Pathfinder SoulKnife Help

[JohnStone]

I am thinking of building a Soulknife for a pathfinder campaign.

I was thinking of going the Cutthroat Archtype high dex TWF route.

basically i just want to know:
1:is this class still underpowered
2:is cutthroat a viable option
3:advice for feats bladeskills or possibly multiclassing

[ArcanistSupreme]

Just by glancing at it, they seem to have fixed a few of the core issues; it now has full BAB, can throw it's mind blade right from the get-go, and is much more customizable with the addition of blade skills. I haven't read through all of the blade skills, but it looks like it's been bumped up to at least Tier 4 territory in power level.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Yes, Pathfinder's soulknife is on par with a fighter (slightly less powerful, but a lot more versatile). The primary benefit is that you don't have to spend any money on your weapon (which is normally a fighter's most important piece of gear) and you can spend it on armor, ability score enhancers, and other useful things instead. You also get some neat tricks that feats can't duplicate. You should pick some high-level feat set to build towards, such as the Critical feats that add debuffs to your criticals.

Cutthroat is overall a damage improvement, provided you can qualify for sneak attacks (through flanking, invisibility, etc.) Whenever possible you want to make full attacks while sneak attacking, even if this temporarily put you in harm's way (so get good armor, boost your Dexterity, and keep your Constitution reasonably high). The obvious downside is that you won't be able to get any bonus damage if you're fighting an opponent without any of the sneak attack conditions.

[Psyren]

It's a bit stronger than Fighter I'd say, due to the ease with which it can switch between melee and ranged combat and the lower reliance on WBL for baseline effectiveness. I'd put it more on par with Barbarian.

Whether its "underpowered" depends mostly on what you're comparing it to, but as far as CR-appropriate threats it can hold its own, like any T4.

[Katana1515]

I really like the new Soulknife, its comfortably high Tier 4 IMHO and provides a lot of interesting customisability. I reckon its probably the best available base class for a TWF build since it allows you to deal with some of the major issues facing that particular fighting style. In particular your MindBlades allow you to have a solid magic weapon in each hand without blowing all your WBL and the various ice/fire/lightning blade turns your damage into energy damage bypassing DR (a common bane of TWF Builds). Cutthroat seems an Ok Archetype but have you considered Nimble blade? it gives serious boosts to your damage output if your maxing out dex

[JohnStone]

yeah im bouncing around the archtypes now. i just got accepted to the pbp game congrats me :)

the cutthroat fits my concept great and i wouldnt have to charge my psychic strikes.

also we dont have a rogue and i could grab the trapfinding bladeskill if im a cutthroat. as well as evasion.

how can i use my new bluff skill to help feint seems like a waste of action economy.

i am also considering Nimble though as well as vanilla.

[JohnStone]

Okay so my Campaign has begun and my character sheet is done so i can give you some details.

im a goblin (everyone is small, goblins are not evil)

i went with nimble blade
str 14 (early levels and carrying capacity, im small)
dex 20
con 16
int 10
wis 13
cha 9

(weapon finesse, mindblade finesse), and i chose power attack

the plan is 2 handed mindblade with power attack, psychic strikes and enhancements i should only need standard attacks.
meaning i can use my speed (goblins are fast) in the first round
and charge my psy strikes in subsequent rounds.

feats: psychic weapon, psycic body, speed of thought, mental leap?

bladeskills: extra enhancement, powerful strikes, mind daggers, furious charge

concerns:
1. i have no good range options
a. buy a bunch of javelins?
b. mind daggers?
c. stack the hell out of acrobatics skill, mental leap, you get the idea

2. im T4 eventually ill get bored
a. multiclass
b. prestige class
c. live with it


like i said my sheet is done, my stats are fixed, my feats are picked.
my DM like roleplay not so much min/max so i can maybe grab one multiclass maybe a Prc. but he will work with me for thematic reasons, hmm want a theme? im kind of rogueish, raised in a crime family.

[JusticeZero]

Cutthroat also is compatible with Armored ;that means that you can run around using Armor that you don't have to pay for that is similar to a chain shirt with the same penalties as nudity. That is helpful for a stealth. One issue is that your balance will be dependent on you getting your WBL in rings, wondrous items, etc. - instead of buying weapons and armor, your budget goes toward making you Batman crazy prepared. However, you may have to argue about item distribution if your party doesn't do item distribution well.

