A Healer that does more than healing.

[XnOs]

A friend of mine is trying to figure out, what class to roll.

We are atm at the start of the campaign "city of the spiderqueen" in the version d&d 3.5

He would be starting at level 11.

He has no specific requirements, but he would like to have the class include:

- Healing (We have no other healer on the team.)
- Contribute offensively. Through Magic or Physical damage. (Or both)

It's all optional, and all i really want, are some suggestions as to what he could play.

Classes we've suggested as of this moment, and the reasons as to why he would prefer not to play them:

Druid: He would like to avoid transforming, and thereby stay in his humanoid shape.

Paladin: He plays paladin in another campaign.

Favored soul: Not satisfied with the spell-selection.

War priest: Looses too many spell levels.

We've discussed other classes as well, but these are the ones where I remember his argumentation against them.

What could be a nice fit for this picky player? :) He has a lot of experience, and a good understanding of the game.

Kind Regards - X's n O's - XnOs. :)

[sleepyphoenixx]

A druid without wild shape is still more than just viable if transforming is his only objection to the class. UA has an ACF for that.

For a full caster (i assume that's what he wants) it's pretty much that or cleric since Healer can't do anything beside healing.

[pwykersotz]

I suppose it depends on his idea of "contributing" but he could try a Bard. They have enough heals to keep a party on its feet and with Dragonfire Inspiration he could also cause the rest of the party to get a massive boost to damage.

[Saph]

Why not just play a cleric?

"Healer that does more than healing" is pretty much the Cleric class description.

[Krazzman]

Spontaneuous Domain Cleric of Pelor into Radiant Servant of Pelor?

Else show him Eldritch Disciple from Complete Mage (mixes a Cleric and Warlock)

Cleric 4/Warlock 1/Eldritch Disciple 6.
Casting as a level 9 Cleric, Invoking as a 7th level Warlock.

[Adanedhel]

A Vitalist (Soulthief?) seems to be quite right?

Healing, but now Psionically

[Fouredged Sword]

Does he play 40K?

A DMM persist cleric is basically a space marine after level 9. You crush things in melee and buff the crazy out of everything.

[Chronos]

Yeah, the cleric is sort of the default choice for what you're looking for. Is there some reason he's rejected that?

[SciChronic]

Cleric is the best option from what i've read, they're tier 1 for a reason. Clerics are NOT healbots, they have spontaneous casting, so you don't even need to prepare healing spells.

he can always pull some DMM persist shenanigans to make him and his team really strong as well, though a DM may just say no. And even without DMM persist, the massive spell list for clerics has options to do everything.

its most often better to just reduce the damage taken rather than heal the damage that was dealt, so he could just focus on buffing allies so they take minimal amounts of damage. Just have everyone carry one or three healing belts for post-battle recovery. its only 750 gold, and they can heal up to 6d8 damage every day.

If he wants to be interesting he could go psionic. There are powers that shield allies, making them take reduced damage, but he caster takes part of it instead, but psions has a power allowing them to heal themselves using d12s. Elans can even just plain up reduce damage they take, even from their own powers in exchange for power points. There's even a power than shields an ally partially from damage, and the enemy you manifest it upon takes the shielded damage.

[FafnerMorell]

Archivist (from Heros of Horror) - at level 11, the special abilities for boosting the party's AC, damage, and/or to-hit are amazing. And they get a wide selection of cleric spells (and they can take the spontaneous healing feat).

[navar100]

A cleric will do, and he can pick whatever feats he wants. He does not need Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell.

The question is, what does he mean by "contribute"?

If he wants to fight - Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Bull's Strength

If he wants to buff - Bless, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Greater Magic Weapon, Protection From Evil, Shield of Faith, Sanctuary

If he wants to blast, that is, attack with spells - Command, Shatter, Dispel Magic, Blindness, Flame Strike, Hold Person

He can do all three.

Healing is important. Remove Affliction spells (Neutralize Poison, Remove Fear, Lesser Restoration, etc.) are important. However, that is not all that he must do just because he's the cleric. The skill needed to be learned is how to balance all these options. It's possible to balance all of them. It's possible only specializing between two. A common tactic is to relegate Remove Affliction spells to wands, potions, and/or scrolls to use when they are needed but not take up spell slots and be wasted because they aren't needed that often.

[DMVerdandi]

A player that WANTS to be the healbot? Why I never.:smalltongue:
That's actually great. Cleric would be absolutely perfect for the role.

