Non casters using wands

[flamewolf393]

I know that using a wand for the first time requires a UMD check, and once you successfully cast it, you never have to make a check again, for that specific wand.

My question, if you have someone that can show you exactly how to use a particular wand, like say the wizard that made it for you, can you skip that initial UMD check and just be able to use it?

I want my low skill points fighter to have a wand of cure wounds, and for my archer to have a wand of mend for his arrows :smallbiggrin:

[eggynack]

Are you sure that you just have to make the UMD check once? It looks like it's an every time kinda deal. The relevant text is, "You make a Use Magic Device check each time you activate a device such as a wand." I don't see anything that acts against that, though I may be mistaken.

Edit: For more evidence, "You get a special +2 bonus on your Use Magic Device check if you’ve activated the item in question at least once before." It's an advantage, but not nearly as big as you think. Thus, I'm going to have to say that the answer to your question is a no.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Wow, you've been misinformed.

You've got to make that dc20 umd check for every activation of a given wand.

Edit: ninja'd

[Curmudgeon]

Edit: For more evidence, "You get a special +2 bonus on your Use Magic Device check if you’ve activated the item in question at least once before."
Please note that that's a bonus only if you continue to make Activate Blindly checks for a wand you haven't properly identified. You must have successfully identified a wand before you're allowed to make Use a Wand checks.
The rules for Use Magic Device, application Use a Wand:

This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.
The basic rules for spell trigger item (wand or staff) activation:

Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. So not only is that evidence that eggynack's original answer is right, it also means that your Use a Wand DC will never decrease. And does your "low skill points fighter" have a way of identifying any wand? The Identify (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/identify.htm) spell isn't usually up a Fighter's alley, and just because a wand was in the Cure Light Wounds bin at Magic Mart doesn't mean it wasn't misfiled.) If not, Use a Wand will be out of reach, and only Activate Blindly (with the +2 bonus after first successful use) is even possible. So that's DC 25 the first time, and effectively DC 23 every time thereafter.

[flamewolf393]

@curmundgeon. I'm not talking about just picking up a wand at a store, I'm talking about having someone (preferably the person that MADE the wand) actually showing him how to use it. Why would this not work? Its not like wands need magical energy to activate them.

As for the rest of it, this is legitimately confusing to me. Why should you continue to have to make checks even once you *know* exactly what it does and how to activate it? I have never played a game where you had to make checks at all once you had successfully figured it out. Wands are a spell *trigger* not spell *completion*, which means its a completely mundane act to activate it, whether a command word or gesture or whatever. The activation method does not change, so why need additional checks?

[Flickerdart]

If a 767 pilot showed you how to fly the plane, would you be able to do it perfectly every single time?

[Deepbluediver]

As for the rest of it, this is legitimately confusing to me. Why should you continue to have to make checks even once you *know* exactly what it does and how to activate it? I have never played a game where you had to make checks at all once you had successfully figured it out. Wands are a spell *trigger* not spell *completion*, which means its a completely mundane act to activate it, whether a command word or gesture or whatever. The activation method does not change, so why need additional checks?

That sounds like a houserule to me. The way all skills function (pretty much) is that you need to make the skill check every time you want to take a particular action action.

[Kelb_Panthera]

RAW and logic don't always see eye to eye.

If you really need a fluff reason you could say that activating a wand is a complicated mental procedure that casters are long since accustomed to from manually shaping spells without a device. It's difficult for non-casters to emulate this procedure and that difficulty is represented by making a UMD check each time they make the attempt.

If you really want to get around it that badly, you can take magical training (from races of faerun) and arcane disciple: healing (complete divine). Then you'll be able to activate wands and staves of spells from the healing domain without making any checks at all and scrolls of the same with only a CL check.

[Eldonauran]

As for the rest of it, this is legitimately confusing to me. Why should you continue to have to make checks even once you *know* exactly what it does and how to activate it? I have never played a game where you had to make checks at all once you had successfully figured it out. Wands are a spell *trigger* not spell *completion*, which means its a completely mundane act to activate it, whether a command word or gesture or whatever. The activation method does not change, so why need additional checks?

