Rogue or Ranger for Dread Commando?

[Cozod]

I'm planning on making a dread commando for a campaign, starting lvl 11. I was thinking 2 fighter, 4 ranger or rogue, 5 commando. The party is fairly stealthy, but no front line fighter type.

My thought process is use mithral full plate and get acp down to zero, use fighting style for ranged, but feats for melee, get rid of the animal companion via acf.

Does this sound like a good plan? I know rogue would give more damage, but are there any other benefits?

Any other thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. Thanks!

Edit: was planning on taking elusive target to make use of the feat tax, flaws are allowed, animated.shield if I have the gold. Already have a rogue for traps.
Is it worth giving up clw wands if we have a healer? Sorry for the horrible sentence structure, I'm using my phone.

[Flickerdart]

Ranger does not gain the benefit of his combat styles in medium armour, which Mithral Full Plate is.

[Callin]

Mystic Ranger ACF with the Spell that gives sneak attack based on CL along with Practiced Spellcaster will net ya some ok Sneak Attack (albeit at the cost of a swift action and a spell) but will allow ya to keep your full BaB.

[Marnath]

I'm planning on making a dread commando for a campaign, starting lvl 11. I was thinking 2 fighter, 4 ranger or rogue, 5 commando. The party is fairly stealthy, but no front line fighter type.

My thought process is use mithral full plate and get acp down to zero, use fighting style for ranged, but feats for melee, get rid of the animal companion via acf.

Does this sound like a good plan? I know rogue would give more damage, but are there any other benefits?

Any other thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. Thanks!

You can't use ranger combat styles in anything more than light armor. Rogue might be better, possibly the feat rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) variant?

[BowStreetRunner]

Keep in mind that the Dread Commando's Armored Ease (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050407b&page=6) ability does nothing to overcome the restriction to light armor imposed on the Ranger's Combat Style (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm#combatStyle). So you may very well be better off with Rogue.

Edit: looks like I was both ninja'd and swordsage'd! :smallredface:

[Cozod]

Ranger does not gain the benefit of his combat styles in medium armour, which Mithral Full Plate is.

Huge oversight on my part. Thanks, I think there was an acf(strong arm?) To get power attack instead, need to find it.



Dragon 341, don't have it, but I'm guessing it carries the same restrictions.

[Coidzor]

Huge oversight on my part. Thanks, I think there was an acf(strong arm?) To get power attack instead, need to find it.


Dragon 341, don't have it, but I'm guessing it carries the same restrictions.

Strong arm is a combat style, and while I don't have the dragon mag in question either, I believe the restrictions are kept in place for that one. The one that gives power attack, improved sunder and... I can't even remember the third one offhand...

If you've got a Rogue already, I believe Distracting Attack ACF is going to make him love you if you go Ranger.

ACFs (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872054/Alternative_Class_Features_III?post_num=3#33842789 8), I recommend Arcane Hunter and either Distracting Attack or Urban Companion.

If you're dead set on not progressing Ranger, you may also consider trading out spellcasting.

[Kyberwulf]

Go with Mithral Breastplate. It counts as light armor.

[Flickerdart]

Go with Mithral Breastplate. It counts as light armor.
At one point of AC over Chain Shirt, you might as well not bother, and use the money on something else.

[Kyberwulf]

1 point is one point is one point. It matters.

[Azoth]

Might wanna try Ranger2/Rogue4/Dread Command5/Nightsong Enforcer9. 19 BAB, good saves, enough skill points to be a skill monkey, I think 5-6 SA dice +3 dice of sudden strike. I reccomend Mithral Chain Shirt and taking the Dread Commando ACF to allow 5% per class level concealment in natural terrain. Take the Rogue ACF Penetrating Strike to still do your precision damage against immune foes...well half of it anyway.

Not an optimizer's dream but a solid Guerilla Warrior type, who can go head to head in Mele when necessary...for a time.

