The Price is Right? - Magic Item Edition

[Yora]

If anyone else wants to use this thread for similar questions, you are very much invited to.

Here's the item I am just dealing with (Pathfinder in case this matters):

Winter Wolf Cloak
- Cold Resistance 10
- 2nd level spell at CL 5th, 3/day.

Cold Resistance is a 2nd level spell with a 10 minute/level at CL 3rd (resist energy), continous effect. So that would be 18,000 gp (2 * 3 * 2,000 gp * 1,5)?

Casting a 2nd level spell at CL 5th, 3/day would be 10,800 gp ([2 * 5 * 1,800] / [5/3])?

And since it's an item on the body, the less expensive one costs +50% for 16,200 gp?

So the final total would be 34,200 gp?

Really? You get a +3 frost cold iron greatsword for that.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Well, compare it to the 12,000 gp minor ring of energy resistance (for cold resistance 10 which is 50% more expensive than a +2 longsword). The reason energy resistance is expensive is that it lets you soften and ignore monsters' and mages' special attacks. Energy resistance 10 is not as generally useful as a +2 weapon, but it will let you trivialize some encounters.

Then the use of the second-level spell three times per day is pretty expensive too. Something like invisibility three times per day is extremely useful.

[Gildedragon]

One would have to ask: which spell? Is this like a supercharged pearl of power? The price seems somewhat off then because buying 3 level-2 pearls of power costs 12,000; and they are slotless already; making buying the ring of energy resistance and setting the three pearls on it cost 24,000

If it is a fixed spell things get tricker. If it is a cold descriptor spell one can treat them as related abilities; in which case the 3/day spell costs 75% not 150%.

Furthermore; take a cue off the ring of energy resistance; that is your base cost; not the calculated one.

[Humble Master]

I guess the point I would make is that using a 2nd level spell 3 times per day if fairly powerful. Replace Energy Resistance with something like Hold Person or Invisibility and suddenly the price does seem right. The problem is that magic item prices assume that all spells levels are created equal when in fact they are not. Color Spray is exponentially more useful than Ventriloquism but they, in magic item form, would cost the same.

[unseenmage]

If anyone else wants to use this thread for similar questions, you are very much invited to.

Don't mind if I do, thanx for the relevant thread.


Amulet of Humanization
Price (Item Level): 423,360gp (20th)
Body Slot: Neck
Caster Level: 14th
Aura: Strong; (DC 21), Transmutation
Activation: Continuous
Weight: --

A circular pendant with a embossed image of Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man only the man is replaced by a squat twisted homunculus and clockworks.

A Homunculus, and a Homunculus only, that wears this pendant can make a Knowledge (Arcana) check DC 12 to activate the amulet. Once activated the amulet allows the Homunculus to be treated as a living humanoid for up to two minutes. The wearer can dispel this effect as a free action at will.

Lore: Artificers generally create these amulets for their Dedicated Wrights so they may be affected by the spells Elation and Distill Joy thereby gaining the artificer additional crafting experience over time (Knowledge [Arcana] DC 25).

Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Humanoid Essence Greater (RoE 186), Knowledge Arcana DC 12

Cost to Create: 211,680gp, 105,840xp, 424 days to create (includes -10% price break for skill use to operate and -30% price break for race specific use)
Custom: Spellcraft DC 16; 6,000gp and 6 weeks to research

Edit: Changed the price etc to reflect that Humunculi cannot speak so no command word activation. Thanks Guigarci and tuggyne, nice catch.

[Rhynn]

And since it's an item on the body, the less expensive one costs +50% for 16,200 gp?

I think the Magic Item Compendium removed that increase for doubling up on slots (not something I really agreed with), but I guess PF has it?

[Gildedragon]

Rhyn: depending on what you double up on. Standard effects got the price increase dumped (fluffwise they are similar enough to the energy of the slot not to matter. And it adds the caveat of useful or interesting but not essential or always needed effects could be cut down either by or to 1/3. Afb so don't recall numbers fine.

