Factotum TO

[centeotl]

Can a factotum 20 combine his SLAs in a way that gives him access to all the spells he doesn't have?

Can a factotum 20 use his SLAs to not lose XP when crafting wondrous items?

[Emperor Tippy]

Can a factotum 20 combine his SLAs in a way that gives him access to all the spells he doesn't have?
No.


Can a factotum 20 use his SLAs to not lose XP when crafting wondrous items?
No.

Hope that helps. :smallwink:

[centeotl]

Ha. I guess it's difficult to do any of these things without being able to cast spells that have XP component.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

He can, however, break the action economy wildly.

[centeotl]

I assume you're not just referring to


Cunning Surge (Ex): Starting at 8th level, you learn to push yourself when needed. By spending 3 inspiration points, you can take an extra standard action during your turn.

[mabriss lethe]

Nope. That's about all you need. (well, that and a few iterations of the Font of Inspiration feat so that you can take an action nova to comical lengths.)

It's especially fun with access to a few ToB maneuvers to pepper in amongst sla's an what-not.

[Harrow]

Nope. That's about all you need. (well, that and a few iterations of the Font of Inspiration feat so that you can take an action nova to comical lengths.)

It's especially fun with access to a few ToB maneuvers to pepper in amongst sla's an what-not.

You call it a nova, but he can do it once every encounter :smallbiggrin:

Well, sure, he can use those actions to spam a bunch of SLA's, but things like gnomish quickrazors, manyshot, and wands work well too.

[Tvtyrant]

VoP Chaos Shuffled into all Font of Inspiration. Now you have enough points to take about 7 actions in a turn. There, nova.

[Emperor Tippy]

VoP Chaos Shuffled into all Font of Inspiration. Now you have enough points to take about 7 actions in a turn. There, nova.

You can get 90+ IP with 13 iterations of FoI.

At 3 used per Cunning Surge you can pretty much shoot a wand dry of charges in a single "free" action.

For extra fun get a Mailman Wand (legal to make). How would you like 12,000 or so damage turned out during the surprise round (or first round)?

[kulosle]

yeah the main problem is that there isn't as much support for the factotum so you can't combine them in silly ways to do stupid things like you can with other classes, plus their is just less support for SLA than for actual spells.

[Tvtyrant]

You can get 90+ IP with 13 iterations of FoI.

At 3 used per Cunning Surge you can pretty much shoot a wand dry of charges in a single "free" action.

For extra fun get a Mailman Wand (legal to make). How would you like 12,000 or so damage turned out during the surprise round (or first round)?

I tip my hat to you sir. Pun Pun Pun.

[Emperor Tippy]

yeah the main problem is that there isn't as much support for the factotum so you can't combine them in silly ways to do stupid things like you can with other classes, plus their is just less support for SLA than for actual spells.

You can combine factotum with plenty of things for silly results.

Factotum 1, Factotum 3, Factotum 4, Factotum 8, and Factotum 11 can all go great with other classes and PrC's.

[Chronos]

I'd never include Factotum 1 in a build, because if Factotum is allowed, I'm always going to take 3 levels of it. Brains over Brawn is just that good.

Factotum 19 is also great, though that pretty much rules out "goes with other classes and PrCs".

It's also arguable that SLAs can be used with metamagic effects, provided that they don't require a higher-level spell slot. Certainly, the sudden metamagics work, and that's the justification given for why. So just use your Arcane Dilettante with any of the couple dozen other methods of getting metamagic.

EDIT: Why the breakpoint at level 4? Just for Cunning Strike? In that case, I'd rather take Factotum 3 and 1 level of psychic rogue or spellthief or whatever. At that level the Factotum only has a base of 3 inspiration points, for a max of 3d6 sneak attack per combat (if you don't use it for anything else), and a real sneak attacker should be able to get sneak attack applied to more than 3 attacks. You could get more with Font, of course, but if you're investing into Font, you should probably be sticking with Factotum to at least 8.

[Emperor Tippy]

I'd never include Factotum 1 in a build, because if Factotum is allowed, I'm always going to take 3 levels of it. Brains over Brawn is just that good.
I've seen a couple of builds where it was useful. And remember, FoI is limited solely by your Int modifier not your Factotum level.

Gray Elf Factotum 1/Fighter 19 with VoP shuffled feats for FoI can make a pretty decent Int/Dex based fighter. But yes, Factotum 3 is most of the time a far better choice.