If you are looking for a non-mechanical answer for that question, consider that the difference between a spellcaster and a non-spellcaster is a lot more than just 'Oh, this is how you do it!' and more along the lines of directing the forces of magic through sheer force of will. You have to understand how it works (like explaining Calculus to a kindgardener), how to direct it (try flying an airplane without training) and how to keep yourself aware of what is going on around you (like concentrating on a spell without provoking).

All of that is wrapped up within the UMD flavor. You make the check every time because you have to focus on getting it just right, as that is the only way you've figured out how to do it. You don't have room for error like someone trained in magic, able to twist and turn the energy on the fly to compensate for fluctuating magics. This is how it worked last time!


Edit: Ninja'd like a boss. Multiple times. :smallamused:

[Callin]

Here is a feat that comes close to what you are thinking about.


MAGIC DEVICE ATTUNEMENT
You have a knack for activating familiar magic items.
Prerequisite: Use Magic Device 1 rank.
Benefit: If you successfully activate an item with the Use
Magic Device skill, you can take a free action to attune yourself
to the item. For the next 24 hours, you can activate that
item without making further Use Magic Device checks.
You can attune yourself to only one item at a time. If you
attune yourself to a second item, the previous attunement
ends

[JusticeZero]

I'm going to guess that the intent is something like the party wizard giving the fighter his own Enlarge wand. All the above is correct, it requires training above and beyond saying "Wave it like so and say 'Expandocus!'" The guy needs to make a check every time he uses it.

[Hunter Noventa]

I'm going to guess that the intent is something like the party wizard giving the fighter his own Enlarge wand. All the above is correct, it requires training above and beyond saying "Wave it like so and say 'Expandocus!'" The guy needs to make a check every time he uses it.

Yeah, this would be a Command Word item, which is priced differently than a wand because anyone can use it.

You can make Command Word items that have charges just like a wand though, it would cheapen them quite a bit, though the wand would still be the cheapest option.

[Gildedragon]

A DM could give a circumstance bonus in such a case. But why not, instead of going for a wand, go for a charged wondrous item shaped like a wooden batton with a command word activation? That is only a x900 vs the x750 of a wand.
If you say ask the crafter to restrict it to be usable by non spellcasters the cost drops to x630ish (I'd personally keep it at x750)
And voila you have a "wand"

As such I would say an item that lets someone treat a wand as a command word item ought to be some 300 gp. Homebrew but not unreasonable. Uses the throat slot.

[Curmudgeon]

it requires training above and beyond saying "Wave it like so and say 'Expandocus!'"

Spell Trigger

Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken.
The rules say it's just a single word, not "a single word per similar spell trigger item". In the games I've played in it's always the same word for all spell trigger items. The word is just the magic-speak for "Activate!"; the stuff that matters for each item is in the "special knowledge of spellcasting".

[Flickerdart]

A DM could give a circumstance bonus in such a case. But why not, instead of going for a wand, go for a charged wondrous item shaped like a wooden batton with a command word activation? That is only a x900 vs the x750 of a wand.
If you say ask the crafter to restrict it to be usable by non spellcasters the cost drops to x630ish (I'd personally keep it at x750)
And voila you have a "wand"

As such I would say an item that lets someone treat a wand as a command word item ought to be some 300 gp. Homebrew but not unreasonable. Uses the throat slot.
While the price comparison (750 vs 900gp) is correct for 1st level spells, for 2nd level spells it is 4500 for the wand and 5400 for the stick, a 900gp difference. At spell level 4, the maximum for wands, we'd be looking at 21k for the wand and 25.2k for the stick. A 300gp item to get a 4200gp discount? Everyone would buy it every time.

