Commonly-Used House Rules & Homebrews for 3.5

[Everynone]

I'm just wondering what house rules you guys commonly come across when you're playing games with people, or what rules you most often implement when you're DMing. This is mostly because I'm wondering what people commonly think of as broken or badly written, and because me and my friends are coming up with an optional "House Rules Handbook" for most of our future games, that we can reference while playing. It'll also include our homebrews and additions to base rules from other rulebooks (like adding classes or PrCs or spells or feats or items or whatnot). So I'm also interested in what commonly-used and simple homebrews you guys have come across. Thanks!

[The Viscount]

One of the more common ones is I think to ignore death from massive damage rules.

[Everynone]

One of the more common ones is I think to ignore death from massive damage rules.

How does that work, specifically?

[eggynack]

How does that work, specifically?
There's a rule that states that if you take 50 or more damage from a single attack, then you need to make a DC 15 fort save or die. With his house rule, that rule would not exist. In response to the central question, there's always the list of house rules that most people make without even knowing they're doing so. I'm talking about stuff like monks having proficiency with unarmed strikes, or ride by attack working at all. Also included is the negation of everything involving drowning. There's a whole list of house rules that cause games to more easily conform to the rules as common sense dictates.

[The Viscount]

Another one that seems rather common isn't really a houserule as much as a gentleman's agreement, is that nobody sunders. Disarming also seems to be rather frequently set aside.

[RFLS]

I have a laundry list of fairly common houserules, which I'm sure will be covered in this thread fairly readily.

For homebrew, though, there's a set of 4 that I absolutely love for portraying a magitech setting. Magitech Templar, Machinist, Grammarist, and Xenoalchemist are hands down some of the best homebrew available, and I'd recommend them to anyone.

Self-plug: My own Beastshaper isn't too shabby, either, although it's hardly a well-know or used one.

[Mjollnir075]

In my games, I don't use multiclassing penalties. I have also been toying with the idea of using Scaling Feats. I think the Art of War handbook over on one of the DnD wiki sites was where I originally seen it.

Pretty much, you would get the base feat, and then when either your BaB or skill ranks reached a certain level, the feat gave you an advanced version, but some of them would advance multiple times, such as at BaB 1/6/11/16.

Never tried it before, but it seemed worth a shot.

EDIT:

Also, and this is only for somewhat lighter RP-ing, but I always reward a nat 20 on Perception//Search/Spot with loot. My players are the definition of greedy Murderhobos, so it works for my game.

[Coidzor]

No Multiclass XP penalties is probably the biggest one, to the point where many forget it's actually a house rule.

[Kansaschaser]

Max hit points: No one rolls for hit points. All characters, npc's, and monsters have maximum hit points.

Bonus skill points: Any time your Intelligence bonus increases, you get bonus skill points retroactive back to 1st level.

Reason: I use both of the above house rules because it makes it really easy to audit higher level characters... which I have to do often with some of my players.

[Amphetryon]

Off the top of my head:

Monks - should you be desperately interested in playing one - are actually proficient in Unarmed Strikes. They also get Full BAB.

Ride-by Attack cares about your mount's movement, not (as written) yours.

Drown-healing doesn't work (but it is possible to stop Drowning with a Heal check).

There is no such thing as Dust of Sneezing and Choking/Coughing/Insta-gibbing the enemy.

All spellcasters in my games must independently tell me what time their particular spells refresh; this time is set to the corresponding time of the plane (not demi-plane) they're on or - should they be on a demi-plane - the nearest actual plane.

There is no Flowing Time Trait.

Pazuzu was killed by a freak accident involving an arrow to the knee.

[HalfQuart]

I don't think I've played in a campaign that used material spell components since 2nd edition (back when we used to actually collect bat guano in caves), as if everyone has Eschew Materials.... and often with a higher threshold than 1gp.

[GoddessSune]

*A successful knowledge skill check does not give you a massive encyclopedic amount of information about a topic. In general, you just get a bit of random remembered information.

*Feats are gained at all odd-numbered levels.

*Dodge grants a flat +1 dodge bonus to AC

*All spells with the (Healing) descriptor, including Heal, all Cure spells, Raise Dead, etc, are now back in the Necromancy School, as they were in earlier editions.

*Mage Armor is an Abjuration(Force) spell.

*A character does not, and can not, believe in her own illusions, even if she wants to.

*Illusions that produce a percentage of their effect when a target makes their save, such as Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation, cannot have greater than a 100% effect on a target after a successful save. No effect produced by an illusion can produce a greater effect after a successful save than it could produce with a failed save.

*You can only emulate spells you know or have in your spellbook with shadow evocation and shadow conjuration.

*The rule that states spells have a 50% chance to miss incorporeal targets does not apply to mind-affecting spells.

*If an abjuration creates a barrier that keeps certain types of creatures at bay, that barrier cannot be used to push away those creatures. If you force the barrier against such a creature, you feel a discernible pressure against the barrier. If you continue to apply pressure, you end the spell.

*The more general the question asked from a Divination spell, the more cryptic the answer.

*Divination spells do not grant sufficient information to become familiar with an area, meaning they cannot be used to teleport.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Off the top of my head:

Pazuzu was killed by a freak accident involving an arrow to the knee.

Mine is remarkably similar - DMG to the throat.


*Feats are gained at all odd-numbered levels.

*Dodge grants a flat +1 dodge bonus to AC

*All spells with the (Healing) descriptor, including Heal, all Cure spells, Raise Dead, etc, are now back in the Necromancy School, as they were in earlier editions.

*Mage Armor is an Abjuration(Force) spell.

*The more general the question asked from a Divination spell, the more cryptic the answer.

*Divination spells do not grant sufficient information to become familiar with an area, meaning they cannot be used to teleport.

I actually play with all of these... awesome that you do as well.