The best thing about the cleric is the totally mutable flavor. It is only one class when it is worshiping a deity, and that is the priestly class. When it comes to being a cleric without a deity, the world opens up. Suddenly you are a superhero with a themed set of powers and domains.

Moreover, your domains don't just reflect the opinion of some other outsider when you pick it, they represent the personal beliefs and aptitudes of the cleric in question.

In my opinion, the best cleric ACF is the Spontaneous Domain Casting acf. With it you trade in spontaneous healing for the ability to spontaneously cast off of one domain. If you are a darkness cleric for example, you can spontaneously convert whatever spell you have prepared for the one you don't want.

While this information is useless for someone who want's to be a healer, it's just one of those cool things.

Definitely would suggest a cleric.

The fact that you can spontaneously convert your spells into healing spells means you don't have to prepare a single one.

It will be the most fun to build. Not to mention, it has the second largest coverage for spells.

[BWR]

A player that WANTS to be the healbot? Why I never.:smalltongue:
I've played with several of those

[lady_arrogance]

I've played with several of those


Same here. And I too, say: play cleric. Navar100 has the point of it: cleric is quite versatile in battle - melee, blasting or buffs, cleric does them all in addition to healing.

[XnOs]

Thanks for the quick answers! God i love this community! :-)

I should have mentioned that Cleric was off the table, as it is a obvious candidate for the position. ^^

@sleepyphoenixx - He is declining the Druid. I think he is afraid of becoming a Healbot per say.

@pwykersotz - Bard has a reputation of being crap, in the group i am playing. Not entirely sure why. Maybe people like to do direct damage where buffing the team is less desirable.

@Saph - Cleric is off the table, since he has played it before. A lot. =)

@Krazzman - Thanks mate! I'll look into that. I am showing him Eldritch Disciple as we speak! ^^

@Adanedhel - Sounds interesting! We will look into that after the Eldritch Deciple. Thanks ! :) Also, in what book do i find it?

@Fouredged Sword - This is d&d 3.5 :)

@Chronos - Yeah, Cleric is off the table, since he has played it before. ^^ But yeah, i do see your point. I should have mentioned that in the original post.

@SciChronic - What are DMM priest?

@FafnerMorell - Thanks mate! I'll definitely look in to that. ^^

@navar100 Again, i should have mentioned this in the original post. He has worn out clerics. :) But you are ever so right. Strong class indeed.

@BWR - Actually, his fear is to turn into a healbot ^.^

@DMVerdandi - He has worn out clerics sadly. But thanks for the post! Definitely some interesting thoughts! ^^

[JusticeZero]

Seconding the Vitalist. A Sadist Soulthief can be a terrifying broker of HP - ripping HP away from their enemies and distributing them among their allies as needed, among other things. Other versions that work with status effects are available. That's the only healer type class available in the campaign i'm running right now, and they seem up to the task so far.
IIRC, there is also an archetype of the Tactician that does a fair bit of healing, but I have no idea how effective it is at it.

[XnOs]

@JusticeZero That sounds interesting as well! Where do i find these Vitalists?

Also, am i understanding it correct, that the Eldritch Disciple class requires multiclassing?

[JusticeZero]

It's out of the Pathfinder psionics stuff from Mindscarred, the class material for which isn't different from 3.5 enough to require any significant alteration. (The rest of the rules work better than 3.5 in pretty much everyones opinion that i've seen, since apparently some notorious bits of wacky cracked stuff from 3.x was repaired.) The open web stuff on it is here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist).

[Fouredged Sword]

A vitalist is a pathfinder psionic class, and can be ported over without much fuss.

An Eldritch Disciple requires multiclassing between a warlock and a divine caster of some kind. It makes for a very different cleric or favored soul.

[turbo164]

@SciChronic - What are DMM priest?


Persist, not priest.

Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell is a feat that requires Extend Spell and Persist Spell. It lets you spend 7 Turn Undead attempts (from charisma, Extra Turning, or more commonly Nightstick items) to make some buff spells last 24 hours; common options include Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Might to make you an awesome fighter; and Mass Lesser Vigor/Vigorous Circle to give everyone Fast Healing for the whole day (so you don't need to Cure or Healing Belt between fights).

But, that's Cleric stuff.

[Urpriest]

@JusticeZero That sounds interesting as well! Where do i find these Vitalists?

Also, am i understanding it correct, that the Eldritch Disciple class requires multiclassing?