[BowStreetRunner]

Dread Commando 5 nets you 3d6 sudden strike damage, a +5 competence bonus to initiative for allies within 30 ft, a reduction of up to 4 points of armor check penalty and a reduction in the penalties for hide and move silently while moving, all with full BAB and 6 skill points per level.

For a rogue, sudden strike is a downgrade compared to sneak attack damage, as it doesn't apply when flanking. For a ranger, the armor check penalty reduction doesn't help a great deal, as the ranger's combat style is still limited to only light armor, which rarely has a very high penalty to begin with. Every base class that has Hide and Move Silently as a class skill either has class abilities that don't work in medium or heavy armor, or has to sacrifice the progression of some class ability (casting, manifesting, etc.) to go into Dread Commando. You are more likely to start with a class like Fighter and either dip one of the stealthy base classes or pick up another prestige class to get the stealth skills. (Unless you are willing to take the skills cross-class and wait until after 9th level to go into DC.)

Maybe go human ranger at first level, taking Able Learner, then fighter for the next four levels, picking up Dodge and Mobility from your bonus feats. Put the rest of your feats into Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with a two-handed sword, Power Attack, and Staggering Strike.

[Flickerdart]

1 point is one point is one point. It matters.
It's cheaper to buy an amulet of +1 natural armour, if all you want is an extra point.

[Azoth]

Dread Commando 5 nets you 3d6 sudden strike damage, a +5 competence bonus to initiative for allies within 30 ft, a reduction of up to 4 points of armor check penalty and a reduction in the penalties for hide and move silently while moving, all with full BAB and 6 skill points per level.

For a rogue, sudden strike is a downgrade compared to sneak attack damage, as it doesn't apply when flanking. For a ranger, the armor check penalty reduction doesn't help a great deal, as the ranger's combat style is still limited to only light armor, which rarely has a very high penalty to begin with. Every base class that has Hide and Move Silently as a class skill either has class abilities that don't work in medium or heavy armor, or has to sacrifice the progression of some class ability (casting, manifesting, etc.) to go into Dread Commando. You are more likely to start with a class like Fighter and either dip one of the stealthy base classes or pick up another prestige class to get the stealth skills. (Unless you are willing to take the skills cross-class and wait until after 9th level to go into DC.)

Maybe go human ranger at first level, taking Able Learner, then fighter for the next four levels, picking up Dodge and Mobility from your bonus feats. Put the rest of your feats into Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with a two-handed sword, Power Attack, and Staggering Strike.

The build I suggested right above you keeps all the stealth skills as class skills the entire way, and only loses 1 BAB over 20 levels. It gets into DC at 7 instead of 6, but is far superior to fighter2 to gain entry. A human with 2 flaws at level 1 meets all the prereqs for both PRCs listed and still has a free feat. Nightsong Enforcer is also an excelent PRC to finish out a DC build with. Full BAB, D10 HD, 4+int skill points per level, a few decent abilities, continues to progress sneak attack, and requires one useful but not powerful feat that still helps getting off SS Improved Initiative.

[BowStreetRunner]

...the Dread Commando ACF to allow 5% per class level concealment in natural terrain....

Adaptations like this one from HoB p.106 aren't always allowed by every DM. The OP should check to see if this one is permitted. That having been said, a progression of concealment equal to 5% miss chance per class level in natural terrain would certainly be superior to Armored Ease in any of the builds that rely on light armor anyway.

[Arc_knight25]

I attempted making this build awhile back. If ToB is allowed Warblade is your best option for a base class hands down.

If not then I would try Barb or even Scout instead of rogue. Skirmish is nice and if you plan on being mobile then you'll be getting that skirmish damage.

A great feat to take is Guerilla Warrior from HoB. Move silent and Hide are still cross class skills but only cost 1 point as opposed to 2. Also another 1 point improvement to your ACP.

If you do go Scout your going to want to get that 40ft mvt so you can tumble and still get that Skirmish off.

I planned on making a dwarf so he could have the heaviest armour available to him, and just getting his Mvt up to 40ft so tumble was possible. My build still needed alot of honing since there was so many possibilities.