Warmages get an enhanced spell list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7293210&postcount=2).

Fighters get the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude Class feature

[The Viscount]

Unsure how common this one is, but I certainly like the idea.

If you take ability damage or drain such that you no longer qualify for one of your feats, you retain that feat for, say, the next 24 hours. If no means of restoration is nearby, perhaps it could be lengthened.

[Raendyn]

Max hit points: No one rolls for hit points. All characters, npc's, and monsters have maximum hit points.



Max hitpoints come along with a big problem. Suddenly save or lose is so much better than dealing dmg, because at average hps there formula is around 3dmg spells kill something and DC op is around the same, but in this scenario it needs ~5...

*I personally like the "You die at -Con instead of -10" House rule", saved trouble from accidental one shots, which noone likes, not even the DM.

*Craven doesnt exist.

*Multiplication rules work as intended no matter what word-by-word RAW seems to imply.

*abrupt jaunt does not exist.

*Familiars are under DM control and have their own personalities, they almost never think/behave as if they were extensions of the caster's will.

*Improved familiar does not exist.

*multiclass penalties exist but everyone gets a free extra favored class (favores class any, races gets 2)

*Cheese does not exist.

*most rules of the 3.5 RPGA V4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebxe/welcome) apply.

May add more later

[Crake]

Unsure how common this one is, but I certainly like the idea.

If you take ability damage or drain such that you no longer qualify for one of your feats, you retain that feat for, say, the next 24 hours. If no means of restoration is nearby, perhaps it could be lengthened.

Do you mean you retain the ability to use the feat? Because failing to meet the pre-requisites for a feat doesn't result in you losing the feat, simply the ability to use the feat (and thus any feats that require it by extension) but as soon as you meet the pre-reqs again, you regain full use of the feat.

[thethird]

I don't count mundane arrows, the poor archers are already in deep trouble.

[ArcturusV]

I suppose the houserules I use that I'm more aware of is Monstrous Monsters and Civilization Spread. On top of actually making Mounted Combat intuitively work where by RAW it doesn't.

The first one has to do with the fact that if something is a "monster", it is generally different, unusual, rare, and not really understood at all. So no Knowledge Checks on monsters. No "standard" monsters used that everyone knows about (exception: Animals, civilized species, Outsider Cultures, if a monster is sufficiently Legendary there might be some Lore about it). No "Cities" of Monsters.

And Civilization Spread is a houserule I maintain which says if two cultures are in constant contact, they're going to become roughly just as advanced as one another. I've never liked things like the Ultra Civilized, Advanced Empire will have some Fortress Town with late middle ages era plate armored cavalry, advanced Wizards, etc... and somehow they are in constant conflict with a Goblin Tribe/Nation just outside it's walls that is arbitrarily about 5 ages behind them in Technology and Culture, barely at Iron Age levels. So the more civilizations interact, the less "unique" they end up. After a few decades of contact there's going to be no significant difference in their technology levels. Culturally, sure. But you're not going to end up with the Mage Tech Nation bordering the people who's most advanced technology is sharp sticks.

Sure, it's more Setting Rules. But it does come up in games. Particularly as I've had a lot of groups who like to play Lordling, etc, at higher levels, forge their own empires, etc. The Civilization Spreads thing really kinda ticks people when they find out they can't develop a significant Technological/Magical edge, and maintain that edge long enough to be decisive.

[TypoNinja]

Another one that seems rather common isn't really a houserule as much as a gentleman's agreement, is that nobody sunders. Disarming also seems to be rather frequently set aside.

Sundering is just a terrible option. Who wants to destroy what's about to become their loot? :P

I feel like there are a lot of mechanics that work better against PC, than used by PC's.

Disarm is like that. Always be a PC or two to disarm, but who wants to blow a feat on improved disarm so you can sit there and go "Oh look, yet another beastie with claws"?

House rules for my group;

Death at -con score. Stabilzed at 10 + con modifier on the percentiles. Beefy types should be harder to drop dammit.

If its a smaller party you always get at least half HP per level. That is to say roll, but if you roll under half for your class take half anyway.. IE, Cleric always gets at least 4+con a level.

The rest tend to be game specific, so I couldn't really call them common rules.

[Amphetryon]

Sundering is just a terrible option. Who wants to destroy what's about to become their loot? :P

I feel like there are a lot of mechanics that work better against PC, than used by PC's.

Disarm is like that. Always be a PC or two to disarm, but who wants to blow a feat on improved disarm so you can sit there and go "Oh look, yet another beastie with claws"?

House rules for my group;

Death at -con score. Stabilzed at 10 + con modifier on the percentiles. Beefy types should be harder to drop dammit.

If its a smaller party you always get at least half HP per level. That is to say roll, but if you roll under half for your class take half anyway.. IE, Cleric always gets at least 4+con a level.

The rest tend to be game specific, so I couldn't really call them common rules.
I've always done the "Death at -CON" thing in 3.X, also. It tends to be yet another incentive to keep CON high, but that's okay. For new Players, it serves as a good hint that this is a useful stat. Similarly, I always run "1/2 your HD +1/level (+ CON bonus) above 1st" for calculating HP. The Wizard is neither significantly helped nor hindered by getting 3 whole HP/level plus her CON bonus, while the Warblade doesn't find himself nerfed by rolling a 1 for HP at 2nd and 3rd level.

[DigoDragon]

Another one that seems rather common isn't really a houserule as much as a gentleman's agreement, is that nobody sunders.

In my group it's 'No rust monsters'. Instead, I give those giant roaches a sweet bonus on grapple checks with their... tentacle things, and they just chew on your flesh instead.
Still pretty dangerous this way against a low-level party!

