I was wondering.

[Metahuman1]

If I wanted to make an object but indestructible and imposable to steal or loose, what would that take?

Assume all sources none campaign setting specific, and to make it interesting, let's assume my item is an Item Familiar and also my characters weapon.

I had through making it with Riverine would be a good place to start but I'm still trying to figure out how to be Disintegration and it's assorted other spells that are basically the same thing with a twist, how to beat Disjunction, and how to beat Rods of Cancellation and the Spear of Annihilation. And that still doesn't stop it being stolen/lost, which I'm eager to beat.

Note: I understand that if a DM really, really, really wants to take away the item familiar and weapon, that he'll just fiat stealing it/me loosing it/it getting broken into a cut scene or something of the sort. I just want to make it so that is absolutely his ONLY option and to be able to explain clearly WHY I know that it was his only option so that I can call him on it if he does.

[unseenmage]

There's a Dragon Magazine with Body Modifications in it that lets you store your item(s) in your body. That way the only way to take it away is to surgically remove it.

You could also make it a weapon with the Flying enhancement which also makes it into an animated object then use the psionic power Fusion with it so it truly becomes part of you.

[hydraa]

If I wanted to make an object but indestructible and imposable to steal or loose, what would that take?



Sovereign glue should prevent the item from being loose and bond it to itself to keep it from flapping about.

(or are you wanting to make this impossible to remove from its holder?)

Most items can be made "but indestructible" as making it indestructible is rather hard.

I think the question is better worded as
If I wanted to make an object both indestructible and impossible to steal or lose, what would that take?

Placing the item on a small plane where it is the only item allowed should make it indestructible and in safe keeping as nothing can enter to take it.

[AWiz_Abroad]

Substantive thoughts

It's pricey, but instant summons means never having to worry about it getting lost.

Riverine is a nice mundane material for your item. If it's a spell blade, you could probably key it to something that would knock down riverine (say disjunction).


I'm also a big fan of permancied shrink item to get it down to 1/16th size when I'm asleep. My wizard then puts his spellbook in a hollow tooth (I'm fairly certain I've seen WOTC stats for this item, but my googlefu is failing). even if you can't put it in a tooth, stitching it into the inside of your clothes when you aren't awake to defend it would probably be sufficient.

[Mutazoia]

If I wanted to make an object but indestructible and imposable to steal or loose, what would that take?

A GM who is either a total noob or really really likes you. LIKES you likes you. Want's to break out the baby oil and a game of twister likes you. Creating an item like that should be the sole realm of the GM..things like that tend to break games very quickly and throw a very huge Galactis sized monkey wrench into plots.


let's assume my item is an Item Familiar and also my characters weapon.

Speaking from experience....I actually had a GM give me something like this in a campaign once. It threw the balance of the game so out of whack that the other players were useless...even the "overpowered" caster was left in the dust. We all (my self included) decided it would be better if the thing went the way of the dodo. Besides intelligent weapons aren't supposed to be your happy little friend that you shove through some one's ribcage from time to time....they are supposed to be powerful artifacts that are rare and usually try to dominate the weilder.



I had through making it with Riverine would be a good place to start but I'm still trying to figure out how to be Disintegration and it's assorted other spells that are basically the same thing with a twist, how to beat Disjunction, and how to beat Rods of Cancellation and the Spear of Annihilation. And that still doesn't stop it being stolen/lost, which I'm eager to beat.

:smallyuk:


Note: I understand that if a DM really, really, really wants to take away the item familiar and weapon, that he'll just fiat stealing it/me loosing it/it getting broken into a cut scene or something of the sort. I just want to make it so that is absolutely his ONLY option and to be able to explain clearly WHY I know that it was his only option so that I can call him on it if he does.

IMHO if you pulled this in my game you would lose it the first second of the first session of the campaign. My advice: write yourself a story where the main character has this thing.

[Big Fau]

The Weapon Graft from the Fiend Folio/LoM works nicely. Renders it nearly impossible to destroy without also killing you (the weapon becomes both magical and nonmagical, allowing it to dodge Disjunction).