[Gildedragon]

I expressed the difference as a multiplication operation; thus the x before the number. It is not intended as a flat difference.
As to the low cost of the item; it is quite low; but seeing how it benefits low-skillpoint non-spellcasters the most (a spellcaster is better off just using wands, and a high skill point character can afford to invest in UMD) I think it is not that far off the mark.

[Flickerdart]

I expressed the difference as a multiplication operation; thus the x before the number.
To be pedantic for a moment, x is not the multiplicative sign. That would be either × or *.

Also, I am not so sure that encouraging low skill point mundanes to become WBLmancers is really the way to go about improving them.

[Gildedragon]

Fair enough on both counts.
Still; if they wanted to be able to use wands to contribute to the party outside of combat; because the cleric and rogue passed out, or the wizard got AMF shackled, or they want to have a bit more diversity; giving them use of wands isn't terrible. Not optimal, but flamewolf is asking how to make a fighter wandier.

Though 300 does diverge significantly from the 40,000 that a +20 UMD charm would fetch. It IS more limited; maybe 300 is too lowball an estimate.
4k for unlimited use, 600 for 3/day?

Now if one doesn't mind burning 2 wis; there is a feat in drag mag that grants +10 to UMD a limited number or times per day.
That with a headband of persuasion, a +2 UMD item, and a masterwork tool gets you pretty much there. Throw in a circumstance bonus for having the thing explained to you and voila? +19 to your roll

[gurgleflep]

If a 767 pilot showed you how to fly the plane, would you be able to do it perfectly every single time?

I wouldn't even be able to fly it the first time! :smallbiggrin:

[Deepbluediver]

I wouldn't even be able to fly it the first time! :smallbiggrin:

Psht, flying is easy. Its landing that's hard.

Actually no, landing is pretty easy as well.
Landing that you can walk away from. Now THERE'S the tricky bit. :smalltongue:

[gurgleflep]

Psht, flying is easy. Its landing that's hard.

Actually no, landing is pretty easy as well.
Landing that you can walk away from. Now THERE'S the tricky bit. :smalltongue:

I'm afraid of heights, so that would complicate things quite a bit. The sad thing? I'm 6'4".

[ericgrau]

Even though you have to make a check every time, you get unlimited retries without burning charges on failures. Until you roll a 1. Then you need to wait 24 hours, that's all. Nothing bad happens unless you fail by 10 or more. So for spells like cure light wounds and mending where you have plenty of time to cast, all you need is a +10 modifier. If you want it to be more reliable you could carry a backup wand.

[Gnoman]

You could spend a 1-level dip in Sorcerer, Wizard, or Cleric (for divine wands). Since wands don't depend on the user's caster level, there's no detriment to having a low CL, and it also opens up a few potential low level slots (depending on ability scores) that could be used for minor out-of-combat issues. Personally, I'd prefer this to wasting spell points on UMD or taking a feat.

[eggynack]

You could spend a 1-level dip in Sorcerer, Wizard, or Cleric (for divine wands). Since wands don't depend on the user's caster level, there's no detriment to having a low CL, and it also opens up a few potential low level slots (depending on ability scores) that could be used for minor out-of-combat issues. Personally, I'd prefer this to wasting spell points on UMD or taking a feat.
Better yet, you can spend a one level dip in cleric and take the magic domain. That gives you access to both arcane and divine wands. For bonus points, you can use your other domain to effectively get a second feat. One level cleric dips are amazing. There's even a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773) about it. If you're only taking one level, you don't lose much by going cloistered either. That means access to knowledge devotion, and you can make the third one travel devotion, for extra combat maneuvering. It's good, both as a replacement for a barbarian dip, and as an addition to raise your mobility past pounce.

[Chronos]

Or just take the standard travel domain power. One round per day of Freedom of Movement can really save your bacon. Or the Luck domain, for a reroll each day.

[eggynack]

Very true. Cleric dips are just sweet in general. You even get a handful of free first level cleric spells, and those can't possibly be completely useless. There's a ton of good stuff out there if you know where to look. Of course, you could always just skip everything else and just be a cleric. Clerics are cool.

