War adventures/campaigns in the desert

[Xavrias]

I'm a Dm running a spin-off Dark Sun world, and my pcs have managed to get themselves all tied up in a relatively large scale war against a combined force of savage humanoids led by a kobold who calls himself the Fire King. (Just a little background Info.
Anyway, they are in a town, prepared for siege and the beginnings of the enemies army force has arrived at their gates, and begun the assault. What I mainly want to know are;
1. What experiences has the playground Dms had running war adventures.
2. What kind of army combat/how do you have the pc's affect the battle, especially at lower levels.
3. What help can you give in siege type combat. The pcs being in a town
4. How would the desert environment affect the battles, food supplies etc.
If you can help me with this I'd be very grateful.

[Malvanis]

The Dungeon Masters Guide presents stats for siege engines. In Complete Warrior it gives rule for a volley of arrows instead of each archer makes an attack role. If the PCs are higher levels then the opposition could employ desert beasts such as purple worms as living siege engines. Sieging in the desert would probably be short lived because the defenders would run short on water fast.

[Xavrias]

I'm not sure at this point if the enemy army has any siege engines, or if they do it'll only be a few. Because honestly, it'd be a huge pain to move those around the desert. Volleys could be helpful, I'll look up those rules. The Pcs are only level 2 at this point. We only started the campaign recently. So far, the cities well hasn't run out, but I am going to be making that point later on.

[Rhynn]

Why would the well(s) run out during a siege if they don't run out when not under siege? A well taps an aquifer, and if there's been a town there for a few generations, the aquifer is presumably getting enough groundwater seep that it's not going to dry up.

Anyway, Heroes of Battle presents battles in a pretty workable non-simulationist way for D&D 3.X: set a bunch of potential objectives, maybe give them point values, and let the PCs try to accomplish those objectives (sabotage the trebuchet, capture messengers, kill the enemy commander, repel a specific assault, etc.). Just try to scale them down to the PCs' notability: these guys probably aren't the highest-level, most powerful, or most important people in the town, but they can be in the right place at the right time.

Then make up a scale from 0 to the maximum number of "victory points" and rank them somehow. For instance, if the maximum is 15 VP:
0-2 - Complete Defeat: The defenders are overrun and routed, the town is sacked/razed/conquered, and most of the people are put to the sword or enslaved or whatever.
3-5 - Defeat: The defenders retreat, the town is mostly evacuated but lost, many people still die.
6-8 - Marginal Defeat: The town is evacuated in good order after a few assaults are beaten back, and holding action keeps the enemy from pursuing and slaughtering the civilians, although many/most defenders are slain.
9-11 - Marginal Victory: After a grueling siege lasting many weeks/months, the enemy gives up and leaves; the defenders suffer heavy losses.
12-13 - Victory: The enemy's will is broken after a few assaults and some sallies by the defenders, and the enemy is run off with serious losses, and the defenders suffer only moderate losses.
14-15: Complete Victory: The enemy assault fails miserably, and while they lick their wounds, a surprise sally from a concealed sally port takes their camp by storm and routs the siege force, slaying most of them (with light losses for the defenders), and gives the PCs a chance to fight the enemy commander and his bodyguard (with some NPC help, maybe).

Or whatever, jiggle the levels around to your satisfaction.

[Saintheart]

Probably Heroes of Battle is your friend on this one. In a nutshell, the approach it suggests is that PCs generally shouldn't be left in a scenario where they stand on the walls along with the other defenders and try and repel the army. The reason being that it's just a long fight, it's dull, it involves dicerolling for not a hell of a lot of purpose, and it stands a good chance of killing your PCs if you throw, say, 40 archers at them just on statistical probability alone.

Heroes of Battle suggests the PCs basically be a "troubleshooting" sort of team. Where a threat comes up that the Warrior 1s on the walls can't be expected to deal with -- say a big bugbear who's inspiring the attacking army -- the PCs go in to deal with it. If they beat the bugbear, that part of the attack is defeated because the enemy's will to fight fails due to the death of their champion.

You treat the battle as much more of a background to the adventure than have the PCs dicerolling itself contributing directly to the battle. This way you can still have the PCs feel they made a measurable impact on the outcome of the battle without having to roll dice for 8 hours as you faithfully count the army down from 600 to 0 as the heroes crit one kobold after another.