Eldritch Disciple mixes Cleric and Warlock, like a Mystic Theurge mixes Cleric and Wizard.

If the guy doesn't want to play a Cleric or a Druid, any other divine caster besides Healer should be fine, plus Bard or some psionic options. Archivist has already been mentioned, Shugenja can work too if you're smart with it, as can Spirit Shaman. You could also go for a Crusader, a class from Tome of Battle that can pick up lots of abilities that let it heal its allies when dealing damage in melee, but that may be too similar to a Paladin for this guy.

In general, the question becomes what you want healing for. If you feel like you need the Heal spell to be plopped down mid-combat then there aren't a huge number of options, but the divine casters at least will all work. If you just want someone to heal the party up between combats, that's what anyone with any divine spellcasting at all (including rangers etc.) or anyone with Use Magic Device is for, since it's pretty cheap to keep the party at full hp with wands of Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium), or Cure Light Wounds.

[XnOs]

Persist, not priest.

Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell is a feat that requires Extend Spell and Persist Spell. It lets you spend 7 Turn Undead attempts (from charisma, Extra Turning, or more commonly Nightstick items) to make some buff spells last 24 hours; common options include Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Might to make you an awesome fighter; and Mass Lesser Vigor/Vigorous Circle to give everyone Fast Healing for the whole day (so you don't need to Cure or Healing Belt between fights).

But, that's Cleric stuff.


Okay, i see! :) I misread that bad. Thanks for clarifying, i'll definitely look into that.

@Fouredged Sword - Okay, I'm not sure if we will be allowed that, but it is worth a try. :)

[XnOs]

Eldritch Disciple mixes Cleric and Warlock, like a Mystic Theurge mixes Cleric and Wizard.

If the guy doesn't want to play a Cleric or a Druid, any other divine caster besides Healer should be fine, plus Bard or some psionic options. Archivist has already been mentioned, Shugenja can work too if you're smart with it, as can Spirit Shaman. You could also go for a Crusader, a class from Tome of Battle that can pick up lots of abilities that let it heal its allies when dealing damage in melee, but that may be too similar to a Paladin for this guy.

In general, the question becomes what you want healing for. If you feel like you need the Heal spell to be plopped down mid-combat then there aren't a huge number of options, but the divine casters at least will all work. If you just want someone to heal the party up between combats, that's what anyone with any divine spellcasting at all (including rangers etc.) or anyone with Use Magic Device is for, since it's pretty cheap to keep the party at full hp with wands of Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium), or Cure Light Wounds.

Honestly, I am not even sure if he knows what he wants with this character. :)

I assume he wants mid-battle healing, as the healing between battles already is taken care of through healing belts. Thanks for the suggestions, i'll be sure to pass it on! :)

[hydraa]

I had a player in my game that was using the healer class and wanted to be more effective in contribute. We came up with the other side of her character by applying a gestalt sorcerer on to the character.

[SciChronic]

Honestly, I am not even sure if he knows what he wants with this character. :)

I assume he wants mid-battle healing, as the healing between battles already is taken care of through healing belts. Thanks for the suggestions, i'll be sure to pass it on! :)

the problem there is that it's generally better to just buff and prevent damage via controlling the battlefield during battle rather than heal. Not to say mid-battle healing completely useless, as there would be times when you need to heal, it really shouldn't be something you focus on. Why spend 3 healing spells during a fight when you could have cast 1 spell to prevent it in the first place?

[Metahuman1]

inb4 Binder.

You've got vestiges to restore ability score damage and drain, cure or grant immunity against disease and poisons, and drop unlimited out of combat healing. You've got UMD for a couple of wands if you've gotta have some heal now.

And you've got an awesome list of vestiges that allow you to fill what ever other role you fancy in the party, and you can change them on a regular basis if the needs of the party change or if you just get board with one job.

"Ok, I'm sick of being a tricked out beat stick. I'm gonna fling supernatural powers at them for awhile, warblade, take over smacking them in the face."

"Ok, I'm sick of slinging supernatural powers at them. Sorcerer, take over spell casting, I'm gonna be sneaky."

"Ok, board of sneaking. Factotum, take over, I'm gonna be a party face."

