(3.5) describing classes to newish players

[Eslin]

I'm trying to get my players out of core at the moment - wizards are too strong and monks are too weak while classes like paladin are only good with optimisation levels the players do not meet.

How would you succinctly (and fairly/accurately) describe your favourite classes? Trying to get across what they're good at and why they're fun without making them read the entire tier system thread.

[Waker]

Do you mean our favorite classes outside of core or in general?

[Eslin]

In general works, though I'm hoping some people will have some outside core stuff. Trying to get players into new classes for a new campaign (one got very, very bored with fighter) and hoping for some descriptions of classes by people who have enjoyed playing them.

[Kazuel]

1: hand them ToB
2: go get an ice cold refreshing Pepsi from the fridge
3: prophet

[prufock]

Factotum: The factotum is the ultimate skill monkey and a jack of all trades that can be competent at pretty much anything, but not all at once. It's an intelligence-based class, and has abilities that refresh per encounter, not per day, meaning you are never left useless. If you like being an extremely capable (mostly) mundane character, this is the class for you.

[Wings of Peace]

ToB Classes: Think the characters in those foreign films with a bunch of fancy attacks they shout out.

Scout: Imagine if sneaking attacking as a rogue wasn't a pain in the ass.

Sha'ir: Visualize if Aladdin was a wizard and weaker version of genie was his familiar.

Factotum: Pretend you're a dungeoneering McGuyver.

[Gerrtt]

I actually started a game for totally new players and helped them make characters by breaking all the core classes down into four categories:

Melee, Caster, Good at Skills, and Hybrid (defined as one or more of the previous three categories)

Then I gave a brief description of what each gets, here's a direct quote from what I wrote for them:

Depending on what you want your character to do, you then make some choices:

A: Fighting with weapons; do I want to be a wild berserker (Barbarian class) a disciplined warrior with a number of tricks (Fighter class), or someone who fights with my bare hands and a variety of spiritual powers like a kung-fu master (Monk class)?

B: Using Magic: do I want to call down the wrath/protection of the gods (Cleric Class), invoke the destructive/restorative powers of nature (Druid Class), channel raw magical energy into flashy displays of power (Sorcerer Class) or represent my character as an intellectual magic user who gains their power through study (Wizard Class)?

C. Using skills: when it comes to skills there are really three classes that do it well, but two of those fall under category d. Which leaves us with the master of skills in the game (Rogue Class). As an added benefit, the rogue gets sneak attack, which allows him to do extra damage to an unprepared foe; he pays for this by being relatively unarmored compared to fighters and paladins.

D Some weird combination of the above: Do you like the thought of being able to weave the power of song into powerful illusion or enchanting magic, as well as being reasonably good with skills and being able to create a number of other beneficial effects for your whole team? Then the Bard Class is right for you. Do you want your character to be skilled in the art of war, but also have access to some nature based magic and skills in their repertoire? Then the Ranger Class could be the right choice. Instead, do you like being the valiant holy knight (complete with a glowing white horse), skilled in battle but also wielding some divine powers of his own? That’d be the Paladin Class.

Because they are so new and because I'm not largely concerned with tiers myself I don't even want to go there. I'm helping them develop their characters because they don't have books and are having a hard time with the SRD, so I can steer them towards/away from ridiculously powerful options as necessary.

That said, they ended up choosing a Druid, a Paladin, a Rogue, and a Sorcerer. In their first session the Druid did end up being the strongest (even though he chose a badger as a companion) and the Rogue ended up being the least effective party member.

[CaladanMoonblad]

1: hand them ToB
2: go get an ice cold refreshing Pepsi from the fridge
3: prophet

I agree with 2 and 3, but would substitute "hand them the available non-core books allowed in the campaign" for step 1.

It is better just to let them read for themselves. Why do more work than you have to? Each class has a description.

Asking for "our description" is just inviting contention; people have their own ideas about class A vs class B.

[Fibinachi]

Druid:

Imagine being able to summon swarms of wolves while you, yourself, is a wolf running at the head of the pack.

Spell thief:

Imagine being able to steal not just mere gold coins, trinkets and baubels but the essence of someone else, their life-force itself - you can steal spells, resistance and abilities while still doing rogue-things!

Warblade:

The paladin is pretty good at fighting. The fighter is a master at arms. You? Were Leonardo Da Vinci used a brush, you use a sword. The things you can do with a piece of sharp metal beggars the mind and blows any two-bit soldier out of the water.

