3.5 Crazy blade singer&dancer idea, could use some advice

[Petertje Segers]

Hey fellow playgrounders,

In a month or so ( summer vacation) I am going to play in a new campain.. one where my bro is DM, and I had some funky idea for a character..

I am planning to build a gish elf wizard/fighter wo will prestige in bladesinger(CM) AND blade dancer (OA) :smallbiggrin:, the idea is that he will be a magical fighter who bad-assly sings and dances his way though the whole adventure, I know bard would be viable to, but I want to play spells, not just fancy triks :smalltongue:. This seems like an excellent character idea, but I have no idea if his is a workable/ viable/ fun build.

I know that this build will be feat and skill expensive, but it seems to crazy/fun not to try it..

Hopefully you could spare the time and sanity to give me some advice on how to build this character

[Gwendol]

The feat requirements alone makes this very hard to pull off:
Combat Casting, Combat expertise, dodge, weapon focus, mobility, spring attack

You more or less must take fighter levels to make it happen. Also, looking at the list of required feats... yikes! A lot of planning to make something that may not be that much fun to play in the end.

Go bard instead, you get casting, singing, and fighting all in one shiny package. Put your perform skills in singing and dancing...

[Waker]

As a forewarning you will most likely see a barrage of posts going on to tell you how Bladesinger is a terrible class (I have no idea about Blade Dancer). That being said, here are some suggestions to consider putting into your build. Also bear in mind that since I can't look at the Blade Dancer, I can't comment on what it brings to the table.
You probably shouldn't use more than one level of Fighter. While the extra levels to grab feats may be tempting, you are losing out on caster levels.
Taking a few levels of Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) might make the transition easier since it has a lower BAB requirement. Sadly it does require Mobility. You can meet the requirements with Fighter 1/Wizard 5.
Abjurant Champion from Complete Mage also bears mentioning as it is one of the more favored PrCs, having light requirements. Also as it shares the same required feat, Combat Casting.

[Petertje Segers]

hmmzz.. good points.. I could go for Bard.. it is just that the Bard spell list is just not my thing. It seems so secondary and supporting ( I suck at being a supportive cha).. while I would like to use my magic more directly, albeit it in combat or utility.
But in the end the whole point of the character is the crazy singing and dancing aproach to pretty much anything, sounds much like a bard..

and indeed the feat/skill requirements are a lot :smalleek:.. enough to make Bard more apealing..

But why is the blade singer terrible??
And the abjurant champion is cool, pretty,shiny and stuff it does not have the "feel" I want about it.. it is more a serious battle mage bend on defense.. seems not the kind of crazy I am trying to build.

[MirddinEmris]

There was, comparatively recently, an optimisation challenge in Iron Chief on a Bladesinger, you could browse the builds for some ideas. Also, look at the Bladesinger from Races of Faerun, mostly the same PrC, but better in many ways

[Waker]

But why is the blade singer terrible??
And the abjurant champion is cool, pretty,shiny and stuff it does not have the "feel" I want about it.. it is more a serious battle mage bend on defense.. seems not the kind of crazy I am trying to build.

It requires a lot of crap feats, loses 5 levels of spellcasting and granting very little. Frankly the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) can do a better job of being a Gish than Bladesinger.
As for the Abjurant Champion, while it does not explicitly boost offensive options, it doesn't hinder you any. Solid BAB, no lost caster levels, better HD, fewer levels to invest in, not to mention that being able to throw off quickened and extended spells is quite nice.

[Gwendol]

I think part of the verdict are the requirements to get into the class. Also, the class abilities aren't that great...

You could go into Sublime Chord to get a more versatile bard spellcaster.

[Petertje Segers]

hmmzz... I have looked at the bladsinger in races of Faerun (wich makes sense actually since my campain is set in the swordcoast).. and this is clearly a better prestige class (for my idea at least).. It gets its own spell list.. Going that way does make Bard a better option ( but gives makes spellcasting mad).. but still the requirements for bladesinger are a pain..

[Vaz]

A Duskblade 13/Kung Fu Genius Monk 2 gets all the abilities of a Bladesinger without the Feats, and do it better. You then have 5 levels to play around with.

As a competitor in that Iron Chef, I cannot advise enough to avoid that class.

[Petertje Segers]

still if a Duskblade 13/Kung Fu Genius Monk 2, is clearly better.. it does not have the same "feel" as wath I am looking for.. it looks more like a straight up mystic bruce lee with magical fists :smallwink:

And seemingly I can't go full bard for Bladesinger (Races of Faerun) before lvl 12.. would it hurt the bard to multiclass with fighter?

