OOTS #893 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Porthos]

Oh, ****. :smallannoyed:

...

Roy really should know better than to tempt fate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TemptingFate) like that. :smallsigh:

[Kornaki]

Just stay hidden behind that wall for the next (concentration) many rounds, then run like heck.

"Man, Elan had to make a lot of constitution checks that day"

[SaintRidley]

Oh, ****. :smallannoyed:

Exactly what I said when I saw her. Bad time for a Sending.

[Faenhir]

Mwahaha take that Nale!
Now the question: Is the sending from the decimated resistance or Hinjo's forces? I seriously hope it's Hinjo's army converging on the pyramid, but it probably won't be.
DAMNIT Giant, why must you keep us in so much suspense?

[RustyVenture]

So now we know the timeline. Xykon (thinks he) has his phylactery back and is on the move. He's in the astral plane now and is thus only a day or two's worth of spells from Redcloak behind.

Things should get real interesting.

Edit: This comic is why I think this sending Haley is getting is letting her know the Resistance is crushed and Xykon is on the move: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html

[Yana]

And now Haley knows that Xykon is on the move. This should lend a greater sense of urgency to the Order's actions.

[Sir_Thaddeus]

Wow. Last panel, it looks like they're probably getting news of Xykon. Roy is not going to be happy about that.
Also, I really enjoy the banter between Nale and Malack. I look forward to the end of their mission when they can cut loose against each other.
Also, side note, this is the first time I've managed to post on the first page of the discussion thread. How about that for good timing.

[Haluesen]

Oh my gosh. :smalleek: Oh jeez all this is getting tense. Can't wait to see how this goes!

Someone check my thinking, but Sendings can only be heard by whoever they are sent to right? Just want to be sure of it...

[zql]

I guess bad news are finally reaching our heroes

Roy's face when seeing Durkon :smallfrown:





on the other hand, two strips in a row :smallsmile:

[Porthos]

Exactly what I said when I saw her. Bad time for a Sending.

Elan's slipping. He didn't look on in horror at Roy's comment. :smalltongue:

[Gopher]

So is a sending audible to people to whom it's not addressed?

This is a heck of a cliffhanger to end on either way. I'm already impatient for the next strip.

[BowStreetRunner]

I would SO like to see Malack and Nale go at it...:smallbiggrin:

[Lord Raziere]

OOTS, keep behind the wall, and just let Xykon and Redcloak wipe the floor with those losers.

then you can attack Xykon and Redcloak yourselves! oh wait….

thats right Xykon and Redcloak are epic level spellcasters. attacking them is even worse.

eh, follow my advice anyways, you'll die anyways, but at least you'll die smart. :smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

I just went to brush my teeth, and then this!

Oh man. Ooooooohhhh man this is bad. Closing in indeed.

[SaintRidley]

There is no text in the rules to say whether or not the Sending is audible to everyone, or only one person.

There's a comic linked below which suggests Haley's expression relates to what the Sending portends, not to being heard.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So is a sending audible to people to whom it's not addressed?

No (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html)

Grey Wolf

[R. Malcovitch]

Well, Xykon's appearance is imminant. I'm seriously beginning to wonder what Tarquin is up to. Keep in mind he did something worth keeping secret before the Guild left Bleedingham.

[SaintRidley]

thats right Xykon and Redcloak are epic level spellcasters. attacking them is even worse.


Xykon's epic. Redcloak is level 17.

[BowStreetRunner]

There is no text in the rules to say whether or not the Sending is audible to everyone, or only one person.

I'm leaning toward everyone, given Haley's expression, is the correct interpretation for OotS.

Unless Haley is the only one who can see it because it is being sent to her...no one else seems to be reacting. :smallconfused:

[SaintRidley]

Yeah, I fixed that after double checking uses of Sending in the archive.

[BobVosh]

So they had a Chuul and what was the other thing with them?

[Porthos]

There is no text in the rules to say whether or not the Sending is audible to everyone, or only one person.

I'm leaning toward everyone, given Haley's expression, is the correct interpretation for OotS.

We had always played it as only the person it was targeted at could hear it. But when I re-read it last night, I didn't see anything about it one way or the other.

Hence my, "Oh, ****."

But as Grey_Wolf_c pointed out, the comic has already shown One Person Only.

So.... Maybe the Sending is going to Haley for some reason? :smallconfused:

[R. Malcovitch]

Xykon's epic. Redcloak is level 17.

Considering how rare casters capable of 9th level spells are in OotS world, he may as well be epic.

We have yet to see Malack cast anything close to that. Team Evil is still an order of magnitude stronger than Tarquin et all.

[SaintRidley]

But as Grey_Wolf_c pointed out, the comic has already shown One Person Only.

So.... Maybe the Sending is going to Haley for some reason? :smallconfused:

Yeah, I fixed up my post after seeing that comic.

As for why Haley, because Niu is the one who had to relay the info, and she can describe Haley a lot better than she can Roy. Or that's what I'm going to assume, anyway.

[Jay R]

Does anyone recognize who's doing the sending?

[R. Malcovitch]

He's in the astral plane now and is thus only a day or two's worth of spells from Redcloak behind.

It's worse (better?) than that. The caster is a fresh face, which means she's probably one of Hinjo's group who rested and prepared Sending once Hinjo got the message that Xykon was one day away... and resting takes one day.

Xykon is cleared for teleport RIGHT NOW.

[stsasser]

Unless Haley is the only one who can see it because it is being sent to her...no one else seems to be reacting. :smallconfused:

Mr. Scruffy is also reacting.

[Psyren]

It's not audible to anyone else, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html) no. But her attempts to respond would be.

[SaintRidley]

Mr. Scruffy is also reacting.

That might be more to how near Malack and Durkon are and what they did to Belkar last time they were this close.

[ti'esar]

I used to be a little uncertain, but Malack's last line has pretty much sealed it for me: he's operating under the assumption that he can kill Nale when the mission is over.

Also, :smallfrown: for Roy. And :smalleek: at the last panel.

[Illven]

How long has it been since the fall of Azure city?

Because I'm not sure if Haley can be the target of sending right now?

[Sir_Leorik]

This strip is an emotional roller coaster. The pain on Roy's face at seeing Count Durkon, followed by the comical bickering between Nale and Malack (Malack's silence when questioned by Nale about whether Malack could have warned him about the trap is priceless!) only to end with trepidation as the Azurite priestess sends to Haley.

Before anyone asks, the target of a sending spell is "one creature"; (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm) since Haley is reacting to the Azurite priestess' message, Haley is the target of the spell. Why is Haley being contacted and not Roy? How should I know?! I don't write the comic, I just know how to play D&D!

[RustyVenture]

Well, Xykon's appearance is imminant. I'm seriously beginning to wonder what Tarquin is up to. Keep in mind he did something worth keeping secret before the Guild left Bleedingham.

I think they have a couple days. They left for the astral plane about the time Nheiu sent to Hinjo. Xykon wants a day or two of spells out of Redcloak on his phylactery fortress before they go to Girard's gate.

[JCAll]

Girard's defenses continue to fail to impress. Congratulations, you've minimally inconvenienced the mid level B-villain with your booby trap!

[SaintRidley]

How long has it been since the fall of Azure city?

Because I'm not sure if Haley can be the target of sending right now?

Never mind that. Too tired to think right now, appaarently.

[Syncrogti]

Oh man! what a great comic, I have absolutely no idea what will happen next but it's going to be good, or bad...

PS - This bodes badly for Nale

[Aldrakan]

Considering how rare casters capable of 9th level spells are in OotS world, he may as well be epic.

We have yet to see Malack cast anything close to that. Team Evil is still an order of magnitude stronger than Tarquin et all.

Bear in mind that Malack suffers a crippling eight level adjustment due to his vampirism. It's reasonable to assume that the rest of Tarquin's team is significantly higher level.
Actually I kind of wonder how that worked. We know Malack was a vampire long before he met Tarquin.
Did they have a kind of arrangement where he got them through encounters normally beyond them at low levels so they got better items and then as they leveled up and he stayed the same they supported him through higher level challenges to scrape him a bit of experience?

[SaintRidley]

Girard's defenses continue to fail to impress. Congratulations, you've minimally inconvenienced the mid level B-villain with your booby trap!

You can thank V for eliminating a staggering amount of the defenses. If they fail to impress, it's not because they sucked but because most of them aren't on anymore.

[Sir_Leorik]

I used to be a little uncertain, but Malack's last line has pretty much sealed it for me: he's operating under the assumption that he can kill Nale when the mission is over.

Also, :smallfrown: for Roy. And :smalleek: at the last panel.

Nale has been living on borrowed time ever since Malack saw him in the Imperial Palace in Bleedingham. While Tarquin convinced Malack to let Nale live long enough to lead them to the Gate and gain whatever cooperation he can get from Xykon, as soon as Malack learns that Xykon won't cooperate with Nale (or possibly doesn't even remember him) Nale is getting a bunch of negative levels where the sun don't shine.

[Yendor]

Sending doesn't run afoul of any known protections granted by Cloister.

You're not doing well at this today, are you? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

(That said, it's been long enough that it's worn off.)

[Porthos]

Sending doesn't run afoul of any known protections granted by Cloister.

V never thought to cast Sending then? :smallconfused:

[Sir_Leorik]

Sending doesn't run afoul of any known protections granted by Cloister.

Here's how Celia described cloister's effects: "Teleportation, scrying, plane shifting, dimension doors, locating creatures, sending, ethereal jaunts, you name it, it blocked it." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

Sending is in fact on the list of spells blocked.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Yendor!

[SaintRidley]

You're not doing well at this today, are you? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

(That said, it's been long enough that it's worn off.)

I'm not. It's late, and I'm tired, and forgot about the "No Communication" clause.

[Syncrogti]

Could Roy's sword glow around Malack or Durkon, and if so, would Silent Image hide it? I.e. would his sword reveal their location?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Could Roy's sword glow around Malack or Durkon, and if so, would Silent Image hide it? I.e. would his sword reveal their location?

Roy's sword glow happens only when he attacks. It's not like a LotR sword, it doesn't just shine when enemies of the appropriate class are near.

GW

[Grey Watcher]

At least they get SOME warning that Xykon's on his way.....:smalleek:

[shamgar001]

Why is Haley being contacted and not Roy? How should I know?! I don't write the comic, I just know how to play D&D!

I would say it's because she was the leader of the Azurite resistance.

[stsasser]

That might be more to how near Malack and Durkon are and what they did to Belkar last time they were this close.

I took it as more of a duplicate of Haley's expression :smalleek:, but you might be right.

[Copperdragon]

So, how many seconds until Xykon pops in?

[Sky_Schemer]

So...there's been speculation that Tarquin is gathering TT together. And the LG is headed towards the gate. And TE is on the way. This is potentially setting up a 3- or 4-way battle, isn't it?

The outcome of this could be very messy. Not to mention potentially leave a huge power vacuum on the Western continent. :smalleek:

[Joseph_Lavode]

Is it just me, or does Nale seem way too confident? Specifically about his survival? He has to know Malack will try to kill him when he's outlived his usefulness, but this strip seems to imply he has a plan to get away alive, or possibly kill Malack. The second to last panel has what I read as thinly veiled threats on both sides. Or is he really so oblivious that he doesn't see it coming?

[Porthos]

So...there's been speculation that Tarquin is gathering TT together. And the LG is headed towards the gate. And TE is on the way. This is potentially setting up a 3- or 4-way battle, isn't it?

Ian Starshine is overdue for an appearance. :smalltongue: He might have made friends with the Draketooth's in some capacity (friends in low places, as it were).

[Anarion]

I'm assuming that sending and it's reply are quiet enough that Haley won't give away their position. But omg her freakout eyes at that sending. This comic is so tense right now.

[mattie_p]

I'm assuming that sending and it's reply are quiet enough that Haley won't give away their position. But omg her freakout eyes at that sending. This comic is so tense right now.

But if she gasps in horror... only a listen check away.

[Illven]

You're not doing well at this today, are you? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

(That said, it's been long enough that it's worn off.)

Has it been? I mean Tsukiko mentioned Xykon had been casting it every few weeks. It had at least 5 weeks since Haley left Azure city (And probably more)

[Kornaki]

The second to last panel has what I read as thinly veiled threats on both sides. Or is he really so oblivious that he doesn't see it coming?

The sixth panel is basically

:nale: "Did you let me walk into this death trap?"