EDIT: Partially ninja'd by Rhynn above.

[Xavrias]

Thanks to both of you for the replies, that is helpful for the statistical part of the battles. In this case, the town's well has never been reliable to stay the least, and it will be more taxed by the soldiers and horses increased thirst. Now I need help with more specifics of a siege itself, and deserts. How would deserts affect a large size force, how would the sieging force supply water from outside the town? Any other tips and pointers would be helpful.

[Rhynn]

Basically, towns and fortresses could only exist in areas with water. If there's a well in town / inside the fortress, there's going to be wells in the surrounding area, since aquifers are much bigger than towns (check out the size of the enormous Ogallala aquifer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_aquifer)). Water sources - well, river, oasis - are essential for warfare in the desert. Your army has to travel from water source to water source, and your siege force will need them. That might necessiate setting up your camp pretty far from the town walls, depending; although there'll probably be a lot of small villages or collections of buildings, or farms or manors or plantations, all with wells/springs, within a few miles of town.

Check out the Horns of Hattin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hattin) (featured in the movie Kingdom of Heaven) for an example of what happens when you neglect your army's water supply. Trying to march for one day without a steady source of water spelled doom for an army. An army basically cannot carry enough water for one day, especially with fighting, in that kind of climate; you need approximately 3 gallons per man for drinking, and any pack animals you try to bring to carry water are going to need to carry more water (plus feed!) for themselves.

IIRC Sandstorm actually gets pretty close to reality on water consumption.

Create food and water (a 3rd-level cleric spell) is basically going to be completely insufficient. It doesn't actually tell us how much water it creates, which is infuriating, but I think we can guess that it assumes a consumption of something like 1 gallon per man per 24 hours, which means it only creates enough water for 1 human/level in desert weather doing hard work.

A modest force of 1,000 humans would need a total of 1,000 caster levels of create food and water per day. That's 200 castings at CL 5th, or 100 5th-level clerics with Wis 16 casting no other 3rd level spells. That's a completely unsustainable amount of 5th-level clerics.

Incidentally, armies will march very slowly in hot desert climates. The Frankish crusaders made something like 6 miles per day. The US Army recommends 50 minutes of rest per 10 minutes of hard work (e.g. walking in loose sand with load at 2.5 mph) in 90º+ F (32º+ C), or 40/20 for 88º to 89.9º F. Out of 12 hours of "marching", only 120 minutes would be spent marching (so you'd make 5 miles), and the remainder would be resting. The other hours in the day would be spent on defensive construction (the US Army recommends 30/30 or 40/20 rest/work split for that in these temperatures) and exhausted sleep.

Of course, if this is Dark Sun -derived, at least in AD&D 2E, Athasians were ridiculously tough and inured to weather. Humans could march, with any non-encumbering load, for 10 hours and make 8 miles, on 1 gallon of water, every day. That's insane! (Of course, larger groups always move slower, but that water intake is still nuts. I drink 1 gallon a day regardless of heat.)

With steady water sources (wells, springs, rivers, oases) outside the town, the siege force would be set just as well as the force inside. In hot and dry climates, preserving food is much easier than in wet ones, so the town might have extremely long-lasting food stores of basics (grains, etc.) that won't go moldy or otherwise spoil.

he sieging army may be strapped for supplies and need long supply lines (caravans from where ever food is available to them), because forage will be scant and mostly exhausted once they've raided all farms, gardens, and pastures in the area.

Note that the inevitable presence of water means the area around towns is pretty much always going to be more fertile than the surrounding desert. That's why you have a town there - it's in the middle of all the little villages that sprung up where the land was fertile. (Although, of course, the fertile areas might have died out over time and the town remained if it was able to bring in food from slightly further off, but generally unless there's a steady source of food nearby, a town won't survive.)

Poisoning or fouling the wells and springs is a possible tactic, but it's a giant "screw you AND screw us!" thing to do. A sieging army leaving, never intending to return, might do it, but the defenders almost certainly won't. Retreating defenders might have tried to hide and block up wells, but in an aquifer region, the sieging army can use normal tactics (probably learned on farms in such a climate) to find places to dig wells.