Another gentleman's agreement is that the GM will only use 'nuclear option' spells and cheese (such as Mage's Disjunction and night sticks) if the PCs use it. I've found this actually prevents a lot of the more common exploits in the system. :smallbiggrin:


We do use the "Feat at every odd level" houserule, as well as that all classes get +2 more skill points per level than the listed amount in the book. The latter one has helped encourage my players to invest in profession skills that get some RP use during downtime. Not bad.

[juicycaboose]

The only two that I can think of that my group uses are the flat +1 AC for dodge bonuses, and rolling for HP you get your roll + max roll / 2 = hp for that level
i.e roll a 2 on a d8, get 5hp (+con mod of course)

[Amphetryon]

I don't count mundane arrows, the poor archers are already in deep trouble.

I'm reminded of another of my "houserules you forget aren't RAW:" Regardless of how many arrows you fire in a combat, you recover all but one of them. Generally, the lost arrow is the 1st one, for convenience. If you try to game the system by consistently firing a mundane arrow and then following it up with your magical ones, don't be shocked if I keep track of how many you shoot and roll the appropriate die to see which arrow was lost, instead.

[Razanir]

1) No massive damage. I didn't even know massive damage was RAW until this thread.
2) No multiclassing XP penalty
3) Borrow Perception and Stealth from PF
4) Jiriku's Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8357951&postcount=1). This monk fix is famous enough that if you misspell his name in a Google search, it'll offer the correct spelling.
5) When rolling for hp, healing effects, or inflict spells, use d2+2 for d4, d3+3 for d6, d4+4 for d8, d5+5 for d10, and d6+6 for d12. Inflict spells get this treatment because they heal undead.
6) No counting mundane arrows. However, if you buy 20 +3 flaming brilliant energy cold iron arrows, you can be sure I'll only let you fire 20 of them

[Kasbark]

House rules i've encountered in 90% of the games i've played:

No multiclass penalty

Hit point fudging (some give players max, some give them average, some allow players a choice of rolling or getting average, or some other combo. I find it exceedingly rare to encounter groups who roll player HP every level)

No death from massive damage

No sundering (sundering it just made to ruin the players day)

dodge feat gives a flat +1 dodge bonus to AC


Thats the most common ones I've found for 3.5.

[Amnestic]

Sundering is just a terrible option. Who wants to destroy what's about to become their loot? :P

I think if I were to fix sunder, it would destroy mundane gear, but only suppress magic gear akin to how Dispel Magic works. Might also include a "cut-through" mechanic where if you beat the AC by a certain amount, you slice through to also deal damage or apply a debuff to the enemy holding the thing.

Dunno if it'd make it viable, but not destroying loot is probably a good start. :smalltongue:

Edit:


6) No counting mundane arrows. However, if you buy 20 +3 flaming brilliant energy cold iron arrows, you can be sure I'll only let you fire 20 of them

To add on to this, encumbrance seems to be an oft ignored mechanic.

[Raendyn]

Encumbrance should be used, although not many use it. It gives a reason to feel better to those poor beefy warriors that ppl see as just an other "tier 4 at best" thing.

[Everynone]

The response to this thread is awesome. These are exactly the kinda things I am wondering about. :smallsmile:

[Gavinfoxx]

-Never roll for randomly damaging magic items when exposed to various harmful effects / you have to make some saves

Go ahead, look up the rules regarding this. You'll be surprised!

[danzibr]

Every time you roll 1d20 you may roll 2d10 instead.

Raising the stakes.

Imaginary WBL.

[Raendyn]

Sundering is just a terrible option. Who wants to destroy what's about to become their loot? :P

This is a common mistake ppl do. The dm just rollin random treasure is wrong.

If I wanna sunder noone should be punishing me for it.

Enemies can also have loot in their backpacks/bags of holding/tents/wardrobes/etc.

And of course a decent dm normalizes each players gold evry 1-2 lvls in comparison with the proper WBL.

[Amphetryon]

This is a common mistake ppl do. The dm just rollin random treasure is wrong.

If I wanna sunder noone should be punishing me for it.

Enemies can also have loot in their backpacks/bags of holding/tents/wardrobes/etc.

And of course a decent dm normalizes each players gold evry 1-2 lvls in comparison with the proper WBL.

It's not about randomly rolling treasure. It's about the DM intending to give the party's Barbarian the spiffy jewel-encrusted Masterworked Greataxe the Hobgoblin warlord is using, only to have said Barbarian sunder it during the battle. Is it your contention that the Hobgoblin should have extras, or that all the treasure should be of the Shroedinger's variety, to appear or disappear based on what things the Barbarian breaks?

[Raendyn]

It's not about randomly rolling treasure. It's about the DM intending to give the party's Barbarian the spiffy jewel-encrusted Masterworked Greataxe the Hobgoblin warlord is using, only to have said Barbarian sunder it during the battle. Is it your contention that the Hobgoblin should have extras, or that all the treasure should be of the Shroedinger's variety, to appear or disappear based on what things the Barbarian breaks?

If he wanted to give me the +3 axe I just sundered. then its a pitty indeed , but I shouldnt be left without a weapon cause of that. He should have also put a handfull of gems that cost more or less the cost I must pay to upgrade my +2 axe to +3.

And if he wants me to feel bad about sundering, then an @ss as he is, he should at least give me the +3 axe that the hobgoblin has as backup, and make fun of me that I sundered the +4 one.

And as I said he must bring everyone back to the WBL every now and then. that includes those above WBL and poolings.]

And as for the thread topic:
Gold pooling equals tremendous punishment, unless its a profesional missrealing with great RP and arguments and/or the amount is irrelevant.

[Coidzor]

And as for the thread topic:
Gold pooling equals tremendous punishment, unless its a profesional missrealing with great RP and arguments and/or the amount is irrelevant.

Why on earth would you want the party to not pay for party expenses out of party funds? :smallconfused:

Have your players not discovered the utility of having a party wand of cure light wounds/lesser vigor or do you just think that the cleric really is a gimp and should be the sole person financing the party's healing?

