D&D, slavery, and an eggy good meal

[GutterFace]

Ok so i am evil. i get to play my alignment as we see it, but the DM makes us take the consequences.

we have come across a very friendly tribe of Lizardmen whom are at war with a neighboring village of orcs. They accept our offer to help.

one of the guys in the party has dragonblood so he's probably going to mate with some of the "women" since he's a bit weird. since they are friendly i dont see how this is going to be an issue.

but i am evil. i want to steal their children. so Unseen Servant + Hoard Gullet. since they are lizards im assuming they lay eggs. i want to steal said eggs and keep them warm inside me. and then sell the eggs to a slaver at a later date.

how much is an unborn, but incubated lizard folk egg baby worth?

[BowStreetRunner]

So are you playing an evil character with a low wisdom score? Because just being evil isn't generally enough to be self-destructive. Of course, if you are sure that your party member finding out about this wouldn't cause any issues, go for it. But most evil characters with half a brain know to build up strong ties with useful allies, not break those ties down with unnecessary betrayal.

I've played evil characters before, and at no time would any of those back-stab a party member (since the party is generally my primary meal-ticket) for petty cash. In fact, the only time an evil character of mine ever directly went against the party, it was due to the character's central motivating beliefs (he was a cleric of Nerull first and foremost) and I made sure there was no way it would come back to bite him (he basically wiped out the party...at least, that was the idea. To be honest, the party was saved by DM intervention, but that wasn't my fault.) :smalltongue:

Now, if your character really is low INT/WIS, then this may be appropriate behavior. But if not, you better be certain of your DM. Many DMs will make a great effort to make sure this sort of thing gets caught.

[supermonkeyjoe]

They're worth however much someone is willing to pay you for them, see also: ask your DM

I think Lords of madness put slave price at something like CR squared x100GP, since lizardfolk are CR1, an able bodied adult would cost 100GP, an egg, maybe something like 10-15GP? depending on how costly it is to raise a Lizardfolk from an egg.

[GutterFace]

well our DM loves to double cross us ;)

so! i will be "borrowing" some eggs as a back up plan to either get us out of a jam, or escape and sell their babies (or whatnot)[if double crossed] otherwise ill spit them back up later on

this is my first evil character, so im trying to feel it out

[Deepbluediver]

The term "slavery" has had different meanings throughout history, often far removed from the racial-based variant in the U.S. that most people are familiar with.

In some ancient cultures, like Babylon or Rome, slavery had very specific rules, slaves had certain rights and privleges, and an educated or skilled slave could be worth a lot of money.

But as far as unpaid physical laborers go, they probably wouldn't be worth very much. You can just hire commoners for a few CP per day, so unless you have a plan or know some one who is going to use them for an extended timeframe, it will take a while to make back even 10-15 gp, particularly if they have an upkeep cost.
I'd probably place the eggs themselves at not more than a gold or two, since that puts the entire expense and time of raising and training (or breaking, since this is EVIL here) a slave on the buyer.

Now, I'm not sure how the dragonblooded type is passed on, but if there was something special, powerful, or exotic about the young lizardfolk in question, you might be able to bargain for more. Overall, if you can get away with it, I think you'd have a better return in raising them as loyal minions than sold for spare cash.

[GutterFace]

Ah, interesting point. whats the scoop with stealing a baby and raising it (what cohort? follower?)?

[Komodo]

I'll just start by saying that this all his hilariously horrible, and I'm not sure whether to give you advice or describe in detail what I hope the lizardmen do with your intestines.

I admit that I am far from being an authority on D&D rules, but it would very much surprise me if there were any hard and fast rules for raising a baby. Lizard or no, it would take years of campaign time minimum before they could be of any use in combat, so most feats relating to cohorts probably wouldn't apply. That said, it sounds like a really interesting roleplay opportunity. You can decide whether to risk losing your cohort in battle or risk losing their loyalty to you if you stick them in a boarding school. You could have discussions with them between encounters as you encourage them toward EVIL. And then, should the day come that they discover the truth about their past...well, that will certainly prove interesting.