Crusader:

You're on a mission from God and there ain't no stopping someone as dedicated as you. Someone hits you? You're so focused, you don't feel that till next round. Other people have a plan? You've just got inspiration, steel and cajones.

Swordsage:

You've studied the arcane mysteries of weaponcraft. Pondered the meaning of the word "Battle". Meditated upon the usage of a thousand-thousand implements of war. And your conclusion? Killing people is cool, and you are the coolest person around. Ever seen Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? That's you. What character? All of them, at once.

Favored Soul:

The Gods like clerics a lot, and think they're neat. The day you were born, the trees whispered your name (Aaaarthaas), the sun shone a little brighter and whenever you sneeze, someone gets cured of the flu. Other people ask to be blessed, you know you are.

Binder:

Pfah, gods. Pfha, demons. Pfha, elementals.
Reach out to the eldritch mysteries of things the cosmos itself has cast aside and make them give your their powers. Fight like an elemental warlord! Sneak like a thief so good he stole himself from the multiverse! Make pacts with beings beyond your comprehension and do it all without any of all that pesky studying.

Warlock:

Sorcerers are people too cowardly to sell their soul for ultimate power. Other people prepare spells, you just blast enemies round after round after round after round after round after round after round.. And you can fly.
For how long?
Forever, that's how long.

Psion

Killing someone from ten-thousand yards away with mindbullets. Think yourself faster, smarter, better, stronger, and allocate what you want to do when you want to do it not with spells but with easily used power points! Freedom and superior mental faculties, all in one go!

Ozodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153536)

Play Mini-Cthulhu and eat your enemies.

Machinist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262484):

Tesla coils and swords and stabbity-stabbity-stab. Swordmages are cool, but you? You're electrified.

Harrowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188148)

The saying "A darker side" is figurative for some. For you, it's the literal truth of the abominable creation you carry around inside your skull. Luckily, you can siphon power off it to flay your foes alive, cover yourself in flames and, oh yeah, slowly mutate into a creature less human and more twisted mockery of all existence with claws for hands and lashing, long tails.

Swashbuckler:

Wait, what. Seriously? Uh... Uh... You're like Robin Hoods less capable stunt-stand in.

[Eslin]

Ozodrin looks awesome o.0

[GreenETC]

Tome of Battle!
Some people who wield swords are just the local militia, or a hired thug, but you're an adventurer! A hero should have more interesting powers by just using their own abilities, and Tome of Battle introduces three warrior classes that mesh quite nicely into any build, from vikings to war leaders, thanks to the Initiator Level system counting half your levels in other classes, meaning you can still choose high level abilities even if you only have one level in a class. Each class gets specific disciplines of maneuvers they can choose from, and the maneuvers get more powerful and more restricted as the character levels, meaning that specializing on a group will often lead to the best results, with a few cherry picked extras thrown in.

Crusaders are the charismatic hero. They use their personality and drive to take hits and dish them back out, specifically having a Delayed Damage Pool, allowing them to remain standing for a turn even if they're killed. They can even heal their allies in combat, and at higher levels get access to abilities that range from making them immune to dying to allowing them to just make their d20 rolls 11s instead of bothering to roll.

Swordsages are the mystic fighters. They use their Wisdom to give them more AC, like a Monk, and they have the widest selection of maneuvers out of the three classes, meaning they'll always have more options. Unlike the other two Initiators, they're not meant to step up to the front line and take hits, as they're much softer, but in exchange they get a large collection of powers that revolve around surprising their opponents, attacking weak points, or using a foe's attacks to leave them wide open.

Warblades are the zealous warriors. They enjoy showing off, proving how tough they are, and what they can do. they get the smallest number of maneuvers, but they have almost unlimited access to them, letting them hammer away if that's what it takes. On top of this, they use their Intelligence to aid them in fights, giving them bonuses to Reflex saves and even damage. As they level up, Warblades can do things like shrug off status effects, redirect attacks, and even tear their foe limb from limb.

[Der_DWSage]

Beguiler:Be a magical trickster that can baffle anything and everything, has every skill a person could want, all while leaving that pesky 'fighting' stuff to his victims. Er. I said allies. Allies!

Paladin:Er...are you sure? Well, okay then...you're a restricted warrior of the light who can't fight quite as well as the fighter, and occasionally gets big damage on evil things.

