Anthromorphic Animals *Help*

[Dramatic Addict]

Hey guys, I'm looking for the stats for all/most of the anthromorphic animals from Savage Species. I'm making an Anthro- Baleen Whale Monk / Drunken Master, but I need the rest of the stats. If anyone could post the stats on here or post a link that'd help a bunch.

More info: Please don't link me to "D&D Wiki". I trust that site about as much as I trust Hitler. Thanks :smalltongue:

[MidgetMarine]

My tip?
Don't play a Baleen.
At least not without some LA.
Please.
It's obviously broken and unbalanced.
LA +0 for all that?
Absolutely insane.

[Uncle Pine]

Anthro-Baleen Whales are Large, get 3d8 RHD, +3 LA, +8 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Cos, +4 Wis and +9 natural AC. Are you using it just for flavour? Because it is a bad race in general, let alone for a Monk.

[Seer_of_Heart]

My tip?
Don't play a Baleen.
At least not without some LA.
Please.
It's obviously broken and unbalanced.
LA +0 for all that?
Absolutely insane.

Offhand not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure there are RHD that make this a worse deal.

[Dramatic Addict]

I'm not seeing where the Baleen Whale is such a bad race?? It's +0 LA, gets amazing stats, and my DM loves the idea I have for roleplaying it.

Also, do the Baleen get any Darkvision of any sort, or things of that nature?

[Uncle Pine]

You're right, Baleen gets +0 LA. I misread the table. Without the LA, it actually is a nice race.

[Lateral]

The one thing you should remember is that, though it lacks LA, it has three racial hit dice. They're Monstrous Humanoid hit dice, too, which aren't exactly great- it's like being an NPC Warrior with different saves.

[Dramatic Addict]

The one thing you should remember is that, though it lacks LA, it has three racial hit dice. They're Monstrous Humanoid hit dice, too, which aren't exactly great- it's like being an NPC Warrior with different saves.

I don't understand. I though RDH just added extra HD to your total from your class?

[nyjastul69]

I'm not seeing where the Baleen Whale is such a bad race?? It's +0 LA, gets amazing stats, and my DM loves the idea I have for roleplaying it.

Also, do the Baleen get any Darkvision of any sort, or things of that nature?

Baleen Whale has LA -, not LA+0. It is unsuitable for PC use in a 3.5 game.

[pyromanser244]

I don't understand. I though RDH just added extra HD to your total from your class?

racial HD are essentially class levels based on creature type. they give feats, skill points, BAB, and saves like any PC class would. the details on racial HD are given in the monster manual glossary. look for monstrous humanoid (all anthropomorphic animals are this type) and you'll have the details.

[Dramatic Addict]

Baleen Whale has LA -, not LA+0. It is unsuitable for PC use in a 3.5 game.

I think that's a matter for the DM to decide, and considering that he is not only allowing it, but enjoying that I'm doing it, I think it's fine. :P

[Dramatic Addict]

So, besides the initial base stat modifiers, can someone clue me in on lesser things that Anthro- Baleen Whales get? i.e: Dark/low-light vision, Skill points, bonuses/minuses to skills, ect.

[Lateral]

Baleen Whale has LA -, not LA+0. It is unsuitable for PC use in a 3.5 game.

He's talking about an Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale, from Savage Species. It has three racial hit dice and an LA of +0.

[Cheiromancer]

So, besides the initial base stat modifiers, can someone clue me in on lesser things that Anthro- Baleen Whales get? i.e: Dark/low-light vision, Skill points, bonuses/minuses to skills, ect.

All anthropomorphic animals get darkvision 60. Their RHD are that of Monstrous humanoids. 2+int skill points/level (x4 at first level). Skills as the base animal. Aquatic animals get +8 to swim and can take 10 on swim checks. Baleen whale gets a 30 move on land. It is large size. Hmmm. I think that's about it.

[Invader]

I feel like this is another case of rhd not counting towards ECL.

[nyjastul69]

He's talking about an Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale, from Savage Species. It has three racial hit dice and an LA of +0.

Mea Culpa. I assumed a D&D v3.5 context. I should not have assumed that. SS is a 3.0 product. The OP did not state what version of the rules were in use.

[Lateral]

I feel like this is another case of rhd not counting towards ECL.

What do you mean?

[Kuulvheysoon]

What do you mean?

I'm not sure, but he might mean like how you can replace a creature's HD if it's only got the one before taking class levels (like pixies, elves, etc...)

[Invader]

What do you mean?

I meant more along the lines of people forgetting that when you see a LA+0 with RHD you have to also add in the RHD into the ECL. Losing 3 class levels for the benefits of an anthro baleen whale isn't really that great.

[KillingAScarab]

About a month ago (so it's pages and pages back on this forum) I posted in another thread regarding anthropomorphic animals template, specifically regarding an anthropomorphic deinonychus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284204). This old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45462) says the template isn't very usable and points out a homebrewed alternative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37036). The thread for that, however, ends with a post to try to improve upon that version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3887534&postcount=59).

Under the template as written in the post by Threeshades, an anthropomorphic baleen whale would be LA +2 (+1 for Large size, +1 for natural armor greater than 2), would gain amphibious and retain its 120' blindsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#blindsightAndBlindsense) and hold breath and low-light vision qualities, and also retain its +4 racial bonus to spot and listen checks while blindsight is functional, its +8 racial bonus to swim checks when performing special actions or avoiding a hazard and have a 20' swim speed. Given that it's size was decreased twice from gargantuan down to large, the attribute calculation that post suggest gets +20 STR, +6 DEX and +8 CON, +0 INT, +2 WIS, -4 CHA which actually bumps the LA up by another 16 because the people who collaborated on that template must have never studied the Changes to Statistics by Size table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases) very much.

Instead of flat +2/-2 for Strength, Dexterity and Constitution depending upon which way you go, I would use that table to figure out if the gargantuan whale has a greater strength than a human with a 10 or 11 strength which was then made gargantuan, and in this case the gargantuan human's 34 strength is in the same category as the baleen whale's 35. Do the same with the other two physical attributes and you get +0 STR, +6 DEX, +0 CON, +0 INT, +2 WIS, -4 CHA which would only add 2 to the LA since the only attributes which weren't improved just by size increases were Dexterity and Wisdom, and they don't overshadow the Charisma penalty by much. Should probably add back in the size increase adjustments from medium to large according to the table, though.

So that's +4 LA and 6 Monstrous Humanoid hit dice (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#monstrousHumanoidType) for an ECL of 10. That didn't even directly account for how good it is to be able to ignore the effect of concealment on any corporeal creature from so far away at any time. Without any class levels, though, whatcha gonna be able to do other than alert the group or try to hit it hard with something other than your 1d4 tail slap? That advantage also goes away if an enemy spellcaster ever decides to cast silence on the big whale dude.

[Lateral]

I meant more along the lines of people forgetting that when you see a LA+0 with RHD you have to also add in the RHD into the ECL. Losing 3 class levels for the benefits of an anthro baleen whale isn't really that great.

Okay, yeah.

[Dramatic Addict]

All anthropomorphic animals get darkvision 60. Their RHD are that of Monstrous humanoids. 2+int skill points/level (x4 at first level). Skills as the base animal. Aquatic animals get +8 to swim and can take 10 on swim checks. Baleen whale gets a 30 move on land. It is large size. Hmmm. I think that's about it.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. :)

[Waddacku]

I meant more along the lines of people forgetting that when you see a LA+0 with RHD you have to also add in the RHD into the ECL. Losing 3 class levels for the benefits of an anthro baleen whale isn't really that great.

They're Monk levels. It's definitely worth it.