[The Viscount]

-Never roll for randomly damaging magic items when exposed to various harmful effects / you have to make some saves

Go ahead, look up the rules regarding this. You'll be surprised!

That's a great one. It's an absolutely punishing rule.

[Coidzor]

Hit point fudging (some give players max, some give them average, some allow players a choice of rolling or getting average, or some other combo. I find it exceedingly rare to encounter groups who roll player HP every level)

We re-roll if it's below half the HP for the HD, which is more advantageous for Barbarians than Wizards, I must admit.


Raising the stakes.

Imaginary WBL.

What that even mean?


-Never roll for randomly damaging magic items when exposed to various harmful effects / you have to make some saves

Go ahead, look up the rules regarding this. You'll be surprised!

Oh, yeah. I forget this is RAW with how little play it sees in meatspace or around here.

[Raendyn]

Why on earth would you want the party to not pay for party expenses out of party funds? :smallconfused:

Have your players not discovered the utility of having a party wand of cure light wounds/lesser vigor or do you just think that the cleric really is a gimp and should be the sole person financing the party's healing?

If the reason is a wand of lesser vigor or CLW maybe...

But noone pays the glass cannons because they deal dmg. if someone's role is heaing the wands for healing are paid from his pocket.

Also what I had in mind mostly was something like " lets give all our money to the fighter to carry us through lvls 1-5 and then we have spells np" so we end up with 3 ppl owning gear that costs 1000g each and the fighter has a +1 valorous acidic spray falshion.

[Coidzor]

If the reason is a wand of lesser vigor or CLW maybe...

But noone pays the glass cannons because they deal dmg. if someone's role is heaing the wands for healing are paid from his pocket.

It sounds like you and your group really need to read this then (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_%28And,_why_you_will_be _Just_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal%29). :smallsigh: And probably look again at the cleric's spell list.


Also what I had in mind mostly was something like " lets give all our money to the fighter to carry us through lvls 1-5 and then we have spells np" so we end up with 3 ppl owning gear that costs 1000g each and the fighter has a +1 valorous acidic spray falshion.

...What? :smallconfused: That's a horrible decision which should bite them in the ass anyway even without explicitly being forbidden by the DM.

You might have an argument by pooling gold so that the wizard can scribe a bunch of scrolls or buy some in order to shut down encounters at a net profit, but even then...

[gondrizzle]

If he wanted to give me the +3 axe I just sundered. then its a pitty indeed , but I shouldnt be left without a weapon cause of that. He should have also put a handfull of gems that cost more or less the cost I must pay to upgrade my +2 axe to +3.

And if he wants me to feel bad about sundering, then an @ss as he is, he should at least give me the +3 axe that the hobgoblin has as backup, and make fun of me that I sundered the +4 one.

And as I said he must bring everyone back to the WBL every now and then. that includes those above WBL and poolings.]

And as for the thread topic:
Gold pooling equals tremendous punishment, unless its a profesional missrealing with great RP and arguments and/or the amount is irrelevant.

Oh lord, you would HATE my games.

My biggest houserule:

Magic items are NEVER available for sale for gold. There is no Magic Mart.

[TypoNinja]

After reading I realize the concept of "party loot" may be a house rule.

I usually take notes for the games I'm in, I've a netbook so its easy. I hold what has been dubbed "party loot"

Party loot contains two main classes of items. First, it contains whatever has been looted but not divided up yet, rather than distributing loot after every encounter we tend to do it at the end of game, or whenever we decide its time to go shopping and your share of the loot matters. This class of item is obviously temporary, its only there till it gets sorted/identified/passed out/sold.

The second class of item is the random crap we find, but decide to hold onto rather than sell because it might be useful, scrolls, wands, potions and oils, random wondrous items. All the stuff that might be useful later but nobody is particularly interested in carrying around and using regularly.

If we decide we nee to buy a wand of something for party healing rather than rely on spells a day, its purchased out of party loot.

[kernal42]

*If an abjuration creates a barrier that keeps certain types of creatures at bay, that barrier cannot be used to push away those creatures. If you force the barrier against such a creature, you feel a discernible pressure against the barrier. If you continue to apply pressure, you end the spell.


That's not a house rule. That's a real rule. That is word-for-word text out of PHB 172.

-Kernal

[danzibr]

What that even mean?

Raising the stakes (http://esix.pbworks.com/f/RaisingtheStakes.pdf) is too hard for me to explain. Check that link though.

As for imaginary WBL, basically you don't get a lot of gold as you level up, rather when you hit a new level you instantly go up to the new level's WBL, but it's imaginary gold, so to speak. You can buy imaginary wondrous items and enchantments with your imaginary gold. And you equip this imaginary weapons using the regular rules like only one item per body slot.

I haven't ironed out all the details (going to try it the next time I DM, supposed to be this summer). Basically the party can buy mundane equipment which act as magical equipment in the hands of people with imaginary enchantments, or they can buy consumables like normal. So potions, scrolls, stat enhancing tomes, those are normal. But there's no such thing as a +1 longsword. You can buy the +1 enchantment (probably link it to a specific type of weapon), then wield a longsword and it's treated as +1.

[Sutremaine]

So instead of paying for an enchantment on a weapon, you're paying for it on yourself (plus the cost of the physical weapon)?

That actually sounds pretty interesting.

[danzibr]

So instead of paying for an enchantment on a weapon, you're paying for it on yourself (plus the cost of the physical weapon)?

That actually sounds pretty interesting.
For weapons yeah, pretty much. I haven't yet determined how broad I want the enchantments to be (maybe just like +1 for longsword, or maybe +1 for any one-handed martial melee weapon... doesn't hurt to give melee nice things).