[Norin]

You could go into Sublime Chord to get a more versatile bard spellcaster.

This!

Bard into Sublime chord into some gish prc (abj champ, eldritch knight, etc?) that advances sublime chord casting.

And look into snowflake wardance (+cha to hit) combined with TWF and Dragonfire Inspiration. Also Lingering song.

Focus on cha and dex, use finessable weapons.

Then you dance and sing a bit, and grant yourself (and the rest of your party) + xd6 fire damage, pull out your two weapons and tear things apart (with dex and cha to hit, and a nice handfull of d6 in fire bonus to damage) while dancing and all that.

Now that was a rather rough idea of how you could do it, and it looks like fun times if you ask me. :smallbiggrin:

(Could be a bit feat starved to pull it off though...)

[MirddinEmris]

Try Duskblade for requirements, two levels will get you Combat Casting, arcane spells without BAB loss, which will make taking PrC after 5 levels possible, also two levels of a fighter is a no-brainer with such requirements.

Possible combos with feats, that you will take as prereqs: Dodge+Mobility = you can take Elusive Target (CW) which will really fit th style of a bladesinger, Combat Reflexes (bonus feat from the class) + Robillar Gambit = win if you max out Dex and Int (high AC and many attacks against opponent who attacks you), and for really dedicated bladesingers there is a Spring Attack + Bounding Assault (PHB II) + Rapid Blitz (PHB II) = make three attacks while moving (ask your DM if Song of Fury and haste will apply to this). Take all three feat chains (possible by level 18) and 5 levels af Abjurant Champion on top of this and call yourself Flash (of Fourth Hokage, if that's your thing), instantly moving from one point to another, untouchable and punishing the opponents for attacking you.

[Waker]

How about you tell us exactly what it is that you want to do? Forget all about classes, skills and spells. When you picture your character what do you see, how does he solve his problems and so on? If we know what you want, we can suggest your options for you.

[GeekGirl]

hmmzz.. good points.. I could go for Bard.. it is just that the Bard spell list is just not my thing. It seems so secondary and supporting ( I suck at being a supportive cha).. while I would like to use my magic more directly, albeit it in combat or utility.
But in the end the whole point of the character is the crazy singing and dancing aproach to pretty much anything, sounds much like a bard..

and indeed the feat/skill requirements are a lot :smalleek:.. enough to make Bard more apealing..

But why is the blade singer terrible??
And the abjurant champion is cool, pretty,shiny and stuff it does not have the "feel" I want about it.. it is more a serious battle mage bend on defense.. seems not the kind of crazy I am trying to build.

You could try the Prestigious Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) variant. Full wizard/sorcerer list what the fun bard flavor.

[Petertje Segers]

well answering Waker..what I want to do with my cha is to be a flashy fighter that uses magics ( I know that not easy).. that pretty much gets his flashyness from his crazy singing and dancing, not only in combat but in interaction with non-violent situations..the main point of the cha is that it fun to play goofbal..

and snowflake wardance sounds cool.. but that would make the prestigeclass very difficult to enter..or I just forgo that idea ( suggestet by waker)

and yes.. sublime chord is awesome..

[Waker]

Honestly it sounds like Bard is a better option for your concept. Look at Sublime Chord and Lyrical Thamauturge to increase your spellcasting options. Virtuoso gives you more performance options. Abjurant Champion and the Swiftblade I linked earlier both work for the bard as well. Certain classes offer good dips to expand on your options. Since you don't seem to want to do buffing, I'll forgo the Song of the White Raven recommendation, but you might consider a level of Spellthief and take the Master Spellthief feat. Stealing spells is quite handy.

[Kuulvheysoon]

If you still want to retain some of that Bladesinger flavour, a former member of the forums homebrewed a series of Elven Bladesinger substitution levels for the Duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179198).

They're based on Taegan Nightwing, from the series Year of Rogue Dragons.

[Phelix-Mu]

If you still want to retain some of that Bladesinger flavour, a former member of the forums homebrewed a series of Elven Bladesinger substitution levels for the Duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179198).

They're based on Taegan Nightwing, from the series Year of Rogue Dragons.

Sounds like win to me. *browses*

:smallbiggrin:

[Norin]

Taegan Nightwing Nightwind

:smallwink:

Also, I love that Bladesinger Duskblade mash up there.

[Kuulvheysoon]

:smallwink:

Also, I love that Bladesinger Duskblade mash up there.

Damn. It's been a couple of years since I read that trilogy, and I wasn't quite sure of his name.