"Yes"

He's got to be at least pseudo onto things if he's aware enough to ask that question

[BrotherMirtillo]

Three bits spring to mind.

One -- crap, they’re down to the time it would take Redcloak to go to the Astral Plane, cast all of Xykon’s spells, and refill for some Gate action. I guess that’s nine or seventeen hours, minus the time it took for Niu to get to safety, plan her message, and fire up the scroll, minus the extra time it took for Hinjo and company to fall back, plan their own message, and Send. I feel like Team Evil’s gonna show up in less time than it takes to bake a batch of cookies.
:xykon: *Ding* You’re done.

Two -- Malack is definitely smiling at the thought of not having to worry about Nale anymore. Just in case it wasn’t obvious that he’s already counting down the rounds to the big finish.

And three -- I notice that Nale only got fried from the waist down. I’m guessing his Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) let him only take half damage.

[Kornaki]

Hey you know what's weird? Elan is smiling in the last panel. Is he just super happy that his illusion actually worked, or is he thinking about how awesome it will be when Malack finally eats Nale for lunch (literally)

[kxm]

A bit puzzled over who's doing the sending and why it's to Haley. The only people that would send to Haley instead of Roy would be those that were in the resistance, but all of them are dead except for Niu. It seems like the sending is coming from an Azurite cleric in Hinjo's colony, but in that case, why not send to Roy? Also, Hinjo has been doing all of the sending personally so far using scrolls.

[EmperorSarda]

Has it been? I mean Tsukiko mentioned Xykon had been casting it every few weeks. It had at least 5 weeks since Haley left Azure city (And probably more)

It's been a little over two weeks since Roy was resurrected. Given that Haley left Azure City at about the 4 month mark of Roy's death/the goblin conquest of Azure Cite, and it is maybe 5 weeks left until it has been a year, it's been about 7 months or so; 35 weeks. More than enough time for the Cloister to fade from Haley.

[JavaScribe]

You can thank V for eliminating a staggering amount of the defenses. If they fail to impress, it's not because they sucked but because most of them aren't on anymore.
If V hadn't done so, The Linear Guild could have still bypassed the outer defenses by teleporting.

The Linear Guild probably would have had trouble with the Draketooth family themselves, but even so, the dungeon defences have thus far failed to impress. If nothing else, most of their illusions seem to be phantasms, which means there's a big undead/construct shaped hole in them. Team Evil could have easily handled everything we've seen thus far.

[Bulldog Psion]

Hm, interesting, but why a sending to Haley? :smallconfused:

[EmperorSarda]

Also, Hinjo has been doing all of the sending personally so far using scrolls.

No... Hinjo has been the recipient of the sending from both the Elves, the Resistance, and the Order; communicating to each when they send to him.

He cannot use sending scrolls because it is not paladin spell and he most likely does not have ranks in Use Magic Device. He has to rely on casters to be able to send. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

[jere7my]

So they had a Chuul and what was the other thing with them?

That's a piscoloth/piscodaemon and (probably) a barbed devil.

[kxm]

No... Hinjo has been the recipient of the sending from both the Elves, the Resistance, and the Order; communicating to each when they send to him.

He cannot use sending scrolls because it is not paladin spell and he most likely does not have ranks in Use Magic Device. He has to rely on casters to be able to send. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

Hm, didn't realize that, thanks for clarifying. So this is a cleric sending on behalf of Hinjo, still unsure why it's to Haley. I guess we'll find out.

[Sky_Schemer]

...the dungeon defences have thus far failed to impress. If nothing else, most of their illusions seem to be phantasms, which means there's a big undead/construct shaped hole in them. Team Evil could have easily handled everything we've seen thus far.

Considering the vast majority of the illusions are no longer active, there is no evidence to support your claim.

[Raven777]

Bear in mind that Malack suffers a crippling eight level adjustment due to his vampirism. It's reasonable to assume that the rest of Tarquin's team is significantly higher level.
Actually I kind of wonder how that worked. We know Malack was a vampire long before he met Tarquin.
Did they have a kind of arrangement where he got them through encounters normally beyond them at low levels so they got better items and then as they leveled up and he stayed the same they supported him through higher level challenges to scrape him a bit of experience?

Or the OotSverse does what a sensible person would do and doesn't bother with LA :smalltongue:

[B. Dandelion]

Random theory: maybe the sending is to Haley because they had tried to send to Roy before and he wasn't responsive (still caught in the illusion). So now they're trying the other members of the Order.

(Which would be a bad sign, because it would put even more time in between Xykon's departure and the Order's forewarning.)

Probably overthinking a minor detail though.

[Porthos]

No... Hinjo has been the recipient of the sending from both the Elves, the Resistance, and the Order; communicating to each when they send to him.

He cannot use sending scrolls because it is not paladin spell and he most likely does not have ranks in Use Magic Device. He has to rely on casters to be able to send. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

It's #670 where Hinjo has someone else (Durkon) do a Sending for him. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) In #671, I presume he is saying he can't contact the Resisitance group because of the Cloister (you can send out, but can't send in) restrictions.

[Eloi]

Hm, didn't realize that, thanks for clarifying. So this is a cleric sending on behalf of Hinjo, still unsure why it's to Haley. I guess we'll find out.

She was the leader of the Azurite Resistance for awhile, and is thus the one who has the most investment in their fate. I don't think it's ambiguous why she was the one to receive the sending.

[Porthos]

Random theory: maybe the sending is to Haley because they had tried to send to Roy before and he wasn't responsive (still caught in the illusion). So now they're trying the other members of the Order.

(Which would be a bad sign, because it would put even more time in between Xykon's departure and the Order's forewarning.)

Probably overthinking a minor detail though.

With the 10 minute casting window, that's very possible. :smalleek:

[Illven]

It's been a little over two weeks since Roy was resurrected. Given that Haley left Azure City at about the 4 month mark of Roy's death/the goblin conquest of Azure Cite, and it is maybe 5 weeks left until it has been a year, it's been about 7 months or so; 35 weeks. More than enough time for the Cloister to fade from Haley.

Wasn't the Oracle using the Northern year calender though, not the southern year one?

[Lombard]

Nale is getting a bunch of negative levels where the sun don't shine.

:eek:

...the horror....

[Jay R]

Hm, interesting, but why a sending to Haley? :smallconfused:

So she can react to it with dismay while Roy is relieved that they aren't in trouble, of course.

[tiercel]

Hey Nale, nice job having expendable extras and not having them walk in front.

I know he's far short of his Dad in terms of having read the Evil Overlord list, but given a little trope-savviness...

...ah well.

Nice to see some time pressure being brought here.

[Kokomo]

Those fiends are adorable.


And three -- I notice that Nale only got fried from the waist down. I’m guessing his Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) let him only take half damage.

I assumed that when the trap triggered, it surprised him and he tripped over halfway through, getting his head and upper body inside the circle and past the spell's blast effect. Either that, or he's an off-panel limboing champion.


Haley is the target of the spell. Why is Haley being contacted and not Roy? How should I know?! I don't write the comic, I just know how to play D&D!

Hinjo could be working from the assumption that Roy's heroics got him killed again and Haley, as second-in-command, would be the best target of the spell. Maybe he thought that her relationship with the Resistance entitles her to be the first to hear the news?

The potion's aura is slightly more limited than usual, too. Usually it's a whole-body aura, or no aura at all.

[Warren Dew]

Man, talk about leaving us in suspense!

Edit: anyone else think the circle zap is too weak to be a defense? I'm thinking it's more of a magical warning tripwire.

[EmperorSarda]

Wasn't the Oracle using the Northern year calender though, not the southern year one?

A year is roughly a year no matter which calendar you use.

[Aldrakan]

Or the OotSverse does what a sensible person would do and doesn't bother with LA :smalltongue:

It does. Durkon mocked Malack's failure to dispel Mass Death Ward because he should have spent less time studying and more adventuring, implying the failure was due to a difference in caster level. Malack replied that it's difficult for a vampire cleric to find "appropriate challenges". The implication is clearly that his LA makes it hard to find anything he can kill while still gaining a reasonable amount of XP off it.

Xykon doesn't seem to have the same difficulty, but I put that down to the significantly lower LA and him being the main villain - he may benefit from a similar sort of accelerated level gain as Crystal gets for being Haley's nemesis.

[prism6691]

What is Malack casting at the trap to what I assume is disabling it?

Also in the fifth to last panel there is a magicky glow from Durkon. Is he casting something? I would think his color would have changed due to his new alignment.

[CowardlyPaladin]

On the bright news, one less spell Malak has, so the LG's casters are pretty drained.

[137beth]

Nothing to worry about! No upper-mid level vampire, no evil twin, no uper-mid-level wizard, just an epic lich and a high level cleric and an invulnerable monster!

[ThatNickGuy]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but...

Where's Tarquin? He wasn't in the illusion hallway and he's not with them now.

[Warren Dew]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but...

Where's Tarquin? He wasn't in the illusion hallway and he's not with them now.
He stayed up top. See comic 883. My guess is that he wants to come in and save Nale when it's been proven that Nale isn't a competent leader. He also has something up his sleeve, given the exchange about what they can't talk about yet for story reasons.

[Illven]

A year is roughly a year no matter which calendar you use.

The prophecy is "Belkar will die before the end of the year" If I made the same prophecy then it wouldn't matter if I made it in August or January, it would still mean Belkar is dead by December 31st 2013.

If the Oracle was using the Northern calender, then it means it isn't 5 weeks to the next Azure city new year.

[ThatNickGuy]

He stayed up top.

Ah, yes. I just went back to #883 and saw he was staying up top with Kilkil.

[Eloi]

So she can react to it with dismay while Roy is relieved that they aren't in trouble, of course.

That could've easily worked in the reverse though.

Niu was the one that relayed the message to Hinjo. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html) Niu was one of Haley's loyal recruits in the resistance movement against Team Evil since her introduction. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0511.html) As well, her first line of dialogue was given to Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0523.html), and that's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html)who spends most of her time interacting with. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0533.html) Not to mention when Haley left, it was Niu that she left specific instructions for. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0535.html) In all likelihood, she prefaced her message to Hinjo with specific instructions to inform Haley.

[RMS Oceanic]

Uh oh. Attack Warning Red. :smalleek:

[JavaScribe]

Considering the vast majority of the illusions are no longer active, there is no evidence to support your claim.
There was a big list of all the spells the Draketooths needed to maintain. I wasn't able to find any of them in the standard wizard/sorcerer spell list, but the Order said they were mostly high-end phantasms.

Also, any illusions that need to be maintained are non-epic anyways. Probably not a big deal to Xykon.

[Living Oxymoron]

If Haley is the target of the Sending spell... could it be a message from Nyu, telling that the Resistance was crushed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)?

[tbergman92]

Also in the fifth to last panel there is a magicky glow from Durkon. Is he casting something? I would think his color would have changed due to his new alignment.

I don't see Durkon in the fifth to last panel, but in the fourth to last panel, I believe the white color around his hand is Malack's tail.

[Forikroder]

If Haley is the target of the Sending spell... could it be a message from Nyu, telling that the Resistance was crushed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html)?

Nyu sent to Hinjo who is now sending to the OoTs

dont know why Haley is the target myabe ithere sending to all fo them and Haleys is just fastest... which would be BAD since that means Durkon is gonna get a tip off too

[murph04]

I can't help but shake the feeling that Girard isn't dead. Did they ever really confirm if the skeleton under the statue really was him? It think the dead Draketooth's statement "beneath his own feet" referred to further beneath the statues feet, deeper in the pyramid, perhaps in that circular pillar in the room the Order is currently in

[Eloi]

Nyu sent to Hinjo who is now sending to the OoTs

dont know why Haley is the target myabe ithere sending to all fo them and Haleys is just fastest... which would be BAD since that means Durkon is gonna get a tip off too

I'm at the risk of sounding like a broken record, but Niu is best friends with Haley, and Hinjo is sending along her message. Why wouldn't it go to her?

[Forikroder]

I'm at the risk of sounding like a broken record, but Niu is best friends with Haley, and Hinjo is sending along her message. Why wouldn't it go to her?

