Illiterate Wizard

[jguy]

I wanted to try my hand at making a PF based goblin wizard but how do I get around the fact that goblins are universally illiterate because they think words steal knowledge from your head? Would his spell book be just a bunch of drawings? How do you justify 16 or 18 int but can't read? Can he still scribe scrolls? Can he use scrolls that he hasn't personally made?

[Invader]

That sounds like a fluff rule and shouldn't really pose a problem but in not that familiar with PF.

[limejuicepowder]

It sounds to me like you've answered your own question by using the word "usually." Even if there is a real rule that says most goblins are illiterate due to their society, why would that have any bearing at all on a scholarly goblin? He's just the exception to most goblins.

[Hamste]

There is not actually any rule that states goblins are illiterate in pathfinder. Just make a rollplay reason why you know how to read. Also read magic doesn't actually require the ability to read any other language so if you know it you can still study your spell book.

[eviljav]

Would you consider making him a sorcerer, who only thinks he's a wizard?

Each morning, he'd spend time studying his spellbook (which consists of nothing but scribbles and crude drawings) because that's what he saw wizards doing.

[Telonius]

From Paizo (http://paizo.com/PRD/monsters/goblin.html):


Goblins are also quite superstitious, and treat magic with a fawning mixture of awe and fear. They have the habit of ascribing magic to the mundane as well, with fire and writing both taking on mystical power in goblin society. Fire is much loved by goblins for its capacity to wreak great destruction and because it doesn't require size or strength to wield, but written words are hated. Goblins believe that writing steals words out of your head, and as a result of this belief, goblins are universally illiterate.


However:


Goblin Characters
Goblins are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice. All goblins have the following racial traits.

Illiteracy is not listed as a racial trait. (Looking a bit more into the SRD to research further...)

[jguy]

Well i know that mechanically they are not illiterate, just fluff wise, but I enjoy a RP challenge. How would you guys play an illiterate wizard? I was thinking painting from either crude to artistic in their descriptions of what spells do I.E. a fireball roasting some gnomes or enlarge person having a goblin stepping on a horse.

[AmberVael]

While other people have pointed out that you don't have to be illiterate (and if anything, I'm pretty sure you would be literate by the rules, not illiterate), I'd like to focus on the idea of what an illiterate wizard WOULD be.


Would his spell book be just a bunch of drawings?
Sounds right to me. Pictographs, diagrams, symbols made up by (and that only make sense to) the goblin in question.


How do you justify 16 or 18 int but can't read?
Writing isn't intelligence. It's just a skill set. There are many, many skill sets out there, and a lot of them take more intelligence than writing.
An illiterate culture with mages could easily have an oral tradition, each mage passing on their knowledge to one or more apprentices, who memorize it and pass it on themselves.

Therefore, a goblin wizard might not be able to use a library or write down arcane theories- but their memories could well be honed to a degree that would astound other magic users. They could be trained to retain gathered information to an astonishing degree- and I could see amusing moments where an illiterate mage might get frustrated with their peers, who would have to reference things rather and hear information multiple times, rather than being able to recite all their lore and remember something practically the first time they hear it.

An illiterate mage might not even keep a real spell "book." Using something like the eidetic caster variant (from Dragon Magazine), you might even have them memorize ALL of their spells, learning them through mental recitation and meditation. Or they might use certain sculptures or trinkets instead of a book, using bizarre geometric shapes as reminders of the peculiarities of specific spells.



Can he still scribe scrolls? Can he use scrolls that he hasn't personally made?
He might be able to make something like scrolls, or even actual scrolls, but I'm willing to bet they would be significantly different from normal scrolls, and that there would be difficulty in interpretation on both sides.

[Cheiromancer]

Take the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF from Dragon Magazine #357. (edit: swordsaged!) Give up your familiar, but you don't need a spellbook. (You do need to pay for special incenses to learn new spells - same cost as special inks).

The Elf Generalist racial substitution (Races of the Wild) should be available to illiterate wizards - it gives up scribe scroll for a floating spell slot. You'd have to rename it, of course.

With Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcana) to increase your number of automatic spells - necessary if you can't learn new ones from scrolls and spellbooks - the resulting character is called an 'Easy bake wizard'. You'd need to reflavor Collegiate Wizard, though. Unless goblins have wizard schools.

You could also be a domain wizard (Unearthed Arcana). That might fit a goblin better.

These are all 3.5 options. There might be others proper to 3.PF. I am not familiar with the system.

[Slipperychicken]

Well i know that mechanically they are not illiterate, just fluff wise, but I enjoy a RP challenge. How would you guys play an illiterate wizard?

Literacy isn't required to be a Wizard.

Easy mode: Eidetic Spellcaster ACF from 3.5

Hard Mode:


A wizard must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.

It says "study" your spellbook, not "read" it.

You also don't need to write in your two freebie spells/level. They just appear in your spellbook.

[HalfQuart]

Would you consider making him a sorcerer, who only thinks he's a wizard?

Each morning, he'd spend time studying his spellbook (which consists of nothing but scribbles and crude drawings) because that's what he saw wizards doing.
That's a really funny idea; I love it! :-)

[Another_Poet]

Just as a barbarian gains literacy if taking levels in another class, a goblin becomes literate if taking a level in Wizard.

With that said, I think it would be fun if your goblin uses pictograms instead of words for his spellbook, scrolls, etc.

If you do choose to use a written language, it will be fun roleplaying your character around other goblins - they will treat you with fear and awe, and you will be hated for your use of dangerous written words.

[Deepbluediver]

Would you consider refluffing it so that the spellbook uses something like kanji or heiroglyphics? Basically, would symbols be far enough removed from letters and words for it to not be considered reading?


But I also really like the "sorcerer-as-wizard" thing; that sounds hillarious.

[KoboldCleric]

Read Magic (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/spellsPtoR.html#read-magic) can be prepared without a spell book.

[Arkanian]

Yeah, there was actually a PBP all-goblin Pathfinder campaign I applied for a while back that addressed this issue. The goblin drew out an outline in his spell book of the gestures he needed to make, by drawing pictures of stick figure goblins performing those gestures. Can't remember how they handled the verbal components though.

[Makiru]

This gets covered a bit in Goblins of Golorian. The goblins that do learn to read and get casting either leave the tribe out of fear or are literally branded a bad omen and exiled or killed. Perfect excuse to go adventuring!

[Chronos]

In the real world, taboos don't actually mean that nobody in a culture will do a particular thing. Generally what they mean is that nobody except the king or shaman or other special person does that thing. The taboo is forbidden to everyone else, because doing it would be usurping the shaman's special privilege. With an attitude like that, it could make perfect sense for a goblin wizard to be able to read, despite goblins having a superstitious fear of reading.

As an aside, Another_Poet, when I saw your avatar I was going to refer you to the Things I Won't Work With (http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/01/09/things_i_wont_work_with_azidoazide_azides_more_or_ less.php) blog. But it looks like that was actually the source of the avatar. Let me tell you, knowing that that molecule actually exists scares me. Fourteen nitrogens! <shudder>

[Deepbluediver]

Didn't really respond to these the first time around.


How do you justify 16 or 18 int but can't read?

There is a difference between being smart and having an education, or specific knowledge. The latter is what is represented by Skills, mainly.


Can he still scribe scrolls? Can he use scrolls that he hasn't personally made?

Hmm...scrolls are basically stored spells, so if he has a method that makes the activation sequence legible to him in some manner than it probably wouldn't be an issue. The second question is a little tougher, though you could probably justify using a Comprehend Languages spell to get what you need, assuming that your DM agrees that it provides sufficient understanding without requiring the precise details.

[Slipperychicken]

In the real world, taboos don't actually mean that nobody in a culture will do a particular thing.

Or it just means that people won't like the Wizard very much, so he'll be kicked out strongly encouraged to travel abroad.

[Chronos]

Right, that's plausible too. I'm just saying that if you want to set it up so wizards are part of the society, that can also work. Ask your doctorDM if LiterateWizardsTM is right for you.

[TheStranger]

How about something like talking knots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu) as a fluff alternative to a written spellbook. Could work with "scrolls" as well.