They should tie the intestines around the neck of a one-week old male calf and sacrifice it as a burnt offering to purge your evil from the land.

[Gavinfoxx]

Ah, interesting point. whats the scoop with stealing a baby and raising it (what cohort? follower?)?

"Parenthood".

[Invader]

Infants don't make good slaves...

Regardless of that, this seems like a really elaborate plan with a really small pay out. It doesn't really seem worth the hassle to me.

[137beth]

I'm sorry, this thread disappointed me. I saw the title, and I was expecting something to do with Eggynack:smallsmile:

[Deepbluediver]

Lizard or no, it would take years of campaign time minimum before they could be of any use in combat, so most feats relating to cohorts probably wouldn't apply.

I'm sure we could come up with some sort of magic spell that would pervert both their mind and body to grow at an unnatural rate and still be loyal to you...but as far as I know you would have to homebrew it.

I guess the other posters are right in that raising your own slaves would take a while. If the rest of you party is ALSO evil though, maybe you should just see about enslaving the entire tribe. You could probably do it with force, if you're high enough level, or via trickery if they are stupid or superstitious enough.

If you think you're team-mate would have a significant attraction to his offspring, even if he's never met them, then just take a few eggs, pay to have them raised far away, and keep them as an opportunity for blackmail should the need arrise.

[Xervous]

They should tie the intestines around the neck of a one-week old male calf and sacrifice it as a burnt offering to purge your evil from the land.

And here I was, thinking you were just a calm and collected dragonblooded individual. Or perhaps it was your composure during your bout in the avatar fight club... Looking back on it, I don't think a vampire would taste well anyways.

[Komodo]

And here I was, thinking you were just a calm and collected dragonblooded individual. Or perhaps it was your composure during your bout in the avatar fight club... Looking back on it, I don't think a vampire would taste well anyways.

Your assessment was accurate. I would be very calm and collected as I tore the magical second stomach out of the creature what dared steal eggs from my brood.

[BowStreetRunner]

And here I was, thinking you were just a calm and collected dragonblooded individual. Or perhaps it was your composure during your bout in the avatar fight club... Looking back on it, I don't think a vampire would taste well anyways.

Your assessment was accurate. I would be very calm and collected as I tore the magical second stomach out of the creature what dared steal eggs from my brood.

Nothing to see here. Move along. :smallcool:

[JusticeZero]

The problem with raising a baby is that, well, you have to raise a baby. It'is time intensive in the extreme. Ask any mom how feasable your idea is and prepare to have your dreams of hobby childrearing smashed.

Chattel Slave labor is not very efficient in the best of cases: it is similar to prison labor in efficiency,and prisons in tne US have not been able to be commercially compete with the other options at 0.75/hour. It works much better with a more empowered workforce. Most slave using cultures were not pre-civil war chattel slavers.

[GutterFace]

I'll just start by saying that this all his hilariously horrible, and I'm not sure whether to give you advice or describe in detail what I hope the lizardmen do with your intestines.

I admit that I am far from being an authority on D&D rules, but it would very much surprise me if there were any hard and fast rules for raising a baby. Lizard or no, it would take years of campaign time minimum before they could be of any use in combat, so most feats relating to cohorts probably wouldn't apply. That said, it sounds like a really interesting roleplay opportunity. You can decide whether to risk losing your cohort in battle or risk losing their loyalty to you if you stick them in a boarding school. You could have discussions with them between encounters as you encourage them toward EVIL. And then, should the day come that they discover the truth about their past...well, that will certainly prove interesting.

They should tie the intestines around the neck of a one-week old male calf and sacrifice it as a burnt offering to purge your evil from the land.


It's responses like this why i love coming back all the time to this forum :)

yea this was all an advanced hypothetical, based on some shenanigans about what our DM may try to do to us (as a party).

i will steal some eggs. i will hatch them in my Hoard Gullet, and then send them Evil boarding school to become little Sorceress in their own time.

i wasn't looking to break the game or this campaign...just do some nonsense roleplaying to counter a DM if evil motives :)

[Slipperychicken]

You could do that thing where you bury the egg, then dig it up and eat the fetus later. You (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg) monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut_(egg)).