[Chronos]

The only sure way is to be the biggest, baddest mofo in the entire multiverse. Failing that, be one of the top handful, and befriend everyone who's bigger and badder than you.

[Medic!]

Rather than jumping through rule-hoops and obscure book-diving, wouldn't it just be easier to say "Hey DM, this thing is my Item Familiar, is this something you're ok with? What are your limits on what I can do with it to keep it from being sundered/stolen/uh-oh'd?"

[Slipperychicken]

The whole point of Item Familiar is that you're getting a boost in exchange for vulnerability and dependency, much like Sauron and his One Ring. Taking that away removes the balance.

If you don't want to be vulnerable, don't take Item Familiar.

Besides, when was the last time a PC's weapon was lost or destroyed anyway?

[sleepyphoenixx]

The focus item for the Kissed by the Ages spell from Dragon 354 becomes indestructible (except for divine intervention or major artifacts) and you can always tell where it is, making stealing it pointless.
The spell only works on rings, amulets or similar small items though.

[ArcturusV]

By the way, Awiz_Abroad, the book you were looking for was Complete Scoundrel I believe. It had a lot of "items" like that which you could get. Hollowed out books, shoeheel compartments, false tooth compartments, lead lined secret pockets to foil magical detection, etc.

But yeah. It's a game best not played to try to make anything proof against all but DM Fiat. Mostly because it's impossible. if your DM has the patience to do a little research, he is ALWAYS going to find a perfectly rules legal way to win. DnD is just a game where Offense trumps Defense. You can't defend against everything.

It's better just to take reasonable steps against reasonable actions. Like... using Bestow Curse (Possibly in conjuction with another spell if your DM gets to be a stickler) to put a curse on your weapon that does something like drains 1 (level, stat, etc) per day to the current owner of your weapon, if that owner is not you. Might be a powerful effect for a Curse (Depending on your DM, as Bestow Curse is usually the sort of spell needed as a pre-req for making similar cursed weapons), but it's a reasonable thing that a paranoid bugger might put on his personal sole weakness weapon, And would punish thieves enough that after the first guy ends up as some level drained corpse most would keep their hands off.

[Metahuman1]

Mutazoia: For the record, the character types I'm thinking of this for are melee. You know, those guys who get screwed trying to dump all there money into both weapons and defensive items and boosting items while the casters get spells to do all the above for free just for gaining levels?

Who have to find creative ways to keep 3-5 stats boosted high enough to be relevant while the casters need 2 sometimes not even that?

Yes, it's a powerful thing to have a weapon that can't be gotten rid of. If, however, it's just a level appropriate weapon that says level appropriate, that talks and cops me an attitude from time to time, and maybe if I wanted to push it let be buy off one or two points of LA form my race and or template, it's not that bad, it just means I'm better able to keep pace with the Wizard and the Druid.



Slippery Chicken: This is more to defend against noob/power tripping/story-line-at-all-and-any-cost GM's. If he's a noob, he thinks that cause the players handbook says Sundering is a valid tactic and that everything in that book is balanced, there's no issue making the oger lord use his ax to shatter my sword, cause the book said my barbarian was just as powerful as the natural spell druid with access to spell compendium and all the monster manuals, and that breaking a weapon was a good tactic, there's even a feat for it!

In the case of Story at all cost, he's not trying to screw me up even if he does or doesn't understand the balance problems of the game. He just thinks it tactically makes sense for a larger critter or even some similarly sized but trained opponents to try to get rid of your weapon. So he'll do it. But only if he thinks it fits the narrative. This is the easy one, cause if I'm facing death several times a day at least once a week, I can justify a certain level of paranoia and as a result otherwise insane pro cations.

And if it's the last one, he'll break it anyway. Or steal it anyway. But once he does, I know what kind of DM he is, and I can walk away form the game after that incident and explaining why I know what he did.



Everyone else: Ok, looking good so far. Riverine is sexy looking for this, does spell blade allow for being used to defend against more then one spell? Cause that could be used to fix a lot of the problem right there.

The curse trick could also be a way to go about this, or used in conjunction.

