How to make arrows recoverable?

[flamewolf393]

I have never understood why this works the way it does. Is this just another example of game balance vs. what really happens? Cause IRL properly made arrows are frequently recoverable. Sure its a little grisly having to pull them through a dead body, but still.

But anyway. As per the title, is there anyway to make arrows recoverable? Preferably with mundane methods/special materials. I am going into a survival situation where arrows may not be readily available, so I would like to at least have a couple of the anti-DR that can be reused.

[Hamste]

In what system?

[flamewolf393]

In what system?

...the system that this forum is about? 3rd.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You could maybe get away with making aurorum arrows. Aurorum being a special material from BoED that allows you to put a weapon made from it back together after it breaks.

[The Viscount]

I don't know that you can make most arrows return to you, other than using Raptor Arrows, which are a specific item. There's the 50% chance of recovery if you miss, of course, but as for getting back arrows that hit, Raptor Arrows might be it. It's likely so that people can't make 1 slaying arrow and then use it on everything.

[JusticeZero]

As I recall the arrows were made to come apart so that they would not be fired back at the original .

[Erik Vale]

You could import Durable (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-durable) arrows from pathfinder. More expensive but less overkill than raptor arrows.

[Invader]

...the system that this forum is about? 3rd.

3e/3.5e/PF/d20

d20 is a huge world my friend and this forum is for all of it. :smallwink:

[olentu]

You could maybe get away with making aurorum arrows. Aurorum being a special material from BoED that allows you to put a weapon made from it back together after it breaks.

Hmm, I am pretty sure that applies only if the item is sundered. I suppose I shall have to check.

Edit: Looks like the special material only works when the item has been sundered.

[Kansaschaser]

Arrows and bolts break when they strike the target. If the arrows or bolts had any magical enchantment on them, they lose the enchantment. However, you can recover the broken arrows and blots and have them repaired with the Mending or Make Whole spells. I know this is not mundane, but they are fairly low level spells.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I have never understood why this works the way it does. Is this just another example of game balance vs. what really happens? Cause IRL properly made arrows are frequently recoverable. Sure its a little grisly having to pull them through a dead body, but still.

But anyway. As per the title, is there anyway to make arrows recoverable? Preferably with mundane methods/special materials. I am going into a survival situation where arrows may not be readily available, so I would like to at least have a couple of the anti-DR that can be reused.

Your probably thinking modern carbon fiber arrows designed to kill animals and not medieval arrows designed to kill people. If you get shot with an arrow in real life that arrow needs to be removed. They didn't bother making the arrows recoverable because it made it harder to remove it from a survivor. Making recoverable arrows is also a bit harder using only medieval construction methods and materials

Strictly speaking the arrow head would usually recoverable from a body you could pull out the adamantine/silver/cold iron arrow heads and just replace the heads of your standard arrows with them.

[Alefiend]

I have never understood why this works the way it does. Is this just another example of game balance vs. what really happens? Cause IRL properly made arrows are frequently recoverable. Sure its a little grisly having to pull them through a dead body, but still.

"Real life" is a bad guideline to use. Today's arrows are manufactured or handcrafted from high quality materials produced to fairly rigid tolerances, and are expected to last a while. Despite this, arrows breaking or being damaged enough to be inaccurate is not an uncommon occurrence at the range or in the field.

Period arrows used for warfare were built for quantity, not quality. Furthermore, the arrowheads were not firmly affixed to the shaft. They were designed to have the arrowhead come off when used so that they couldn't be reused by archers on the other side. Hunting arrows were often a little more robust, but they wouldn't penetrate most armor.

That said, reusable arrows aren't necessarily game-breaking unless you;re talking about seriously enchanted ones. Talk to your GM about house-ruling a chance that arrows that hit survive well enough to be reused after a little Craft (Fletcher) work. Or decide that it's the arrowheads that are magical, and retain their magic—but you have to make new arrows for them.