[Xavrias]

Rhynn, once again very, very helpful. My campaign is also low magic, which makes it extremely hard for the armies to work successfully. Now what is helpful for the enemy army is that a 1/3 or so of their army is made up of undead. Which are extremely helpful (as they don't have to be fed/watered), another question, if the enemies were to get a siege engine or two, what would be a good way for them to move it around the desert. Second, what kind of environmental hazards can I include within my army adventures? And third and last, what kind of lowish level desert monsters can I also include in my enemy army?
Btw these questions are open to anyone, not just Rhynn :smallbiggrin:

[Rhynn]

Actually, a lot of medieval siege engines were built on the spot. No matter the climate, moving around huge siege engines is a lot of work! And the best standby for siege work, trebuchets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet), are freaking enormous, but can be built very fast by competent siege engineers/carpenters with a crew of soldiers.

If the town is in a fertile region, there are probably some kind of trees. These trees may have suitable wood for trebuchets (I'm not an expert on woods or trebuchet construction). The siege force will set up camp, fell all the trees nearby, and construct trebuchets.

I think dragging wheeled siege enginers around a desert might be just plain impossible. I suppose some could be taken apart and carried, maybe on beasts of burden. I don't know at all how well wagons and carts work in deserts. (Although, obviously, not nearly all of a desert region is going to be thick sand and dunes.)

Note, too, that real ancient/medieval sieges usually lasted weeks, months, or years. In the real world, ancient/medieval sieges were hardly ever won by assaulting the walls and gates (although those are the most famous kind of sieges), because fortifications were just that damn good! But in a game, they inevitably are resolved quickly, and that's just fine. A year-long siege may be dramatically interesting, but not in the usual way. (Then again, a long siege of huge proportions may serve as an entire setting, as in the computer RPG Siege of Avalon.)

[Xavrias]

I have described the nearby area of the town as relatively green-yellow grass with a few trees. One of the adventures will be to sneak into the enemy encampment to destroy these when their built. Already the armies have burnt the surrounding farms and slaughtered any remaining farm animals, which has put stress on the food supplies. I think I've decided the town has enough food for approximately 2 months of feeding the populace. This can be stretched out by rationing smaller portions. I'm also considering having an enemy infiltrate the town to destroy portions of the food. If their are any other adventure ideas that would certainly be helpful. Also I don't think this campaign is going to be all war, or all siege for sure. But a large portion of the campaign will likely be warish related.

[Saintheart]

Rather than formal siege engines you could also take a leaf out of The Red Hand of Doom and....

Use hill giants as your siege engines. If they're flinging stuff at the walls and they have levels in Hulking Hurler and use the rules for thrown objects at Complete Warrior you don't need to build the things. Of course, their CR rating might be a bit high for level 2 types.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Sandstorm will definietly be your friend here. I'm preparing for an E6 desert adventure myself (as DM), so I'll probably end up using this thread as reference.

For hazards, you've got sandstorms (split up the army/force them to stop), flash floods, mirages, etc... and those are just the mundane hazards.

Supernatural include Black Sand (does 1d4 negative energy damage a round), Shadowsand (undead shelter beneath it's surface to come out at night), fey oases (appears at dusk, disappears at dawn, taking everyone camped within it's borders with it) and Leech salt flats (a person requires 5 times as much water per day to avoid dehydration (whose rules are also included in Sandstorm)).

Sandstorm also has encounter tables for a wasteland environment, so you could easily pull from there.

For the siege engines, might I suggest cowed Very Young/Young Sand Dragons? They have burrow speeds, fly speeds, immunity to fire as well as tremorsense. In fact, Juvenile Sand Dragons (CR 7) get haboob as an at-will SLA (20ft radius localized sandstorm that gives concealment to anything beyond 5 ft).