[unseenmage]

Also on the Flying enhancement and counting as an Animated Object, it would gain HD which means you can drop some Craft Contingent spells into it.

And as we know Craft Contingent spells are the Swiss army knife of what-if scenarios.

[Gildedragon]

Riverine spellblade (disintegrate) weapon
If you want a ring it is a riverine (disintegrate) poison ring or garrotte ring

Alternatively riverine flying gauntlet with two riverine spellblade rings

[Cirrylius]

Tie the item to a crazy poisonous snake. Cast Imprisonment.

[Vedhin]

Let's see...
Definitely start with Riverine, that really whittles down weaknesses.
Next I'd try to get some method of using the Spell Compendium spell Absorb Weapon; that should prevent theft during downtime. A Locked Gauntlet would be useful too, making it hard to deprive you of your weapon when it is in use. I'd get Spellblade for Disintergrate, any other targeted spells that can get through Riverine are unlikely to come up, and can indicate the DM trying to forcibly remove it. As for the Rod of Cancellation, your best option that I know of is to pump your item's Will save, and your touch AC. As for the Sphere, there isn't much you can do. It is an artifact, however, so it's DM fiat almost by definition.

[Metahuman1]

Let's see...
Definitely start with Riverine, that really whittles down weaknesses.
Next I'd try to get some method of using the Spell Compendium spell Absorb Weapon; that should prevent theft during downtime. A Locked Gauntlet would be useful too, making it hard to deprive you of your weapon when it is in use. I'd get Spellblade for Disintergrate and Disjunction, any other spells that can get through Riverine are unlikely to come up, and can indicate the DM trying to forcibly remove it. As for the Rod of Cancellation, your best option that I know of is to pump your item's Will save, and your touch AC. As for the Sphere, there isn't much you can do. It is an artifact, however, so it's DM fiat almost by definition.

Hmm, Is there perhaps a way to trigger an anti-magic field or a series of targeted Dispelling if one get's too close to the weapon with hostel intentions? The idea being to suppress the magic of the Rod/spear in question so that it can't do it's stuff?

[Vedhin]

Hmm, Is there perhaps a way to trigger an anti-magic field or a series of targeted Dispelling if one get's too close to the weapon with hostel intentions? The idea being to suppress the magic of the Rod/spear in question so that it can't do it's stuff?


Also on the Flying enhancement and counting as an Animated Object, it would gain HD which means you can drop some Craft Contingent spells into it.

And as we know Craft Contingent spells are the Swiss army knife of what-if scenarios.

Craft Contingent Spell, used as unseenmage explained, is probably the only way to do this. The spells to get would be:

Gate, triggering if a Sphere of Annhilation comes within X feet of the item, targeting the Sphere. You probably want multiple of these, but two or three should be plenty

And Disjunction or the targeted version of one of the Dispel Magic family, triggering if a Rod of Cancellation comes within X feet of the item, targeting the Rod. If you get multiple of these, make sure to word the trigger such that the spell only goes off on Rods that are not already suppressed/disjoined. (Note: be careful with Disjunction, your DM may rule that it affects you as well.)

Oh, and to provide more protection against theft, get Instant Summons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/instantSummons.htm#) on the item as well. You'll need some sort of custom magic item though. Then hide the sapphire elsewhere, preferably after using Gemjump from the Spell Compendium on the sapphire. That should let you get it back if it ever gets stolen, as you can teleport to the sapphire with Gemjump, then crush it to activate the Summons.

[Tokiko Mima]

Between creating a weapon out of aurorum material (BoED), having someone make you the target of instant summons, and a lesser weapon augment crystal of return (MIC), you should have most any but the unlikeliest of DM fiat situations covered.

If your weapon is sundered, use a full round action to reform it. If someone tries to disarm you, it's a move action to put the weapon back in your hand. If it's stolen it costs a lot more, but that's when you invoke instant summons if everything else fails. You also want to take some measures so it's harder to steal in general, since the instant summons method of retrieval is expensive. Also, sunder the weapon yourself as soon as you don't need to cast any more spells for the day. Hiding the broken shards is easier, and more difficult for a thief to steal.