[Psyren]

concerns:
1. i have no good range options
a. buy a bunch of javelins?
b. mind daggers?
c. stack the hell out of acrobatics skill, mental leap, you get the idea

2. im T4 eventually ill get bored
a. multiclass
b. prestige class
c. live with it


1) Mind Daggers are your first recourse for ranged - you can full attack with them pretty early and you get a much larger range increment than with the standard blade. If you want to dedicate yourself to range a bit more, the Soul Archer PrC and/or Soulbolt archetype give you more ranged punch.

2) A PrC may help if you think you'll get bored - find out if your DM allows the "High Psionics rule" (PsU pg. 155) whereby a PrC with "+1 level of existing manifesting class" will advance both your manifesting and your mind blade. If so, feel free to multiclass Psywar and pick up War Mind for some lethal tricks, or multiclass Marksman or a similarly martial class. If your DM doesn't use this rule, however, you can still enter a PrC like Adaptive Warrior and just advance your mind blade while getting neat abilities. Finally, if all else fails, show your DM the archetype retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign, and switch to an archetype like Gifted Blade to get some manifesting.

[JohnStone]

i went with nimble blade
str 14 (early levels and carrying capacity, im small)
dex 20
con 16
int 10
wis 13
cha 9

(weapon finesse, mindblade finesse), and i chose power attack
I like 2handers


im T4 eventually ill get bored


switch to an archetype like Gifted Blade to get some manifesting.

i asked my DM if i could re-roll a gifted blade and shoot for full wis (he said NO, cause we already started.) but i did not know you could combine archetypes, so he said yes to that. so what do you think of nimble/gifted blade. unfortunately i cant reroll stats so will 13 wis be enough?

since im on the subject what about armored/nimble/gifted blade. yeah dumb, probably not bad with something else but not with nimble.

also since i already have power attack what do you think the odds are of getting a DM to let me get a bladeskill for piranha strike?

[JusticeZero]

Looks fine to me. Had to make sure that was a valid combo ;it looks to be. Armored light armor improves nicely to be a chain shirt equivalent with no armor penalty which is yummy for a dex fighter. Gifted gives you flexibility, eventually even getting you Psychic Reformation which kicks your ability to change up your abilities to fit the problems at hand up more. Armored does slow down the mind blade progression, so your budget will replace your armor budget with a top notch set of crystal focus items. You will be making up for the minor hit to blade power with flexibility and ability to customize on the fly anyhow, arguably the core strength of the class.

[JusticeZero]

. You need to be TWF to use your finesse bonus anyways, as only the light blade is finesse able. PA would only help if you are swinging one of the light blades. So I don't know that it is all that useful compared to Piranha Strike.

[JohnStone]

my main concern was the wis 13. i suppose if its just for PP and possibly DCs its not that big of a thing. i know most gifted blades pump it up and take focused offense, i wont need that. (and of course giving up psychic strikes)

You need to be TWF to use your finesse bonus anyways, as only the light blade is finesse able. PA would only help if you are swinging one of the light blades
i have mindblade finesse (works on 2hander) and eventually Agile Weapon.

the problem i saw with going armored was the "chain shirt" max dex +4 well at lvl 1 i already have +5 :)

[Psyren]

i asked my DM if i could re-roll a gifted blade and shoot for full wis (he said NO, cause we already started.) but i did not know you could combine archetypes, so he said yes to that. so what do you think of nimble/gifted blade. unfortunately i cant reroll stats so will 13 wis be enough?

13 is fine - most Psywars start with 14 Wis and they need Wis a lot more than you will. 14 is all you need to manifest every power on the Gifted Blade list, so by the time you get that high you should be able to afford a Headband of Wisdom or similar.



since im on the subject what about armored/nimble/gifted blade. yeah dumb, probably not bad with something else but not with nimble.

Armored is not a great idea unless you're in a low-magic or low-wealth game and magic armor is hard to come by. You'll generally be better off just buying WBL-appropriate armor and enjoying full blade progression. A Nimble Blade can also be a passable sneak or scout, but not if he's tromping around in splint mail.

Another option if you really want "mind armor" is to multiclass Aegis and PrC into Metaforge.



also since i already have power attack what do you think the odds are of getting a DM to let me get a bladeskill for piranha strike?