Monk:You see this? You're probably thinking you'll be Jackie Chan with this class. No. Go for unarmed Swordsage instead.

Wizard:Are you able to act like a wizard OOCly, gaze over every (D&D) tome, and look for when you'll be able to use the least amount of power to the greatest amount of effect? Use this.

Sorcerer:Or if you're not that guy-have a Wizard friend help you build one of these, and have significantly less bookkeeping while still having PHENOMENAL ARCANE POWER at your fingertips.

Disney Princess: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11017037&postcount=8)Want to break out in song while your animal companion mauls faces? Go right ahead. (Warning! Poorly edited and untouched for two years!)

[Snowbluff]

Monk- Botched lobotomy patient.

Swordsage- one of the few who could have benefited from a lobotomy, but they are more fun without it.

Psychic Warrior- They got a lobotomy, but all they got out of it was a lousy t-shirt. And psychic powers.

[DeusMortuusEst]

ToB Classes: Think the characters in those foreign films with a bunch of fancy attacks they shout out.

Except they don't have to shout. And never have to mention the maneuver names at all, actually.

[RFLS]

Honestly...I'd make them read the tier system thread. It's a great resource for any player.

[Eslin]

It is, but it doesn't really get across how fun the classes are. Warlocks and barbarians are both apparently tier 4, but they're definitely not equal in terms of variety and options.

[Gavinfoxx]

Just only allow these classes:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174628

At least, the ones from the books. That means:

Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Bard, Binder, Shadowcaster, ACFed Druid, Shaman, Spirit Shaman, Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Duskblade, Totemist, Incarnate, Psychic Warrior, Ardent

And let them read the classes! If they have questions, then explain the classes.

[DustyBottoms]

If the fighter is bored, have him go warblade or crusader depending on his flavor for melee. Crusader is tank+buffs, warblade is tank or damage. With flavor.

I personally enjoy the warlock: when the sorcerer runs out of spells, you're still invisible, flying, and blasting. And snaring enemies in tentacles of freezing snaredom.

And the next day later? Still blasting.

http://i.imgur.com/3DGyS.jpg

You get the point. Warlocks are fun for players who want to blast and have a little side dark arcane flavor to it.

[Shining Wrath]

Artificer: you know all those magic items everyone else uses? This is where they came from.

Tome of Battle: Crusader: High Charisma fighter with special Paladin-like powers. Swordsage: High Wisdom fighter with lots of special Monk-like powers. Warblade: High Intelligence fighter with special powers. Probably the most powerful melee class (full BAB and D12 HD).

Psion: Professor X from the X-men.

Dread Necromancer: What it says on the label.

Duskblade: Cast spells through your sword.

[Chronos]

Binder:
There are these entities called "vestiges" that are on the boundary between existing and not existing. You can make deals with one or more of them at a time to gain some of their power each day. Each vestige offers a slate of abilities, most of which are either continually-active, or usable once every five rounds. As you level up, you can bind more vestiges at a time, and more powerful ones.

[Snowbluff]

It is, but it doesn't really get across how fun the classes are. Warlocks and barbarians are both apparently tier 4, but they're definitely not equal in terms of variety and options.

The issue would be with that is that fun is subjective. The tier system is an attempt at an objective system of measurement. :smallwink:

[Illarion]

Generally what I do with my new players is to get them to ignore the books, rules and class mechanics that they think they know and instead to come up with a character concept of something they think would be fun to play. Then, I use the books to create what they want in the confines of the game mechanics, while explaining how it works. Thus the new players aren't limited by what few books they have looked at and can be more creative.

We work back and forth with me suggesting classes, feats, PrCs and such and they get to learn how to build characters from concepts.

[Prime32]

The classes from Tome of Battle represent fighting less abstractly than fighters, barbarians, etc. - rather than being limited to the same attack over and over, the player has access to all the strikes, forms and defences of real swordplay, and can choose the best for the situation. Low-level combat has a swashbuckler feel, and high-level combat resembles something out of a martial arts movie. Maneuvers are divided into nine disciplines, each representing a broad style of combat, and each class has access to different disciplines in different ways.