@ unseenmage: getting 134,000 here. 4th level spell, 7th level caster, 2000 for perpetual duration, 40% discount, x4 price multiplier (measured in rounds), -1/3 for niche use drops it to 89,000
Using lesser humanoid essence drops the spell to 72k. (43 k with niche use)
Either way I don't see where you got your numbers
Edit: used humanoid essence for my calculations, not greater. Really got no clue where numbers are coming from.

[Yora]

It's command word, so the base price is 1,800gp, not 2,000gp.

[Gildedragon]

It's command word, so the base price is 1,800gp, not 2,000gp.

That's problematic. Homunculi explicitly can't speak, and have no ranks in UMD.

[TuggyNE]

That's problematic. Homunculi explicitly can't speak, and have no ranks in UMD.

Is there an exception in the Eberron books for Dedicated Wrights? Otherwise, yeah, that's not going to work so great. Just make it use-activated instead.

[Yora]

But isn't use activated automatic without performing any activation action? Cloaks of resistence and +1 weapons are use-activated or continous.

The key difference with command-word items is, that you have to take a standard action to activate them. Even if the humunculus were just standing still and concentrating without making a sound, using the price for command word would seem appropriate, since it's an action.

[Gildedragon]

Use activated items can also take a distinct standard action to activate. Command word isn't quite right for something like the necklace proposed, due to the intended effects of the necklace.
Regardless it is a somewhat funny item as there is no reason why the artificer couldn't just have both spells cast on themself.

That paired with the fact that all the spell needs to do is render the (willing) bearer susceptible to mind affecting effects, the cost might be subject to a 50% or more price reduction.

[unseenmage]

That's problematic. Homunculi explicitly can't speak, and have no ranks in UMD.

Is there an exception in the Eberron books for Dedicated Wrights? Otherwise, yeah, that's not going to work so great. Just make it use-activated instead.

Hm. My bad. I totally thought they could speak.
Use activated it is then. Thanx for the assist.

So long as no one minds here's another one. I'll include a line wth my math this time to ease confusions.

Crown of the Ancient Lord
Price (Item Level): 37,500gp (20th)
Body Slot: Head
Caster Level: 9th
Aura: Strong; (DC 21), Enchantment
Activation: Use-activated
Weight: 1 lb.

A grand jeweled crown, tall and overly ornate. Scenes depicting the rise and fall of a king are gilded onto it's surface in precious metals.

A character who wears this crown for 12 hours every day is considered to have the feats Leadership (DMG 106) and Landlord (SBG 10). A character must wear the crown for at least 12 hours before it will function for them the first time.

The crown makes the wearer's dreams of sovereignty real.
It brings a Cohort and Followers from the wearers own personal demiplane of dream in the Region of Dreams (MotP 201). These creatures are extraplanar natives and as such can be banished back to their home plane. For the purposes of the wearers leadership score as it is granted by this item they are considered killed. They survive however and can be regained after the appropriate amount of time has passed as detailed under the Leadership feat in the DMG.

The crown also brings material for the construction of a stronghold from the wearers dream realm as per the Landlord feat. Neither the crown nor the Landlord feat actually grant the wearer land or a finished stronghold. They merely help offset the cost by providing additional supplies.

A character who fails to wear the crown for the requisite amount of time loses access to the feats it grants.
Additionally, all creatures and building supplies granted by the crown return to their home plane in the middle of the next night.
A stronghold built with supplies granted by the crown is greatly damaged by loss of the crown as well usually becoming a ruin overnight. Each object, structure, magic item, construct creature, trap, piece of wondrous architecture, and 10 foot section of wall within the stronghold and on the same property grounds as the stronghold takes untyped damage that bypasses hardness. This damage reduces the hp of affected objects and creatures by half. Magic items and constructs can make a Will save DC 19 to ignore this effect.

