Wolfang237
2013-06-15, 08:54 AM
I have been playing around with a lot of builds since my players have been asking me for ideas on how to build their characters (for example one wanted to play a Dragon Disciple so a bunch of research later, he thought maybe instead he'd like to do Arcane Knight. After telling him to 'keep it simple, stupid' since he's new he resorted to Magus, where the Hexcraft archetype came in.
I have also been messing with Cavalier recently since I've been more interested in mounted combat and my best Pathfinder buddy is a Cavalier/Samurai nerd. I thought it'd be easy to pull off a halfling cavalier indoors and, sure enough, people have suggested it.
While making some characters and exploring I found that, with teamwork feats, it looked like the Halfing Cavalier could actually solve Action Economy issues for builds that depend on full attack actions (TWFers and Monks namely) in melee both indoors and outdoors - Coordinated Charge or Act as One (Order of the Dragon 1/combat) gets the TWFers in position and lays them up for full attack actions.
Now here's how it all comes around: as a witch I use Ratfolk for slight bonuses to defense and the +5 ft range on a hex class option. And when I was checking over my witch I noticed the Swarming racial trait: Ratfolks can occupy an allied Ratfolk's square no penalty and even flank from it. Doesn't that actually open up a TWF rogue to a whole new level of proficiency in wrecking?
The biggest class that would have an issue to the cavalier action economy was Rogues since charging wouldn't necessarily set up flanking positions and charge stealthing sounds impossible :l I guess you could feint in the full round? With ratfolk you can stay in the IDENTICAL spot as you other ratfolk rogue buddy, charge the same enemies, move at the same paces, and even take [Escape Route] to keep from getting hit by AoOs (for 1 guy, I guess since the other won't benefit unless they move reeeaaaallll slow) and all the while be able to trigger flanking bonuses.
So this is a party build I REALLY wanna try now: Ratfolk Witch, 2 Ratfolk Rogues (whatever TWF build you wanna sport), and a Halfing Mounted cavalier. Ironically, every race is small for this party build - which was unintended. These combos just seem to work out? Only other thing I could think of is to get a ranger or druid, give his companion to the witch so that Cackle is now mobile (and with the range increases, you can move in, apply a hex, and move out and just cackle to keep it up since at 10th level you have an 80ft range on cackle) and then either use a spell list (druid) to rain sweet natural pains down upon the non-focused enemies (to keep em off the squishy rogues - anything to separate enemies and allow for focus firing by the two uber-pwning rogues is essential), use wildshape (druid) to get some pouncing business in there yourself, or use a TWF/charge build on Ranger or Archer build on Ranger to deal with pesky spellcasters and archers.
OBVIOUSLY this build is going to be COMPLETELY SHORTHANDED on ANY encounter with PRECISION DAMAGE IMMUNITY (Undead? Constructs?) so rogues won't always be the best TWF chargers here - sometimes just doing basically good dmg with your full attacks is better, so maybe a barbarian or ranger or fighter is better off here. The only point to this was that, with ratfolk, you can start getting sneak attacks in without any worries to not having full-attack actions or flanking.
Discussion? Corrections? Tips?
EDIT::Since Ratfolk will be small, I'd probably take the Knife Master/ Scout archetypes to receive the full benefits of charging/sneak attacking. Dagger'll do 1d2 (-1 if you don't buff STR which means on your normal attack you do 0-1 dmg) BUT at level 5 each attack does +3d8 dmg from Sneak Attacks (any charge granted for positioning by your precious Cavalier and any attack you make because you SHOULD be swarming with your buddy). hell even at level 1 you'll do 1d8 (not on charges), at 3 you'll do 2d8, and 4 it's 2d8 on charges, etc. I know it's not as much as the rogue wielding a shortsword for 1d6+1d6 but it's all for the tactic of setting up full sneak attack actions reliably and buffing the main damage: the sneak die. early levels will likely be tough since your damage relies on the 1d8. Sneak attack shouldn't be a problem with swarming so unless you're fighting undead (or something similar) you could probably reliably pull off the 1d8s at a +2 to hit every time. First 2 Talents would prob be finesse rogue and weapon training. After that start buffing normally. At 10 you can pull off 15d8 + 6 STR and you get 5 AC for 1 round. And that's same for yer buddy. Both have +5 AC and the target took 12 str dmg and 30d8 sneak attack (plus 6d2, I guess). (Offensive Defense and Crippling Strike). Not to mention the charge on the first round (+4 flanking and charging [which is +6 with banner and +8 if it's Move as One), +3 AC because -2 for charging) does 5d8 + 2 STR. So in 1 round for the Rogue He and his buddy combine for 10d8 + 4 STR on charge + 30d8 + 12 STR on full attack. (40d8 + 16 STR to target). Let's hope the target didn't have Uncanny Dodge and isn't immune to Sneak plus this all assumes they hit. But hey - why wouldn't they? At 10th level the witch is cackling away and whatever target you go at should have been prepped ahead of time with a -4 to AC and you should have fortune for a single reroll every round. If you don't hit (with a +8 on charges [+10/+12] and +6 on full attack and you can choose to reroll any of the 4 attacks you will make) then you probably just rolled badly. If you hit, then the 16 STR dmg is probably enough to immobilize A LOT of enemies you'll meet. Especially casters and archers. Yay!