I'm not sure I understand? Nimble Blades get Piranha Strike for free.

[JusticeZero]

He wants to be A nimble who swings a huge two hand mind blade.

[Psyren]

He wants to be A nimble who swings a huge two hand mind blade.

I see - well, he has a problem then, because I don't know of any 2-handed light weapons. The Elven Curve Blade is a finessable 2-hander, but it's explicitly not a light weapon, so Piranha Strike won't work with it.

If he does find a weapon that can do this, the "Emulate Melee Weapon" bladeskill will allow him to shape his mind blade into a copy of one with all of its properties. For instance, you could emulate an Elven Curve Blade and be able to finesse with it.

[JohnStone]

this is from the dreamscarred press site:


A 1st level nimble blade gains the Mind Blade Finesse blade skill. This replaces proficiency with shields and medium armor.


Mind Blade Finesse: The benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat apply to the mind blade even when it is in forms that cannot normally be the subject of Weapon Finesse (including two-handed forms).


A nimble blade of 7th level treats her mind blade as if it had the agile weapon special ability. This does not count toward the nimble blade's mind blade's enhancement bonus.

This replaces the mind blade enhancement increase gained at 7th level.

so that takes care of that...

as far as the armored blade goes it was just a thought i plan on stacking dex so i really dont think its worth it.

as for piranha strike i was asking if you think a DM would allow me to get my blade skill back for it since i already got power attack (dont worry about it)

Now i could grab Gifted Blade for some fun stuff, or keep my strikes thats basically what it boils down to.

if i kept strikes i figured power attack/psycic strikes/vitalstrikes/+enhancements. one shot. use move action to re-charge psycic strikes repeat (boring but effective)

(if you guys think im wrong about the 2hander let me know ill talk to my DM right away)
(p.s. my mindblade is a bladed staff so the dexterity thing fits fluff)

[Psyren]

this is from the dreamscarred press site:


so that takes care of that...

Finessing with your MB was never the problem, the problem was getting Piranha Strike to work with a non-light MB, and there's still no way to do that.

Anyway, as you said, Vital Strike + Power Attack + Psychic Strike will largely make Piranha Strike unnecessary.



as for piranha strike i was asking if you think a DM would allow me to get my blade skill back for it since i already got power attack (dont worry about it)

If your DM allows this, great! If not... well, you've basically wasted a bladeskill but it's not the end of the world. (And you could always combine it with mind daggers or something as a backup to get some use out of it.)



Now i could grab Gifted Blade for some fun stuff, or keep my strikes thats basically what it boils down to.

I would always go with the powers but that's just me. Psychic Strike isn't bad though - certainly its better in PF than it was in 3.5. This build involves a lot of dicerolling which can be fun.

[JohnStone]

thankyou psyren thats what i wanted to hear (i just looked at agile does nimble supercede the must be a light weapon? the raw doesnt say as long as the mindblade meats requirements)

im probably gonna go gifted blade to get the powers especially since i have a tactician in the group.

so now im a super dex guy with a mighty powerful weapon. and some fun psionic toys.

now what.

a feat for dex to cmb?
any other cool tricks to amaze the team?

[JusticeZero]

Anyway, as you said, Vital Strike + Power Attack + Psychic Strike will largely make Piranha Strike unnecessary.A Gifted Blade doesn't get Psychic Strike. And.. Vital Strike? Really? :p

[Axinian]

A Gifted Blade doesn't get Psychic Strike. And.. Vital Strike? Really? :p

Vital Strike isn't as bad as it first appears. It's not great, definitely not mandatory for melee like Power Attack, but everyone encounters lots of situations where a full attack isn't feasible and it's a nice little damage boost for your single attacks.

[JusticeZero]

It's good in E/P6, but most standard builds have a shortage of feats. Soulknives don't have the extra feats to burn.

[Psyren]

A Gifted Blade doesn't get Psychic Strike.

I know that. If you read the discussion above, he is debating between keeping psychic strike or dropping it for GB.


And.. Vital Strike? Really? :p

On most melee classes it sucks, because full-attacking is better. On a melee class that needs its move actions to recharge its bonus damage mechanic, VS is useful to squeeze as much damage as possible out of standard action strikes.