Holy strike (Monk ACF) + Holy Ki Strike VoP feat?

[Gargravarr]

There's the ACF in CC, p48:



Holy Strike
Your fists and monk weapons gain the power of your beliefs and can strike your opponents for extra damage.
Level: 4th.
Replaces: This benefit replaces the ki strike (magic) class feature.
Benefit: When you hit an evil creature with your unarmed strike attack or with a monk melee weapon, your attack is considered good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and deals an extra 1d6 points of damage...

Then there's this feat in BoED, p44:



HOLY KI STRIKE [EXALTED]
Your unarmed attacks deal extra damage to evil creatures.
Prerequisites: Cha 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Ki strike (holy), Sanctify Ki Strike.
Benefit: Your unarmed strike deals 2d6 points of extra holy damage to evil creatures. In addition, it is considered holy, which means that it can bypass the damage reduction of some evil outsiders. This does not stack with the extra damage from the Sanctify Ki Strike feat.

Since Sanctify Ki Strike requires Ki strike(lawful) (Assuming the (holy) in Ki strike is a typo and means lawful..) which can only be obtained by Monk 10 or Monk of Enabled Hand 2 (DC variant) does it then replace the ACF Holy strike once obtained? So by the time I get Ki strike(lawful) it's 2d6 damage through Holy Ki Strike feat but the 1d6 through Holy strike becomes obsolete? Hope you can follow me...

I have some Exalted Feats left but if it only means a measily 1d6 more damage I would simply keep Holy strike ACF and not level into Monk of Enabled Hand.

Holy, holy, holy....there! I've said it often enough now :D

[Need_A_Life]

Strictly speaking "Ki Strike (good)" is not "Ki Strike (holy)."

But it should.

[Gargravarr]

Strictly speaking "Ki Strike (good)" is not "Ki Strike (holy)."

But it should.

I see. But how can this solve my dilemma? :/

ETA:

As monk you get Ki strike(magic) at 4th level.
You can switch Ki strike for Holy strike, so attacks become (good) +1d6 dmg.
Level 10 monk/Level 2 MoEH get Ki strike(lawful), so magic => good => lawful, no?

However, this does not seem to fit with the prerequisites of the Exalted feats, hence the confusion.

[Pickford]

If I recall correctly, dealing the correct type of damage is what determines if the thing bypasses DR.

i.e. A sword which is made of cold iron bypasses DR/Cold Iron X and a good creature's natural weapons bypasses DR/Good X

Sanctified weapons are said to be dealing holy damage.


A sanctified weapon deals 1 extra point of holy damage

If any later feat mentioning sanctified such and such lacks this descriptor, that is a typo. Anyway, the pre-requisite for Holy Ki Strike is Sanctify Ki Strike which, because it causes your fists to deal holy damage, also makes them holy.

Incidentally, Good aligned weapons are synonymous with Holy weapons according to the DMG.


A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses corresponding damage reduction.

So yes, your thing works.

[Chronos]

If we're assuming that the "ki strike (holy)" in the feat prerequisite is a typo and it's supposed to be "(lawful)", I don't see the problem. The ACF replaces (magic), not (lawful). So you can have and benefit from both.

EDIT:


Incidentally, Good aligned weapons are synonymous with Holy weapons according to the DMG.
Not synonymous. Holy is one way to make a weapon good-aligned, but it's not the only way. It could also be subject to the paladin's Bless Weapon spell, or wielded by a good outsider, for instance.

[Phelix-Mu]

I thought there was errata somewhere on Holy Ki Strike. It's horribly written, and they made a similar mistake elsewhere in BoED, with making up fictional DR types.

Anyway, I think they just changed it so that Holy Ki Strike made the Ki Strike good-aligned. The damage was still as described, as I recall. So the two class features/feats overlap slightly more now, if I'm right, but they still should stack.

[thethird]

It can also be obtained by ninja :smallamused:

[DeusMortuusEst]

... a good creature's natural weapons bypasses DR/Good X
.

Just to clarify, that's a creature with the subtype (Good), not the alignment good.


A creature with the good subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were good-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above).

[Gargravarr]

Thanks everybody!

[Pickford]

If we're assuming that the "ki strike (holy)" in the feat prerequisite is a typo and it's supposed to be "(lawful)", I don't see the problem. The ACF replaces (magic), not (lawful). So you can have and benefit from both.

EDIT:
Not synonymous. Holy is one way to make a weapon good-aligned, but it's not the only way. It could also be subject to the paladin's Bless Weapon spell, or wielded by a good outsider, for instance.

I quoted the passage, they are identical.

[TuggyNE]

I quoted the passage, they are identical.

Yes, which means they aren't synonymous; Holy weapons, [good] subtype creatures, bless weapon, and so forth can all enable a weapon to bypass DR/good, but a weapon that bypasses DR/good is not necessarily any one of those. It's not a symmetrical relationship, which is required for "synonymous" to be a valid description. P -> Q, but not Q -> P.