[Xavrias]

Thanks again guys for replying,
Saintheart, that is a good idea, and one of my player's backstory is completely based around Giants, but you're also right about the fact that it wouldn't work as even the least tough giants are like cr6/7. Would Ogres work for this purpose though, because it is possible for the players to take down an ogre or two, it'd be tough for sure, but manageable.
Kuul, (sorry for laziness) as you get that desert campaign going, you should inform me about anything interesting desert ideas that you come up with, we can pass ideas back and forth. I've ordered sandstorm and I look forward to seeing what it has in it. Most of those environmental things sound pretty cool. I'm not sure I'll have sand dragons in particular, but the Fire King serves a Red Dragon/Drake, haven't decided, and he might or might not have a wyrmling red dragon. Also, is it just me or is adding the Xoorvintal template from MM5 just make completely and totally better dragons than the normal ones found in the normal MM.
Also what experience do other dms have with Sand Shapers, one of my players are considering it as a prestige class, and I don't have sandstorm yet, what is it like, and is it overpowered, because it sounds like it is.
Anyway if you have any other helpful ideas, please pitch in, and thanks again in advanced.

[Xavrias]

I got Sandstorm, and it is really helpful as promised, many interesting things to look at. I'll be back with more questions soon.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I don't really find Sandshaper to be overpowered - a strong class, yeah, but it's not in the league of Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil.

It's a much stronger choice for sorcerors than wizards because Desert Insight adds a ton of spells to their spells known list.

I'll be here listening if you've got anymore questions, man.

[Emperor Tippy]

-snip-

Except you are forgetting to account for magic. A few hundred bags of holding filled with water jugs can be placed inside one another and carried easily by a single individual.

A single bound (Planar Binding) Lantern Archon can teleport such a bag of holding straight to the army every day. There is no need for carrying supplies with you.

A create food and water trap is only a few thousand GP.

The entire army can also be stored in Smokey Confinement stasis and carried along by a small number of adventurers who then summon up the whole army at their location and ready for battle with a few minutes of work.

Then there are also teleportation circles, which can move the entire cargo load of a Sailing Ship in a single casting (and scrolls of it can be made by level 11 Warlocks and cost less than 5k GP each).

Lines of communication become a virtual non issue in D&D 3.5 with just a little thought and effort.

[Xavrias]

First, I still want to know what people think of the Xorvintaal template for dragons (MM5). I think it's really good.
Second, the one thing I find noticeably awesome is the Sand Shapers resurrection ability at level 10. I don't knoww 100% what level my campaign is going to, though I expect it to be relatively low. But it's like free resurrection forever, considering my entire campaign is a friggin desert.
Aside from that, Tippy, all of those ideas are really good, except that you missed the part where I said my campaign is low magic, some of those are possible, but most would be extremely difficult.
Apart from these, I have a few more questions;
1. What in your opinion would be the best thing to attempt when trying to flee a city when the siege is successful, like if you were attempting to fall back, how would you escape the enemy army?
2. What are some not well known fire monsters, for personal bodyguards to my Fire King BBEG? (low level 2,3, or 4 max)
3. I've been considering having a traitor in the town during the entirety of the battles, is this a good idea at low levels, especially if they trust the traitor, or is this likely to end up getting all my Pcs killed?

[Rhynn]

Except you are forgetting to account for magic.

Nope, I was assuming "regular" levels of magic. Hundreds of bags of holding and cheating with magic "traps" is not regular levels - I've never seen anyone allow beneficial magic "traps" in an actual game.


Lines of communication become a virtual non issue in D&D 3.5 with just a little thought and effort.

You mean "with a little high-level spellcasting" which you for some reason assume is available. This army isn't even going to have hill giants because they have too high a CR, but you assume they're going to have access to 9th-level spells? (Or "just" 11th-level warlocks.)


Aside from that, Tippy, all of those ideas are really good, except that you missed the part where I said my campaign is low magic, some of those are possible, but most would be extremely difficult.

And that.

[Emperor Tippy]

Nope, I was assuming "regular" levels of magic. Hundreds of bags of holding and cheating with magic "traps" is not regular levels -
For a nations army? It's chump change.


I've never seen anyone allow beneficial magic "traps" in an actual game.
*shrug*
They are listed and called out as existing in both Dungeonscape and the Stronghold Builders guide.


You mean "with a little high-level spellcasting" which you for some reason assume is available. This army isn't even going to have hill giants because they have too high a CR, but you assume they're going to have access to 9th-level spells? (Or "just" 11th-level warlocks.)
It's not that high of a level of spell casting. One Planar Binding of a Lantern Archon and you have a creature with at will Greater Teleport (and can carry a Type 3 Bag of Holding with it).