Roys the leader of the OoTS why give the message to haley so haley can then give the message to Roy? also sending to Roy means Roy can then give a return message and is much more likely to have info Hinjo needs, and again Haley would ahve to consult with Roy before responding to the sending

also Roys less emotional so sending the message to him means less odds of a drastic emotional response, especially considering the odds of the message arriving at a bad time and giving it to Roy means he can weigh his partys emotional condition and decide which ones should know and which ones shouldnt


I can't help but shake the feeling that Girard isn't dead. Did they ever really confirm if the skeleton under the statue really was him? It think the dead Draketooth's statement "beneath his own feet" referred to further beneath the statues feet, deeper in the pyramid, perhaps in that circular pillar in the room the Order is currently in

they havent confirmed it, but it would be almost impossible to really do so

[Living Oxymoron]

I can't help but shake the feeling that Girard isn't dead. Did they ever really confirm if the skeleton under the statue really was him? It think the dead Draketooth's statement "beneath his own feet" referred to further beneath the statues feet, deeper in the pyramid, perhaps in that circular pillar in the room the Order is currently in

In this case, the question is: how did he managed to survive the Familicide? A lot of dragons and half-dragons died under that spell, there isn't any hint that he (or anyone) could resist to it.

[Porthos]

I'm at the risk of sounding like a broken record, but Niu is best friends with Haley, and Hinjo is sending along her message. Why wouldn't it go to her?

Because Roy is the leader of the OOTS? And Hinjo would want to communicate with the leader of the team? :smallconfused:

[Forikroder]

In this case, the question is: how did he managed to survive the Familicide? A lot of dragons and half-dragons died under that spell, there isn't any hint that he (or anyone) could resist to it.
Familicide is strong, but Girard is as strong as it, he could easily have a personal cloister-esque defense around himself preventing himself from being targetted, since Familicide is such a large AoE it most likely has no ability to penetrate epic defenses


Girard could even ahve been higher level then Haerta and jsut make his fort save

[Sith_Happens]

Bear in mind that Malack suffers a crippling eight level adjustment due to his vampirism.

Don't forget an additional +1 LA and 2 RHD from being a lizardfolk vampire.

This puts Malack at ECL 22 at the least, though it's an open question whether the rest of his old party is as well. If they are, then this might actually be an interesting fight (assuming that Tarquin's secret plan is to get the band back together).

[RMS Oceanic]

Once they hear the news, my hope would be Roy hits on the idea to stay out of sight, and let the Linear Guild and Xykon have a fight, then take on the winner. Dunno how feasible that is, but the fact the Linear Guild are now in front and more likely to trigger traps might inspire Roy that the best plan is to let his enemies destroy themselves.

[Ron Miel]

The prophecy is "Belkar will die before the end of the year" If I made the same prophecy then it wouldn't matter if I made it in August or January, it would still mean Belkar is dead by December 31st 2013.

But it would matter which calendar you are using. Islamic? Chinese? Jewish? Gregorian? They all have different dates for when the year ends.

[Eloi]

Roys the leader of the OoTS why give the message to haley so haley can then give the message to Roy? also sending to Roy means Roy can then give a return message and is much more likely to have info Hinjo needs, and again Haley would ahve to consult with Roy before responding to the sending

also Roys less emotional so sending the message to him means less odds of a drastic emotional response, especially considering the odds of the message arriving at a bad time and giving it to Roy means he can weigh his partys emotional condition and decide which ones should know and which ones shouldnt

If you remember correctly, Roy immediately lashed out at Belkar over Durkon's death and enthrallment, while Haley remained calm. :confused:


Because Roy is the leader of the OOTS? And Hinjo would want to communicate with the leader of the team? :smallconfused:

Right, but Haley was the most involved with what the news is about: the Azurite Resistance.

[Forikroder]

Once they hear the news, my hope would be Roy hits on the idea to stay out of sight, and let the Linear Guild and Xykon have a fight, then take on the winner. Dunno how feasible that is, but the fact the Linear Guild are now in front and more likely to trigger traps might inspire Roy that the best plan is to let his enemies destroy themselves.

Xykons not coming from the front, its pretty risky to try to teleport underground there gonna have to do it the same way the LG did, start from the top so if anything Tarquin and Xykon meet first

unless Serinis diary has the exact coordinates and an accurate description of a large underground chamber that Girard built specifically for people to teleport into then even assuming that Xykon has the knowledge neccesary to teleport straight to the gate it would be guarded against teleportation


If you remember correctly, Roy immediately lashed out at Belkar over Durkon's death and enthrallment, while Haley remained calm.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html

Roy stone faced, Haley gasping

then if you remember correctly, Roy got angry that Belkar was lying to the group and trying to get Durkon killed (as he saw it), then after they accept it they all get sad then Roy logically looks at the situation to figure out there next move, he does get a TAD emotional but considering the extreme circumstances its perfectly acceptable and if anything MASSIVE underreaction and he manages to get control of himself very quickly

even look Haley in the current comic, absolutely no poker face, Roy would definently have managed to not let everyone know that something unexpected had jsut happened

[EmperorSarda]

The prophecy is "Belkar will die before the end of the year" If I made the same prophecy then it wouldn't matter if I made it in August or January, it would still mean Belkar is dead by December 31st 2013.

If the Oracle was using the Northern calender, then it means it isn't 5 weeks to the next Azure city new year.

The Oracle is using the Southern Calendar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8569129#post8569129) though.

[Illven]

The Oracle is using the Southern Calendar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8569129#post8569129) though.

Ah my apologies then. I didn't realize so much time had passed. :smallredface:

[Living Oxymoron]

Familicide is strong, but Girard is as strong as it, he could easily have a personal cloister-esque defense around himself preventing himself from being targetted, since Familicide is such a large AoE it most likely has no ability to penetrate epic defenses


Girard could even ahve been higher level then Haerta and jsut make his fort save

I don't like to use attack/saves/check estimations to guess what could happen in OotS, since I prefer the narrative perspective... but in this case I have to say that Girard, being mostly a sorcerer, certainly didn't have a good fortitude save. Besides, I doubt very much that he is or was in a higher level than Haerta, because those casters of the Soul Splice were quite powerful (I believe they were equal or higher level than Xykon) and Haerta was the most powerful among them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0641.html).

[JavaScribe]

Familicide is strong, but Girard is as strong as it, he could easily have a personal cloister-esque defense around himself preventing himself from being targetted, since Familicide is such a large AoE it most likely has no ability to penetrate epic defenses


Girard could even ahve been higher level then Haerta and jsut make his fort save
Unlikely. Familicide was godlike in power. If Girard held something even vaguely resembling that sort of strength, then the permanent defences would be far more than the Order could handle. Besides, his abjurations have already failed to save his family, haven't they?

[Ron Miel]

I'm at the risk of sounding like a broken record, but Niu is best friends with Haley, and Hinjo is sending along her message. Why wouldn't it go to her?

Everyone seems to be assuming the message is coming from Hinjo. I don't think that's certain. True, the hair looks blueish, but that's no guarantee.

I'm betting it's a new player, one we haven't seen before, that already knows Haley. Perhaps Aunt Ivy? Ian & Geoff have made contact with her.

[Eloi]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html

Roy stone faced, Haley gasping

He made the exact same expression when he saw Belkar! It's as if they swapped expressions from one frame to the next.


then if you remember correctly, Roy got angry that Belkar was lying to the group and trying to get Durkon killed (as he saw it), then after they accept it they all get sad then Roy logically looks at the situation to figure out there next move, he does get a TAD emotional but considering the extreme circumstances its perfectly acceptable and if anything MASSIVE underreaction and he manages to get control of himself very quickly


Um... Haley got all of the same information, and didn't jump down Belkar's throat about it like Roy did.


even look Haley in the current comic, absolutely no poker face, Roy would definently have managed to not let everyone know that something unexpected had jsut happened

I don't see where you're basing this information on.

[Forikroder]

I don't like to use attack/saves/check estimations to guess what could happen in OotS, since I prefer the narrative perspective... but in this case I have to say that Girard, being mostly a sorcerer, certainly didn't have a good fortitude save. Besides, I doubt very much that he is or was in a higher level than Haerta, because those casters of the Soul Splice were quite powerful (I believe they were equal or higher level than Xykon) and Haerta was the most powerful among them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0641.html).

Xykon has gone 0-3 (technically) against the Scribbles so far, [spoiler] of the SoD kind [spoiler]Lirian had Xykon and Redcloak in a cell and they only escaped thanks to his cloak and Lirian not knowing what a lich is and Durokan would never have lost without them drawing him out, and they still never managed to destroy his rune[spoiler] [spoiler] and soon managed to beat BOTH of them in a semi-fair fight (sure he had his ghost paladins but it was still pretty extremely one sided)

Xykon so far seems to be the lowest wrung on the epic character ladder and so far has managed to not die due to either dumb luck or one case of extreme patience


Um... Haley got all of the same information, and didn't jump down Belkar's throat about it like Roy did.

1. Haley and Durkon are friends, and not even close friends, Durkon and Roy are practically brothers

2. Haley doesnt hate Belkar NEARLY as much as Roy hates Belkar, Roy pretty much considers Belkar to be the epitome of Evil and completely unredeemable in any scenario Roy WILL Kill Belkar as soon as he gets any good reason, if Roy had been in Haleys shoes at the oracle when Belkar stabbed him, he would ahve done a coup de grace right there

thats why Haley didnt jump down his throat

I don't see where you're basing this information on.

maybe because the last time he got surprising info (his BFF getting killed and Vampirised) he managed to keep his cool, process it and decide what to do with it (disbelief it) without a single facial expression

recieving a sending and learning that Xykon is on the move isnt enough to shake him, if he had learned that at the same time he learned Durkon was really dead then yes but hes got his composure back

[kxm]

Right, but Haley was the most involved with what the news is about: the Azurite Resistance.

But the main focus of the message right now is not so much that the Resistance fell, but that Xykon is on his way right now. That seems like something Hinjo would go to Roy with.


I mean, ultimately it probably doesn't matter much, the Azurites know that Roy and Haley would both tell the other immediately.

[Joseph_Lavode]

Familicide is strong, but Girard is as strong as it, he could easily have a personal cloister-esque defense around himself preventing himself from being targetted, since Familicide is such a large AoE it most likely has no ability to penetrate epic defenses


Girard could even ahve been higher level then Haerta and jsut make his fort save

It seems unlikely that Girard would have any epic defenses to stop familicide from killing him. If so he probably didn't craft them himself:



I don't see Girard as having taken the Epic Spellcasting feat, simply because that was more Dorukan's shtick. And as a multi-class ranger/sorcerer, he would have gotten access to it later and he's not really the type to spend all his time studying (when he could be out "recruiting" his defensive team).

[Forikroder]

But the main focus of the message right now is not so much that the Resistance fell, but that Xykon is on his way right now. That seems like something Hinjo would go to Roy with.


I mean, ultimately it probably doesn't matter much, the Azurites know that Roy and Haley would both tell the other immediately.

its possible that Haley is on some scouting/stealthy mission though

only way this makes sense is if they tried to send to roy 10 minutes ago and got no response or there sending to all Roy, Haley, V and Durkon (them being the responsible ones) to ensure they cover all there bases and to gurantee at least one of them is in a position to mobilize the party (like if they had sent only to Roy while he was in prison he couldnt do much but if they had sent to everyone but the 2 idiots then V/haley could mobilize the party more easily then Roy or durkon)


It seems unlikely that Girard would have any epic defenses to stop familicide from killing him. If so he probably didn't craft them himself:

hes had years to prepare defenses, im sure that protecting himself was at the top of the to-do list, the adventures of the scribbles happened long enough ago that Soon and Durkon both had time to grow into old old men (old enough to die of natural causes even for a Paladin) im sure in that time Girard learned how to study especially since he cut dies with Dorukon and had TONs of free time (his family would be handling 99% of the legwork like defending the cavern and far reachs of the pyramid while he focus on near the gate)

[Emanick]

Right, but Haley was the most involved with what the news is about: the Azurite Resistance.

Well, the most pressing part of the news is not that the Resistance has been crushed, but that Xykon now has the phylactery and is thus on his way to the Gate now. Both are very important, but only the latter is information that the Order needs to know ASAP.

Presumably Hinjo, not Niu, is the one determining who will receive the message. (We don't know for sure that it's an Azurite cleric, of course, but the hair and the cloak seem to be an obvious clue.) I don't know that there's any particular reason why Hinjo would automatically choose Roy as a recipient over Haley, though - he knows Roy slightly better and Roy happens to be the leader, but neither of those facts are particularly important. Perhaps he sent the message to Haley out of courtesy, since the Sending will presumably also mention the fall of the Resistance and Haley ought to be the first to learn about that.

[Forikroder]

Well, the most pressing part of the news is not that the Resistance has been crushed, but that Xykon now has the phylactery and is thus on his way to the Gate now. Both are very important, but only the latter is information that the Order needs to know ASAP.