[Gildedragon]

Having them cost 1/10 or 1/5 instead of 1/50 of standard magic item prices would be a good counter to making arrows reusable. Having the returning property work at the start of your next turn would be a good nerf too

[Gavinfoxx]

Some things to add to arrows:

Flight Arrow (Dragon Magazine #349)
Lenaer Wood Arrow (Dragon Annual 5)
Cold Iron Arrow (Dragon Magazine #349)
Hardwood Arrow (Dragon Magazine #330)
Serpentstongue Arrow (Races of the Wild)

Also, Darkwood is known as a very hard and light wood in the game, so it might count as Hardwood and Lenaer Wood, depending on your GM...

So Serpentstongue Cold Iron Hardwood Flight Arrows might work.. no need even to make them masterwork.

[flamewolf393]

Was talking about period arrows. Maybe not army ready mass-made arrows. But a skilled archer that made his own arrows for hunting both game and people? Properly made arrows are designed so they penetrate far enough that they can be pulled out the back side of the target for recovery. It was rare for them to actually break, though you might have to redo a fletching.

[Gildedragon]

And oftentimes reattach points. The shafts were probably often reused because of the relative time expenditure; esp when we deal with stone points

[JusticeZero]

Sure, but some reassembly was required. And the shaft still might not have survived. Being fired or of a war bow is hard on an arrow. The wood might not be able to be straightened well enough after the bow folds it.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Was talking about period arrows. Maybe not army ready mass-made arrows. But a skilled archer that made his own arrows for hunting both game and people? Properly made arrows are designed so they penetrate far enough that they can be pulled out the back side of the target for recovery. It was rare for them to actually break, though you might have to redo a fletching.

Again your talking modern arrows. For an arrow designed to kill another human being breaking inside there body is ideal. The arrow head would be recoverable but the wooden shaft is not likely to survive.

[Flickerdart]

Be a Soulbow, conjure infinite arrows with your mind.

[pyromanser244]

Again your talking modern arrows. For an arrow designed to kill another human being breaking inside there body is ideal. The arrow head would be recoverable but the wooden shaft is not likely to survive.

not necessarily. if the arrow hits and then breaks, then the arrow is ruined regardless of how much damage the target took. but if the arrow doesn't break then things change. a survivor probably can't assume he's got time to carefully extract the arrow, and may even break off the shaft himself. but if the hit kills then you don't need to mend broken arrows.

[Flickerdart]

not necessarily. if the arrow hits and then breaks, then the arrow is ruined regardless of how much damage the target took. but if the arrow doesn't break then things change. a survivor probably can't assume he's got time to carefully extract the arrow, and may even break off the shaft himself. but if the hit kills then you don't need to mend broken arrows.
Unless he then falls on the arrow and breaks the shaft on the ground, or it snaps from the impact (when a 30 Strength guy fires a thin sliver of wood into metal, chances are it won't hold up)...

[pyromanser244]

Unless he then falls on the arrow and breaks the shaft on the ground, or it snaps from the impact (when a 30 Strength guy fires a thin sliver of wood into metal, chances are it won't hold up)...

all fair permutations but that's not really my point. in short range skirmishes (most common D&D combat scenario) a guy hit by an arrow isn't going to have time remove an arrow intact, let alone fire it back. so for the (short) duration of a fight, the whole arrow is doing everything the disposable arrow is and it might just survive to be used again.

[John Campbell]

I just talked the DM into letting me consider the broken arrow to be the 1/3 cost raw materials for making a new arrow with Craft (bowmaking), and dropped a few ranks into the skill. I've quit bothering to even check if they break or not, just assuming that they do. Usually an hour or two's sufficient to replace the arrows I expended during the day, though my supply does still gradually dwindle because I don't always have the time or ability to recover my arrows. And sometimes I do things with them that completely destroys them, like shooting fire elementals with them. But I started out with 80 arrows, so even with the slow attrition, I still have 106 left.

(I've found some as treasure, and bought or made some special-purpose ones along the way.)

[Flickerdart]

Crafting more arrows works pretty well. Check out Peerless Archer, they get the ability to craft magic arrows (despite being not a casting class).

[Gavinfoxx]

You should really really really look up that Hardwood bit I mentioned. Hint hint.

[nyjastul69]

What are your resources, not books but gp's? What level are you? Depending on those parameters why not try to work out an efficient quiver(SRD) type solution. You'd still have to stock it though. Ask your DM to help you with an 'everstocking quiver' as a unique item maybe. It could restock it's supply based upon the enhancements/materials involved. Enhancement bonuses being more valued than material considerations of course.