One 5th level spell is not "high magic", especially not when talking about nations as a whole.

And that is leaving aside any means of traveling to Sigil, the City of Brass, Union, or any other planar metropolis.


And that.
"Low magic" is quite relative.

[Rhynn]

First, I still want to know what people think of the Xorvintaal template for dragons (MM5). I think it's really good.

Objectively, out of context, it's terrible: it loses spellcasting.

However, that's the point: it makes the dragons easier to create/manage/run, with no spell selections to think on and use.

Use it if you don't want to deal with spellcasting for your dragon(s).


1. What in your opinion would be the best thing to attempt when trying to flee a city when the siege is successful, like if you were attempting to fall back, how would you escape the enemy army?

The city will probably have multiple gates, and probably only one will fall. The others may be "invested" (an enemy force left to delay any attempt to break out); usually a siege force has to be several times the size of the defending force, so they can leave enough at the gates (chokepoints) to at least seriously delay any attempt to break out. Still, trying to get out a gate is a decent option. There's also likely to be some sally ports, "hidden" gates (behind a corner in the wall, a natural feature, a plain secret door, etc.) that you could use to flee. Failing that, get on the wall, find a good stretch with no enemies on it, and climb down with a rope and run as fast as you can. If the enemy pickets run all the way around the castle (huge job, but theoretically they will), there's probably going to be guards (spaced fairly far apart) you'll have to overcome fast and quiet, and there may be mounted patrols, but this is your best option. Remember, the siege force had a big interest in keeping small, stealthy groups from leaving the besieged city - they may abandon these measures when they break through the gates (a Chaotic orc horde would probably all rush for the broken gate or section of wall), or they may not.


2. What are some not well known fire monsters, for personal bodyguards to my Fire King BBEG? (low level 2,3, or 4 max)

MM5 has CR 4 magmacore golems, although given their death throes, they make slightly bad bodyguards...

I don't know about "not well known," but MM1's flamebrother salamander is CR 3, magmin is CR 3, mephits are CR 3, azer is CR 2... I've never used any of those except mephits that I can recall, myself. That's what it comes down to, really - have you used them?

Rutterkin (Fiendish Codex I) are CR 3 tanar'ri, thus fire-resistant. Legion devils (Fiendish Codex II) are CR 3 baatezu, thus fire-immune. Both are very appropriate military-type minions, IMO. Spinagons (FCII) are CR 4 baatezu.


3. I've been considering having a traitor in the town during the entirety of the battles, is this a good idea at low levels, especially if they trust the traitor, or is this likely to end up getting all my Pcs killed?

Depends on how you run it. If the traitor is supplying the enemy information, and there's clues to be had and deductions to be made (remember, 3+ clues per item of information the PCs are "supposed" to deduce, because they'll miss 1 and ignore 1; there should be multiple items of information pointing to X being a traitor), then it sounds good.


For a nations army?

You came up with nations. The OPs is talking about a kobold who leads a bunch of savage humanoids.

The answer to everything is not Tippyverse.

[TripleD]

One thing no one has mentioned so far is armour.

It's covered in Sandstorm, and if you feel like a bit of extra bookkeeping, different armours cause you to dehydrate and exhaust faster. Heavy armour is basically a death trap if worn for any length of time.

Paladins, Fighters and Clerics who rely on heavy armour will be at a real disadvantage here.

[Xavrias]

Once again Rhynn, very helpful. Thank you. As for Xoorvintal, I much prefer dragons without spellcasting, mostly for the reason that it's a dragon. When was the last time you saw Smaug cast spells?
Also thanks for the siege info, I'd forgotten about sally ports, very helpful. All of the guards also give the pcs something to do during the escape. So that's alright. i have used both mephits and magmins multiple times in my campaigns, but never Azers, that is a possibility, as are demons or devils.
I think I can make the traitor work, I have the basis of clues for my traitor. let's just hope my pcs aren't thickheaded.
TripleD, also helpful, very few of the enemies or the allies wear heavy armor, or armor at all. They mostly wear leather, occasionally someone wears a chain shirt. very rarely does anyone wear anything heavy, very rarely medium.