[ericgrau]

You could spend a 1-level dip in Sorcerer, Wizard, or Cleric (for divine wands). Since wands don't depend on the user's caster level, there's no detriment to having a low CL, and it also opens up a few potential low level slots (depending on ability scores) that could be used for minor out-of-combat issues. Personally, I'd prefer this to wasting spell points on UMD or taking a feat.
Even several skill points seem far cheaper than an entire level. But for the OP it could work out because his levels are in fighter and such and he's going to have to dip one way or the other. Unless there's something out there with full BAB and UMD? For out of combat stuff like CLW and mending, UMD is fine. So if he can hold on to his BAB too that would be ideal. Rather than saving a few hundred gp on arrows and CLW potions only to lose thousands of gp worth of weapon attack bonus.

[Gnoman]

What do you gain from a single Fighter level? 1d8+Con HP, decent Fort and good BaB progression, possibly a mediocre bonus feat.

What do you gain from Cleric 1: 1d8+Con HP, decent Will and BaB progression, the ability to use all divine wands without UMD, maybe a few low-level spell slots.

That really isn't a drawback.

[eggynack]

What do you gain from a single Fighter level? 1d8+Con HP, decent Fort and good BaB progression, possibly a mediocre bonus feat.

What do you gain from Cleric 1: 1d8+Con HP, decent Will and BaB progression, the ability to use all divine wands without UMD, maybe a few low-level spell slots.

That really isn't a drawback.
Make that the ability to use all divine and arcane wands without UMD, as well as a couple of other feats. Also, if you're not playing with fractional BAB, you don't lose any attack bonus by going cloistered cleric instead of regular cleric. You basically lose a hit point, and gain tons of skill points, some spells, and either knowledge domain or devotion. I don't see a real downside.

[ericgrau]

Sometimes when he's not healing up, fixing arrows and casting 1st level spells he might want to hit stuff. Maybe once in a while.

Outside of asking him to rebuild his entire character... it's time to find full BAB + UMD or a really swanky domain that fits with the OP's build.

[eggynack]

Sometimes when he's not healing up, fixing arrows and casting 1st level spells he might want to hit stuff. Maybe once in a while.

Outside of asking him to rebuild his entire character... it's time to find full BAB + UMD or a really swanky domain that fits with the OP's build.
You mean like knowledge and travel devotion? Those can do some crazy work towards making a melee character amazing. We've come up with some pretty great ones, and I posted an entire guide purely based around dipping cleric, so it might behoove you to read stuff I've posted. Seriously, cleric dips are amazing. I'm not saying that it's what he has to do, but he can do a lot worse.

[ericgrau]

Yeah I do tend to skim, that can work. Forgot how nutso those were; don't usually play with stuff like that. It's hard for the OP advance more than 1-2 knoweldge skills though, making a dip for that a net loss to-hit in most fights without further multiclassing into ranger or such. Also burns a feat.

Question on travel devotion: It's a swift action to activate and then a swift action to move. Does that mean he can't actually swift move until round 2? That seems like a bit of a damper on the most important round for pseudo-pounce.

So they could work, but now that I read them it's not straightforward.

[Tulya]

Though it's important to know if you're playing with multiclassing penalties, and if so, if you have Favored Class: Any, Fighter, or Cleric to offset them. Otherwise, the XP penalty is probably not worth the ability to use wands without checks.

[eggynack]

Yeah I do tend to skim, that can work. Forgot how nutso those were; don't usually play with stuff like that. It's hard for the OP advance more than 1-2 knoweldge skills though, making a dip for that a net loss to-hit in most fights without further multiclassing into ranger or such. Also burns a feat.

Question on travel devotion: It's a swift action to activate and then a swift action to move. Does that mean he can't actually swift move until round 2? That seems like a bit of a damper on the most important round for pseudo-pounce.