Presumably Hinjo, not Niu, is the one determining who will receive the message. (We don't know for sure that it's an Azurite cleric, of course, but the hair and the cloak seem to be an obvious clue.) I don't know that there's any particular reason why Hinjo would automatically choose Roy as a recipient over Haley, though - he knows Roy slightly better and Roy happens to be the leader, but neither of those facts are particularly important. Perhaps he sent the message to Haley out of courtesy, since the Sending will presumably also mention the fall of the Resistance and Haley ought to be the first to learn about that.
it is possible that Niu never recieved a reply from hinjo (him being too panicky too reply) and so she searchs for a cleric who can get the word out (on the off chance Hinjo and the Azurites are unreachable) so she pays a cleric (perhaps theres a backup cleric outside the range of cloister they periodically head to to send reports) and describes haley to this cleric (Haley being the only one Niu can remember well enough)

that would explain it

[Porthos]

Well, theoretically it's the return message that might be of importance.

Hinjo ain't gonna be happy when he hears about the fate of the Gate Defenders.

[Eloi]

Well, the most pressing part of the news is not that the Resistance has been crushed, but that Xykon now has the phylactery and is thus on his way to the Gate now. Both are very important, but only the latter is information that the Order needs to know ASAP.

Presumably Hinjo, not Niu, is the one determining who will receive the message. (We don't know for sure that it's an Azurite cleric, of course, but the hair and the cloak seem to be an obvious clue.) I don't know that there's any particular reason why Hinjo would automatically choose Roy as a recipient over Haley, though - he knows Roy slightly better and Roy happens to be the leader, but neither of those facts are particularly important. Perhaps he sent the message to Haley out of courtesy, since the Sending will presumably also mention the fall of the Resistance and Haley ought to be the first to learn about that.

This was pretty much my line of thought, and presumably Hinjo would do this out of respect of Niu, who sent the message to be relayed.

[Forikroder]

Well, theoretically it's the return message that might be of importance.

Hinjo ain't gonna be happy when he hears about the fate of the Gate Defenders.

i wonder if theyll bother telling him, they may use the reply to tell hinjo to start looking for a way to ressurect them/find a new group of Heros

[zimmerwald1915]

And three -- I notice that Nale only got fried from the waist down. I’m guessing his Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) let him only take half damage.
Evasion doesn't work that way. Improved evasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#specialAbilities) does; it lets you take half damage on a failed save. That said, Nale probably took full damage, because he'd need ten levels of Rogue to have improved evasion, and he's already demonstrated having at least eight levels of Sorcerer and one of Fighter. Somehow I doubt Nale is level 19. The placement of the wounds on his body just reflect where the trap hit him.

[rodneyAnonymous]

What spell does Malack cast on the trap circle in the 7th frame? He appears to disable and remove it.

Dispel magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm)?

[Chaotic Queen]

Roy's face at seeing Durkon is heartbreaking.

People are complaining about the poor defenses, but you have to remember this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html
The temple's most powerful defenses have already worn off, and only the most basic ones are still working.

Wow, it's hard to believe it's been over a year since their adventure started.

[Bulldog Psion]

What spell does Malack cast on the trap circle in the 7th frame? He appears to disable and remove it.

Dispel magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm)?

Some sort of dispel, definitely.

[ericgrau]

What spell does Malack cast on the trap circle in the 7th frame? He appears to disable and remove it.
Dispel magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) or the greater version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagicGreater.htm) is usually what's used to get rid of random magic things. The comic probably glossed over it because it's so common.

There are also other more specialized effects you might sometimes see. They work better than dispel against their specialized target (lower chance of failure), or sometimes dispel doesn't work at all against certain effects. But these spells tend to be for creatures not objects, so I'm gonna guess 98% chance Malack used dispel.

[the_tick_rules]

Maybe they'll kill themselves in a panel or two?

[ooOoo]

Nale getting zapped was really satisfying. :amused:

[talkamancer]

Poor Roy and the look of anguish on his face when he sees Dukon.

[DaggerPen]

Looks like the trap wasn't that lethal after all, heh. So much for Nale's trapfinding abilities.

As for the Sending - I was half-expecting it to arrive only after Xykon, but this sure works, too. Ouch.

Great comic, as usual!

[Dekinjein]

The prophecy is "Belkar will die before the end of the year" If I made the same prophecy then it wouldn't matter if I made it in August or January, it would still mean Belkar is dead by December 31st 2013.

If the Oracle was using the Northern calender, then it means it isn't 5 weeks to the next Azure city new year.

Or, y'know the Oracle lied.

[Nilehus]

Scruffy sure looks freaked out. He must remember Malack.

[davidbofinger]

Just stay hidden behind that wall for the next (concentration) many rounds, then run like heck.

And then what? Play your DVD of On the Beach while waiting for the world to unravel?

Even if they win, the long-term prospects for the OOTS world seem pretty grim. If the rifts can't be completely sealed then they're just waiting for a catastrophic event: someone evil captures a gate, or makes their own gate, or someone destroys all the gates.

The main potential for happy endings revolves around the world within the snarl. Whatever that is.


But it would matter which calendar you are using. Islamic? Chinese? Jewish? Gregorian? They all have different dates for when the year ends.

The Oracle is a follower of Tiamat, who is one of the western gods, so perhaps a middle-eastern calendar?

[Porthos]

Or, y'know the Oracle lied.

He used the official Oracle Trance Voice. To put it 'on the record (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)' in his words.

[t209]

I hope Haley didn't scream in Anger and despair when she heard about the news. "Red Cloak, Give me back my Resistance". "Metal Gear Solid exposed noise"
I thought all azurites clerics are dead.

[factotum]

I thought all azurites clerics are dead.

What made you think that? :smallconfused: All the Resistance are dead, but the casters who were on the fleet with Hinjo and the others certainly aren't, and Hinjo already said he would be staying in touch with everyone via Sending--I don't think he would have said that without knowing he had the ability to do so!

[Cavenskull]

But it would matter which calendar you are using. Islamic? Chinese? Jewish? Gregorian? They all have different dates for when the year ends.

Confirmed here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0302.html).


It's been a little over two weeks since Roy was resurrected. Given that Haley left Azure City at about the 4 month mark of Roy's death/the goblin conquest of Azure Cite, and it is maybe 5 weeks left until it has been a year, it's been about 7 months or so; 35 weeks. More than enough time for the Cloister to fade from Haley.
Your math is off. If Haley and Belkar had really been out of the Cloister area for 7 months, there would have been no excuse for Vaarsuvius' ongoing inability to locate them.

Remember that Azure City didn't fall at the beginning of the year. At the time of Azure City's New Year, Miko was sent to the dwarven homelands to deliver a letter on Durkon's behalf and then return with a reply. Miko was able to complete that entire journey before Xykon and Redcloak attacked Azure City. Considering that Haley had mentioned to Celia that Cliffport was way more than four weeks north (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) of Azure City, it stands to reason that a journey to the dwarven lands would take even longer than that, meaning that it must have been several months after the New Year that the attack on Azure City occurred. It would be easy to assume that Miko's journey took 6-7 months to complete, placing the fall of Azure City about halfway into the year.

[Arrowstorm122]

Pretty sure the message is from Hinjo's base, since Niu or whatever her name is send her only Sending scroll to Hinjo, and Hinjo said they would contact them right away when Xykon got his phylactery. That's why he went back to base in a previous strip.

Since Xykon just had to put his "phylactery" in his Astral Realm Base, I'd assume he could arrive any second/strip now.

[Killer Angel]

Roy, haven't you learned anything from Elan? never say anything like that, at the end of a strip!

[DaggerPen]

... if Cloister has now worn off on Haley, I'm a little bit concerned, because it probably has on O-Chul, too. Obviously, Team Evil has higher priorities right now, but after this?

Of course, after this, they're going to the final gate in the dwarven lands anyway, where O-Chul was sent, so I guess O-Chul's going to be in harm's way regardless.

Also, I totally did not think it had been long enough for the Cloister effect to have worn off on Haley, though. Xykon's been renewing the spell every few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html), so even if "few weeks" means as many as, for example, five weeks, and Haley left just before Xykon cast it again, with it having been five weeks since it was cast on her, she'd still have about 16 or 17 weeks of duration left (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) (Xykon's estimated at level 22, right? I know he's 21 at minimum from this strip). I knew that it'd taken them some time to get here, but not that long!

[pikeamus]

Haley seems like a sensible choice as target for sending to me. She's the second in command and has demonstrated competance and a cool head in crisis. Additionally, she is an archer while Roy is front line melee. If they were mid battle when the sending came in who do you think is least likely to be too distracted to hear the message? In a special forces team you wouldn't ask the guy taking point to hold the only radio, it would sit with someone further back. For that matter, in older war films the squadrons usually had a comms officer that would send and recieve messages, relaying info to the leader when appropriate. Presumably this was because the team leader would often be too busy to focus on the message and might miss something.

[Morty]

I'm sure their constant bickering won't come back to bite the Linear Guild in the rear.

[Sunken Valley]

... if Cloister has now worn off on Haley, I'm a little bit concerned, because it probably has on O-Chul, too. Obviously, Team Evil has higher priorities right now, but after this?

Of course, after this, they're going to the final gate in the dwarven lands anyway, where O-Chul was sent, so I guess O-Chul's going to be in harm's way regardless.

Also, I totally did not think it had been long enough for the Cloister effect to have worn off on Haley, though. Xykon's been renewing the spell every few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html), so even if "few weeks" means as many as, for example, five weeks, and Haley left just before Xykon cast it again, with it having been five weeks since it was cast on her, she'd still have about 16 or 17 weeks of duration left (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) (Xykon's estimated at level 22, right? I know he's 21 at minimum from this strip). I knew that it'd taken them some time to get here, but not that long!

Xykon recast it after Haley left.

[Obscure Blade]

I'm sure their constant bickering won't come back to bite the Linear Guild in the rear.
Well, not with two vampires along. The neck however is another matter.

[Needle]

OMG Haley D:

This is wonderful x_x

[Mike Havran]

Huh. I also thought Haley was still under the Cloister protection and so the Sending shouldn't have reached her. Maybe the corridor washed off the Cloister effects?

Also, nice to see Nale getting zapped :smallamused: A cleric spotted the trap and he could not...

[Mido]

And the news finally reaches Haley's ears, the resistance crushed, the phylactery found and team Evil on the move. This race just became direly desperate for the heroes. Roy, I hope you've got a good, hit-the-ground-running plan somewhere in there, you're gonna need it. :smalleek:

[DaggerPen]

Xykon recast it after Haley left.

Yeah, but Tsukiko mentioned that Xykon was recasting it every few weeks, without mentioning when he started doing that. Presumably he's been recasting it every few weeks since when he first cast it, meaning that even if he recast it the day after Haley left, at the very end of the recasting cycle, he would still have cast it about 2-5 weeks before Haley left the city.

[toughluck]

it is possible that Niu never recieved a reply from hinjo (him being too panicky too reply) and so she searchs for a cleric who can get the word out (on the off chance Hinjo and the Azurites are unreachable) so she pays a cleric (perhaps theres a backup cleric outside the range of cloister they periodically head to to send reports) and describes haley to this cleric (Haley being the only one Niu can remember well enough)

that would explain it

Are we reading the same comic? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html)

Second edit: Just to clarify: Note how composed Niu was during the sending and how Hinjo retreated, apparently to make the necessary plans. He couldn't have reacted during combat. Shortly after retreating, he would be able to respond to Niu.
Niu didn't need a reply from Hinjo, she was well aware that he would probably be unable to describe her (there is no indication that the characters see the sender, and d20srd is ambiguous about it).


Or, y'know the Oracle lied.

Or, y'know, the Oracle omitted the detail that Roy will be the one to kill Belkar for completely ridiculous reasons (as he had already been on the verge of doing).

[elros]

The strip did advance the plot, but really didn't have a punchline at the end. It goes to show what a wonderful job the Giant does to mix humor while advancing the plot.
Also, sad to see Roy's facial expression when he realizes that Durkon is a vampire. It also says a lot when a stick figure can have "facial expression"!

[pendell]

We had always played it as only the person it was targeted at could hear it. But when I re-read it last night, I didn't see anything about it one way or the other.

Hence my, "Oh, ****."

But as Grey_Wolf_c pointed out, the comic has already shown One Person Only.

