmg to each, min 18 dmg to each and 31.5 average dmg to each one of them) and no more lvl5 spells for that day.. Great..
I would just use wings of flurry for max 120 dmg (CL20) to each of my enemies, minimum 6 dmg to each and an average of 47.25 (also calculated with reflex save with a 50% chance to avoid half dmg) to each one of my enemies around me. Oh, and i only use a lvl4 spell.. and if i wanted more i may get it maximized or enpowered.

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of (greater) arcane fusion; it does not use up all those spell slots in the casting, it simply casts those spells. Since each spell level is worth about twice as much as the previous one, that's a decent deal normally, but with this craziness you get a whole lot of spells from a single slot.

(Also, Focused Specialists tend to have one more spell per day at the two highest spell levels than Sorcerers, as well as equal or greater spells per day at every other spell level, to say nothing of getting access to a new spell level a level earlier. Level 20, oddly, is I think the only time Sorcerers have an equal number of highest-level slots.)


Second, the effective level of a spell is not the actual level. So a sanctum arcane fusion spell will still be a lvl5 spell with the DC of a lvl4 spell.. If your DM thinks that the effective level is the same as the actual level, then thats good for you.

This would probably be better if you used the rules terms; effective spell level is not defined or used, to my knowledge.

[ps377]

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of (greater) arcane fusion

Yes, i forgot it! thx for pointing it out!