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Xuldarinar
2013-06-11, 02:07 AM
Inspired by talk of improvised weapons, I think its time there are rules for what objects do what damage, beyond what is stated in the Player's handbook. Also, feat time.

Improvised Weapon Proficiency
Benefit: You make attack rolls with improvised weapons without penalty
Normal: A character who uses an improvised weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls
Special: Fighters can be taken multiple times. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new object. A fighter may select this feat as a bonus feat. If taken at 1st level, a character may exchange all of their weapon proficiencies with proficiencies with an equivalent number of objects. If they are able to use all martial weapons, they may exchange that with proficiency with all improvised weapons.



Table 1-1: Improvised Weapons
{table=head] Improvised Weapons|Damage|Critical|Range Increment|Type
One-handed melee weapons
Bottle|1d6|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Bottle, broken|1d4|19-20/x2|-|Piercing or Slashing
Brick|1d4|x2|10 ft|Bludgeoning
Fish, One-Handed (1)|1d4|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Two-handed melee weapons
Armor, Light(2)|1d4|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Armor, Medium(2)|1d6|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Armor, Heavy(2)|1d8|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Chair|1d6|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Fish, Two-Handed (1)|1d6|x2|-|Bludgeoning
Table|1d8|x2|-|Bludgeoning [/table]
For more items added, request them. If you disagree something in the table, let me know and I may adjust.
Note: (1) Weights may very from individual object to object
Note: (2) Fish with spines or similar features may be used to deal slashing or piercing damage, appropriate to the trait of the fish.
Note: (3) Armor with armor spikes still may use the spikes to deal damage as well when swinging the armor. Simply add the damage values. For instance, hitting someone with spiked plate mail would deal 1d8 Bludgeoning + 1d6 Piercing.



Alternatively, since there are official rules for improvised weapons (Complete Warrior), You can use those along with the feat.

Redi
2013-06-11, 11:16 AM
This can make sense fluff wise, but balance wise, it cost a feat (and eventually proficiency with martial weapon), to gain proficency in a subpar weapon, it kinda lack the special thing that makes you want to actually use it.

You could add a list of "improvisation" , requiring a special type of improvised weapon and an ability score or skill rank to use, to make this more interesting.

Also, i don't think case by case is a good idea. Guidelines to make any object a weapon would be better, depending on Size/Shape/Weight, but well, it's your homebrew.

eftexar
2013-06-11, 02:13 PM
I think this could become something cool, but right now doesn't achieve much worthwhile. Why not allow people to take proficiency with specific improvised weapons, like the Martial Weapon Prof. feat, to gain special benefits?

For example maybe a bottle does half as much damage again on the next round from embedded shards of glass or can be used to create difficult terrain splash weapon style. Or the fish can cause nausea if it hits. This could even be a new set of tactical feats with multiple options for the chosen weapon.

Pesimismrocks
2013-06-11, 06:09 PM
It looks like a really interesting idea. I like improvise weapons and not every class can get drunken master levels. I think a table of additional abilities to select from depending on weapon.
Feat chains are also a good idea

inuyasha
2013-06-11, 07:43 PM
1. these need prices :D these are awesome!
2. what about throwing foods? like chicken, and small containers of still hot bacon grease?

Yitzi
2013-06-11, 08:35 PM
No matter how many entries in your table, you'll never manage to cover everything that someone might decide to use as a weapon.

Although if you are going to make a table anyway, frying pans should definitely be on there.

Fizban
2013-06-11, 10:28 PM
Nothing wrong with making your own table, but Complete Warrior has the expanded improvised weapon rules in the very back. It's based on weight, heavier dealing more damage, with sharp objects counting as twice their weight and soft as half and nonlethal, with weight limits for light/one handed/two handed use. Aside from people making uranium spheres for hulking hurler builds I'm pretty sure it should cover everything without any problems. As for proficiency, usually people make it one feat to just remove the whole penalty, or knock it down to a -2, and I can't say I'd ever waste a feat on proficiency with just one type of improvised weapon. Only having one proficiency means you have to make sure that item is at hand, and if you have that much control then why do you need an improvised weapon in the first place?

Xuldarinar
2013-06-12, 02:24 AM
Nothing wrong with making your own table, but Complete Warrior has the expanded improvised weapon rules in the very back. It's based on weight, heavier dealing more damage, with sharp objects counting as twice their weight and soft as half and nonlethal, with weight limits for light/one handed/two handed use. Aside from people making uranium spheres for hulking hurler builds I'm pretty sure it should cover everything without any problems. As for proficiency, usually people make it one feat to just remove the whole penalty, or knock it down to a -2, and I can't say I'd ever waste a feat on proficiency with just one type of improvised weapon. Only having one proficiency means you have to make sure that item is at hand, and if you have that much control then why do you need an improvised weapon in the first place?

I never realized there was rules for that beyond the mention in the PHB. Looking at the book now, I see no reason for this.

Fizban
2013-06-12, 04:45 AM
Complete Warrior isn't OGC, so you probably shouldn't post the whole table like that, just to be on the safe side of how much information.

Hanuman
2013-06-12, 05:06 AM
In terms of dealing with advancement of damage above 1d4, this should probably be handled by the similarities to a weapon rather their actual mass. Chairs and armors are awkward and a weapons even slight awkwardness is going to heavily impact it's ability to damage a creature.

Chairs should definitely not be 1d6, bottles should only be 1d6 when full.

Fish and tables should not be 1d6+ unless you are using it as a thrown weapon (or an oversized weapon for die advancement), in which case you'd use Complete Warrior's thrown weapon chart. That would have to be a mighty big fish.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879

Also, drunken master PrC adds the monk's unarmed strike damage onto improvised weapon damage.

GlorinSteampike
2013-06-12, 05:45 AM
For everyone saying this is a subpar feat, this feat is amazing! This makes it almost impossible to truly disarm you. If you ever have to go somewhere where you're not allowed to take weapons, and you're not a monk this is great. You can bluff tons of people into thinking you're at a disadvantage when in reality a chair is lethal in your hands. Also, bar fighting is now too legit.

Hanuman
2013-06-12, 09:13 PM
Improvised Weapon Mimicry [General/3.P]
Requires: +3 BAB

Whenever you use an improvised weapon that closely resembles an actual weapon you may treat it as if you were using the weapon it resembles.
The improvised weapon has the Fragile condition with a breaking range of between 1 and 1-5 (DM's discretion) and is one damage die advancement lower than it's base weapon.
Example, a full bottle would deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage, if you had simple weapon proficiency you would also be proficient with bottles. Upon breaking a bottle could then be considered similar to a dagger, dealing 1d3 piercing damage and due to your simple weapon proficiency you'd still be proficient.
This may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.


Improvised Weapon and Armor Mastery [General/3.P]
Requires +5 BAB

You may use objects around you to mimic a shield, armor and weapons with better proficiency.
When using improvised weapons or shields your damage die increases by one step.
By using objects that closely resemble armor or shield you may affix them to yourself or hold them for a bonus to AC equal to the resembled armor at a -2 penalty (minimum +1), or equal to the resembled shield with a -1 penalty (minimum +1). These objects have the fragile condition with a breaking range of between 20 and 15-20 (DM's discretion).
This may be selected as a fighter bonus feat.