What is an appropriate class choice for this character?

[Govinator]

Hello Playground!
In my pathfinder campaign, there is a faction inspired by Republican Era Rome, that has a Senator gearing up to begin a "Romanization" of the the continent. (Rome with magic, imagine that!)

He intends to take a different approach to things than the standard Roman of that period would though, namely in that he is really anti-slavery. Thinks that things can be done better without the use of slaves, and attributes the excessive slavery to the current decline of the empire. He is doing what he believes to be right, but is not beyond using "dirty tactics" to complete his goals.

If anyone has seen the most recent season of Spartacus, he is very much based on their take of Crassus. Out for glory, the betterment of the empire, but differs from that character in that he wants to make the world a "better" place.

However, I have no idea what class to give him!

Can anyone offer some thoughts to a class that would fit this idea? I don't like the idea of him being a full caster, as he leads battles from the front. Other than that though, anything else is open game.

Edit: Full caster could well be appropriate, given how he is a senator. It could reflect his schooling and learning before joining the aristocracy. So I retract my statement, any class is open. Thoughts, thoughts, a penny for your thoughts!

[Flickerdart]

Casters can lead from the front just fine. As an anti-slaver he could make good use of summoned creatures, undead, or constructs.

[Govinator]

Oh, I certainly understand that they can lead from the front, I just simply didn't think it fit how I viewed him. As for the constructs, that's a legitimate view but I don't know about undead (his character would simply see it as another type of slavery).

Would you have any specifics as to a class that he could find appropriate, though? I had thought a bit about Paladin, but I dont feel like I could justify that, especially if he is leading a series of invasions. Seeing as he a senator though, a full caster could well be appropriate given the access to study material and wealth he'd have resulting from his position.

Any thoughts? Any at all?

[buttcyst]

warmage is a full battle caster prof in armor, good for a pseudo military politician who has magic ability and wants to lead from the front

[navar100]

Inquisitor

Decent enough warrior with magic back-up. Known for zealotry. When an obstacle is in his path, he tells the obstacle to move.

[Waker]

Well, any character could technically fill this role since all you seem to focus on is the roleplaying.
I will suggest Bard though. You've got access to plenty of delicious Knowledge skills, can use your Bardic Music by putting ranks into Peform (Oratory), a handy list of magic keyed off of your Charisma, you can be a decent melee combatant as well.

[JusticeZero]

If it was my game, the guy would probably be a Tactician, but my game is on the atypical side. You might consider Magus too. Inquisitor was also a good suggestion

[Govinator]

Well, any character could technically fill this role since all you seem to focus on is the roleplaying.
.

Not quite! I just want the class to fit him kinda thematically. He's going to be one of the central figures in my PC's campaign, and taking part in the battles that they themselves will be joining. Its going to get to a point where he is going to be fighting powerful warriors and leaders of other nations, and depending on how my PC's treat the initial plot hook, he will either be a BBEG for them to try and oppose, or a benefactor that they'll be supporting.

I think inquisitor might not be a bad idea, just homebrew some of the fluff so that he is "inquisiting" in the name of his nation, more so than just in the name of his god. He is religious, but not fanatical.
On that note, are there any good PF martial "leader" kind of classes? Or any from 3.5 for that matter, I could just tweak it for PF.

[Hunter Noventa]

Not quite! I just want the class to fit him kinda thematically. He's going to be one of the central figures in my PC's campaign, and taking part in the battles that they themselves will be joining. Its going to get to a point where he is going to be fighting powerful warriors and leaders of other nations, and depending on how my PC's treat the initial plot hook, he will either be a BBEG for them to try and oppose, or a benefactor that they'll be supporting.

I think inquisitor might not be a bad idea, just homebrew some of the fluff so that he is "inquisiting" in the name of his nation, more so than just in the name of his god. He is religious, but not fanatical.
On that note, are there any good PF martial "leader" kind of classes? Or any from 3.5 for that matter, I could just tweak it for PF.

The PF Cavalier has some leaderish qualities, but the Inquisitor could do well too.

Inquisitors aren't necessarily tied to a deity either, they can simply be a champion of their chosen domain. Inquisitors also get free Teamwork Feats, good for a leader, great if they have followers that take them too.

[JusticeZero]

Well, if your campaign has psionics in it, there is the Tactician.. which is pretty much that ("a martial leader") verbatim. The Bard also is very good for that.

[DMVerdandi]

In the roman empire, virtue was a quality that all men had. However, the virtue of each man was different depending on class. Those without class had potestas. The ability to use violence to advance. Those in the military had Imperium, which was the power to command an army (Maintained by a select few). The power of the Patrician class and by proxy, the senatus, was Auctoritas.