So they could work, but now that I read them it's not straightforward.
You have a point. It's still quite sweet though, especially if you're combining it with a second mobility aid, like pounce. A crazy series of dips is how most melee builds work anyway, so it all kinda works out in the end. Knowledge devotion doesn't burn a feat though, because you're trading it for the free knowledge domain you get from cloistered cleric. Alternately, you could just use knowledge domain as your source for the skill, and take the knowledge devotion separately. I don't think you lose much of anything by going cloistered cleric rather instead of regular cleric, so it's a good deal. You've gotta love taking a series of one and two level dips, leading into a prestige class or three.

[Chronos]

All you'd need to make Knowledge Devotion useful would be a single point in each of the relevant Knowledges. As long as you're trained in the skill, the feat is guaranteed to give you at least +1/+1 (and sometimes you'll get a lucky roll for +2/+2). So the only time the dip would hurt you at all is one level out of five, when you've delayed getting your next iterative.

[Ezberron]

Mal: "...Just get us on the ground"
Wash: "That part will happen pretty definitely..."



Psht, flying is easy. Its landing that's hard.

Actually no, landing is pretty easy as well.
Landing that you can walk away from. Now THERE'S the tricky bit. :smalltongue:

[eggynack]

You're not really -1 behind weapon focus, because weapon focus is kinda terrible. The reason that an effective weapon focus is good here, is that you're basically getting it as an addendum to perfect wand use, a bunch of spells, and some third thing that presumably makes use of turn undead. I mentioned travel, which is great, but animal devotion is also great on a fighter. There's a bunch of other ones in the handbook I linked, and they range from powers that can define the way you approach combat, like travel devotion, or background additions to his power, like law devotion. Any one is probably not worth it, but in combination, you can do some great stuff. You're not actually behind weapon focus, because you can gain an extra +3 to attack for a couple of combats a day. It's all pretty sweet.

Edit: I knew in my heart that I should have quoted. Anyways, the general ideas here are pretty good. You can get a really good boost to fighting ability if that's what you're aiming for.

[ericgrau]

Knowledge devotion doesn't burn a feat though, because you're trading it for the free knowledge domain you get from cloistered cleric.
You can trade a domain for a feat? That's what confused me about the matter and made me want to forget the whole thing. Whether or not you're spending a feat in exchange for some trade-off.

Original post from before:



Except you lose a BAB to get it so a +1 is break even. You can get ranger levels, int, or something else for skills, but then you lose other ability scores, other class features or more feats. There are 6 knowledges for identifying monsters though nature and arcana cover more types than the other 4. If you max it out and have a decent int you can average +3s at level 10. That takes a lot of skill ranks which could have gone into other class features or feats, so it's not for everyone. Still if no one else in the party has those knowledges it might be nice, plus there's your 2nd domain depending on deity, and there's wand usage of course. It's just not an automatic reason to dip without some planning.

[Karnith]

You can trade a domain for a feat?
Well, for a domain feat for a domain offered by your deity. See the Complete Champion section on Clerics and Domain Feats for more information.

[eggynack]

You can trade a domain for a feat?
Eyup. The specific quote is on page 53 of complete champion, and states, "In addition, you can choose to give up access to a domain in exchange for the corresponding domain feat." It's one of the reasons that cleric dips are so frigging cool.

[ericgrau]

So dip cloistered cleric, trade knowledge domain for knowledge devotion, put only 1 rank in each of 6 knowledge skills to break even. Then select a deity with the magic domain for wand usage, and 1 other domain that corresponds to a devotion feat you like. So you can trade your 2nd domain for it to get it for free. I think I got a headache.

[eggynack]

So dip cloistered cleric, trade knowledge domain for knowledge devotion, put only 1 rank in each of 6 knowledge skills to break even. Then select a deity with the magic domain for wand usage, and 1 other domain that corresponds to a devotion feat you like. I think I got a headache.
It's a little complicated, but it's not all that bad. Also, you can always go the route of worshipping an ideal, if specific deities aren't working for your combo. Right now, I'm thinking animal, because that seems to make up for a lot on melee types, and then whatever else you can manage. The third needs to be magic, as per the OP, so you're really only picking the one domain or devotion. Law seems great, but I'm really liking animal, for the sheer versatility of it all. Travel is nice too, if you're not getting a pounce ability from anywhere else. I also haven't really looked into what first level spells would be nice on a fighter, because there's gotta be something out there. It's obviously not going to blow anyone's mind, but a good mix of utility and buff spells could really make things interesting.