[Sith_Happens]

What are your resources, not books but gp's? What level are you? Depending on those parameters why not try to work out an efficient quiver(SRD) type solution. You'd still have to stock it though. Ask your DM to help you with an 'everstocking quiver' as a unique item maybe. It could restock it's supply based upon the enhancements/materials involved. Enhancement bonuses being more valued than material considerations of course.

There's a quiver for 18000 gp in the Dragon Compendium that can produce unlimited regular, silver, or cold iron arrows, and three adamantine arrows per day.

[Fizban]

While we have carbon fiber, DnD has mithral, adamantine, and alchemy. I'd say a 100% recoverable non-magic arrow is perfectly doable if you really want it. Though the price would probably be enough that after considering shots that you don't want or have time to recover, I'd stick with cheap stuff and magic.

[Slipperychicken]

anti-DR that can be reused.

Hank's Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) has infinite shots. Since they're force effects, they don't give no ****s about DR or resistances. Unless you're fighting Force Dragons in a survival game, in which case you can congratulate yourself on playing the most awesome survival game ever, and get some other arrows which work.

[nyjastul69]

Hank's Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) has infinite shots. Since they're force effects, they don't give no ****s about DR or resistances. Unless you're fighting Force Dragons in a survival game, in which case you can congratulate yourself on playing the most awesome survival game ever, and get some other arrows which work.

Not all force effects mitigate DR, only some do. Force is not an energy type. Check the specific force effect for details.

[olentu]

Hank's Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) has infinite shots. Since they're force effects, they don't give no ****s about DR or resistances. Unless you're fighting Force Dragons in a survival game, in which case you can congratulate yourself on playing the most awesome survival game ever, and get some other arrows which work.

Hmm, that would seem to be wrong. So far as I can see there is nothing about force effects that make them bypass DR.

[Ashtagon]

I have never understood why this works the way it does. Is this just another example of game balance vs. what really happens? Cause IRL properly made arrows are frequently recoverable. Sure its a little grisly having to pull them through a dead body, but still.

But anyway. As per the title, is there anyway to make arrows recoverable? Preferably with mundane methods/special materials. I am going into a survival situation where arrows may not be readily available, so I would like to at least have a couple of the anti-DR that can be reused.

As others have said, modern arrows are built to last, while medieval era arrows were built to break on impact (both to cause more serious injuries on impact, make healing more difficult, and prevent the arrow being loosed back at you by an enemy archer). However, even arrows that miss can break due to the design.

Notably, even modern construction arrows that miss the target and hit a hard surface (such as hitting the wall of a sports hall instead of the straw boss backing the target) can break. And in an open setting (outdoors or a large cave), arrows that miss can frequently be unrecoverable because you can't find them in any sensible period of time.

If you really want to get grindy about it....

Magical arrows lose their enchantment after being loosed from a bow and then hitting whatever it was they hit (even if what they hit is the ground or a wall). This is a game balance issue. This should also apply if, for some weird reason, you use the arrow as an improvised melee weapon.

Arrows that hit break on impact. They are good as raw materials if you want to re-craft them into fresh arrows using a Craft check. It's normally quite easy to find such arrows, provided the target didn't run away with them.

Arrows that miss are a DC 10 Search check (taking one minute due to covering a wider area) to find. That's one minute per arrow. You can take 20 on this check. Players should only be allowed to take 10 on this check if the characters can be 100% confident that there are no enemies (even hidden ones) within the area.

Arrows that miss will be broken if the general terrain is rocky or urban. In forested or hilly areas, there is a 50% chance of an arrow being broken. In snowfields, farmland, plains, or desert, arrows will generally survive, but the search check should be DC 15, as long grasses (or sand, etc.) will hide the arrows.

In swamps and oceans, the arrow sinks. It's lost for good.

[Vizzerdrix]

You want Livewood. Soak it in water and it mends itself. Tis either in an Eberron or RotW.