Even more evil if you trick the Dragonborn into eating some of his babies.

[Chronos]

Real evil characters don't do things just because they're EVIL! And that's what I do! Because I'm EVIL!. Real evil means doing things that benefit you, without regard to the effects they have on others. OK, OK, yeah, you're planning on selling the eggs for a profit... But you'd get a lot more profit at a lot lower risk by doing something like selling your party-mates' magic items.

Which, incidentally, I also wouldn't recommend, even though it would make a lot more sense than what you're talking about. Because there's also the question of you yourself and the other players. You're playing this game because it's fun, and party members stealing from each other usually isn't fun. If you're going to play an evil character, or even a whole party, you and the other players really need to sit down first and figure out just what your characters' goals are, why they're putting up with each other, and what's holding the party together. It can happen, but you have to make it happen.

[ArcturusV]

The sad thing is on the question of raising Lizardman Cohorts from the eggs, I instantly though of the A&EG, and having ranks in Handle Animal (Baby)....

But in regards to the general plan. Your best bet if you were doing this to make a profit is go more for the "Exotic Pet" market than the Slave market. Wait until your Murder Hobo travels take you a place where Lizardmen are more of a tavern story or something to frighten children then find a rich guy and pawn the eggs (Or possibly hatchlings at that point) off on him.

Same sort of thing you should really do with any unusual loot in DnD. That polar bear pelt you found on the tundra is probably worth a week's stay at the inn in the local town... or worth thousands of gold to Nobleman McFancypants and his personal tailor 500 miles to the south in the desert city.

[GutterFace]

The sad thing is on the question of raising Lizardman Cohorts from the eggs, I instantly though of the A&EG, and having ranks in Handle Animal (Baby)....

But in regards to the general plan. Your best bet if you were doing this to make a profit is go more for the "Exotic Pet" market than the Slave market. Wait until your Murder Hobo travels take you a place where Lizardmen are more of a tavern story or something to frighten children then find a rich guy and pawn the eggs (Or possibly hatchlings at that point) off on him.

Same sort of thing you should really do with any unusual loot in DnD. That polar bear pelt you found on the tundra is probably worth a week's stay at the inn in the local town... or worth thousands of gold to Nobleman McFancypants and his personal tailor 500 miles to the south in the desert city.

good lord sir you are a genius.

and yes i almost forgot all about the Murder Hobo "play style".

[Gildedragon]

Don't harass your party members; pulling shenanigans like that might lead to an amusing anecdote; though most likely, because of the grim subject matter, lead to hurt feelings and inter party conflict. Not that long ago there was a post of a ranger doing something vaguely similar to a team-mate.
Long story short: it didn't end well

Also doing it "did it because I am evil" translates to "griefing for teh lulz" [sic]. Ask the player whose children you're abducting if he's cool with that; same as you'd ask before your PC would steal from his. Otherwise expect to get murdered, and the group dynamic to suffer.

If you insist in being a(n) -insert suitable profanity here-
Gild or polymorph the child to full dragon-ness. More exotic, more profitable

[Nettlekid]

Can I ask, WHAT evil are you? If you're Chaotic Evil (bordering on the cusp of Chaotic Stupid and Stupid Evil) then your plan sounds actually in character. If the whim struck you to steal the eggs and sell them, then do it. But if you're more the Lawful Evil type, then snatching and stealing and selling at a minuscule profit isn't your style.

One thing you might at least try to do is find a scapegoat (maybe a fellow party member or a nearby monster), steal the eggs in the dead of night, plant 1/3 of the eggs on the scapegoat, and then with the Lizardfolk mount a mission to "rescue" the eggs. "Unfortunately, the horrible beast has already devoured 2/3 of them" you say, while they're actually hidden in your Bag of Holding. Now not only will you not have Lizardfolk chasing you, but they'll OWE you for saving 1/3 of their eggs.

And hey...in a tavern, at least paint them up and sell them as Dragon eggs instead.