[ericgrau]

But you can pick up the feats without even being a cleric. Does that mean you can be a non-cleric who worships an ideal and start taking random devotion feats?

And there is more to the madness. Somehow they thought it was ok to give you 2 feats (which is actually 3 feats) from 1 level because you're losing access to some spells. Except you don't actually care about the spells because you're dipping. Ugh.

I didn't really think about the spells because there's little that can't be replicated with minimal gp in potions. I'd get 24/7 endure elements and scroll the rest for the occasional buffing round.

[Siosilvar]

So dip cloistered cleric, trade knowledge domain for knowledge devotion, put only 1 rank in each of 6 knowledge skills to break even. Then select a deity with the magic domain for wand usage, and 1 other domain that corresponds to a devotion feat you like. So you can trade your 2nd domain for it to get it for free. I think I got a headache.

What's complicated about that?

..

Y'know, devotion feats don't appear to have prereqs. Any deity with the magic domain will do, assuming you can find someone to Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle for you. Or you could just cleric-of-an-ideal if you can come up with something appropriate - Law and Travel are easy enough nabs with things like "protecting the world's knowledge" or "spreading wisdom to the masses".


To answer the original post's question: In a stricter game, I'd give an ad-hoc +2 circumstance bonus on activating the wand, and you can use "Use a Wand" (DC20) instead of "Activate Blindly" (DC25). Honestly, despite the effective +7, you're probably still likely to fail, though. Such is D&D for noncasters. :smallsigh:

[eggynack]

But you can pick up the feats without even being a cleric. Does that mean you can be a non-cleric who worships an ideal and start taking random devotion feats?

And there is more. Somehow they thought it was ok to give you 2 feats (actually 3 feats) from 1 level because you're losing access to some spells. Except you don't actually care about the spells because you're dipping. Ugh.
Yep on the first one. They're often better on a cleric, because some of them get you extra uses tuned to turn undead, but some of them are not like that. Knowledge is one of the most notable ones, but there're probably other standouts. On the second one, yeah, basically. It's not so crazy powerful that everyone's going to want to take it, partially due to BAB concerns, but it's powerful enough that you'd be remiss not to at least consider a dip on any build you're putting together, if only to see how it'd help out.

There're some other great dips out there, several of which are probably better. I mean, barbarian is getting you pounce, which is one of the most important melee abilities in the game, and you get whirling frenzy as a bonus on top of that. You can also get prerequisiteless trip after another level, which is basically two feats in one. ToB dips are also great, effectively netting you a bunch of moderately powerful feats, and incarnum is apparently near its best if you just take one level of it.

Really, the reason I brought up cleric dipping is because of the wand thing. The other two feats are mostly just keeping you on par with all other potential melee dips, and isn't necessarily getting there. Still, I'm liking animal devotion more and more as I think about it. You get the scaling strength boost ability, which is obviously super important, and you get a flight ability on top of that, which is basically a necessity on any melee guy who wants to keep up. Knowledge devotion is mostly just to keep you on par with BAB, which is a job it does adequately. Cleric is a fantastic dip, which is why I bring it up a lot, but you'd always be better just making your build more cleric. Basically, I see it as regular and helpful really powerful, rather than intrusive and game warping really powerful. It's a type of really powerful that I like to see in the game.

[ericgrau]

Well, too each gaming group his own then. I started looking at a few other devotions and they all seem uber. IMO it's a tough choice. Not sure why knowledge devotion gets so much attention, it seems like the worst since it costs resources to get more than a +1. But it comes free. The animal devotion flight's main impressive use is obstacle avoidance as early as level 1. The maneuverability doesn't usually allow full attacks (you can't stay still), which is meh against high level flight problems. Normally you'd switch to a ground target or invest in better flight.