[Rhynn]

Once again Rhynn, very helpful. Thank you. As for Xoorvintal, I much prefer dragons without spellcasting, mostly for the reason that it's a dragon. When was the last time you saw Smaug cast spells?

Well, Middle Earth magic is subtle, but dragons were exceedingly magical in Middle Earth. They mostly used charms, though: their voice could lull you to sleep, warp your perceptions, or maybe even make you think or do what the dragon wanted. Glaurung (from the tale of Turin Turambar) used these powers more than Smaug does in The Hobbit, though.

But dragons with no "spells" are a very legit fantasy thing. (Even the Middle Earth draconic magic could easily be done as a few specific spell-like abilities. Heck, it's probably why red dragons get suggestion SLA.)

[Xavrias]

I'm probably keeping the Spell-like abilities even with the Xoorvintal template, just losing the spellcasting, also probably not having the ally things or whatever their called for the Xoorvintal.
Sandstorm contains terrain where they suggest plains of glass, created from the sand when the temperature becomes unearthly hot. What is the actual temperature that would be required for such a thing! It seems absurd to me without some sort of magic, or lava, or something.

[Rhynn]

It varies enormously, since sand is basically rock, and the temperature required thus depends on the type of sand, but apparently we're talking temperatures like 1200ºC (2200ºF) and over. Basically, lightning strikes can turn sand into glass. The sun? Not unless you're flying towards it...

FWIW, red dragon breath probably could (and would) turn sand into glass, since even a candle flame burns at 1000ºC (1800ºF) and oxyhydrogen goes past 2000ºC (3600ºF).

... actually, given that blue dragons live in deserts, there probably would be a lot of patches of glass, although they'd largely get buried by sand. Maybe "dragonglass" is a valuable exotic material or spell/magic item component hunted by industrious desert scavengers...

Edit: Apparently magma wouldn't be too great at making glass, since it ranges from 700°C to 1300°C, with extremes at 600°C and 1600°C (depending on rock type, obviously). So some types of magma would be hot enough, but then they'd probably just turn the sand into magma too... lava does create some glass, though (it's a matter of his the stuff cools).

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well guys, Obsidian is a thing. Just saying.:smallbiggrin:

As for xorvintaal dragons... I made a thread last year about it. You can read it, if you'd like (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252256).

[Rhynn]

Well guys, Obsidian is a thing. Just saying.:smallbiggrin:

Yup, that's lava, not magma.

[ksbsnowowl]

If CR 7 Hill Giants are too much, you could always go with the CR 5 Skullcrusher Ogres from Monster Manual 3. They get racial Rock Throwing for 2d6+7 damage up to a range of 500 feet.

If you redid its feats, you could either get it Far Shot to up the distance to 1000 feet, or go with Power Attack, Brutal Throw, and Power Throw to increase his accuracy and damage with his boulders.

You could do both Far Shot and Brutal Throw.

But CR 5 is the lowest you're going to get with a rock throwing giant, I think.

[Mithril Leaf]

For a nations army? It's chump change.


*shrug*
They are listed and called out as existing in both Dungeonscape and the Stronghold Builders guide.


It's not that high of a level of spell casting. One Planar Binding of a Lantern Archon and you have a creature with at will Greater Teleport (and can carry a Type 3 Bag of Holding with it).

One 5th level spell is not "high magic", especially not when talking about nations as a whole.

And that is leaving aside any means of traveling to Sigil, the City of Brass, Union, or any other planar metropolis.


"Low magic" is quite relative.

While all this is true, you can just have a single guy with a decanter of endless water. It's 30 gallons per round forever at the low cost of 9000 GP. Cost is between a Type 3 and a Type 4 bag of holding. 9000 GP isn't much for a whole army, even at relatively low levels. It would probably be one of the most popular items to make in a desert setting.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I have to say, for a lower-magic-type setting, I actually quite like Mithral Leaf's suggestion. It's pretty much a mobile fountain (that never runs dry). Hells, even having two of these (one for each end of the army train) would be able to service the entire army efficiently.

Tippy's version of 'low-magic' is quite different than the rest of ours, I'm sure.

[Xavrias]

Thanks all for replying, I don't have enough time for a long response, but I love all the ideas, I'll be writing a longer response later.