Then yeah, no matter what longsword you pick up it counts as +1. Then Monks can enchant their fists (or, well, whole body when it comes to unarmed strikes) and other things their natural weapons.

Someone said a person named Veal or Vael tried it, but I made a post recently asking if anyone did this and how it went but there were no responses. Sounds neat in theory but some things for applications would have to be ironed out.

I should've said it only applies to gear. Many wondrous items, like uses per day or straight up consumable, should be bought and given out by the DM as normal.

[Everynone]

Also, in addition to the original question, I'm wondering what non-PHB classes and PrCs are most commonly used in 3.5 games. I have a couple in mind, but I'm not sure if they're commonly played.

[ericp65]

Common house rule that I've been using as far back as I can recall: always give first level characters max HP. I've also always used full CON bonus for HP for all characters, regardless of class (relevant back when only combat classes got full CON bonus for HP).

Maybe this would be considered a house rule: always give foes max HP. I like combats that last longer than three rounds :)

[Gavinfoxx]

Common house rule that I've been using as far back as I can recall: always give first level characters max HP. I've also always used full CON bonus for HP for all characters, regardless of class (relevant back when only combat classes got full CON bonus for HP).

That isn't a house rule for 3.5e... maybe AD&D...

[The Viscount]

Also, in addition to the original question, I'm wondering what non-PHB classes and PrCs are most commonly used in 3.5 games. I have a couple in mind, but I'm not sure if they're commonly played.

The ToB classes seem to be used fairly often, as do warlock and dragonfire adept. Duskblade and Wu Jen get decent use, I think. Totemist is used less, but still not infrequently, I think. I don't know how frequently facotum and dragon shaman are used. They both seem like they're used frequently enough, but it might just be me.

If I didn't mention whichever you were thinking of, go ahead and ask. I'm sure someone can answer.

[Everynone]

The ToB classes seem to be used fairly often, as do warlock and dragonfire adept. Duskblade and Wu Jen get decent use, I think. Totemist is used less, but still not infrequently, I think. I don't know how frequently facotum and dragon shaman are used. They both seem like they're used frequently enough, but it might just be me.

If I didn't mention whichever you were thinking of, go ahead and ask. I'm sure someone can answer.

I was thinking warlock (which you did mention), archivist, favored soul, psion, factotum (mentioned also), warmage, scout, and maybe ninja too.

[Karnith]

The ToB classes seem to be used fairly often,
On the other hand, the Tome of Battle itself is probably second on the most-banned books list, so I'd say that it's a bit of a wash.

Unless we're restricting ourselves to games run at the average play level of the Playground, I would guess that the classes in the first round of the Complete books are probably the most used, after the PHB classes.

[TypoNinja]

On the other hand, the Tome of Battle itself is probably second on the most-banned books list, so I'd say that it's a bit of a wash.


Only the Second? what's number one?

Also for the record, yea my DM banned ToB.

[Amphetryon]

Only the Second? what's number one?

Also for the record, yea my DM banned ToB.

Sadly, it may well be the XPH.

[Coidzor]

^: Ninja'd! Though, yeah, it really is too bad.
Only the Second? what's number one?

Also for the record, yea my DM banned ToB.

Psionics or Unearthed Arcana, I'd imagine. Though that second one might just be semantics.

[Karnith]

Only the Second? what's number one?

Also for the record, yea my DM banned ToB.
In my experience it's the Expanded Psionics Handbook, which has been banned by more DMs I've met than any other book, probably because more people seem to have or have access to the XPH.

EDIT: Ninja'd on my own opinion. Though it does make me feel a bit better to know that I'm not the only person who has had this problem.

[The Viscount]

I was thinking warlock (which you did mention), archivist, favored soul, psion, factotum (mentioned also), warmage, scout, and maybe ninja too.

Archivist is used a decent amount, it's just rather demanding on the part of the player because they're sort of a divine wizard, so they have to track down all the best divine spells, because they can pull from any list. Archivist is also a pretty strong T1, so a campaign and a DM has to be ready for it. In your low-op game, archivist is out.

Favored Soul doesn't see much use, due to the fact that the cleric list isn't a very good one to pick a small number of spells known from. It just wasn't designed that way. Also the class features are rather lackluster. Being a T2, may also be barred from low-op games.

Psion use depends heavily on whether psionics in general are used. As mentioned by others, psionics are frequently barred, in some cases because people don't want to learn a new system. In campaign where psionics are allowed, psions can see some fair use. Again a T2, so power dependent. Look, I made a pun!
Warmage is not used very commonly, due to its restrictive spell list of almost exclusively evocation spells. Blasting is very difficult, and warmages are not the best at it. A little use is seen for entering rainbow servant for spontaneous cleric casting. I personally prefer wu jen for blaster types.

Scout is somewhat difficult to use, and as such doesn't see much use. I've heard Swift Hunter helps, but it doesn't make it great.

Ninja sees little use. It's not good, and it's hard to use, acting like a bizarre love child of rogue and monk.

[TypoNinja]

In my experience it's the Expanded Psionics Handbook, which has been banned by more DMs I've met than any other book, probably because more people seem to have or have access to the XPH.

EDIT: Ninja'd on my own opinion. Though it does make me feel a bit better to know that I'm not the only person who has had this problem.

Definitely the other way around for me, ToB is outright banned while Psionics is just uncommon, actually every body but the DM dislikes them.

On the other hand, our main campaign is set in Darksun so it'd be kind of impossible to go without Psionics wouldn't it?

ToB is one of the few books not owned by somebody in our group, why exactly is it so hated? I have to ask since I've never read it.

From my understanding Psionics hate lives on the legacy of its first (and terrible) implementation, but got significantly less terrible in 3.5, but ToB never had a predecessor as far as I know.

[ArcturusV]

Pretty much. I still have an admitted hatred and reluctance to even go near Psionics due to my memories of in it 2nd edition. And then getting the third edition book and seeing it was exactly the same stuff.