Warblade: Someone who fights with raw skill, cunning and grit. He doesn't get as many maneuvers as a swordsage, but can use them more efficiently.
Diamond Mind: The thinking man's discipline, based on the Concentration skill. By keeping your focus laser-sharp, you can react in an instant to evade/parry an attack or take advantage of your enemies' openings.
Iron Heart: The discipline representing raw skill and power, based on Balance. Specialises in shrugging off attacks, overwhelming your opponents, and cleaving through multiple enemies in one blow.
Stone Dragon: The juggernaut discipline, based on Balance. Lets you become as tough and unmovable as a mountain, and perform powerful blows which ignore defences, knock enemies down, or damage bones and organs.
Tiger Claw: A discipline of savage, animalistic combat, based on Jump. Focuses on RIP AND TEAR with multiple weapons or your bare hands. Many of its maneuvers give you extra attacks per turn or inflict crippling pain.
White Raven: See crusader

Crusader: A warrior who derives his strength from absolute devotion to a cause. Possibly the best tanking class in the game - not only can he delay the effects of damage, but he gains combat bonuses for doing so. His lower reliance on formal training means his selection of maneuvers is very narrow, but also less rigid - he never has to pause to regain his balance, no matter how long the battle.

Devoted Spirit: The discipline of faith and resolve, based on Intimidate. Specialises in fighting enemies of opposite alignment, making inspiring attacks which heal your allies, and blocking attacks made against you or your allies.
Stone Dragon: See warblade
White Raven: The leadership discipline, based on Diplomacy. Focuses on combination tactics, forcing enemies to focus on you instead of your allies, and letting your allies act more often.

Swordsage: A lightly-armored warrior who devotes his life to the study of martial arts. While he has less practical experience (making it harder for him to adapt to changing situations in combat), his sheer range of maneuvers is enormous. Some swordsages can even use supernatural techniques, like teleporting and shooting fire from their fists.

Desert Wind: A discipline focused on swiftness and agility, based on Tumble. Users can move like flickering flames, and many can even shoot blasts of fire or set their weapons alight (think Avatar: The Last Airbender).
Diamond Mind: See warblade
Setting Sun: A judo-like discipline based on Sense Motive. Focuses on redirecting your enemies' attacks, repositioning yourself and your enemies (mostly by throwing them), and gaining bonuses against creatures larger or stronger than yourself.
Shadow Hand: The wielding of shadows, both figuratively and literally, based on Hide. Focuses on sneak attacks, misleading enemies, moving around in unexpected ways, and striking pressure points to paralyse or kill enemies.
Stone Dragon: See warblade
Tiger Claw: See warblade

[Pesimismrocks]

Incarnum: Free temporary magic items that you create at the start of each day and bind to a body location.

Incarnate: Alignment based magic items. Good jack of all trades

Soulborn: Play a paladin but swap out awful spellcasting for awful incarnum shaping

Totemist: Have you ever wanted to play the Tasmanian devil from looney tunes

[Shining Wrath]

The classes from Tome of Battle represent fighting less abstractly than fighters, barbarians, etc. - rather than being limited to the same attack over and over, the player has access to all the strikes, forms and defences of real swordplay, and can choose the best for the situation. Low-level combat has a swashbuckler feel, and high-level combat resembles something out of a martial arts movie. Maneuvers are divided into nine disciplines, each representing a broad style of combat, and each class has access to different disciplines in different ways.

Warblade: Someone who fights with raw skill, cunning and grit. He doesn't get as many maneuvers as a swordsage, but can use them more efficiently.
Diamond Mind: The thinking man's discipline, based on the Concentration skill. By keeping your focus laser-sharp, you can react in an instant to evade/parry an attack or take advantage of your enemies' openings.
Iron Heart: The discipline representing raw skill and power, based on Balance. Specialises in shrugging off attacks, overwhelming your opponents, and cleaving through multiple enemies in one blow.
Stone Dragon: The juggernaut discipline, based on Balance. Lets you become as tough and unmovable as a mountain, and perform powerful blows which ignore defences, knock enemies down, or damage bones and organs.
Tiger Claw: A discipline of savage, animalistic combat, based on Jump. Focuses on RIP AND TEAR with multiple weapons or your bare hands. Many of its maneuvers give you extra attacks per turn or inflict crippling pain.
White Raven: See crusader

Crusader: A warrior who derives his strength from absolute devotion to a cause. Possibly the best tanking class in the game - not only can he delay the effects of damage, but he gains combat bonuses for doing so. His lower reliance on formal training means his selection of maneuvers is very narrow, but also less rigid - he never has to pause to regain his balance, no matter how long the battle.