So.... Maybe the Sending is going to Haley for some reason? :smallconfused:

Haley was the leader of a faction of the Azure City resistance for many months. So she is better known and trusted than any of the other OOTS members save Roy himself. And I note it isn't Hinjo sending (who would probably send to Roy) but someone else.

Heh. very .. interesting strip. And well played by Malack. How exactly Nale expects to overcome him, when half of the party is under Malack's direct domination, is beyond me. He's in "command" for the moment, but the only thing keeping him alive when the other party members are Malack, Durkula (controlled by Malack), Z'zdtri, and two fiends (summoned/controlled by Malack and Durkon) is Malack's lawful alignment.

Edit: Also, if I had to choose ONE OOTS member to send to and only one, I would send to the one most likely to still be alive and functional. Given Roy spent much of the DSTP arc a rotting corpse, my first attempt would be to Haley, too. She has already demonstrated a noted lack of testosterone in that she doesn't heroically jump onto the backs of dragons with epic level liches and get heroically blasted by meteor swarm, then heroically dropping like a stone from a thousand feet in the air and dying heroically. So if I were in Azure City and asking myself "What OOTS character is most likely to be alive and able to respond to sending?" "Haley" would be my first choice as well.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[shadowpriest]

Also, nice to see Nale getting zapped :smallamused: A cleric spotted the trap and he could not...
I agree on the zapping. Still, as already mentioned, Nale is a low-level rogue, and he shouldn't be able to spot that kind of powerful trap. Malack, on the other hand, might have perceived the magic imbued in the trap.

[isleofredemptio]

Well.

I'm anxious for Xykon to pop up, mistake the Linear Guild for the Order, and just straight-up obliterate them. Nothing would make me happier than to see that overpowered, plot-armored group of jackholes reduced to a smoldering heap, no matter who was responsible for it.

[Severus Drape]

Seriously now, is there *any* defense worth something in this zigurrat?

[Unkillable_Cat]

I can't help but shake the feeling that Girard isn't dead. Did they ever really confirm if the skeleton under the statue really was him? It think the dead Draketooth's statement "beneath his own feet" referred to further beneath the statues feet, deeper in the pyramid, perhaps in that circular pillar in the room the Order is currently in


In this case, the question is: how did he managed to survive the Familicide? A lot of dragons and half-dragons died under that spell, there isn't any hint that he (or anyone) could resist to it.

It's never mentioned that the spell kills Undead...:wink:

I posted a theory a while back that Girard might be *just* paranoid enough to decide that he should oversee the defences himself, even after his own death.

Just a theory, nothing more.

[RMS Oceanic]

Seriously now, is there *any* defense worth something in this zigurrat?

Defenses are more effective when they're actually manned by someone.

[factotum]

Defenses are more effective when they're actually manned by someone.

Thinking about it, that's one way in which Dorukan's Gate defences were superior to the others--his *did* work even after he, and 99% of his staff, were dead and gone. Lirian, Soon and Girard all relied on defences that required people, although I suppose Soon's plan to have the *dead* Sapphire Guard members defend his certainly helped... :smallwink:

[Severus Drape]

Defenses are more effective when they're actually manned by someone.

The very idea of a booby trap is to lay in wait for the victim to come, not to have an attendant constantly overseeing it so that it doesn't suck.
This trap didn't even manage to stop a mid-level B rank villain and got easily snuffed out by a cleric with terrible CL adjustement who couldn't even dispel Durkon.

[ralphmerridew]

Haley was the leader of a faction of the Azure City resistance for many months. So she is better known and trusted than any of the other OOTS members save Roy himself. And I note it isn't Hinjo sending (who would probably send to Roy) but someone else.

Trusted by members of the resistance, yes, which consists solely of Niu now, and Niu's not doing the sending.

[Hopeless]

The sixth panel is basically
:nale: "Did you let me walk into this death trap?"
"Yes"
He's got to be at least pseudo onto things if he's aware enough to ask that question

I pictured Malack quiping back,"Isn't detecting traps your job?":smalltongue:

[pendell]

Well.

I'm anxious for Xykon to pop up, mistake the Linear Guild for the Order, and just straight-up obliterate them. Nothing would make me happier than to see that overpowered, plot-armored group of jackholes reduced to a smoldering heap, no matter who was responsible for it.

AMEN!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[talkamancer]

Well.

I'm anxious for Xykon to pop up, mistake the Linear Guild for the Order, and just straight-up obliterate them. Nothing would make me happier than to see that overpowered, plot-armored group of jackholes reduced to a smoldering heap, no matter who was responsible for it.

I'd like to see Count Durkular escape with his "undead" life though.

[SlyJohnny]

In this case, the question is: how did he managed to survive the Familicide? A lot of dragons and half-dragons died under that spell, there isn't any hint that he (or anyone) could resist to it.

My personal theory is that Draketooth is a lich. Faking his own death is what his character archetype does. Then we get to see a showdown between him and Xykon, and Xykon will probably win with another philosophical titbit on what power really is.

[Roland Itiative]

Xykon teleporting in 3... 2...

[stsasser]

The strip did advance the plot, but really didn't have a punchline at the end.

The expression on Haley's face in the last panel is the sight-gag punchline.

[luc258]

Out of interest: do clerics/wizards/sorcerers get a bonus to recognize magical traps or is that something only rogues can do reliably?

[zimmerwald1915]

Out of interest: do clerics/wizards/sorcerers get a bonus to recognize magical traps or is that something only rogues can do reliably?
Only Rogues can use the Search skill to locate traps with a DC higher than 20; this includes all magical traps. Casters can use detect magic to determine the location, kind, and strength of various magical auras, and can deduce they're looking at a trap, but the spell doesn't tell them that they're looking at a trap, only that there's latent magic in front of them. Stronger divinations like arcane sight can do this more reliably and more quickly, though they still can't tell the caster outright that they're looking at a trap.

[raymundo]

I have a bad feeling that the next strip will be named something along the lines of "Porting In"

[Tragak]

I would SO like to see Malack and Nale go at it...:smallbiggrin: Here you go :smallbiggrin: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html)

[redbeard]

All this bit about how bad the defenses are, when we had the impression that Draketooth was pretty crafty. Yeah, he counted on his family staffing those defenses - still.

Now, maybe it was all ego.

But on the other hand, what if it is all misdirection, a ploy in the first place (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html).

so that's one question.


Here's another:
Remember this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) - did we ever find out what that was?

I'm betting it's scrying from Serini, as she is notified of the party's arrival when the meet the first decoy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html).

I'm betting that Serini will also be sending something to help defend the gate, as by now she's found out that Draketooth is out of the picture.

[SaintRidley]

Here's another:
Remember this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) - did we ever find out what that was?

I'm betting it's scrying from Serini, as she is notified of the party's arrival when the meet the first decoy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html).

I'm betting that Serini will also be sending something to help defend the gate, as by now she's found out that Draketooth is out of the picture.

That scrying eye was Zz'dtri, the drow who's hanging out with Nale right now.

[Skull the Troll]

Unless Haley is the only one who can see it because it is being sent to her...no one else seems to be reacting. :smallconfused:

Which would suggest that it was the resistance, not Hinjo contacting her, as she was the former leader. They would likely contact her and not belkar because you know.. he's Belkar.

[Lorcan]

I suspect we will only get Haley's distillation of the message, rather than having to listen to it twice. (For the best) It will be interesting if she tells the Azurite about the current situation, or just acknowledges receipt of info.

As for the choice of target for the Sending, if you aren't willing to make an actual argument for why Haley is an illogical choice for Hinjo to send to, then that part of the discussion is getting just silly. They clearly made that choice, there have certainly been a number of possible reasons put forward for that choice, and unless we get a specific mention that this is a second try Sending there is no reason to think that she wasn't their first choice. In my view both Haley and Roy are good choices for a target, so I'm not about to start criticizing Hinjo and his squad for it.

Cheers,
L.

[SaintRidley]

Which would suggest that it was the resistance, not Hinjo contacting her, as she was the former leader. They would likely contact her and not belkar because you know.. he's Belkar.

Umm, what resistance would that be? Because Niu is the Azure City Resistance right now, and that's not Niu.

[hamishspence]

Niu sent a message to Hinjo here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html

maybe this is whoever Hinjo's got to forward the message to the Order?

[Syncrogti]

Well, not with two vampires along. The neck however is another matter.

That is the joke I was looking for.

And Wow! So much to be revealed in the next strip or two, can't wait.

[Goosefeather]

An alternative title for this strip might be 'Red Alert' :smalltongue:

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

So it looks like it's just been a few hours or at most a day since 833.

[ellindsey]

I notice that potion he drank didn't quite heal all of Nale's damage, he's still got the one large mark across the torso. He'll be going into the next confrontation down some hit points.

[Deepbluediver]

I'm anxious for Xykon to pop up, mistake the Linear Guild for the Order, and just straight-up obliterate them. Nothing would make me happier than to see that overpowered, plot-armored group of jackholes reduced to a smoldering heap, no matter who was responsible for it.

I've said it before: evil-vs.-evil battles are the best, because they play dirty, get viscious, and hold nothing back. Heroes are all "honor" and "mercy", but you get two (or more!) totally reprehensible individuals going at it, and you can bet the fireworks are gonna fly.

That being said, I suspect the likely sequence of events is that Nale and Z get killed, Malack mist-forms back up to big T, and either they decide dealing with a lich isn't worth it, or Tarquin tries to arrange some sort of deal (Xykon could use another evil-horde that's already on this side of the ocean).

[Xenrei]

:elan: Dunh dunh DUNH!!!

[Burner28]

Great strip.

[Sky_Schemer]

There was a big list of all the spells the Draketooths needed to maintain. I wasn't able to find any of them in the standard wizard/sorcerer spell list, but the Order said they were mostly high-end phantasms.

The quote was "they were keeping this whole canyon blanketed with high-end phantasms and stuff". There's no "mostly" in there, and note she is only referring to the canyon.

The pyramid is also filled with a number of traps that do physical damage that were hidden by illusions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html), all of which work perfectly well on undead.

The big problem, as has been pointed out time and time again, is that the gate's defenses depended on the Draketooths being alive. They all died at exactly the same time with no warning due to a rather singular event that they could not possibly prepare for. Is it a still a weakness? Sure. But you can't defend against every possible scenario.


Also, any illusions that need to be maintained are non-epic anyways. Probably not a big deal to Xykon.

There's not much that is a big deal to Xykon. That's kind of a central theme in this story.

[Kish]

Also, any illusions that need to be maintained are non-epic anyways. Probably not a big deal to Xykon.
Rich said that Girard didn't have the Epic Spellcasting feat at all, so...there are no epic illusions here.

[angry_bear]

I wonder what the odds are of Tarquin chatting up Xykon right now are... Seems like it'd make the most sense, trying to set Xykon up as a puppet and run things through him. It's kind of his thing at this point after all. Especially since, if he's reluctant to square off against Roy, he's sure as heck not going to want to fight a high powered sorcerer like Xykon.

I don't think Girard's alive, but there is more than likely some sort of fail safe in the gate room. How effective it'll be against two vampires, I don't know. As far as illusions go in D&D, they've always had major holes in defense when it comes to Undead and other non living opponents.

[Sky_Schemer]

I can't help but shake the feeling that Girard isn't dead. Did they ever really confirm if the skeleton under the statue really was him? It think the dead Draketooth's statement "beneath his own feet" referred to further beneath the statues feet, deeper in the pyramid, perhaps in that circular pillar in the room the Order is currently in

Given that it's been at least a fortnight since the Draketooths died, an event that I am sure a living Girard would have noticed, I have trouble imagining a scenario where he'd leave his gate undefended in this state,

[One Skunk Todd]

Kind of surprised at Roy's reaction to the LG getting ahead of them. I know they're pretty weak and all right now but still...

[EmperorSarda]

Kind of surprised at Roy's reaction to the LG getting ahead of them. I know they're pretty weak and all right now but still...

Cause the Linear Guild can't do anything with the Gate. And if you approach from behind you get a sneak attack...

[Water_Bear]

Cause the Linear Guild can't do anything with the Gate. And if you approach from behind you get a sneak attack...

A surprise round. Only Haley gets Sneak Attack damage.[/Pedant]

But yeah, I like where this is going. OotS v LG, Nale v Vampires, Team Evil v OotS/LG, Tarquin v Meteor Swarm; pretty much any possible match-up now has a lot of fun possibility.