[NeroMcNamara]

One thing you can do is have your bow magically enhanced to cast "Summon Weapon" indefinitely. Unlimited arrows means you don't have to worry about recovery. It'll cost you a pretty penny but you won't have to ever worry about arrow recovery so I say it's a win/win.

[Flickerdart]

Hmm, that would seem to be wrong. So far as I can see there is nothing about force effects that make them bypass DR.
Force would fall under "energy damage" which DR doesn't help against, one would imagine.

[olentu]

Force would fall under "energy damage" which DR doesn't help against, one would imagine.

Nah, even if we take it as force damage, for the sake of argument, energy damage is only fire, cold, acid, electricity, and sonic.

[nyjastul69]

Force would fall under "energy damage" which DR doesn't help against, one would imagine.


There are 5 types of energy damage in D&D. Force is not one of them.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Flickerdart]

Nah, even if we take it as force damage, for the sake of argument, energy damage is only fire, cold, acid, electricity, and sonic.
Is it? I don't know of a place that defines energy as being exhaustively these types. What does that make Positive and Negative Energy, then? How can you have force dragons who are immune to force and breathe cones of force - just as the other elemental dragon types?

[olentu]

Is it? I don't know of a place that defines energy as being exhaustively these types. What does that make Positive and Negative Energy, then? How can you have force dragons who are immune to force and breathe cones of force - just as the other elemental dragon types?

PHB page 308: "energy damage: Damage caused by one of five types of energy (not counting positive and negative energy): acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic."

[Fizban]

Force is a descriptor that is often applied to untyped damage, with such frequency that most people think of it as an energy type. This includes a number of writers that didn't do their research. Would be easier if it was since you wouldn't have to specifically look up every component of what you're doing to figure out how it works.

[Uncle Pine]

Hmm, I am pretty sure that applies only if the item is sundered. I suppose I shall have to check.

Edit: Looks like the special material only works when the item has been sundered.

I don't have the English version of BoED, but aurorum seems to work whenever the item does break. Aurorum always worked like that every time someone mentioned it. Why should it work only when the item has been sundered?

To the OP: buy Hank's Energy Bow and further enchant it, or make aurorum arrows.

[olentu]

I don't have the English version of BoED, but aurorum seems to work whenever the item does break. Aurorum always worked like that every time someone mentioned it. Why should it work only when the item has been sundered?

To the OP: buy Hank's Energy Bow and further enchant it, or make aurorum arrows.

Perhaps clarity has been lost in the translation, but in any case it looks like the special material only works with regards to an item that has been sundered in the english version. As to why it should only work when the item has been sundered, because that is what the entry says.

[Ashtagon]

I don't have the English version of BoED, but aurorum seems to work whenever the item does break. Aurorum always worked like that every time someone mentioned it. Why should it work only when the item has been sundered?

To the OP: buy Hank's Energy Bow and further enchant it, or make aurorum arrows.

Hank's energy bow only works if your character's name is Hank.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Hank's energy bow only works if your character's name is Hank.

Henry may also be acceptable.

[Vizzerdrix]

Pointing out Livewood again. Stuff heals itself in water.

[ericp65]

Maybe it was a house rule, but in every D&D/AD&D game I've ever played, mundane wooden arrows always had a 50% chance of being recoverable/reusable after being fired (the other 50% being that the arrow was lost, if it missed, or broken/destroyed if it hit).

Wooden arrows, IRL, are not ruined after one shot, unless something unusual happens on impact. After several uses, though, the shaft develops a bend, or fletchings are damaged or lost. Also, if wooden arrows get wet, they warp, which spoils true flight. One could also refer to wooden arrows as "modern arrows," since they're still made to this day, although I realize y'all refer to aluminum or carbon fiber arrows here as "modern."

If an arrow becomes warped, it's no longer reliable ammunition, and should then be either destroyed or used for something besides archery (unless you want to rule that a warped wooden shaft, carefully exposed to heat, can be straightened). If the shaft cracks or breaks, that's the end of that arrow (there's no way to repair it). Fletchings can easily be replaced.

It might be a good house rule that arrowheads are always recoverable (except in reasonable cases, like a flint arrowhead shattering against hard material).