Devoted Spirit: The discipline of faith and resolve, based on Intimidate. Specialises in fighting enemies of opposite alignment, making inspiring attacks which heal your allies, and blocking attacks made against you or your allies.
Stone Dragon: See warblade
White Raven: The leadership discipline, based on Diplomacy. Focuses on combination tactics, forcing enemies to focus on you instead of your allies, and letting your allies act more often.

Swordsage: A lightly-armored warrior who devotes his life to the study of martial arts. While he has less practical experience (making it harder for him to adapt to changing situations in combat), his sheer range of maneuvers is enormous. Some swordsages can even use supernatural techniques, like teleporting and shooting fire from their fists.

Desert Wind: A discipline focused on swiftness and agility, based on Tumble. Users can move like flickering flames, and many can even shoot blasts of fire or set their weapons alight (think Avatar: The Last Airbender).
Diamond Mind: See warblade
Setting Sun: A judo-like discipline based on Sense Motive. Focuses on redirecting your enemies' attacks, repositioning yourself and your enemies (mostly by throwing them), and gaining bonuses against creatures larger or stronger than yourself.
Shadow Hand: The wielding of shadows, both figuratively and literally, based on Hide. Focuses on sneak attacks, misleading enemies, moving around in unexpected ways, and striking pressure points to paralyse or kill enemies.
Stone Dragon: See warblade
Tiger Claw: See warblade


Each also gets bonuses based on a fourth ability score outside the usual 3 for fighters.
Crusaders get Charisma based bonuses and are therefore somewhat like Paladins.
Swordsages get Wisdom based bonuses and are therefore somewhat like Monks.
Warblades get Intelligence based bonuses, which is fairly unique.

[JusticeZero]

The last post on the campaign setting in my signature has a few, but i'll admit that they could use more detail. The flexibility works against me ;the Aegis is mechanically a bit like "Tony Stark, but piloting his imaginary friend", but that sounds really snarky and doesn't inspire anything much. I had to go with a training based backstory and is still unsatisfying.
Aegis are people who visualize either being, or wearing a more powerful identity, and Soulknife is a person who visualizes wielding a powerful weapon a lot.. Like kids who imagine play sword fighting with imaginary swords, or that they are Super - dude! Or Amazing Girl! Might, if they do so vividly and a lot until their latent mental abilities click in to place on that , become an Aegis or Soulknife.
A Dread is someone who has transcended fear with mental power and now wields it.
Vitalist is similar, but works with pain, injury, and illness to become psychic vampires and faith healers.
Tacticians are great leaders and managers who use mental powers to coordinate their team better.
Marksmen use psychic abilities to take their mastery of range weaponry to a whole new level.
Psion is psychic power users. Yoda, some guy who's spent lots of time meditating in monastery, lots of people from new age fantasy books.. Wilder is a psychic that didn't get good training, so they probably exploded some stuff accidentally trying to teach themselves. But they have lots of raw power to throw around that isn't well controlled.
Psychic Warrior is someone who has psychic training that they use to fight with. A bit like, oh, jedi or Neo or something like that.

Gunslinger is straight out of an Old West story.

[Immabozo]

A very interesting, and very different, class I like, is the War Hulk. Instead of BAB, the War Hulk gets +2 Str every level (hello skilled weapon enchantment!)

The War Hulk is a beast in combat, all out war is his playground. Few skills are available, but at that cost, you're a tough opponent in melee, Str to match mountain giants, bullrush builds to throw around even the god of str (Bullrushes in the D20 +80 or +90 range). A War Hulk is the fun tool everyone wishes they brought to war with them, but most people forget.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'd say that your going about it the wrong way. I'd describe the conventions of the game/world and ask them for character concepts, then tell them one or two classes that would work best, if not just make their character for them.

[Kazyan]

Totemist: Have you ever wanted to play the Tasmanian devil from looney tunes

Why does this work just...so well?

[Eslin]

I'd say that your going about it the wrong way. I'd describe the conventions of the game/world and ask them for character concepts, then tell them one or two classes that would work best, if not just make their character for them.

Unfortunately, that leaves a lot of classes never getting explored - it'd have to be a very very specific concept for dragonfire adept or incarnate to get mentioned.