[EmperorSarda]

A surprise round. Only Haley gets Sneak Attack damage.[/Pedant]


Yeah, and with the surprise round her arrows are more than enough to take down the drow.

[GameJudge]

Niu didn't need a reply from Hinjo, she was well aware that he would probably be unable to describe her (there is no indication that the characters see the sender, and d20srd is ambiguous about it).

The reveal in this strip:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0336.html

hinges upon the receiver being able to hear the Sender's actual voice and see him. Regardless of the actual rules, in OOTS, Senders can be seen.

[Ghosty]

Ian Starshine is overdue for an appearance. :smalltongue: He might have made friends with the Draketooth's in some capacity (friends in low places, as it were).

I agree with you on Ian and also wonder why he hasn't shown up yet. I'd think him telling Belkar that he was "sterile as a mule (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0784.html)" for the last ten years would have some narrative application. I'm sure it's been guessed already, but I think he's either had a fling with a Draketooth, who couldn't conceive from it due to his sterility, or he's actually a distaff Draketooth himself. Either way, I can see him figuring out where the red-headed temptress came from, and I can't think of a more obscure place for him to go run and hide. The canyon (and pyramid)'s shielded from a lot of divination (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html), after all. Unlike most of the rest of the desert, I imagine.

But, but, what about Familicide? Wouldn't it have killed Ian if he was a Draketooth? Though, hasn't Ian (and Uncle Geoff) spent the last several years within an Anti-Magic Zone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0768.html)? Now, I know Familicide is ridiculously overpowered, and can do whatever the Giant wants, basically, but is it possible that it can't penetrate an A-M Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm)? And if so, if Ian were within the cells, which are within the A-M Zone, couldn't he have ridden out the Familicide effects?

Apologies if you guys have already covered this, way back in the discussion of #768.

As for the traps and overall defense of the pyramid, I too find the circle trap a bit under-powered for this stage of the dungeon. Shouldn't they be death traps at this point? Or at least, even with Evasion, do enough damage that Nale can't heal most of the damage with a single potion?

Edit: Oh, as for the Sending, Xykon could be there at the pyramid any second. We know that RC snuffed the Resistance and talked with Xykon pretty much within the same hour. They then went to the Astral Plane. At that time, Niu tried to get to where she could send her Sending to Hinjo. Assuming she was able to send her spell contemporaneously with the Earthquake, and Hinjo immediately broke contact with the carrion crawlers and had his cleric send her Sending to Haley, the most lead time the Order has on Xykon is however long it takes for RC to cast whatever spells Xykon wants. Which would take, what? A day to Rest + casting time, max? Any delay in Niu getting out to Send or Hinjo retreating to Send, eats into that day + casting time. So I expect X by now, or duking it out with Team Tarq.

[Severus Drape]

The big problem, as has been pointed out time and time again, is that the gate's defenses depended on the Draketooths being alive. They all died at exactly the same time with no warning due to a rather singular event that they could not possibly prepare for. Is it a still a weakness? Sure. But you can't defend against every possible scenario
It was weak from the start, as you don't build your entire defenses on the premise that the low/medium level guards are alive to activate them.
Familicide dealt with this in a powerful way, but there were lots of other means the same could have happened (poison, disease spreading, stealth attack, strong invading army trouncing the defenders).

[Sir_Leorik]

Random theory: maybe the sending is to Haley because they had tried to send to Roy before and he wasn't responsive (still caught in the illusion). So now they're trying the other members of the Order.

(Which would be a bad sign, because it would put even more time in between Xykon's departure and the Order's forewarning.)


This is the most logical suggestion I've seen for why Haley was the target of this sending. Sending has a ten minute casting time, and if the clerics tried reaching Roy (possibly multiple times) and got no answer, they may have decided to try contacting Haley, Roy's second in command, next.

[Deepbluediver]

It was weak from the start, as you don't build your entire defenses on the premise that the low/medium level guards are alive to activate them.
Familicide dealt with this in a powerful way, but there were lots of other means the same could have happened (poison, disease spreading, stealth attack, strong invading army trouncing the defenders).

I'd like to see how you designed a defensive system then. The whole point of having a stronghold with prepared defenses is that it acts as a force-multiplier, allowing a smaller number of defenders to keep a much larger offensive group at bay.

Having epic-level stuff ready to fight off epic-level threats would be nice, but getting an epic level character in the first place is pretty difficult.

[Sky_Schemer]

It was weak from the start, as you don't build your entire defenses on the premise that the low/medium level guards are alive to activate them.

Wow. Seriously? What military strategies have you been reading?

A manned defense is always better than an unmanned defense because an unmanned defense cannot defend against the unknown. Living people can adapt to fluid situations, formulate new tactics and plans, go for help, come up with brilliant ideas, wait to strike at opportune times, and so on.

People don't realize just how dangerous this place really was when the Draketooths were alive. This insistence that Girard have deadly traps to account for every possible scenario is unreasonable. The guy only had so many resources. His "mistake" was keeping it all in the family, if you can call it a mistake. How could he possibly have known what would happen with V?

[Severus Drape]

I'd like to see how you designed a defensive system then. The whole point of having a stronghold with prepared defenses is that it acts as a force-multiplier, allowing a smaller number of defenders to keep a much larger offensive group at bay.
The whole point of the zigurrat was to have a dungeon filled with traps hidden through many layers of illusions and deceptions, a deadly combination.
But then we're shown that, regardless of the lack of camouflage, the traps themselves are so lackluster they can't even damage/inconvenience mid-level adventurers. They *are* weak, familicide or not.
Hell, that pitfall trap didn't even have spikes at the bottom. :smallsigh:


Wow. Seriously? What military strategies have you been reading?

A manned defense is always better than an unmanned defense because an unmanned defense cannot defend against the unknown. Living people can adapt to fluid situations, formulate new tactics and plans, go for help, come up with brilliant ideas, wait to strike at opportune times, and so on.
...Yeah. That's, like, not my point.
Of course having manned defenses is better, but you don't build an entire trap-based dungeon and then leave it completely void of autonomy and riddled with lame traps that need people to have any serious effect.
Indiana Jones would laugh at that all day.


This insistence that Girard have deadly traps to account for every possible scenario is unreasonable.
What deadly traps? :smallconfused:
Between the "moderately escapable hallway" and the "dispel to pass or get some damage" marked line I don't remember much worth of mention.

[Sky_Schemer]

This is the most logical suggestion I've seen for why Haley was the target of this sending. Sending has a ten minute casting time, and if the clerics tried reaching Roy (possibly multiple times) and got no answer, they may have decided to try contacting Haley, Roy's second in command, next.

Agreed.

I think the more pertinent question is, why are Azurites so tiny when in a sending? :smallbiggrin:

[Ghosty]

Given that it's been at least a fortnight since the Draketooths died, an event that I am sure a living Girard would have noticed, I have trouble imagining a scenario where he'd leave his gate undefended in this state,

Perhaps he's under the influence of a Temporal Stasis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/temporalStasis.htm) or similar spell? Sort of a "In case of Emergency, Break Seal, Get Epic Illusionist," type safeguard. But one that requires a pyramid defender to activate. No defender; no one to hit the Alarm! rune.

Or, I guess the lotus-eater runes could be crafted with enough artificial intelligence to activate him if they perceive a threat. The explosive trap in the desert operated in a similar manner. Someone in the previous strip's discussion thread mentioned the lotus-eater trap potentially having the capability to interrogate the subject, determine their intentions towards the Gate, and crafting responses depending on those intentions. As noted earlier, maybe the circle trap is actually a tripwire, and one of the effects is to 'wake' Girard?

Anyway, under the spell, no time passes for him. And,
The creature does not grow older. Its body functions virtually cease, and no force or effect can harm it. [Emphasis added]

So that's another way he could have dodged Familicide, assuming the Giant allowed Familicide to be stymied by Temporal Stasis/Imprisonment.

[Sky_Schemer]

...Yeah. That's, like, not my point.
Of course having manned defenses is better, but you don't build an entire trap-system dungeon and then leave it completely void of autonomy and riddled with lame traps that need people to have any serious effect.
Indiana Jones would laugh at that all day.


Why would they make a dungeon under the assumption that they would all be dead?



What deadly traps? :smallconfused:
Between the "moderately escapable hallway" and the "dispel to pass or get some damage" marked line I don't remember much worth of mention.

*sighs* Traps that would have been covered by illusions in a maze of twisty passages that all look alike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html) and surrounded by living Draketooths.

You are blaming them for having weak defenses because, I dunno, 80% of its defenses are just gone. Do you understand how ridiculous that argument is? "Wow! This place is really undefended without its defenses!" Well, duh.

[Severus Drape]

Why would they make a dungeon under the assumption that they would all be dead?
They wouldn't.
I didn't say this either.


*sighs* Traps that would have been covered by illusions in a maze of twisty passages that all look alike... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html)

You are blaming them for having weak defenses because, I dunno, 80% of its defenses are just gone. Do you understand how ridiculous that argument is? "Wow! This place is really undefended without its defenses!" Well, duh.

I'm blaming the traps for being anything but deadly, not the defenses in general. Please attain to my arguments.

[Sir_Leorik]

I think the more pertinent question is, why are Azurites so tiny when in a sending? :smallbiggrin:

Artistic license. The description of the Sending spell only says that it targets one creature that the caster knows (or has a reasonable description of), and lets the caster send a 25 word message to the target. Sending is from the Evocation school, not the Illusion or Divination schools; the little pictures are to let the readers know who's casting the spell.

[Tragak]

I'm blaming the traps for being anything but deadly, not the defenses in general. Please attain to my arguments. When the defenses (illusions, people maintaining them...) were up, the traps didn't need to be deadly.

[Sky_Schemer]

Perhaps he's under the influence of...

Or, I guess the lotus-eater runes could be crafted ...

So that's another way he could ....

I love crazy theories as much as the next person, but I'm going to go with "things are as they seem" on this one.

[TRH]

When the defenses (illusions, people maintaining them...) were up, the traps didn't need to be deadly.

They didn't need to not be deadly either, though, and we keep going on and on about how paranoid the Draketooths were, so why not go all out with the traps? Honestly, the only reason that comes to mind is that characters keep getting nailed by them, and the Giant wouldn't want all those characters (or rather, Nale and V) dead yet.

[factotum]

I'd like to see Count Durkular escape with his "undead" life though.

That part is guaranteed, given the prophecies!

[Tragak]

They didn't need to not be deadly either, though, and we keep going on and on about how paranoid the Draketooths were, so why not go all out with the traps? Maybe because they needed to live there too?

[Sky_Schemer]

Artistic license. The description of the Sending spell only says that it targets one creature that the caster knows (or has a reasonable description of), and lets the caster send a 25 word message to the target. Sending is from the Evocation school, not the Illusion or Divination schools; the little pictures are to let the readers know who's casting the spell.

Yeah, but Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html) and Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html) were much bigger.

Clearly the answer is that Azure City only has access to tiny sending spells. Or tiny spellcasters. :smallsmile:

P.S. In 337, it's clear that the recipient can "see" a projection of the sender.

[Severus Drape]

They didn't need to not be deadly either, though, and we keep going on and on about how paranoid the Draketooths were, so why not go all out with the traps? Honestly, the only reason that comes to mind is that characters keep getting nailed by them, and the Giant wouldn't want all those characters (or rather, Nale and V) dead yet.

Apparently they had the money to put up a 10.000 gp betting poll but not enough to get some serious poison chamber/ stone boulder rolling / actually deadly traps.

[EmperorSarda]

That part is guaranteed, given the prophecies!

Actually, only his body is needed to return. Whether it is as vampire Durkon, slain vampire Durkon, or resurrected Durkon; Durkon is at liberty to return to his Dwarven home now.

[Sky_Schemer]

Maybe because they needed to live there too?

This.

One can only assume they had to move around the place to keep the spells up. Having an accident kill you or one of the kids would really suck.

[The_Tentacle]

I'm sure someone already said this, but:

In the second to last panel, Malack gives an evil grin while saying that he won't have to worry about Nale after they secure the gate. This means that Malack will be killing Nale at the end of the mission (regardless of what Tarquin wants [although when Tarquin says "Try to look forward to the end of the mission" somewhere, it seems like he's planning that too]), something many have suspected (this proves that this will happen [at least to me]).

[Ghosty]

Is the fact that the magic from the circle trap is colored green (I.e., not Girard's color) of any significance? Or is it just to indicate that the effect is just some generic magical lightning?

For a minute there, I thought Zz'idri had blasted Nale over some slight...