Bows with heavier pull have an increased chance of arrows breaking on impact, as they launch the arrow with greater force/velocity, so one could rule that STR bows ("mighty masterwork" or what have you) increase the chance of arrow breakage, or just assume that all mundane wooden arrows fired from such a bow are destroyed on impact, but recoverable if they miss *and* if you find them.

Just some thoughts from my experience and observations after 40 years off and on of doing archery :smallsmile:

[gondrizzle]

Even a mass-produced medieval war arrow was a complex piece of equipment. Setting aside the bodkin vs broadhead argument (anti-armor vs hunting, basically), they weren't just sticks with feathers on one end. They were made of multiple pieces and types of wood and horn. The heads would come off and the shaft would tend to splinter or at least bend if they hit anything at all. While some of them could be reused, they'd need careful attention by a skilled fletcher. Yanking one out of a corpse and nocking it straight in would be a fantastic way to miss by a mile.

Just for fun: shortbows, composite shortbows, longbows, and composite longbows should all use different arrow types, by the way. Even if you somehow standardized a length, all those bows would want different amounts of spine (stiffness) to their arrow shafts.

[gondrizzle]

Hank's energy bow only works if your character's name is Hank.

I've been really tempted to rule that it actually changes your name to Hank. Or at least forces a will save to not respond any time anyone yells "Hey, Hank!"

... I like playing campaigns with... characterful magic items, okay?

[olentu]

Pointing out Livewood again. Stuff heals itself in water.

The eberron stuff that you can cast speak with plants and the like on and sometimes has dryads living in it. I don't see that property on the special material. I may be completely missing it or that may be detailed elsewhere then the eberron campaign setting entry but you may be thinking of some other special material.

[TuggyNE]

I've been really tempted to rule that it actually changes your name to Hank. Or at least forces a will save to not respond any time anyone yells "Hey, Hank!"

I could go for the second one, no problem. Amusing little in-joke, no serious implications most of the time, and has a tiny little chance of actually making a difference.

[ArqArturo]

Adamantine?.

[ArqArturo]

I've been really tempted to rule that it actually changes your name to Hank. Or at least forces a will save to not respond any time anyone yells "Hey, Hank!"

... I like playing campaigns with... characterful magic items, okay?

Back a while ago, I had a legend of a knife so sharp, it could find its way to Dispater's throat. The Knife's name was 'The Carrot-peeler's knife', because the rogue that used it forgot his weapons in the Thief's Guild he escaped from, and took that knife from an inn.

Because of that, there are several magical knock-offs of the dagger called like that.

[ericgrau]

Cause IRL properly made arrows are frequently recoverable. Sure its a little grisly having to pull them through a dead body, but still.
If fired at a soft practice target in an open area they are almost always recoverable. But in combat they can easily get broken or lost. I could see a DM being lenient if there aren't any hard obstacles like walls and if there isn't any brush. Which basically means mud-huts-on-lawns village. Not forest, dungeons, cities, caves or most anywhere else adventurers go.

Arrows are cheap enough that you could craft a bunch without taking too long. If you have the 1800 gp you could get a quiver of elhonna (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#efficientQuiver) to carry a lot more. Or just a handy haversack. You could make an argument to your DM for premade arrowheads since you can't bring a forge. Then finish the shafts in the wilderness later. That also saves time on the precious metal arrows for DR.

[Flickerdart]

I've been really tempted to rule that it actually changes your name to Hank. Or at least forces a will save to not respond any time anyone yells "Hey, Hank!"

... I like playing campaigns with... characterful magic items, okay?
You're hiding in an enemy's castle, when a guard on patrol greets a guard on watch named Hank. I hope you have a good movement speed. :smallbiggrin:

[gondrizzle]

You're hiding in an enemy's castle, when a guard on patrol greets a guard on watch named Hank. I hope you have a good movement speed. :smallbiggrin:

My campaign world already has a million people named Hank, because whenever my players surprise me by wanting info from some random NPC I didn't write out all the way, Hank is one of the five or so names my brain always pops out on the spur of the moment. Hank is, to me, an inherently funny name.

When they get a little higher (only 6th level at the moment) I may drop them a few hooks about a vast conspiracy by all the Hanks. They're all related or something, they secretly control the world, who knows.