[eggynack]

Well, too each gaming group his own then. I started looking at a few other devotions and they all seem uber. IMO it's a tough choice. Not sure why knowledge devotion gets so much attention, it seems like the worst since it costs resources to get more than a +1. But it comes free. The animal devotion flight's main impressive use is obstacle avoidance as early as level 1. The maneuverability doesn't usually allow full attacks, which is meh against high level flight problems. Normally you'd switch to a ground target or invest in better flight.
I dunno. I just don't see any devotions or domains that I'd consider uber. They're reasonably powerful, sure, and they do great work towards filling out a build with options, but they're not going to break the game. I can't actually imagine a situation where a cleric dip is going to be a destabilizing force in a game, even if that game is pretty low optimization. Anyways, knowledge devotion is more nifty on builds that are pumping knowledge anyway, and want to turn that into super attack bonuses. It's like a better weapon focus, even if you never really push serious resources into it, and if you're playing an archivist, factotum, or even a truenamer, you're getting a pretty huge bonus in combat. It doesn't take that work to optimize it either. Just toss on some skill boosting items, and you're pretty much set.

On animal devotion, the flight spell is mostly for utility purposes. If you need it in combat, you're going to be really glad you have it, but it's not a perfect solution. The real thing you want is the ape's fury option. It gives you a minor rage ability, and it scales reasonably well as you level. It's mostly great because it fills out even more of the loss to BAB. Cheetah's sprint and serpent's strike don't seem very good to me, but you're never going to be sad that you have extra options available. I don't see where you're getting the idea that these powers are uber, because animal devotion is one of the best, and the limited uses per day and limited value on each of the modes means that there are lots of other feats that I'd probably choose over it on a melee build. It'd probably be something that really advanced my core proficiency, like knock down, or shock trooper, or even imperious command. Those feats are where it's at. devotions are often quite good, and getting three of them is really nice, even if one is set at knowledge devotion, but I can't really see anything approximating game breaking capacity.

[ericgrau]

Just going alphabetically I noticed chaos right away. +1d6 to hit instead of +1, scales to a little more. Half the time you get AC, but that's still not bad. A +3.5 and later 4.5 & 5.5 rarely catches anyone's attention, but it is a great way to break a low op game. Been there by mistake. Instead of saying "bonus to hit", multiply those by roughly 10% and say "extra damage on full attacks". Now think of that in low op. Per feat. You might take multiple feats while your other low op buddy cries in the corner. And x6-7% extra damage for single attacks, except in certain cases since unlike your secondary attacks you might already auto-hit, but that statement's not nearly as simple or snazzy.

Anyway based on how good the first 5 are I'd look through them all to pick one. If I had time.

Not sure why an archivist, factotum, or truenamer would be making many attack rolls that need help. Hence why I jumped straight to full BAB with skills => ranger.

[eggynack]

Chaos devotion looks pretty decidedly mediocre. The AC result isn't really that helpful, given the inherently offense biased nature of the game, so when you stop considering those boosts, you're looking at an average boost to attack of +1.5. It doesn't work exactly like that, because AC isn't completely useless, but you're also only doing this in one encounter a day if you're just taking the feat, and you're doing it about twice a day if you're getting it through cleric. It's very, y'know, chaotic. The limited uses per day nature of these abilities is a pretty big downside. I can't really see any of these that I'd take over the feats I listed, or ones like improved trip, or power attack.

In essence, if a feat is high optimization in a low optimization environment, it's kinda balanced. You can't assess things for power level by that kind of metric, because to test for overpoweredness you can't be subjective. Really, outside of knowledge devotion, because it's always on, I can't see any of these that I'd ever take on a melee guy, unless I'm really reaching for feats. If I'm dipping cleric, the math obviously changes in a couple of key ways, but never in a way that makes dipping cleric into the definite choice. It's an option that's pretty balanced with all of the other reasonable melee dips, and the nature of dips means that you're going to take a whole bunch of them.