Auctoritas is the ability to command anyone based on ones birth or deeds. They are invested with the powers to make others listen because of who they are. Not unlike the authority that a scientist has when he makes a claim, a patrician's auctoritas was a wise suggestion to follow, and an unwise suggestion to go against. Off with your head unwise...

How do we translate that into DND? I would have extended to the elements themselves, using spellcasting to describe auctoritas, however, that does not seem to be your interest, so I would suggest a marshal/warblade.

The reasons why the Patricians were the aristocrats in the first place was because they were a warrior class. They held both imperium and auctoritas as a group, and potestas as individuals. They were the best fed, best bred, and best educated. Penultimate folk.

Since there is no true aristocrat class to embody all that awesome, martial will do. It's not even about performance, it's about aura. Even sleeping, the authority of a patrician to a prole or pleb is enough to make them want nothing more than to serve.


Using Psionics for the patrician class would be awesome too. Treating them as higher evolved beings, and possibly giving them all the phrenic template would be cool.

[Humble Master]

Warblade could work because they use their Intelligence in combat and are taught a secret sword fighting technique. PrC wise you could maybe use a refluffed Purple Dragon Knight (from Complete Warrior) or a Warpriest (from Complete Warrior).

[Bakkan]

I'd consider LN cleric, likely not cloistered since you want him on the front lines. I realize this might cause a conflict with how you might want to stat up the pseudo-Roman priests, but they could be wizards, cloistered clerics, or even something like warlocks or beguilers.

[Vaz]

Note; This is a non-caster, and requires waving of the limitation of Epic Leadership limits

While not a Caster, you could take a look at the Crane Clan Courtier from the Rokugan Campaign Setting; you need the Rokugan Campaign Setting Book and the Secrets of the Crane Clan. There is a Courtier ability which grants 6 opportunities to take several abilities; including Doji's Beauty; +2 to Cha and a +1 to Diplomacy; 20 levels nets you +12 to Diplomacy checks.

If you don't mind the book keeping, and having a "bodyguard", you gain a Samurai or Fighter bodyguard for free. It's not quite clear as to how many levels you must take, but it could be the start of a Gish.

If you take Leadership at 6th level, and 6*Doji's Beauty, along with an Old Human with Maximum Charisma (+5 Tome and +6 Item), at 20th level, you've got a Charisma Score of 48. Your Leadership score gets a further +3 Boost; resulting in a Leadership score of 42, even before modifiers included within Power of Faerun and the PHB, etc. The important thing is that it then does not have to be a Fighter/Samurai either.

To increase that Leadership score into epic levels;
- add Commander and Decoration bonus as a commander of any army (Heroes of Battle)
- if you're a religious leader; bonuses for Rank (Archbishop etc), performing miracles (raise dead etc),
- if you're a commerce leader (i.e actual merchant prince, rather than a leader of a wealthy place), own profitable businesses, be favoured in a guild and/or guildmaster, own a monopoly on trade/be a member of an oligarchy etc.
- Frontier leader etc.

If you manage to get all of these, you can quickly push your Leadership into ~Mid 70s with the Rulership Feat (Power of Faerun); this gives you;

(assuming 70 for ease)

Feats
Leadership, Rulership, Extra Followers, Might Makes Right (assuming 16 Str after modifiers)

Cohort Max Level; 35 (limited to 18 for Character Level)
8000 Level 1 Followers, 800 L2, 400 L3, 200 L4, 100 L5, 50 L6, 25 L7, 12 L8, 6 L9, 3 L10, 1 L11.

This gives you an influence modifier of +65ish; influence affecting "Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Perform, Sense Motive" - all checks which should be maximised anyhow and Bardic Music and other Charisma Checks), alongside Knowledge checks regarding rulership; while these only affect those who you actually have influence over (such as in the senate, war council, etc), this is pushing out checks of around 100+. Maximise your UMD and get Wands of Divine Insight and Improvisation for a further +25 to the check.