[TuggyNE]

Pretty much. I still have an admitted hatred and reluctance to even go near Psionics due to my memories of in it 2nd edition. And then getting the third edition book and seeing it was exactly the same stuff.

Yeah, the key thing to remember is that 3.5 psionics is nothing like 1e, 2e, or 3.0 psionics. It went from being a horrible, terrible, no good, very bad heap of junk to one of the better-balanced subsystems. Really kind of an impressive success story.

[Yora]

The XPB is pretty much normal spellcasting with spell points and augmentation. Everything else works identical to magic spells, but it replaces those silly spell slots with a way better solution.

[Invader]

Endurance Toughness gives 2 hps per level instead of a flat 3 one time.

Dodge is a flat +1 bonus to AC.

Skill condensing like spot/listen is now perception, move silent/hide is now stealth.

[Amphetryon]

Endurance gives 2 hps per level instead of a flat 3 one time.

Dodge is a flat +1 bonus to AC.

Skill condensing like spot/listen is now perception, move silent/hide is now stealth.

That first one's odd, unless you meant Toughness, rather than Endurance. The Endurance Feat doesn't give any HP.

[Invader]

That first one's odd, unless you meant Toughness, rather than Endurance. The Endurance Feat doesn't give any HP.

Ahh you're exactly right, don't know what I was thinking lol.

[Amphetryon]

Ahh you're exactly right, don't know what I was thinking lol.

Don't stress over it too much; you're not the first I've seen make that mix-up.

[Fibinachi]

I have a couple we slot in an out depending on the gamestyle and how stupid everyone's feeling.
To wit:


Massive damage rules apply to mooks / low level enemy types, but not players
Scaling bonuses on some feats (dodge, weapon focus, toughness to name some)
Death at -CON
HP / level is class dependent (wizards roll, melee classes get full)
I *will* track my nebolous Reputation Score Index and there *will* be a matrix of benefits and you *will* suffer the consequences of your random actions
Knowledge is Freestyle - trade in action points to define something you roll for as long as it's keeping with the setting
Arrows comes in quivers that are always stocked in a dramatically appropriate manner
No multi-class XP penalties
Background Trait Bonus: Define 3 things that are of singular importance to your character, in situations where they apply you get a Plot bonus to atk, dmg, saves (Must Defeat The Red Baron, Cannot Abide By Evil, Must Charm Ladies)
Healing spells of any kind are Necromancy, not conjuration
Contacts - at char gen, you can define a few contacts to offer aid later on / define character
Undeads are not crit immune, they simply take varying degrees of damage sink from crits (half, quarter, so on) depending on capacity of the necromancer
Likewise, sneak attack deals half damage to anything nominally sneak attack immune unless the DM rules that'd be absolutely weird (anyone with sneak attack features can contest this ruling in the areana of honor)
Leveling Up happens across a period of time - you don't hit one monster, then suddenly gain new class features in midst of combat
Feats every 2 levels, feats can be gained through story progression
Appeals to Logical Consequence Of Standard Cosmology (Absolute law and evil definitively exist, your alignment means this) are null and void - you defend your character actions coherently enough and the DM will let it slide
No, Steve, "Chaotic Good" does still not allow you to burn down the orphanage.
Combat Option Module - if everyone agrees, it's assumed any melee class automatically knows improved sunder, trip and disarm to add more combat options
Indeterminate Weapon Damage - The dagger does not do 1d4 damage if you're asleep and your throat is slit, it does 10d1000000.
Skills - One roll = success, in most cases (no multiple rolls).
Skills - option expanded from "pass/fail" to "pass / fail / succeed but / fail and / fail but / succeed and"
Any NPC guarding or patrolling anything gains a + ½ cl bonus to perception checks to counter the "The guards don't get class skill ranks in hearing, listening and sensing motives"
Criticals - you can opt to apply penalties in increments of 10 dmg = -1 instead of dealing damage, these penalties last 1d4+1 rounds
Morale Tests - sentient creatures generally wish to avoid fighting to the death, it's understood by the PC's that direct acts of killing are extreme options when facing creatures capable of reason and that the same is granted to them
Death Flag - You get fate points, these can ward of death as per a generalized rule akin to Dark Heresy.
Achivements - the DM awards bonuses for consistent character actions in increments of +1 to stats across significant milestones ( kill a hundred goblins, get bonuses against goblins )
No single vechicle moves any faster or slower than the speed of the plot

[Gavinfoxx]

I combine the benefits of Toughness and Improved Toughness; it gives you 2 hp, + 1/level.

[Everynone]

Endurance Toughness gives 2 hps per level instead of a flat 3 one time.
Actually, our group usualy does +1hp per level, essentially raising your CON +2 for the purposes of hp. Not too OP, but not useless at higher level like RAW Toughness.


Dodge is a flat +1 bonus to AC.
This is like a canon house rule by now, I think. I'm pretty sure almost everyone has mentioned it at least once. Ironically, I've never used it on a campaign.


Skill condensing like spot/listen is now perception, move silent/hide is now stealth.
This is one I find intriguing...my group hasn't used it, but we probably will in our next campaign. I kinda like PF's skill system, but it's missing somethings. Besides what you mentioned, what else is condensed?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Metamagic reducers can only reduce the cost of metamagic to a minimum +1 (exception: metamagics that didn't increase the slot originally (eg. Invisible Spell) stay at +0, and cannot be reduced to -1).

[Gavinfoxx]

Uh... use those designer's fixes for Hexblade, and use Greenbound Summoning the way the designer intended it: at a +2 metamagic feat.

Uh, Monks are proficient in Unarmed Strike.