Factotum 19 is also great, though that pretty much rules out "goes with other classes and PrCs".
Factotum 19/Mindbender 1 (or Swordsage 1).


It's also arguable that SLAs can be used with metamagic effects, provided that they don't require a higher-level spell slot. Certainly, the sudden metamagics work, and that's the justification given for why. So just use your Arcane Dilettante with any of the couple dozen other methods of getting metamagic.

"If you wish to enhance a spell with a metamagic feat, you must apply the feat when you prepare the spell. In addition, you must be capable of using a spell of the modified spell’s level."

The last two lines of Arcane Dilettante.


EDIT: Why the breakpoint at level 4? Just for Cunning Strike? In that case, I'd rather take Factotum 3 and 1 level of psychic rogue or spellthief or whatever. At that level the Factotum only has a base of 3 inspiration points, for a max of 3d6 sneak attack per combat (if you don't use it for anything else), and a real sneak attacker should be able to get sneak attack applied to more than 3 attacks. You could get more with Font, of course, but if you're investing into Font, you should probably be sticking with Factotum to at least 8.
More your are in it for Brains Over Brawn and all skills as class skills on a Rogue and dipping the one extra level lets you pick up a good bit of extra SA damage when you want it.

And Factotum 4/ Rogue 1/ Feat Rogue 14/ Swordsage 1 who spends all of the Feat Rogue feats on Font of Inspiration (up until he hits his Int cap) ends up far more useful than just a Rogue 20 in pretty much every respect.

[SciChronic]

Factotum 8 is the best breakpoint for a mid-level campaign when you multi-class into a ToB class, likely the warblade for int synergy, or Swoirdsage if your DM allows Kung Fu Genius to work on Swordsage.

Factotum is also arguably the best class to go into Chameleon, while Able Learner is simply a feat tax, everything else you get pairs amazingly well.

[Piggy Knowles]

How about... Factotum 8/Warblade 2/Legacy Champion 10?

Use Legacy Champion to progress warblade, which should bootstrap IL considerably. End result is a factotum with Cunning Surge, and a warblade with IL 19 for 9th-level maneuvers. Load up on FoI and enjoy.

[Chronos]

And Factotum 4/ Rogue 1/ Feat Rogue 14/ Swordsage 1 who spends all of the Feat Rogue feats on Font of Inspiration (up until he hits his Int cap) ends up far more useful than just a Rogue 20 in pretty much every respect.
First of all, I don't think you can take levels in two different variants of the same base class. Second, Feat Rogue works like the fighter class feature, which means you can only take fighter feats for the bonus feats (though I expect you're probably just planning on chaos shuffling them). Third, while that build is better than just rogue 20, you could do better yet with less rogue and more factotum, so 4 isn't really the logical breakpoint.

[Emperor Tippy]

First of all, I don't think you can take levels in two different variants of the same base class.
That might be true.


Second, Feat Rogue works like the fighter class feature, which means you can only take fighter feats for the bonus feats (though I expect you're probably just planning on chaos shuffling them).
Chaos can solve all your ills.


Third, while that build is better than just rogue 20, you could do better yet with less rogue and more factotum, so 4 isn't really the logical breakpoint.
Well yes, very few things are better with less factotum. :smallwink:

[Chronos]

Come to think of it, the rogue/feat rogue thing isn't a big deal, either. Just replace the ordinary rogue with some other class, like spellthief or psychic rogue.

In an all-books environment, a rogue-type I build is going to end up composed almost entirely of dips: Something like factotum 3, psirogue 1, incarnate 1, umbral disciple 3, ranger 1, slayer 4, uncanny trickster (advancing slayer) 3, marshal 1, exemplar 1. Which leaves a couple unfilled levels, which might as well be filled with more factotum, but could really be anything.

[SciChronic]

Come to think of it, the rogue/feat rogue thing isn't a big deal, either. Just replace the ordinary rogue with some other class, like spellthief or psychic rogue.

In an all-books environment, a rogue-type I build is going to end up composed almost entirely of dips: Something like factotum 3, psirogue 1, incarnate 1, umbral disciple 3, ranger 1, slayer 4, uncanny trickster (advancing slayer) 3, marshal 1, exemplar 1. Which leaves a couple unfilled levels, which might as well be filled with more factotum, but could really be anything.

or swordsage for maneuvers