The Temple and True Seeing

[sims796]

I have a question regarding Girard and True Seeing. Now, at the height of the temple's power, it was swarming with tons of powerful illusions, and those runes (were) effective last ditch traps. Based on Mirak's comment, it seems that only Nale was the only one effected, leading me to believe that Tarquin was able to escape the trap because of his Ring of True Seeing (it may not be because of that exactly, that's only an inquiry based off of limited information).

So, question. Would there be ways for Girard to fool that spell/ability? If even at the height of the temple's power, with everyone still alive, would they be able to take care of that power? And what about undead? Would they have a plan for that as well?

[KillianHawkeye]

I have a question regarding Girard and True Seeing. Now, at the height of the temple's power, it was swarming with tons of powerful illusions, and those runes (were) effective last ditch traps. Based on Mirak's comment, it seems that only Nale was the only one effected, leading me to believe that Tarquin was able to escape the trap because of his Ring of True Seeing (it may not be because of that exactly, that's only an inquiry based off of limited information).

So, question. Would there be ways for Girard to fool that spell/ability? If even at the height of the temple's power, with everyone still alive, would they be able to take care of that power? And what about undead? Would they have a plan for that as well?

I believe Epic magic can beat true seeing. An undead's immunity to mind-affecting effects is another matter requiring a different plan.

My guess is that Tarquin wasn't affected by the illusion trap because he already has all his greatest desires. Or else he's just SO genre-savvy that he was able to break out of it very quickly. :smallamused:

[Gift Jeraff]

Tarquin is not there. He is scheming something at the entrance of the pyramid with Kilkil.

[Mytallest]

I was worried about Tarquin seeing through their wall, then I remembered that he wasn't there.

On another note, I don't think his ring will protect against Phantasms.

[Deliverance]

I have a question regarding Girard and True Seeing. Now, at the height of the temple's power, it was swarming with tons of powerful illusions, and those runes (were) effective last ditch traps.

I must question your assumptions that leads you to conclude that the runes are last ditch traps.

This is what we know:
The rift gate is somewhere in the windy canyon.
The gate was protected by Girard, an illusionist favouring deception and misdirection.
The rift lay "between Girard's buttcheeks", which is obscure, but can refer to any number of things - the most obvious ones being a geographical feature or a statue of Girard, but anything else named and known as Girard's buttcheeks as an inside joke by his family would work.
There is a pyramid in the windy canyon, protected by illusions, which was the home of Girard's extended family for some time unspecified.
The pyramid has several paths guarded by mundane and magical traps that lead to the same central room, that appears trapped.

Given this, it seems unlikely to me that what we've been seeing until now are "last ditch traps" to protect the gate at the centre of the pyramid, and rather more likely that they are traps protecting the way to a central master trap exploiting the way people think, "this is heavily protected so it must lead to the goal", with the actual gate protected as much by its lack of anything obvious leading to it and the big red arrow pointing to the pyramid as the only manufactured structured in the canyon as anything else.

In this line of thinking, the "boss illusion" that the OOTS and LG got snagged in was in fact no such thing - rather it is an illusion that is supposed to stop the weakwilled while supporting those strong of mind in the idea that they've done something difficult and must be approaching their goal.

[Chronos]

The rift lay "between Girard's buttcheeks", which is obscure, but can refer to any number of things - the most obvious ones being a geographical feature or a statue of Girard, but anything else named and known as Girard's buttcheeks as an inside joke by his family would work.
Or, far more likely, the dead Draketooth was using the exact literal meaning of "Girard's buttcheeks", but a different meaning of "rift".

[Mytallest]

Given this, it seems unlikely to me that what we've been seeing until now are "last ditch traps" to protect the gate at the centre of the pyramid, and rather more likely that they are traps protecting the way to a central master trap exploiting the way people think, "this is heavily protected so it must lead to the goal", with the actual gate protected as much by its lack of anything obvious leading to it and the big red arrow pointing to the pyramid as the only manufactured structured in the
In this line of thinking, the "boss illusion" that the OOTS and LG got snagged in was in fact no such thing - rather it is an illusion that is supposed to stop the weakwilled while supporting those strong of mind in the idea that they've done something difficult and must be approaching their goal.

Actually, I think it stops everyone without a saving throw, but the weakwilled are less likely to get out on their own. Bards have a higher Will than Fighters, Rogues, or Rangers, so it makes sense that he'd be the first to catch on. Th reason it didn't stop Durkon and Malack was because Undead are immune.