[rollforeigninit]

Dodge grants +1/5 lvl to AC as a dodge bonus (caps out at dex mod x2 (or 5))

Weapon Focus grants +1/5 level to hit (competence bonus) (Max 5 at 20)

Weapon Specialization +2/5 level to damage untyped (caped at 10). This also adds +5ft /2 levels to the range this damage applies to for ranged weapons.

The save buffing feats (Great Fortitude, etc.) grant +1/5 level bonus to said save

We converted to Pathfinder but when a character takes a feat he may choose which version to use at the time a feat is taken. (power attack)

Max HP at every level. ( I know it introduces problems but it causes the fighter a BIG headache to get 3 hp at any given level) If wizards want to cry about it, I'm getting rid of them in the campaign setting I'm making anyways.

Wish is NERFED (complicated)

Summoning required bargaining and summon monster or nat ally requires concentration to maintain.

[inuyasha]

any skill you dont have ranks in you can still make a check with, but you use 1d12+ability mod instead of 1d20

At will cantrips (I was doing this before pathfinder)

EDIT: oh and no XP is needed for crafting magic items (unless the spell in the magic item requires xp to cast, like wish or something)

[Emperor Tippy]

Someone said a person named Veal or Vael tried it, but I made a post recently asking if anyone did this and how it went but there were no responses. Sounds neat in theory but some things for applications would have to be ironed out.
I've done it before and have rules lying around for it, not sure about the balance in a regular game though because the game I used it for had everyone playing as an Elan Psion//Factotum//Monk (with free Kung Fu Genius) with straight 18's for stats.

[Coidzor]

This is one I find intriguing...my group hasn't used it, but we probably will in our next campaign. I kinda like PF's skill system, but it's missing somethings. Besides what you mentioned, what else is condensed?

Concentration (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Concentration)is no longer a skill check, it's a caster level + casting stat + misc check.

[rafaruggi]

I don't think I've played in a campaign that used material spell components since 2nd edition (back when we used to actually collect bat guano in caves), as if everyone has Eschew Materials.... and often with a higher threshold than 1gp.

My DM only asks for material spell components for really important/powerful spells, like Resurrection

[TypoNinja]

Actually, our group usualy does +1hp per level, essentially raising your CON +2 for the purposes of hp. Not too OP, but not useless at higher level like RAW Toughness.


There's actually a real feat in complete warrior that does this. Improved Toughness. +1HP per HD. Only prerequisite is fort save of +2.

Our group pretty much lets this feat count as Toughness for prerequisites since its not completely terrible like Toughness.

[Vortalism]

I sorta dislike the whole Armour Class handling in D&D in general, so I end up using my own version of armour as damage reduction. Instead of actually using any of that I nick a mechanic from my youth playing (the very british) Dragon Warriors, where you have an Armour Bypass role, and each weapon has a die for armour penetration and damage capability. So the actual "AC" part of AC is just a defence score with +Dex and what-have-you.

+I also make the Dex restrictions for armour harsher than in the PHB.

That's just one of the things that I like doing in my games. :smallwink:

[Raendyn]

This is already there as a Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm).

[Mithril Leaf]

Technically published 3rd party material as opposed to homebrew, most psionics heavy campaigns I'm familiar with allow both Hyperconscious and DSP (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/) material.

[danzibr]

I've done it before and have rules lying around for it, not sure about the balance in a regular game though because the game I used it for had everyone playing as an Elan Psion//Factotum//Monk (with free Kung Fu Genius) with straight 18's for stats.
Oooh I'd like to see this.

[NinjaInTheRye]

For weapons yeah, pretty much. I haven't yet determined how broad I want the enchantments to be (maybe just like +1 for longsword, or maybe +1 for any one-handed martial melee weapon... doesn't hurt to give melee nice things).

Then yeah, no matter what longsword you pick up it counts as +1. Then Monks can enchant their fists (or, well, whole body when it comes to unarmed strikes) and other things their natural weapons.

Someone said a person named Veal or Vael tried it, but I made a post recently asking if anyone did this and how it went but there were no responses. Sounds neat in theory but some things for applications would have to be ironed out.

I should've said it only applies to gear. Many wondrous items, like uses per day or straight up consumable, should be bought and given out by the DM as normal.

I've used a modified version of these (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m6kx&page=3?My-solution-to-the-Christmas-Tree-Effect#145) rules for a similar effect. They work pretty well at removing the "big 6" and allowing for either a low wealth game (or a game where wealth is used on more flavorful or unique items).

[juicycaboose]

Leveling Up happens across a period of time - you don't hit one monster, then suddenly gain new class features in midst of combat

That reminds me of another house rule we use, attaining enough XP to level up doesn't automatically grant you the next level, you need 8 hours of rest before you go up a level.

[Cheiromancer]

I would love to try some of the options in Jiriku's "joy of skills" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11090577#post11090577). Especially the ones related to "Speak Authoritatively". The "Let it Ride" one also looks good.

[Vortalism]

This is already there as a Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm).

Ah, but there is a difference. If you are familiar with Dragon Warrior's system you end up having a sort of damage die for armour penetration and another for actual damage. While Damage Reduction does lessen damage or negate damage with the prescribed values in this system you role a die, for example a dagger, 1d10 AP die and 1d4 damage die.

So then it's roll to hit, roll to bypass armour, roll to damage. Plus each armour has it own value that you have to roll over, quite like the Armour as Damage Reduction Rules. Enhancement bonuses in weapons add to the bypass role (cause nothing else does) and enhancement bonuses to the armour adds to the Armour Factor/Score/Reduction whatever.

So it's slightly different. So this system allows you to experiment with different kinds of weapons and sharpnesses and stuff. For example blunt weapons generally won't penetrate armour as easily but will do more damage and vice versa for some kinds of bladed weapons.

[nyjastul69]

Monks are proficient with US.
Dodge gives a flat +1 to AC.
No healing by drowning.
Death at -10-(Con bonus)
Improved Toughness prerequisites are +2 Fortitude or Toughness

[Everynone]

Uh, Monks are proficient in Unarmed Strike.