Finally, the reason I listed archivists, factotums, and truenamers, is because it made some sense to do so. They all tend to have incredibly high knowledge scores, and they all have the capacity to engage in melee. The archivist can engage in melee because of the ability to buff, and the truenamer can engage in melee because his other options aren't all that much better on a consistent basis. Factotums just usually stab stuff, in their base state. These aren't the only three classes that'd want knowledge devotion. They're just classes that both might want the increase to attack and damage, and have the natural resources to push those numbers.

[ericgrau]

It's effectively a penalty to enemy attack rolls, which is what most attacks are. So as a defense it's only a little behind attack bonus. There are miles between "a little less useful" and "almost useless". There are low-mid op DMs complaining about unhittable PCs. Targetting saves doesn't even cross their mind when 90% of monsters don't do much of that, or have a minor ability for it. All the other devotions I saw were really good too.

Looking at a couple more random ones in the middle I saw protection devotion and strength devotion. Protection devotion is +2 sacred AC. Meh. To you and all allies within 30 feet as an immediate action. Wtf. Strength devotion likewise gives an extra attack without penalizing your main attack.

Conceptually a big pile of numbers is harder to notice but then you start translating them into things like "the whole party takes -20% damage" or "you do around 30% more damage". Per feat. It's a bit nutso. And much better than a +1 to hit, or throwing out several class levels to get a little more than that. Vs. shocktrooper, not so much. Vs. Timmy casual player who's trying to do that with all his feats and class features combined, yeah.

[eggynack]

It's effectively a penalty to enemy attack rolls, which is what most attacks are. So as a defense it's only a little behind attack bonus. There are miles between "a little less useful" and "useless". All the other devotions I saw were really good too.
Well, if I'm putting together a dedicated melee build, the goal is to have an enemy with no attack rolls, rather than an enemy with occasionally unsuccessful attack rolls. It's not that bad, but it's certainly not really good. The limited uses per day hurts a lot, even on a cleric, and you're not gaining enough to make it worth it. It's a bit of a moot point, because law devotion is so much better. In fact, by 10th level it basically seems just better, because the gain from law devotion is just higher than the average roll on a d8, and that's ignoring the fact that you allocate your bonus as you choose, instead of how the universe chooses.

In any case, they're certainly pretty good, but they're just nothing special. If the OP weren't specifically looking for a way to get wand use on the cheap, I probably wouldn't have even suggested it. On a melee build, in a choice between a cleric dip and a barbarian dip, I'm choosing the barbarian dip every time. The problem with many of the devotions is that they provide strictly numerical bonuses, and that's just not enough for what you really want to be doing. If I want a numerical bonus, it's basically gotta be on the scale of power attack or shock trooper. If you're taking a cleric dip, it's probably because you want one or more of the unique abilities that you can pull off by taking one. I've mentioned several of them already, like travel devotion, animal devotion, and magic domain. After you take the things you're getting to smooth out your build, things like law devotion, knowledge devotion, or animal devotion (if you're just taking it for the strength bonus), are there to keep your numerical melee abilities on par with what they would have been if you'd gone with a more melee centered dip.

[eggynack]

Vs. shocktrooper, not so much. Vs. Timmy casual player who's trying to do that with all his feats and class features combined, yeah.
That's not really how it works, though. If you're going to call something super optimal, you can't compare it to crap. That's just pointless. It's like, "Oh man, two weapon fighting is crazy overpowered. It's not dealing as much damage as this guy who's only using a two handed weapon, but compared to a guy who's only using a single one handed weapon, it's bananas." That's just not how you evaluate things. If you want to say that a cleric dip is OP somehow, the comparison points are things like barbarian and warblade. Nearly every option is powerful compared to some other option, except for the couple of sad options near the bottom, so you can basically call anything uber powerful by your metric.