[R. Malcovitch]

Keep in mind, Tarquin isn't here and neither is Kilkil. They left, leaving Nale alone with the vampires and Z.

[jere7my]

The rift lay "between Girard's buttcheeks", which is obscure, but can refer to any number of things - the most obvious ones being a geographical feature or a statue of Girard, but anything else named and known as Girard's buttcheeks as an inside joke by his family would work.

"Where does Napoleon keep his armies? In his sleevies!"

"Where is Girard's rift? Between his buttcheeks!"

Both jokes depend on an intentionally wrong interpretation of a word with multiple meanings. An army can be a force of soldiers, or it can be a cutesy name for the thing attached to your shoulder. A rift can be a tear in the fabric of reality, or it can be the cleft between two buttocks.

The joke is a joke. There doesn't actually have to be a location called "Girard's Buttcheeks" any more than there has to be a secret Napoleonic bunker called "Sleevies."

[KillianHawkeye]

My guess is that Tarquin wasn't affected by the illusion trap because he already has all his greatest desires. Or else he's just SO genre-savvy that he was able to break out of it very quickly. :smallamused:


Tarquin is not there. He is scheming something at the entrance of the pyramid with Kilkil.

Aha, of course I have overlooked Option C and forgotten that Tarquin is not even there! :facepalm:

[sims796]

Well, let's assume that this is the final defense for the rift. It's possible that there is another line of defense, and that this is indeed a diversion, but we can only work with what we've got, and it is reasonable to consider this the house of the rift based on what information that was presented.

As for Tarquin, I didn't realize he stayed behind, I thought he was just off panel at the time. Either way, had this dungeon been at full power, he wouldn't be saved due to his ring, so thanks for that.

[KillianHawkeye]

Either way, had this dungeon been at full power, he wouldn't be saved due to his ring, so thanks for that.

Well true seeing would be a HUGE help with any of the standard illusion spells. It's really only anything setup by Girard himself (such as the most recent illusion trap, presumably) that is likely to bypass Tarquin's ring.

[Studoku]

My favourite way to deal with True Seeing is Invisible Obscuring Mist.

[137beth]

I believe Epic magic can beat true seeing. An undead's immunity to mind-affecting effects is another matter requiring a different plan.
Epic magic can also be crafted to bypass immunities.

[veti]

My favourite way to deal with True Seeing is Invisible Obscuring Mist.

You are Girard Draketooth and I claim my $5.

[Toy Killer]

Am I the only one that noticed a parallel between "Between Girards Butt Cheeks" and "Windy Canyon"?

I chalked it up to author skills before, but now I'm curious if there is a deliberate reason behind it.

[Snails]

The joke is a joke. There doesn't actually have to be a location called "Girard's Buttcheeks" any more than there has to be a secret Napoleonic bunker called "Sleevies."

The clan had sufficient time on their hands to figure out the one thousand most likely Speak With Dead questions, and cook up smart ass alternative interpretations.

By the letter of the law, this is all perfectly legal, and a nearly perfect defense against a potentially powerful spell.

[DaggerPen]

My favourite way to deal with True Seeing is Invisible Obscuring Mist.

... that's fantastic.

[sims796]

I must question your assumptions that leads you to conclude that the runes are last ditch traps.

This is what we know:
The rift gate is somewhere in the windy canyon.
The gate was protected by Girard, an illusionist favouring deception and misdirection.
The rift lay "between Girard's buttcheeks", which is obscure, but can refer to any number of things - the most obvious ones being a geographical feature or a statue of Girard, but anything else named and known as Girard's buttcheeks as an inside joke by his family would work.
There is a pyramid in the windy canyon, protected by illusions, which was the home of Girard's extended family for some time unspecified.
The pyramid has several paths guarded by mundane and magical traps that lead to the same central room, that appears trapped.

Given this, it seems unlikely to me that what we've been seeing until now are "last ditch traps" to protect the gate at the centre of the pyramid, and rather more likely that they are traps protecting the way to a central master trap exploiting the way people think, "this is heavily protected so it must lead to the goal", with the actual gate protected as much by its lack of anything obvious leading to it and the big red arrow pointing to the pyramid as the only manufactured structured in the canyon as anything else.

In this line of thinking, the "boss illusion" that the OOTS and LG got snagged in was in fact no such thing - rather it is an illusion that is supposed to stop the weakwilled while supporting those strong of mind in the idea that they've done something difficult and must be approaching their goal.

Props to this guy, he was close!