[Waker]

He wants to heal, but doesn't want to play a Druid, Cleric or Bard? Then how about he plays a Genie?
Sha'ir 3/Favored Soul 1/Mystic Theurge 7. Sha'ir has access to arcane and divine spells, allowing him to meet the casting requirements of MT by himself. By level 11 he casts as a lvl 10 Sha'ir (which has access to the Sorc/Wiz list as well as several domains) and as a lvl 8 Favored Soul. Use nothing but healing and buffing on the FS side to allow you to ignore Wis, use Sha'ir casting to prepare combat and utility spells. Also because of his Charisma focus and points spent in Diplomacy, he can also serve as a party face if he wants.

[Gavinfoxx]

Druids and Clerics aren't healbots... they really really aren't healbots at all. They are some of the most powerful classes in the game at doing ANYTHING, and healing is the job of wands, in between combats.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1520

You should look at those...

[navar100]

Not being a cleric puts a little damper on being a healbot, but there are other classes that can heal.

A bard could do it, but it's best to invest in wands.

A dragon shaman could do it, but only until half-max hit points.

If everything is on the table, a crusader can offer some amount of healing while hulk smashing at the same time.

A druid can, but it's also better for him to invest in wands.

A ranger technically can but would be ill-suited as a focus.

[Gavinfoxx]

Base Classes that have Cure Light Wounds on their class list, and thus are great healers with a few 750 gp Wands of Cure Light Wounds:

Adept
Archivist
Blackguard
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Healer
Paladin
Ranger
Shugenja

Classes that have Lesser Vigor on their class list, and thus are even better healers with a few 750 gp wands of Lesser Vigor:

Cleric
Druid


And remember... a healing wand should perhaps be the first magic item the group obtains. At level 2, as soon as the group can get 750 gp amongst them, it is a good idea to make this their purchase! And bam, healing is taken care of! Just make sure they always have a wand with charges on the party at all times.

[Fouredged Sword]

Status healing is also important, but that can be done through scrolls. Just keep track of all potential status effects and keep a few scrolls around. One set of scrolls per party member should be fine. Just cover all the bases like ability damage, negative levels, disease, ect.

As you get higher in level, a staff with heal on it becomes possible as the solution to most your status condition problems.

[Raendyn]

everyone in the party takes healing belts for 750g each, then he makes a uber druid that will either focus on melee , or on spellcasting(and summoning).

As for the healing part he just picks up some wand of lesser vigor and a couple opf scrolls of cure serious/critical wounds. We all know that in combat healing is sub par in dnd 3.5. so in those rare occasions he will have to use the scrolls and on normal rutine he will just use the wants out of combat. He can also argue that those resources should be paid from the whole party and not his own pocket only.

as for what a druid can do? check a druid hadbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0) or or two. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868802/Druid_Handbook_revived)

Explain to him, after u also understand it. Being able to use healing items/heal does equal being healbot. In thruth he can end up being the best melee out there. He has something better than the party fighter as a companion and can summon an other one every round, and he can turn into one too.

[XnOs]

Druids and Clerics aren't healbots... they really really aren't healbots at all. They are some of the most powerful classes in the game at doing ANYTHING, and healing is the job of wands, in between combats.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1520

You should look at those...

I agree with you, and it is not my arguments. My friends logic is deniable. :P

Same answer works for your post Raendyn. :) I am fully aware of the power of druids. :)

[Twilightwyrm]

Well, your buddy could try the Shaman class from the Oriental Adventures book. It's spell list is somewhat more limited that that of a cleric or druid, but you get several bonus feats (Including Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st level :smallconfused:), the ability to turn/rebuke undead (so Divine Metamagic is open), three domains overall (shamans have their own domain list, which actually isn't that bad), and a full caster level Animal Companion. They are, as printed, technically 3.0, but I don't recall them being notably revised in the Dragon Magazine 3.5 Update, so you can pretty much just play one as is with a few tweeks to the skill list (removing no longer existing skills, and adding their logical equivalents).

If this does not sound like the right option, I would second Archivist. It is basically a divine casting wizard with actual class features.

[Reddish Mage]

D&D is definitely built on the premise that healing is job no one wants and so it needs to make classes that do it enticing by allowing them to do a whole lot more, even to the point that Druids are better fighters then Fighters and giving Clerics spontaneous casting so they don't have to actually fill up a spell slot with healing.

If your friend wants nothing to do with Core-Healing classes (including Paladin) or anything that looks like one of them, I'd probably throw up my hands by this point rather than go to the boards. Otherwise, you can try asking your friend what he does want (a monster that heals, a healer with Arcane-like spells, a Rogue-type that heals, an exotic etc, ).