[Xavrias]

First off.... Totally forgot about obsidian, now I feel stupid. Very good idea. Plus the black obsidian would raise the temperature even more, causing anyone attempting to cross the expanse extreme discomfort.
Snow Owl, that would be a good idea, but I think it's still going to be out of my level range. But I'll definitely keep them in mind for later use.
Decanters of endless water would be pretty simple. Though they seem like they'd be extremely over-powered in this type of campaign. What do you think Kuul, how hard will it be to obtain a decanter of endless water in your campaign. I'd appreciate feedback on that. But anyway, the enemy army is low-level as well, I don't think they'll have one. But also a good idea for the future. Thanks again. Going to be having my session soon enough so I'll have more questions after that, I have no doubt.

[Kuulvheysoon]

What do you think Kuul, how hard will it be to obtain a decanter of endless water in your campaign. I'd appreciate feedback on that. But anyway, the enemy army is low-level as well, I don't think they'll have one. But also a good idea for the future. Thanks again. Going to be having my session soon enough so I'll have more questions after that, I have no doubt.

They're not going to exist in my world at all (except maybe one as an artifact), because they need a CL of 9th to create, and E6 tops out at CL 8 (with Artificers, but I'm not going to be having any in my low-magic world).

I might make a series of epic feats to raise a caster's CL to the heights needed (likely +1 CL per feat), though.

[Mutazoia]

If you can find a copy I highly suggest checking out "Bloodstone Pass" to see a good example of running a mass battle involving PC's

[Xavrias]

Yeah that's along the lines of what I was thinking, not that low, as my campaign is slightly higher level (10 max maybe), not sure yet. But I was definitely thinking they would be hard to obtain, and very few people would have them, if they weren't simply locked away for the sorcerer kings use only. (Which by the way in this version of dark sun campaign type, there are 5, who all work together and practically own the entire world, though there is still large areas unconquered as well as much infighting between the provinces, that the sorcerer kings do not stop as long as they get their taxes, etc)

Edit: Where could I find such a thing? I'm looking, haven't found it so far.

[Emperor Tippy]

They're not going to exist in my world at all (except maybe one as an artifact), because they need a CL of 9th to create, and E6 tops out at CL 8 (with Artificers, but I'm not going to be having any in my low-magic world).

ECL 6 can hit upwards of CL 12 actually.

[Kuulvheysoon]

ECL 6 can hit upwards of CL 12 actually.

Most players aren't you, Tippy. Let me rephrase that - as far as my low/mid-op players know, they can't create it.

[Xavrias]

So thanks everyone for their input on the beforehand war adventures. Throughout the last week my group has managed to pull through the war and defeat the said Fire King, though their will be some lasting effects. Anyway, that part is not entirely important, though I suppose you guys will probably be willing to help anyway.
So I'll give you some info, the war went mostly as planned. The pcs were pushed back multiple towns. But finally were helped in the capital of this small kingdom. The armies fought as a group of adventurers (pcs included) as well as some others snuck around the back and through the army to the command tent. When they got there they had a large fight and the pcs killed the fire King, as well as his pet wyrmling dragon. He told of the bigger dragon that he was servings coming (also in one of my player's backstory). The dragon's name is Hoondarhh.
Now to the questions, my players once they returned to the capital were asked to join the army as the assassins/bodyguards of the 'Tyrannical' Lady D'hmis. The ruler of said kingdom. So if they join the ruler, I'm gonna need some different kinds of tasks for her to ask of the players, as well as their continued story goals. (My players are currently level 3 btw)
Also one of my players is a homebrewed class, a favored of the winds, and he is travelling to the top of a mountain to make a pact with one of the elemental lords of wind. So I need some ideas on what an elemental lord of air would ask, other than fealty for my player's power over wind.
And last, My players are going to be travelling out into the desert with a templar to find a lost tomb and recover a lost artifact. So again I need ideas of interesting monsters, and environmental hazards on the way to the tomb. As well as interesting traps, maze ideas and things to confuse my players once they get to the tomb's inside.
So as for a recap;
1. Evil Rulers tasks for Pcs
2. What would an Elemental lord ask in exchange for power.
3. Ideas for the deep waste and an ancient tomb
Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for answers.