Edit: Having read The Tentacle's post preceding mine, if Tarq wants Nale dead too, then why did they bring Nale along to the pyramid? We don't seriously think that Nale could have held out what he knew from a high priest of a death god and the supreme leader of an evil empire? I think they could have cracked Nale really quickly, if that's what Tarq wanted. So, there has to be another reason why Tarq is playing along with Nale.

I have thought that Tarq will contrive to allow Nale to escape, and do it in such a way that Malack will feel responsible for letting Nale slip away.

[Severus Drape]

This.

One can only assume they had to move around the place to keep the spells up. Having an accident kill you or one of the kids would really suck.

Not really. If you put up a trap, the first thing you know is how to avoid or disable it, and certainly you don't let kids around the Doomsday Gate chambers.
Besides, how much HP would a little kid have anyway? These traps may have still been deadly to them.

Hell, we can only hope they were at least able to kill a kid :smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Leorik]

I'm blaming the traps for being anything but deadly, not the defenses in general. Please attain to my arguments.

The traps alone were not designed to be deadly. The traps combined with
mirage arcana (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirageArcana.htm) spells to make hallways appear identical (including the ones with the rune traps), screen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/screen.htm) spells to make the pyramid appear like featureless desert to enemy scriers, and various illusion spells to hide the pits, traps and doors from intruders. The Draketooth family had a daily schedule for casting the illusions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html), which they divided among the family members so the lower level casters could have slots available for offensive spells. Finally, the goal of the Lotus Eater runes was to get an enemy who got so close to the innermost sanctum in a vulnerable situation where they could be subject to a coup de grace.

The only weakness in all this was that Girard's paranoia led him to eschew the help of the rest of the Order of the Scribble, or even anyone else he wasn't related to by blood. So when a single catastrophe occurred that killed everyone in his bloodline in a single round, the pyramid was left defenseless. If Draketooth's clan included mercenaries, loyal retainers, sentient golems, or even an Eladrin or two, there would have been someone to try to keep intruders out.

[Sir_Leorik]

Yeah, but Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html) and Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html) were much bigger.

Clearly the answer is that Azure City only has access to tiny sending spells. Or tiny spellcasters. :smallsmile:

P.S. In 337, it's clear that the recipient can "see" a projection of the sender.

It's still artistic license. Nothing in the spell description says how the recipient knows who's casting the spell, so Rich is using a visual and auditory representation. The target of the spell is still the only person who sees and hears the sending spell's effects, as shown multiple times (Redcloak even lampshades that fact in SoD).

[Severus Drape]

The traps alone were not designed to be deadly.
And why would that be? :smallconfused:

[Ron Miel]

I'm blaming the traps for being anything but deadly, not the defenses in general. Please attain to my arguments.

Has it occurred to you that the traps aren't meant to be deadly, they are meant to restrain someone until they can be dealt with.

[Ghosty]

So, Sir_Leorik, I get that your explanation explains why the traps at the beginning of the pyramid, or in the hallway, weren't insta-killers, but you've just stated that this is "close to the innermost sanctum." Traps that are close to the main treasure rooms of a typical dungeon, are usually lethal traps. 'Save or dies', that sort of thing. Hasn't that been your experience when you've played D&D?

The trap that zapped Nale didn't look like it seriously inconvenienced him, never mind put him at risk of death. He looked a lot worse after sucking on the Harm from Malack. Considering the traps on the door to the lotus-eater corridor included Meteor Swarm, I'd just expect a trap near what we are supposed to think is the Holy of Holies to have a little more mustard on it, that's all.

[Saturosian]

As for why Haley got the sending, I don't think it's that odd that they would try contacting her first. After all, she (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Azurite_Resistance) was (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0511.html) a little involved (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0533.html) in the resistance. It makes sense to me that they might contact her first, since she was most involved and probably knew a lot of the people who are gone now. Of course, they could have tried Roy first, too, and failed. Voilà my two cents.

[Sir_Leorik]

When the defenses (illusions, people maintaining them...) were up, the traps didn't need to be deadly.

I think that it was more that the traps were made deadlier by the illusions. Traps cost money; the deadlier and harder to find a trap is the more it costs. By using illusions the Draketooth clan were able to save money on the pyramid's construction without having to cut out thematic portions of the dungeon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0047.html), or have portions of the dungeon be strucurally unsound (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html) or have insufficient safeguards for the Gate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html)

[Severus Drape]

I think that it was more that the traps were made deadlier by the illusions. Traps cost money; the deadlier and harder to find a trap is the more it costs. By using illusions the Draketooth clan were able to save money on the pyramid's construction without having to cut out thematic portions of the dungeon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0047.html), or have portions of the dungeon be strucurally unsound (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html) or have insufficient safeguards for the Gate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html)

And yet they had the luxury of leaving 10000GP taking dust in their betting pool.

[Sir_Leorik]

So, Sir_Leorik, I get that your explanation explains why the traps at the beginning of the pyramid, or in the hallway, weren't insta-killers, but you've just stated that this is "close to the innermost sanctum." Traps that are close to the main treasure rooms of a typical dungeon, are usually lethal traps. 'Save or dies', that sort of thing. Hasn't that been your experience when you've played D&D?

Depends on how sadistic the DM and/or author of the adventure I was playing in was. "Save or die" spells/effects (and their slightly less unpopular cousin, "save or suck" spells/effects) are unpopular for a reason, and were specifically toned down in 4E for good reasons. In addition, most spells from the illusion school aren't "save or die" (Phantasmal Killer and Wierd are the big exceptions.) While the Draketooth's didn't use illusions exclusively, they preferred to use misdirection and subtlety to steer intruders away from the center of the pyramid. By the time intruders might reach the hexagonal chamber, they would have been subject to multiple pit traps, sliding doors (to split groups up), summoned hellhounds, meteor swarm traps (on doors that looked like they were not trapped) and the Lotus Eater rune traps (on each of six corridors leading to the hexagonal chamber).

If the Draketooth clan took after Girard, then many of them might have had levels of Ranger, Rogue or Fighter, to complement their Sorcerer levels. Sneaking up on victims of the runes, they might try to coup de grace them; the might use guerilla tactics against a fighter or barbarian separated from the party cleric or druid; they would use illusionary monsters to get the wizard or sorcerer to waste spells (possibly tossing in a Shadow Monster to mix things up); and they would target rogues trying to disable traps with illusions to make them think they succeeded.

Its not a fool proof plan. Undead are immune to some illusion spells/effects, and mindless undead are immune to all of them. However most illusions don't trigger Spell Resistance. Phantasms, which attack a target's mind, are one of the main exceptions to that rule. There are gaps in the Draketooths' defenses, but they could have been avoided if Girard weren't the paranoid loon he was.

[EmperorSarda]

Edit: Having read The Tentacle's post preceding mine, if Tarq wants Nale dead too, then why did they bring Nale along to the pyramid? We don't seriously think that Nale could have held out what he knew from a high priest of a death god and the supreme leader of an evil empire? I think they could have cracked Nale really quickly, if that's what Tarq wanted. So, there has to be another reason why Tarq is playing along with Nale.


Nale is only along for the ride because he knows who has the ritual to "control" the Snarl. And since Nale knows Xykon personally, as compared to Tarquin or Malack, it is that much easier to contact him. Well... theoretically. Coister will prevents that currently.


And yet they had the luxury of leaving 10000GP taking dust in their betting pool.
They did also empty coffers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0816.html) with their baby taking. They probably needed the money.

[tomandtish]

Cause the Linear Guild can't do anything with the Gate. And if you approach from behind you get a sneak attack...

Roy’s relief expression may also be due to the fact that in a fight they are at a serious disadvantage. They are down three (V is missing, Durkon is now with the enemy, and if Belkar gets winded just running behind the wall then he’s effectively out of it). On the face of it, the odds are heavily against them. This is how I interpret it.


My personal theory is that Draketooth is a lich. Faking his own death is what his character archetype does. Then we get to see a showdown between him and Xykon, and Xykon will probably win with another philosophical titbit on what power really is.

Of course, if he is a lich technically he didn’t fake his death…. :smallbiggrin:

[F.Harr]

I think they're still in trouble.

[Severus Drape]

They did also empty coffers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0816.html) with their baby taking. They probably needed the money.
Who doesn't? :smallconfused:

[Sir_Leorik]

And yet they had the luxury of leaving 10000GP taking dust in their betting pool.

I never said Girard was a completely rational person. He clearly wasn't; he's paranoid, holds pointless grudges and was just as responsible for the collapse of the Order of the Scribble as Dorukan and Soon were. You're right, Girard and his cronies (who may have been his siblings or the oldest of his children) expected Soon to break his oath, and they all chipped into the pot, which probably grew bigger over the decades as no paladins came to look for the Gate at the fake location. (Alternatively, after Girard died one of the more level headed members of the Draketooth family may have said "Enough" and put the money from the betting pool into the family's petty cash fund.)

Girard Draketooth was a very flawed man. But his flaws don't come from his family's tactics with illusions, choice of spells or decisions on how to waste their money. They come from Girard's ego, paranoia and Chaotic alignment clashing with Soon's ego, honor and Lawful alignment. I find it astonishing that Girard and Soon managed to adventure as long as they did without killing each other. My impression from the Order of the Scribble's backstory is that until Kraagor died fighting the Snarl in their climactic battle, Soon didn't have that many problems with Dorukan, but Girard and Soon were clashing already. Kraagor's death (and Dorukan's feelings that Soon sacrificed an ally, something the wizard felt Lawful Good heroes like Soon and himself shouldn't do) led Dorukan to side with Girard, which he might not have otherwise done.

The damage having been done, the five Gates were left with gaping flaws in their defenses that would have been compensated for if the group had collaborated rather than disbanding. And the sad part of the story is that Serini's call to disband the group was the best possible outcome; the alternative would have been a three-way death match between Girard, Soon, and Dorukan plus Lirian.

[EmperorSarda]

Roy’s relief expression may also be due to the fact that in a fight they are at a serious disadvantage. They are down three (V is missing, Durkon is now with the enemy, and if Belkar gets winded just running behind the wall then he’s effectively out of it). On the face of it, the odds are heavily against them. This is how I interpret it.


Yes they are. Which is why I think going for a Sneak Attack, taking out the drow first, would help even the odds.

[Snails]

...Yeah. That's, like, not my point.
Of course having manned defenses is better, but you don't build an entire trap-based dungeon and then leave it completely void of autonomy and riddled with lame traps that need people to have any serious effect.
Indiana Jones would laugh at that all day.

...

What deadly traps? :smallconfused:
Between the "moderately escapable hallway" and the "dispel to pass or get some damage" marked line I don't remember much worth of mention.

What kind of effective autonomous defenses exist that are neither "manned" nor "traps"? Undead can be trivially defeated by high level clerics, and that is not the Draketooths forte. Golems can often be bypassed by illusions. Summoned critters can be blocked by simple spells, and cannot offer genuinely intelligent tactics without direct oversight. Called creatures have limitations based on their contracts, can be dismissed by spells, and this is also not a Draketooth forte.

In 3.x, genuinely lethal traps are expensive. What we see here is the smart way to play it: use the traps to maximize the effectiveness of your low and middling level resources.

What you are imagining would likely be both most expensive and less effective under the usual scenarios. The blood tie is a flaw, but only a minor one against non-Epic magic. Girard did not plan worse than anyone else in that regard.

[Snails]

I find it astonishing that Girard and Soon managed to adventure as long as they did without killing each other.

My guess is that Girard and Soon both respected Kraagor and Serini enough that problems were adequately smoothed over and the the Scribble could stay focused on the Quest. With very bad feelings from Kraagor's death, and the Quest at its completion, 2 of 3 stabilizing factors were suddenly missing when the crisis occurred.

[Corneel]

I think that it was more that the traps were made deadlier by the illusions. Traps cost money; the deadlier and harder to find a trap is the more it costs. By using illusions the Draketooth clan were able to save money on the pyramid's construction without having to cut out thematic portions of the dungeon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0047.html), or have portions of the dungeon be strucurally unsound (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html) or have insufficient safeguards for the Gate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html)
Or maybe that a large number of lower level traps & illusions and other spells is easier to maintain, repair and/or restore by a group of low to mid-level characters than a more limited number of higher level defenses.

[Sylthia]

Is the fact that the magic from the circle trap is colored green (I.e., not Girard's color) of any significance? Or is it just to indicate that the effect is just some generic magical lightning?