You got a whole list of healers here there's probably more that can be built out of class combos, PrC's, etc. I have a feeling though that your friend may simply not want to play a primary healer, or for that matter much of a secondary healer, unless he can also be the Wizard (make the rest of the party Warforged?).

[Ruethgar]

I have a character that pretty much only has Shield Other and a Reached Manifest Life (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forge-war--105/manifest-life--3553/). It could be pretty fun, but relies heavily on shuffling, 3rd party and of course has the issue of being near useless against undead. The basic idea is for him to move health around rather than truly heal it. Eventually chain zap your enemies and then chain heal yourself and friends. It is a fighter base, so you can somewhat afford the shield other.

If you want something a little more official, I like the idea of a chaotic good/neutral cleric 3(I would prefer AEG's priest but cleric is fine), warlock 3, eldritch disciple 5. That allows you to heal for a swift and standard action with a turn and a eldritch blast. Take undeath twice for Extra Turning or Planning for the typical DMM persist. You could also qualify as a sorcerer 5(domain ACF with undeath), warlock 3, eldritch disciple 3 if you wanted a bit more arcane power.

Edit: Ok, better version. Have to be a red haired human with a flaw. Take Redhead, a Metamagic feat, Sanctum Spell. Sorcerer 1/Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 1(healing blast), Eldritch Thurge 6. You can heal ok, and it is different from the regular classes. You also get some ok sorcerer spell casting. Blast it, forgot I'm so used to the Quintessential Sorcerer I just auto add Divine Receptacle. >.<

[JusticeZero]

If your friend wants nothing to do with Core-Healing classes (including Paladin) or anything that looks like one of them, I'd probably throw up my hands by this point rather than go to the boards.
Honestly, i'd assume it's because he 1: likes to heal people and feels fulfilled by keeping people healthy and 2: has played a cleric many, many, many, many, many times and 3: is going to have blood start coming out his eyes if he has to choose a god and wave a holy symbol and turn the skeletons again like he does every. freaking. game.
If he was in my game, which is PF, i'd hand him a Vitalist, or maybe a Tactician(Battle Medic). That's the only people who throw around healing effects in any great quantity in my campaign anyways. And that's because I as a GM was getting to the point of points 2: and 3:.

[Donox]

Idea: You could play an actual healer.

Now, you may think that healers can't do much more than healing...you would ordinarily be right. However, if you say take the Ordained Champion PRC (from Complete Champion, using extra spell from Complete Arcane to be able to cast the spell Magic Weapon needed to qualify) in order to gain the war domain, and then PRC paladin for (qualifying with the turn undead granted by ordained champion) access to all paladin spells your options become vastly more than

You can then take battle blessing in order to use your paladin spells spontaneously.

Essentially you are able to cast all paladin spell as swift actions, and all war domain spells spontaneously as swift actions (not that you'll need DM approval to cast war domain spells spontaneously, as healer and ordained champion don't totally mesh) . You also have all the ordained champions abilities (which are phenomenal) and all of the paladin abilities.

I'd suggest the feats power attack, practiced spell caster, battle blessing, and maybe divine metamagic if your DM will allow it.

EDIT: Also serenity to reduce MAD

[Gavinfoxx]

So... play a Cleric who doesn't have Cure X as his 'remove existing spell to get this', who uses ALL of his turn undeads for divine metamagic...

for when the party says, "lose a spell to cure me!" he says, "nope, can't do that", or when they say "turn the undead!" he says, "nope, can't do that"

Instead, what he actually does, is kick ass in melee, in the front lines, with huge amounts of always on buffs and and great spells. And if the party wants him to heal, he tells them, "Spend your own money to buy me a wand of lesser vigor, and I will heal you outside of combat. Otherwise, buzz off."

Also, he doesn't choose a god, instead, choosing to follow a philosophy.

Essentially, the Cleric for people who think there is only one way to play cleric...

[Devils_Advocate]

A dragon shaman could do it, but only until half-max hit points.

If everything is on the table, a crusader can offer some amount of healing while hulk smashing at the same time.
These are probably the best options for in-combat healing, which, as has been noted, isn't generally worth wasting actions on.

[gorfnab]

Crusader 7/ Divine Crusader 3/ Sovereign Speaker 9/ Crusader 1

[Malroth]

Wizard with the feat Arcane Disciple:(healing domain). Now you've got all the wizard tricks and better healing than a druid.