Maybe I'm misinformed, but I guess I assumed that unarmed strikes are natural weapons, and therefore humanoids with unarmed strikes are proficient in them.

[Amphetryon]

Maybe I'm misinformed, but I guess I assumed that unarmed strikes are natural weapons, and therefore humanoids with unarmed strikes are proficient in them.

The Monk entry specifies exactly which weapons a Monk is proficient with, before any Feat expenditure. Improved Unarmed Strike is not on the list.


Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.

[ArcturusV]

And of course, note that "unarmed strike" is actually listed in the book as a Light Simple Weapon.

I didn't know anyone actually did leveling mid combat. I suppose the House Rule I commonly use then is that you don't level up until you have some time to consolidate your "lessons". Meaning you go back to town for some downtime, hone your new skills, get time to sit around and actually finalize your wizard research, etc.

[TuggyNE]

Maybe I'm misinformed, but I guess I assumed that unarmed strikes are natural weapons, and therefore humanoids with unarmed strikes are proficient in them.

Besides what Amphetryon and ArcturusV noted, there's a weird quirk of natural weapon proficiency: most types are explicitly given proficiency with their natural weapons, but humanoids only get that if they have RHD, which very few playable humanoids get. Instead, humanoids with only class levels use the proficiencies of their class, and that only. Monk, of course, does not list UAS. QED.

[TypoNinja]

And of course, note that "unarmed strike" is actually listed in the book as a Light Simple Weapon.

I didn't know anyone actually did leveling mid combat. I suppose the House Rule I commonly use then is that you don't level up until you have some time to consolidate your "lessons". Meaning you go back to town for some downtime, hone your new skills, get time to sit around and actually finalize your wizard research, etc.

Usually do ours at end of session, level up before packing up kind of thing. Sometimes before a boss fight, lots of published adventures expect you to be a certain level for certain fights.

Mid combat leveling? That'd just be obnoxious.

Unarmed strikes are just... a mess. The rules on them are weird. Its pretty easy to guess RAI on them, but the actual text and associated rules are so screwy that RAW they are just a complete mess.

[MoistCrayon]

Our main House Rule is the "Badass Points System"
Which is pretty much, you do something Amazing, You get a point, which can be used for pretty much anything, From an Auto Level, all the way to Reviving a dead Party Member instantly. There are restrictions, D.m's Discretion, mostly.
My Gnome Rogue, For instance, We were dealing with a Gargantuan Monster, some type of Wilderness Beast. Nothing we tried was working to take it down. So, I said Screw it, and I had our Mage reduce my size, and then I had our Dwarf throw me onto the monsters face, and then I blinded the beast, and killed it by Severing the brain stem, all while rolling the needed rolls and saves. everyone's mouth was Agape, they were surprised that it worked, and I didn't die. So, I got a badass Point, That I used to gain two new feats I needed for my prestige Class.
But my favorite was when I was a level three, and Insulted a great Draco Lych, and lived. :D
I got two Points for that, and I'm still holding onto them.
As I said though, Dm's discretion, and we usually get the party to vote to allow any points. Just thought I'd share one of our big one's

[Yora]

Does anyone ever count arrows?

[TypoNinja]

Does anyone ever count arrows?

Only the specialty ones. Mundane arrows are so common you don't need to bother. Fight 4 mooks, oh look 80 arrows! I'm set for the next dozen fights!

I've currently got a set of party loot with more than 1000 spare arrows in it, we didn't buy a single one of em.

[thethird]

Does anyone ever count arrows?


I don't count mundane arrows, the poor archers are already in deep trouble.

I do not count (mundane) arrows

[Coidzor]

We don't. I believe we pay something like the cost for 100 arrows and just leave it at that for plain jane ones.

[undead hero]

Houserules.

Druid Casting: Charisma Based

Concentration Checks to cast defensively doesn't exist anymore. If you are damaged then you lose a spell (AoO) and environmental/other factors cause a caster level check anywhere from DC 10 to DC 30 (ship rocking or horse riding to being in a tornado) to cast a spell.

[Everynone]

Druid Casting: Charisma Based
Wait, what? Why?

[Amnestic]

Wait, what? Why?

Might be because Charisma is a 'weaker' stat than Wisdom as far as casting goes. Wisdom contributes to Will saves along with Spot+Listen (two rather important skills) and some other stuff, whereas Charisma contributes only to a few social skills. It's easier to get Charisma for "X stat to Y bonus" sort of stuff, true, but baseline it's generally a weaker stat unless you're also aiming to be the party face.

Alternatively, it might be because Handle Animal is keyed off Charisma and they want to move it more towards that?

[undead hero]

Might be because Charisma is a 'weaker' stat than Wisdom as far as casting goes. Wisdom contributes to Will saves along with Spot+Listen (two rather important skills) and some other stuff, whereas Charisma contributes only to a few social skills. It's easier to get Charisma for "X stat to Y bonus" sort of stuff, true, but baseline it's generally a weaker stat unless you're also aiming to be the party face.

Alternatively, it might be because Handle Animal is keyed off Charisma and they want to move it more towards that?

Druids are all about charisma.... Hell it was their main prime ability score in 2e.

I forgot to mention they are at sorcerer casting (when they get new spells)... Doesn't change their over all power that much... But I think it reflects the druid better. Their link with their animal companion slows their spell progression.

[Mithril Leaf]

Druids are all about charisma.... Hell it was their main prime ability score in 2e.

I forgot to mention they are at sorcerer casting (when they get new spells)... Doesn't change their over all power that much... But I think it reflects the druid better. Their link with their animal companion slows their spell progression.

You may be interested in the Sidhe Scholar Druid variant from Dragon 339. It has a more fey/charisma focus.