For a minute there, I thought Zz'idri had blasted Nale over some slight...

Edit: Having read The Tentacle's post preceding mine, if Tarq wants Nale dead too, then why did they bring Nale along to the pyramid? We don't seriously think that Nale could have held out what he knew from a high priest of a death god and the supreme leader of an evil empire? I think they could have cracked Nale really quickly, if that's what Tarq wanted. So, there has to be another reason why Tarq is playing along with Nale.

I have thought that Tarq will contrive to allow Nale to escape, and do it in such a way that Malack will feel responsible for letting Nale slip away.

It would be less theatrical to off Nale in that way. Tarquin likely would want to kill off his own son more dramatically.

[Solse]

Pretty good banter in this strip.

"As I recall, you were instructed to shut the hell up."
"By whom?"
"By me. Shut the hell up."

[Sir_Leorik]

I'm sure someone already said this, but:

In the second to last panel, Malack gives an evil grin while saying that he won't have to worry about Nale after they secure the gate. This means that Malack will be killing Nale at the end of the mission (regardless of what Tarquin wants [although when Tarquin says "Try to look forward to the end of the mission" somewhere, it seems like he's planning that too]), something many have suspected (this proves that this will happen [at least to me]).

Tarquin doesn't want to kill Nale, but he's not going to go out of his way to save Nale's life either. He may love Nale dearly, but Nale has been a huge disappointment to Tarquin. There's also the long term picture to keep in mind: keeping Malack happy by letting him kill Nale is more important than Tarquin's personal happiness. Tarquin is willing to "take one for the team" by letting his Vampiric Lizardfolk Cleric kill one of his sons. It will be heart-breaking, but Tarquin's still got Elan, and he'll get over Nale eventually. (Especially if Tarquin can convince Sabine to become his fiendish consort. :smallamused:)

But as Tarquin reminded Malack, business comes before pleasure. Just like Tarquin is willing to lose a son to keep the "business" of the Empire going, Malack needs to delay his gratification and work with Nale, at least until Team Tarquin can secure the Gate from the OotS and Team Evil. If that should happen, all bets are off and Nale will become vulnerable to Malack's wrath once more.

But Nale seems to have ordered Starscream's correspondance course "How to remain alive despite betraying your homicidal superior officer(s) in an attempt to usurp his position". (That's Starscream's second best selling course, after "How to betray your homicidal superior officer and usurp his position" and ahead of "So your homicidal superior officer that you betrayed and jettisonned out of an airlock into the void of space in an attempt to usurp his position has returned more powerful than ever before and just blasted you into scrap metal, leaving your disembodied Spark to float through space and time possessing other robots".) If anyone can weasel his way out of the position Nale will be in after this adventure (assuming he's still alive) it would be Nale. (Or Starscream. Never bet against Starscream making a comeback.)

[Snails]

Or maybe that a large number of lower level traps & illusions and other spells is easier to maintain, repair and/or restore by a group of low to mid-level characters than a more limited number of higher level defenses.

Right. Genuinely lethal traps are very expensive in 3.5. If you have only a few, they might eat a foe or two (if you are lucky), but that does not save the Gate. Besides, a small number of traps can be fed summoned or called creatures, and their nature assessed and then bypassed (e.g. it is trivial to ignore fire or poison, if you know they are coming).

[Sir_Leorik]

What you are imagining would likely be both most expensive and less effective under the usual scenarios. The blood tie is a flaw, but only a minor one against non-Epic magic. Girard did not plan worse than anyone else in that regard.

Girard seems to have made the most effort to maximize results while having to use minimal resources. Soon was able to found the Sapphire Guard, who could call upon the resources of the ruler of Azure City, such as tax revenue, soldiers to guard the throne room, etc.

Lirian had the backing of Elves, fey, Good lycanthropes and Treants. Not to mention the Guardian Virus, which was her main ace in the hole.

And Dorukan depended heavily on magical traps, artifacts and Outsiders like Celia. Those are all expensive to build and maintain.

Girard relied on stealing money from wealthy citizens of the Western Continent, but he tried to be as frugal as possible, getting the most "bang" for his gp.

[Xelbiuj]

The meteor swarm, hell hound, and who knows what else trap would have been pretty nasty if it all went off.

Shame Girard couldn't have gotten himself a demonhead statue and sphere of annihilation. :P

[Sir_Leorik]

My guess is that Girard and Soon both respected Kraagor and Serini enough that problems were adequately smoothed over and the the Scribble could stay focused on the Quest. With very bad feelings from Kraagor's death, and the Quest at its completion, 2 of 3 stabilizing factors were suddenly missing when the crisis occurred.

Serini was still there, she just wasn't willing to take sides between her four best friends, so soon after another had just died. If the OotScribble had come to blows, my money is that Lirian would have joined Dorukan's side; she wasn't neutral in this fight. With the OotScribble divided between Soon v. Girard v. Dorukan and Lirian, Serini really had only two options to avoid bloodshed: call for a vote and side with Dorukan (and hope that Girard abides by the results) or call for the party to disband and go their separate ways. There are too many ways that a vote could have been ignored by Girard, or that Soon would have refused to have a vote, since Girard might not abide by the results, or Dorukan might question what to do if there is a tie (2-2-1); Serini's decision is the only one she could have made in those circumstances that ended peacefully.

[Sir_Leorik]

The meteor swarm, hell hound, and who knows what else trap would have been pretty nasty if it all went off.

Shame Girard couldn't have gotten himself a demonhead statue and sphere of annihilation. :P

Acererak patented the Demonheaded Void trap combo. His followers, the Bleak Academy and the Followers of Moil, are fighting over the rights to the patent in Greyhawk Superior Court. Until that gets resolved they're off the market. :smallbiggrin:

[luc258]

So, Roy's strategy for the moment seems to be to wait till Nale and Malack fight?
That's not too bad given the situation, the LG should not to be able to do anything bad with the portal without a lot of time to study it.

[F.Harr]

I never said Girard was a completely rational person. He clearly wasn't; he's paranoid, holds pointless grudges and was just as responsible for the collapse of the Order of the Scribble as Dorukan and Soon were. You're right, Girard and his cronies (who may have been his siblings or the oldest of his children) expected Soon to break his oath, and they all chipped into the pot, which probably grew bigger over the decades as no paladins came to look for the Gate at the fake location. (Alternatively, after Girard died one of the more level headed members of the Draketooth family may have said "Enough" and put the money from the betting pool into the family's petty cash fund.)

Girard Draketooth was a very flawed man. But his flaws don't come from his family's tactics with illusions, choice of spells or decisions on how to waste their money. They come from Girard's ego, paranoia and Chaotic alignment clashing with Soon's ego, honor and Lawful alignment. I find it astonishing that Girard and Soon managed to adventure as long as they did without killing each other. My impression from the Order of the Scribble's backstory is that until Kraagor died fighting the Snarl in their climactic battle, Soon didn't have that many problems with Dorukan, but Girard and Soon were clashing already. Kraagor's death (and Dorukan's feelings that Soon sacrificed an ally, something the wizard felt Lawful Good heroes like Soon and himself shouldn't do) led Dorukan to side with Girard, which he might not have otherwise done.

The damage having been done, the five Gates were left with gaping flaws in their defenses that would have been compensated for if the group had collaborated rather than disbanding. And the sad part of the story is that Serini's call to disband the group was the best possible outcome; the alternative would have been a three-way death match between Girard, Soon, and Dorukan plus Lirian.

That is very-well worked-out. I suspect everyone put their issues aside for the greater good until the GG was fully served and they had a death to morn, one that could be pinned on someone's choices.


The meteor swarm, hell hound, and who knows what else trap would have been pretty nasty if it all went off.

Shame Girard couldn't have gotten himself a demonhead statue and sphere of annihilation. :P

Yeah, shame.

"So, Roy's strategy for the moment seems to be to wait till Nale and Malack fight?

"That's not too bad given the situation, the LG should not to be able to do anything bad with the portal without a lot of time to study it."

Roy's got an illusionist to help with that. Should he think of it.

[littlebum2002]

I realize that this is just another problem stemming from the fact that D&D (and by extension OOTS) is a fictional universe created not to make sense from a logical point of view, but to make a game fun, but...


Does it bother anyone else that the "25 word" rule by sendings can be circumvented by using contractions? Technically, "wouldn't" is really two words: "would" and "not". However, the universe (ignoring for the moment the question of how the universe counts words) allows you to combine multiple words into one to circumvent the rule. Since this is the case, how come a style of talking has not been invented in this universe similar to that used to write telegrams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_style), so that more can be said withing the 25 word confines of a sending?

[One Skunk Todd]

Out of right field, my brain can't stop wondering what Tsukiko would have thought of Malack.

[WalkingTarget]

I realize that this is just another problem stemming from the fact that D&D (and by extension OOTS) is a fictional universe created not to make sense from a logical point of view, but to make a game fun, but...


Does it bother anyone else that the "25 word" rule by sendings can be circumvented by using contractions? Technically, "wouldn't" is really two words: "would" and "not". However, the universe (ignoring for the moment the question of how the universe counts words) allows you to combine multiple words into one to circumvent the rule. Since this is the case, how come a style of talking has not been invented in this universe similar to that used to write telegrams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_style), so that more can be said withing the 25 word confines of a sending?

Heh. I know one group (the members of the Critical Hit podcast) that tend to use Twitter as their Sending limit (they rarely run into the 25-word limit anyway). They'll actually tweet to each other when they cast it.

[SteveMB]

Is the fact that the magic from the circle trap is colored green (I.e., not Girard's color) of any significance? Or is it just to indicate that the effect is just some generic magical lightning?

Any of the Draketooths might have set that trap (family members wouldn't necessarily have the same magic color; Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html) and Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html) don't).

[One Skunk Todd]

And now I'm thinking the small room has steps down into the other (inverted) half of the pyramid, so the whole structure is actually shaped like a D8.

[Smolder]

I'm sure someone already said this, but:

In the second to last panel, Malack gives an evil grin while saying that he won't have to worry about Nale after they secure the gate. This means that Malack will be killing Nale at the end of the mission (regardless of what Tarquin wants [although when Tarquin says "Try to look forward to the end of the mission" somewhere, it seems like he's planning that too]), something many have suspected (this proves that this will happen [at least to me]).

That's really the only way for Nale to go out, narratively speaking. He's Elan's nemesis and a long time antagonist. I don't think Elan would kill his brother, and he would escape jail easily. So that leaves C) he get's trounced by an even Bigger Bad to prove their bigger badness. And although Malack is first in line, I don't think for a minute that T is above doing it himself.

[Gift Jeraff]

That's really the only way for Nale to go out, narratively speaking. He's Elan's nemesis and a long time antagonist. I don't think Elan would kill his brother, and he would escape jail easily. So that leaves C) he get's trounced by an even Bigger Bad to prove their bigger badness. And although Malack is first in line, I don't think for a minute that T is above doing it himself.

Except the comic has been continuously shoving down our throats that "Tarquin is he embodiment of awesomeness and Nale is the epitome of lameness" and Malack killed a PC, so I don't see how killing him shows that they're the Bigger Bad.

No, Nale topping someone who has been built up like Malack or Tarquin would provide a bigger narrative sting.

[Kislath]

My predictions:

1-- Ian Starshine is dead. That's why Haley got the Sending.

2-- Malack eventually turns Nale into a vampire thrall, enslaving and torturing him for ages in retaliation for the deaths of his vamp childers.

[EmperorSarda]

2-- Malack eventually turns Nale into a vampire thrall, enslaving and torturing him for ages in retaliation for the deaths of his vamp childers.

Nah, Malack doesn't seem the type to vampirize someone he hates. The master/thrall condition seems more intimate to him.

[Corneel]

I realize that this is just another problem stemming from the fact that D&D (and by extension OOTS) is a fictional universe created not to make sense from a logical point of view, but to make a game fun, but...


Does it bother anyone else that the "25 word" rule by sendings can be circumvented by using contractions? Technically, "wouldn't" is really two words: "would" and "not". However, the universe (ignoring for the moment the question of how the universe counts words) allows you to combine multiple words into one to circumvent the rule. Since this is the case, how come a style of talking has not been invented in this universe similar to that used to write telegrams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_style), so that more can be said withing the 25 word confines of a sending?
Not to mention that those who speak in English are severely disadvantaged compared to those who speak languages that allow for long composite words (such as the other Germanic languages) or agglutinative languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglutinative_language) (such as Finnish).