Anyway - a good idea is to only charge (or try to) targets that have to go after the rogues so that the rogues have a chance of applying a -16 to their strength (-8 to attack) and get a +5 AC. That can probably keep them from getting hit. If not, the witch could probably invest in Ward to give the rogues another +3 to AC at 10.
I have also been messing with Cavalier recently since I've been more interested in mounted combat and my best Pathfinder buddy is a Cavalier/Samurai nerd. I thought it'd be easy to pull off a halfling cavalier indoors and, sure enough, people have suggested it.
While making some characters and exploring I found that, with teamwork feats, it looked like the Halfing Cavalier could actually solve Action Economy issues for builds that depend on full attack actions (TWFers and Monks namely) in melee both indoors and outdoors - Coordinated Charge or Act as One (Order of the Dragon 1/combat) gets the TWFers in position and lays them up for full attack actions.
Now here's how it all comes around: as a witch I use Ratfolk for slight bonuses to defense and the +5 ft range on a hex class option. And when I was checking over my witch I noticed the Swarming racial trait: Ratfolks can occupy an allied Ratfolk's square no penalty and even flank from it. Doesn't that actually open up a TWF rogue to a whole new level of proficiency in wrecking?
The biggest class that would have an issue to the cavalier action economy was Rogues since charging wouldn't necessarily set up flanking positions and charge stealthing sounds impossible :l I guess you could feint in the full round? With ratfolk you can stay in the IDENTICAL spot as you other ratfolk rogue buddy, charge the same enemies, move at the same paces, and even take [Escape Route] to keep from getting hit by AoOs (for 1 guy, I guess since the other won't benefit unless they move reeeaaaallll slow) and all the while be able to trigger flanking bonuses.
So this is a party build I REALLY wanna try now: Ratfolk Witch, 2 Ratfolk Rogues (whatever TWF build you wanna sport), and a Halfing Mounted cavalier. Ironically, every race is small for this party build - which was unintended. These combos just seem to work out? Only other thing I could think of is to get a ranger or druid, give his companion to the witch so that Cackle is now mobile (and with the range increases, you can move in, apply a hex, and move out and just cackle to keep it up since at 10th level you have an 80ft range on cackle) and then either use a spell list (druid) to rain sweet natural pains down upon the non-focused enemies (to keep em off the squishy rogues - anything to separate enemies and allow for focus firing by the two uber-pwning rogues is essential), use wildshape (druid) to get some pouncing business in there yourself, or use a TWF/charge build on Ranger or Archer build on Ranger to deal with pesky spellcasters and archers.
OBVIOUSLY this build is going to be COMPLETELY SHORTHANDED on ANY encounter with PRECISION DAMAGE IMMUNITY (Undead? Constructs?) so rogues won't always be the best TWF chargers here - sometimes just doing basically good dmg with your full attacks is better, so maybe a barbarian or ranger or fighter is better off here. The only point to this was that, with ratfolk, you can start getting sneak attacks in without any worries to not having full-attack actions or flanking.
Discussion? Corrections? Tips?
EDIT::Since Ratfolk will be small, I'd probably take the Knife Master/ Scout archetypes to receive the full benefits of charging/sneak attacking. Dagger'll do 1d2 (-1 if you don't buff STR which means on your normal attack you do 0-1 dmg) BUT at level 5 each attack does +3d8 dmg from Sneak Attacks (any charge granted for positioning by your precious Cavalier and any attack you make because you SHOULD be swarming with your buddy). hell even at level 1 you'll do 1d8 (not on charges), at 3 you'll do 2d8, and 4 it's 2d8 on charges, etc. I know it's not as much as the rogue wielding a shortsword for 1d6+1d6 but it's all for the tactic of setting up full sneak attack actions reliably and buffing the main damage: the sneak die. early levels will likely be tough since your damage relies on the 1d8. Sneak attack shouldn't be a problem with swarming so unless you're fighting undead (or something similar) you could probably reliably pull off the 1d8s at a +2 to hit every time. First 2 Talents would prob be finesse rogue and weapon training. After that start buffing normally. At 10 you can pull off 15d8 + 6 STR and you get 5 AC for 1 round. And that's same for yer buddy. Both have +5 AC and the target took 12 str dmg and 30d8 sneak attack (plus 6d2, I guess). (Offensive Defense and Crippling Strike). Not to mention the charge on the first round (+4 flanking and charging [which is +6 with banner and +8 if it's Move as One), +3 AC because -2 for charging) does 5d8 + 2 STR. So in 1 round for the Rogue He and his buddy combine for 10d8 + 4 STR on charge + 30d8 + 12 STR on full attack. (40d8 + 16 STR to target). Let's hope the target didn't have Uncanny Dodge and isn't immune to Sneak plus this all assumes they hit. But hey - why wouldn't they? At 10th level the witch is cackling away and whatever target you go at should have been prepped ahead of time with a -4 to AC and you should have fortune for a single reroll every round. If you don't hit (with a +8 on charges [+10/+12] and +6 on full attack and you can choose to reroll any of the 4 attacks you will make) then you probably just rolled badly. If you hit, then the 16 STR dmg is probably enough to immobilize A LOT of enemies you'll meet. Especially casters and archers. Yay!
Anyway - a good idea is to only charge (or try to) targets that have to go after the rogues so that the rogues have a chance of applying a -16 to their strength (-8 to attack) and get a +5 AC. That can probably keep them from getting hit. If not, the witch could probably invest in Ward to give the rogues another +3 to AC at 10.