If that doesn't pull your fancy, I've made a quick comparison to the other clan and general abilities


Courtier Comparisons
Crab
Wily Trader | +10 Gossip, with regards to items sold/for sale, +1 Profession/+2 Profession (Merchant)
Prodigy | Two Class Skills, Gain +2 Bonus
Fear is a gift | Intimidate versus Sense Motive gains +2 Attack rolls and Cha based skills/abilities on target
Crane
Doji's Beauty | +2 to Charisma, +1 cumulative to Diplomacy
Doji's Blessing | +2 Enhance Bonus to Ability Score, lasts hour/courtier, Cha Bonus+3 times a day
Emperor's Left Hand | Learn One Courtier Ability of another Clan
Dragon
Kitsuki's Scrutiny | Gain +10 on Hide/Listen/Move Silently/Search/Spot/Sense Motive
Be the Mountain | +4 Morale Bonus on will saves versus enemy you've already passed a save on versus Illusion
Justicator | Standard Action to Intimidate one target in 30ft; name action to gain bonuses if not completed
Lion
Ikoma's Favour | Increase Honour of a nearby character (Perform)
Ikoma's Spite | Decrease Honour of a nearby enemy character (Perform)
Tell The Tale | +10 Gossip/+1 Knowledge/+2 to Knowledge (History)
Mantis
Kuenai | Versus Ronin/Bandits etc Gather Information to learn basic info
Storm Heart | Intimidation Check causes Shaken
Inspiring Presence | Aid Another 30ft to Mantis, able to spend Void Points
Phoenix
Voice of the Void | +3 additional Void bonuses to Will Saves and Int/Wis/Cha based skill rolls
Invincible Mind | Courtier Level+10 SR versus Mind Affecting Spells
Wisdom of the Ancients | +10 Skill Points, instantly
Scorpion
Shallow Waters | Sense Motive versus Bluff/Intimidate/Diplomacy, learn one stat
Scutiny's Sweet Sting | Spend one hour in company, gain bonus in skill tests against
No More Masks | Insult to damage enemy Wisdom
Unicorn
When the Veil's Move | Cha Bonus to Initiative, Take 10 on spot and listen
Eyes of Ide | When taking a Will Save, rolls two saves and takes the better figure
Ide's Blessing | Immune to Int/Wis/Cha Damage
General
The Better Part of Valour | Int to AC (Dodge) when taking Total Defence Action
The Eyes See The Heart | Will Saves to resist Courtiers abilities increase by two, can be chosen twice to stack.
Taunt and Rally | Allies in 50ft have Bless spell, 1 enemy/3 Courtier Levels takes Doom spell.
Voice | 1/day when making Diplomacy/Bluff Check gains a circumstance = Courtier level
Weakness is my Strength | When making opposed mental based check opponent uses lowest score.
Whisper from the Soul | 1/day casts Emotion, +1 time per selection
Your Life Is Mine | 1/day per Charisma modifier, Charms Person

Remember some can be taken more than once (and you have 6 options over 20 levels).

[graymachine]

I'd recommend watching Rome (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_(TV_series)), as it is a good show and will serve as inspiration. That said, the Roman civilization was spread over a long time period and was greatly varied over that period. When are you setting this? I would presume you mean during the supremacy of the Republic, rather than the Imperial period, or the ancient kingdom period.

Also (trying to avoid venturing into forum-prohibited topics), your senator's political opinions are bizarre to the point of political suicide, if not actually suicidal. The Roman economy was based on the issue of his concern and the major interest-holders were the senators. This is actually a subplot in the aforementioned television show.

[Dissonance]

How about a stint as a cavalier / bard before he moves into Battle Herald?

They make good leaders and have sweeping buff tactics and such, making them PERFECT leaders. He would also have (extremely) limited spellcasting from the bard side as well as front line meat from cavalier and herald.

It makes a good high class leader if he is going to be high level. If he is going to be lower, I would just suggest a cavalier. They are basically high class fighters. You could even make him the head of his order :smallbiggrin:

[The Viscount]

If you're willing to use 3.5, I'd second the suggestion for a warblade with a dip or splash of marshal, maybe even eventually a bit of exemplar. White Raven maneuvers are all about tactics, maneuvering allies, and controlling the battlefield, so they fit a commander well.

[Averis Vol]

If you want an intelligent man who can frontline like a warrior, there is always the Magus. He doesn't have much of a charisma synergy, but he is a strong frontliner based off DEX/INT (with dervish dance at least) who still has some magic backing him so he's, ya know,* better than your average scrub (mundane) could ever hope to be.

*no, I'm not happy about this.

[Grayson01]

I would Go Cleric. His Divine Power is just another Proof of his right to rule, Ordainded by the God/s to rule and bring his cause to the rest of the world. Cleric just seams to fit this concept very well.
A leader
Has a goal/view to spread to the rest of the world
Spell caster
Can lead from the front in his sprakly Full Plate
The ablity to inspire and buff his soliders
Clerics (can) spend years studying the rules and laws of their faith
The Strong Ties/influence of religion on politics in anceint city states
CHA is an important ablity score for clerics
Domains can be stated to furth ether his leadership ablilities or his combat