[PF] White-Haired Witch Sneak Attacker

[MikolasTheAngry]

Hi folks! I'm messing around with a class build and giving myself a doozy of a headache trying to iron the wrinkles in this out. So, I'm coming here for help!

The basic idea: Using White Haired Witch to get some reach and control fights with trips and grapples plus a little Sneak Attack bonus damage somewhere in there.

So far I've got:

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the stat block is generated by 15-point buy, and then Vanara racial mods.

Witch 4 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2

STR 8
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 11
CHA 8

Witch 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
Witch 1 / Fighter 2: Weapon Focus
Witch 1 / Fighter 2: Boar Style, (Bonus)Feral Combat Training
Witch 2 / Fighter 2:
Witch 3 / Fighter 2: Combat Reflexes
Witch 4 / Fighter 2:
Witch 4 / Fighter 2 / Ranger 1: Improved Natural Weapon
Witch 4 / Fighter 2 / Ranger 2: ???

From here the build goes pure rogue, though I don't know if that's the best choice. I'd like to keep White Haired Witch for flavor (Though I know yes, plain old vanilla Witch is stronger), and at least 4 levels because if I go in, I might as well get some reach before ditching it. Ranger 2 is for the Style feat (maybe Aspect of the Beast) and wanding Strong Jaw, plus more BAB and at least Favored Enemy (or the Archetype that lets you call out an enemy for everyone to get bonuses on). Fighter 2 is obviously for feats and BAB.

Boar Style lets me switch the hair between blunt/slashing, and if I'm not mistaken, deal the extra 2d6 any time I Constrict after a (successful) free grapple.

Also, the DM is ruling the Hair is more like the Prehensile Hair hex, so it's effectively a limb with Strength = My Int, and uses my Int for CMB and everything so I don't need Finesse or the like to actually connect.

Where am I going wrong? What am I missing? I feel like I could be doing more, and I'm not sure what to bother with for combat feats.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

[grarrrg]

I'd say the main problem with your build is that it takes a while to get where you want it to go. I'd drop either the Fighter levels or the Ranger levels (if not both).
I'd say start taking Rogue right away after Witch, remember you can pick up a few Feats by way of Rogue Talents (and if you don't need Trapfinding the Swashbuckler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/swashbuckler) archetype lets you take the Combat Talent twice).

The Boar Style Bleed + Constrict thing seems iffy to me, if you DM OK's it, then great. If not, skip Feral Training and Boar Style (for now anyway).

Hmmm....

IDEA!
Take 1 level of Unarmed Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/unarmed-fighter) (maybe 2 levels)
Unarmed Fighter gives both Improved Unarmed AND choice of Style Feat with just one level.
Forget Constricting, go Tripping! Keeping Feral Training, take the Vicious Stomp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vicious-stomp-combat) feat, anytime an opponent falls prone you get a free Hair attack.
So you can attack with the Hair, if it hits, you can attempt to Trip your opponent, if that's successful, you get to make an AoO, and you can still continue with your Iterative attacks, which greatly increases your chances of getting the Boar Bleed damage to trigger!

You also already have plenty enough INT to qualify for Combat Expertise and the Trip feats (which can get you a SECOND AoO if/when they fall prone).


Also, the DM is ruling the Hair is more like the Prehensile Hair hex, so it's effectively a limb with Strength = My Int, and uses my Int for CMB and everything so I don't need Finesse or the like to actually connect.

Huh...as written White Haired uses INT for CMB and Damage, but not To-Hit...VERY odd...Typo? Overlooked?
I'm with your DM on this in either case.

[MikolasTheAngry]

I do agree with boar style being iffy with Constrict. Vicious Stomp makes it a bit easier to manage. Can get it at 5 too! Though...with no Improved Trip or the Trip special (Witch 4, one level short!) it's kinda risky. I still like grappling, because a Pinned person has no Dex bonus and thus is sneak attackable, and I think Constrict would trigger SA, no?

Trip offers some better use still in the end... Ki Throw lets me knock someone prone in any square I threaten. This, combined with Enlarge Person and hair reach sounds like good fun.

Snake Style sounds like a good alternate to Boar Style (if only because a huge skill check is easier to achieve, and otherwise I stand the risk of being fairly flimsy). I was really after Boar for the bonus damage and possible alternate damage types. Losing ranger makes sense on review--two level delay on sneak attacks for what, +1 hit/damage and claws? Not to mention gaining more natural attacks removes the 1.5x bonus STRINT to the hair attack...

So, lose Ranger 2, Unarmed Fighter and feats from 1-5 become

Combat Expertise
IUS, Boar Style
Weapon Focus (hair), Feral Combat Training
Improved Trip (Maybe Ki Throw, probably want to not get AoO'd first)

Blast the Witch's BAB though, I'd be willing to sink 8 levels in it for 15-foot reach, Pull and Strangle. I'm tempted as it is--Witch 8 / Fighter 2 isn't an unreasonable Gish, and I hit +6 BAB right there which is one down from a Rogue AND I have 4th level spells. Not shabby... I think I might anyway, no way around the IUS requirement for some things, and getting Ki Throw with a 15 foot reach is utter madness. Plus, if I take Magical Knack my CL will hang at 10 for saves and such...hmmm.

Maybe 8 Witch / 2 Fighter / 10 Rogue IS a better way to go. Though I don't know if I'm doing it in the smartest order.


Huh...as written White Haired uses INT for CMB and Damage, but not To-Hit...VERY odd...Typo? Overlooked?
I'm with your DM on this in either case.

Just bad writing (I'd hope). It's a splatbook, so no official say on what the deal is, but RAW it's pretty much straight worse than the hex it imitates.

[grarrrg]

Just bad writing (I'd hope). It's a splatbook, so no official say on what the deal is, but RAW it's pretty much straight worse than the hex it imitates.

It is by no means straight worse.
It gains some crazy Reach, some potentially useful abilities, and lasts ALL DAY, no stupid "minutes" duration.
That and the Hex is a Secondary attack, so there's that.

Yeah, the apparent "STR-to-hit" (RAW) thing is dumb, but compared to what you gain? I'll take it.


Arcane Trickster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/arcane-trickster) may actually be worth a look after a couple levels of Rogue, granted, it only has 1/2 Bab, but the Full Casting and Full Sneak Attack would be handy. And your build 'as-is' is going to qualify easily.

Another one I thought of that might help, Student of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/student-of-war), the Req's are easy enough, cept it does require 5 Bab. But at 2nd level you get to use INT-to-AC instead of DEX.
It's worth a thought.

[MikolasTheAngry]

I hadn't even considered prestige classes as a possibility, thanks! Hilariously I don't think I CAN qualify for Arcane Trickster (Unless the Minor Magic rogue talent works), not having Mage Hand as a spell, OR being able to take Arcane Talent. So, Student of War it is, if it goes that way! Thank you for all the help, I'm WAY over my head trying to rummage around in the SRD.

I still say the archetype's a bit worse in terms of raw 'power' than just Witch 20--but if I wanted raw power I'd play a human wizard.

[grarrrg]

I still say the archetype's a bit worse in terms of raw 'power' than just Witch 20--but if I wanted raw power I'd play a human wizard.

I thought you meant specifically the Hair comparison.
But yes, the Archetype overall is weaker than (most) other Witch archetypes.