EDIT: Oh, and on the subject of making the children usable slaves, if we're being hyper-evil anyway, why not Mindrape them into remembering a lifetime of painful oppression, training, and spirit-breaking slave-driving? All of the benefits of mental subjugation with no more work than the casting of a spell! And if your DM is on board with the idea (which he probably is if you've gotten this far), he might let you program memories of say, years of Wizard study or Monk martial arts training to make the baby slaves have at least one class level, which I would think would increase their worth.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Its questionable if the eggs can even be hatched properly if removed from the swamps. Lizardfolk pile rotting foliage and meat on top of the nests. Birds set on eggs, reptiles bury them.


it is similar to prison labor in efficiency,and prisons in tne US have not been able to be commercially compete with the other options at 0.75/hour. That's because they legally aren't allowed to compete commercially that's why prison labor is used to make license plates or public school furniture.

[GutterFace]

Don't harass your party members; pulling shenanigans like that might lead to an amusing anecdote; though most likely, because of the grim subject matter, lead to hurt feelings and inter party conflict. Not that long ago there was a post of a ranger doing something vaguely similar to a team-mate.
Long story short: it didn't end well

Also doing it "did it because I am evil" translates to "griefing for teh lulz" [sic]. Ask the player whose children you're abducting if he's cool with that; same as you'd ask before your PC would steal from his. Otherwise expect to get murdered, and the group dynamic to suffer.

If you insist in being a(n) -insert suitable profanity here-
Gild or polymorph the child to full dragon-ness. More exotic, more profitable

Here is what i don't understand. No where did i mention i was involving or manipulating or screwing over any party members but i saw this posted a lot...my stealing of the eggs was only contingent on the DM double crossing us with the Lizardfolk actually being bad and not helpful as it was originally stated. second i was going to do this out of "scene" when the other party members were at the inn, pub, or putting the moves on the "ladies". I an NE, im looking out for myself. therefore an evil back up plan (ie. stealing the unborn children) came to mind. if anything this idea was to benefit the party as a whole, you know taking hostages and slowly backing out of the village. the selling the eggs to slavers (etc.) was to see what price they unborn eggs would/could fetch if and when i had to make off with them.

long story short, i stole the eggs with an unseen servant when everyone was at the village celebration. only 3. and stashed them in my Hoard Gullet. no one noticed, we didnt get double crossed. and i made off with them.

[Rhynn]

Also doing it "did it because I am evil" translates to "griefing for teh lulz" [sic].

This. GutterFace, don't be a griefer, just play the freaking game. (For bonus points, make believable characters with real motivatons and personalities that go beyond "I'm evil lol".)

[GutterFace]

This. GutterFace, don't be a griefer, just play the freaking game. (For bonus points, make believable characters with real motivatons and personalities that go beyond "I'm evil lol".)

if you saw my above post, you would see the explanation of why i considered it... not for the lulz. it's for the "get out of jail free card"

[drack]

Well you might want to check out DMGII where it has things like mentors, businesses, and apprentices. :smallwink: That and I'm pretty sure you gain immunity to sleep effects as a side-benefit. :smalltongue:

[GutterFace]

Well you might want to check out DMGII where it has things like mentors, businesses, and apprentices. :smallwink: That and I'm pretty sure you gain immunity to sleep effects as a side-benefit. :smalltongue:

Ah Mentor/Apprentice :)

hilarious!

[drack]

It's the best fit I can think of mechanically speaking since they're (hopefully) not animals. :smalltongue:

[GutterFace]

It's the best fit I can think of mechanically speaking since they're (hopefully) not animals. :smalltongue:

pretty much once they hatch, since this campaign will never see them grow up...ill just keep them for added flair for my character.

[drack]

Well you always get the comic scenes of trying to actually teach them something. :smalltongue:

[GutterFace]

Well you always get the comic scenes of trying to actually teach them something. :smalltongue:

I can let them deliver Coup De Gras when i give people the Color Spray.

[drack]

One damage for gum attack? :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

Just to be clear, do mean "their" children as in the lizardfolks' in general, or your own party member's specifically? Because it looks like a lot of people are assuming the latter.