Cha Hellbred Gish Help

[hrak]

Hello,

I am starting as a PC in a campaign this summer in a few days and I have been trying to flesh out a character. I want to play a Hellbred (Fiendish Codex II) Charisma based Gish type.

My character has a lot of fluff behind him because I do enjoy the role pay as much as the high powered combat (which my DM has promised their will be so I best be prepared) But basically my character is kind of like the Punisher, if the Punisher duel wielded Keen Edge Kukri.

My goal is to be a high speed elite slicer and dicer who uses charisma on basically everything. Using Two Weapon Fighting, Divine Might, Divine Shield on my feycrafted Buckler, Battle Dancer's Slippers, Belt of Battle, and Possibly Divine Grace and the Swift Blade PrC With haste, Plus Disguise Self and high Bluff, diplomacy and intimidate checks to make my way around the "underscity".

All together I'll have charisma added to all my saves(if I get divine grace from paladin or Solider of Light), my attack (twice if I smite evil), my damage (twice when I use divine might), my AC (divine Shield), My initiative (4th level swift blade).

Now the question is how to do this? I have been fiddling around with alot of different options, trying to enter early to Swift blade, seeing what I can do to get all the features I want.

Core Features I need for this build to work:
Turn undead (for divine feats)
Two Weapon Fighting/ Improved two weapon fighting
Ability to Cast Haste and other self buffing spells
Caste Disguise Self some way

Stuff I want but can be dropped (i guess):
Divine Grace
Smite Evil

Base Starting classes I have been messing with:
Paladin
Fighter
Sorcerer/ Battle Sorcerer
Cleric
WarMage
DreadNecro (non goods a problem for my characters fluff)

PrC I have been messing with:
Swiftblade
Sacred Exorcist (give turn undead to arcane casters, but need dismissel)
Solider of Light
Abjurant Champion
Spell Blade

We are starting at level 9 and I want to be able to do my core mechanics by then. I wont be heart broken if I cant go into SwiftBlade until later on, though I wish I could just take it at level 5 but their seems to be know way to pull this off. I have tried lots of builds but nothing gives me all of it. Only thing that lets me Kinda do what I want is:
Fight1/Battle Sorcerer5/Abjurantchampion or Spell Blade 1/shoulder of light2

This gives me 8 BAB, turn undead, divine grace, smite evil and 6CL and a nice fighter bonus feat. Next level I can go for Swift blade and finish the progression with ten levels of that probably.

Is there a better way? I would really like to be able to have some swift blade in their. My DM doesnt mind cheese as long as we role play well. She throws very hard things at us, and if we die, we die... So dont worry about something too far-fetched. I dont want to be a kobald though..

Thanks in Advance! and for reading my ridiculously long post...

[A_S]

Charisma focus, combat focused on dancing (i.e., a Perform skill), and gishiness? That's got Sublime Chord written all over it, to me. There's a number of different ways you could build it, but I think I'd go with:

Bard 7/Paladin of Freedom 2/(Cloistered) Cleric 1/Sublime Chord 1/Swiftblade 9

That gets you:

16 BAB
8th level spells
Turn Undead for divine feats
Cha to everything but the kitchen sink
Some Bardic Music so you can use Snowflake Wardance (stacks with the slippers)
Full Swiftblade class features, including the extra action per turn, which makes the 10' movement requirement way easier to combine with full attacks


If you have enough feats to squeeze in Dragontouched and Dragonfire Inspiration, you'll also be able to juice up the party with some extra damage dice (synergizes well with TWF).

*edit* Starting at level 9 means you can be Bard 6/Paladin of Freedom 2/Cleric 1, which means you'd start with:

2nd level spells (this is the weak point)
Cha to attack and damage twice (slippers + snowflake wardance)
Cha to saves
Turn Undead for starting to get divine feats (probably just Divine Might this early)


Two levels later at 11, though, you'd catch up with 5th level spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The standard Sorcerer Gish build goes Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8.
Feats should include Practiced Spellcaster, Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Minor Shapeshift, and Ancestral Relic for this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4). Highly recommended feats are Extend/Persistent Spell, Practical Metamagic: Persistent Spell, Divine Might, Combat Reflexes, etc. Also Arcane Preparation may be necessary to cast (Greater) Luminous Armor if you're unable to put it on your Runestaff.

Note that you only need Dismissal until you hit Sacred Exorcist 4, after which its own Dispel Evil spell-like ability will meet its own prerequisite. You can put Dismissal 1/day on your Runestaff and easily fulfill that without wasting a spell known.

I'll strongly recommend going Illumian for your race, with the Naenhoon runeword so you can spend turn uses to Persist two of your highest level buffs each day.

[Piggy Knowles]

It goes a little against the flavor you were working on, but have you seen this build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286800)? It's a duskblade/nar demonbinder build I've been working on. That build stub uses illumian, but a Cha-based hellbred would actually be a perfect fit for a PC version, since it can cast the [Evil] spells the build picks up without risking an alignment shift.

[gorfnab]

You could go with Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3

[hrak]

Thanks so much for you advice, I never thought of being a bard, but now it seems like an obvious option. I think solider of light is better then paladin of freedom + cleric because it gives both turn undead and divine grace in only two levels with full BAB.

So I'd probably go Bard 7/SoL2 for now 10th level grab Sublime cord and finish the build out with Swift blade.

I'd only have 4 feats So I'd get Dodge and Mobility for Swift blade, and Snowflake war dance and Divine might. Is Swift blade worth those two feats? I think so.. I'd have to get gloves of the balanced hand for two weapon fighting but thats not to big of an issue. Can I use snowflake war dance once on each weapon or does it only apply to one weapon in my hands?

So now I gotta choose between

Fighter 1/Battle Sorcerer 5/Abjuratant Champion 1/Solider of Light 2

VS

Bard 7/ Solider of Light 2

Which is better? I can go straight into swiftblade with the first build next level, But are bard spells/sublime cord spells better then limited Battle Sorcerer Spells?

Also I really liked the Ancestral Relic feat suggestion. I dont know if I'll use it here, but I will certainly use it at some point.

[Talya]

after you choose your path, don't forget to add the Spark- Magic Blooded LA +0 template.

[A_S]

Stuff to note:

1. Due to the skill prerequisites, you can't take your first level of SC until 11, even if you otherwise qualify. So, think about what to do with your extra level.

2. I think bard+SC is a better casting path than battle sorc, since it requires less caster levels to get high spell levels. A SC can use 3 levels before 11 for non-casting stuff (like soldier of light), then lose 3 levels to swiftblade, and still hit 8th level spells. Can't do that on a sorcerer chassis. Plus, bard spells are good, and snowflake wardance is right up your alley.

3. Snowflake wardance applies to both weapons.

4. The ancestral relic trick works for SC casting.

[Shaynythyryas]

If you're focused on dancing, try dipping one level into Battle Dancer (dragon magazine) : base class, the first level gives you (unnamed) CHA to AC as long as you don't wear any armor.