Lore: Said to be the creation of an ancient mage-king, this crown changes hands more often than it should. Minor barons and warlords often seek the crown desiring to use it to attempt to overthrow their own rulers only to abandon such plans after taking on the responsibility of caring for the land and subjects granted by the crown (Knowledge [History] DC 25). Adventurers beware, many an adventurer has left the path of wealth and glory after obtaining the crown. They find all they ever wanted caring for the subjects and stronghold of their dreams (Knowledge [Arcana] DC 30).

Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Leadership feat (DMG 106), Landlord feat (SBG 10), and the spells Dream Travel (MotP 202) or Mirage Arcana, and Unseen Servant.

Cost to Create: 18,750gp, 9,375xp, 38 days to create
Custom: Spellcraft DC 15; 5,000gp and 5 weeks to research

- There's a sidebar in AaEG (page 128) that prices non-numerical feats in items at 10,000gp each and +5,000gp per prerequisite.
10,000gp+5,000gp x (10,000gp+5,000gp)x1.5 = MP: 37,500gp
- Based the creation info on the 9th level prerequisite of Landlord, 9th level character has access to 5th level spells so i calculated it as needing the equivalent of at least a 5th level spell.

Edit: cleaned up the description to specifically call out the extraplanar nature of the allies the crown grants and the effects of losing the crown. Also added some suggested spells to the prerequisites thanks to Guigarci.

[unseenmage]

Regardless it is a somewhat funny item as there is no reason why the artificer couldn't just have both spells cast on themself.

That paired with the fact that all the spell needs to do is render the (willing) bearer susceptible to mind affecting effects, the cost might be subject to a 50% or more price reduction.

It's also negating the "living" requirement in one of the spell descriptions as well. Something that even Greater Humanoid Essence can't technically do. Though I suppose Polymorph would do just as well as a component at that point since it could represent turning the Homunculus into a warforged (a living construct).

This is one of those items that doesn't exactly replicate the spell effect but gets close enough.

[Gildedragon]

So this one your ballpark seems a bit under. I would actually make this one a relic or artifact because it ain't the sort of thing that ought be copied.

You also picked notoriously difficult to price feats. How does one price an additional character that complements the PC?

In prereq ought to be mirage arcana or shadow landscape and shades, shadow conjuration or unseen servant

What happens to structures made by the crown? The land it is on? After all the bearer ought to be the legitimate owner of their keep.
...Yeah, gonna say that it's an artifact; it has really cool and interesting powers, and good fluff, but the power is wonky and has potent effects on the world. Compare to the Castle card in a deck of many things.
Don't worry too much about cost, and you have a fairly cool item there; with an effect like that of Elysium or the Gray Waste it can be a threatening item on its own right: it grants power and wealth but makes its bearer yearn for the security of their throne.
I might crib it, adding that the bearer falls under a sleep and astral projection or simulacrum spell; regardless of any immunity to sleep. I'd add also a timeless trait to the land generated by the crown and the result is a land ruled by a sleeper that walks.

[unseenmage]

So this one your ballpark seems a bit under. I would actually make this one a relic or artifact because it ain't the sort of thing that ought be copied.

You also picked notoriously difficult to price feats. How does one price an additional character that complements the PC?

In prereq ought to be mirage arcana or shadow landscape and shades, shadow conjuration or unseen servant

What happens to structures made by the crown? Lands granted by the landlord feat?
...Yeah, gonna say that it's an artifact; it has really cool and interesting powers, and good fluff, but the power is wonky and has potent effects on the world.
Don't worry too much about cost, and you have a fairly cool item there; with an effect like that of Elysium or the Gray Waste.

I agree that it shouldn't be copied. Relic sounds about right. And obviously I completely skipped the prerequisites line. (D'oh!)

Edit: Okay, I've read the creating new relics stuff three times now and i'm just not getting it. Anyone care to explain?