Healing in a 4e 3 PC group

[SgtGruber]

So, I'm a long time reader first time caller... Well, whatever.
I'm soon to be starting a new campaign with 3 others (1 DM and 3 PCs). I've never played with less than 5 but from what I've read, 3 PCs in a 4e campaign is perfectly fine. The 2 other PCs are brand new to DnD, but well experienced with RPGs, so I think they'll catch on pretty quickly. Out of the 4 of us I have the most experience playing 4e. They have chosen to be a Fighter and a Rogue. So we potentially have a Defender and a Striker (based on how they build) and that leaves the role of Leader open.

Now to my question: Would it be possible to heal and buff this group with a Paladin? (I'm leaning to dragonborn as the race.

I am wanting to be able to stand in the fray and offer up some damage output as well as drop significant heals. I don't have to be the "center of attention" but I also really don't enjoy playing casting classes (pew-pew is no fun to me). I've also talked to the DM and he has allowed me the option (if I think we need to) to play a second character of my choice.

So just picking brains and seeking advice with my conundrum.

[SgtGruber]

Oh, I've tinkered with one, and here are the basic stats (with racial bonuses):

18 - Str
16 - Con
10 - Dex
8 - Int
18 - Wis
14 - Cha

Scale armor
B-stard sword
Heavy shield

[allonym]

Paladins can minor in leader, this is true, but unless you have short days, you'll find yourself running out of uses of Lay on Hands. Having a high wis helps with that, of course. You also have very little buffing to speak of - A bit of THP granting and a hanful of save granting and bonuses are nice but won't make you a leader. Also, straladins make much less effective secondary leaders than chaladins.

If the group already has a defender, may I ask why you are going with Paladin? If you love the character or have roleplaying reasons, fair enough, but your high HP and defences, your core class features, and many of your best powers will be going to waste.
If it's just about being able to mix it up in melee and deal decent damage along with heaing, there are better options - warlords (avoiding the lazy powers and archer powers), valorous bards and str-clerics spring immediately to mind, you could play a perfectly effective member of those classes without a single implement power.

[Sol]

You may well be able to scrape by with a paladin, but...why? Two defenders interfere with eachother more than two of any other role. In a large party, they are the first or second role I tend to double up on, but that's because of the sheer number of monsters a 5-6 player party faces. A 3 PC party should be more than covered by a fighter.

A BCL cleric, runepriest, or battlefront warlord can achieve the same AC as a paladin, while offering a lot more actual leader oomph (healing is often considered the least relevant job of a Leader in 4e).

If you can, convince the rogue to take brutal scoundrel, riposte strike, and vigilante justice style to create a perfect catch-22 with the fighter.

I'd go bravura warlord in a tiny melee party. You get to be tough, and you get to deal damage yourself as well as enable attacks from the rogue.

[Ashdate]

You can probably fluff a lot of what makes the Paladin tick with a Strength-based Cleric.

What is it about being a Paladin that excites you?

[SgtGruber]

Well, a paladin is not set into stone. I know that a paladin is a Defender primarily with other roles second. I ran a previous campaign where a paladin had great healing sweeping up behind a cleric, so I popped into my head that maybe it's not too bad at it.

I'm not as incredibly familiar with the game as most people on here. Even though I have the "most" experience with it from our group, that's a total of 5 campaigns under my belt.

So... Since I'm probably going to scrap this pally, what race/class combo make the best "in the fray" healer??

As for role playing, it's pretty much anything goes with the exception of alignment. We must be lawful good. Anything else is fair game.

Thanks for the input!!

Also, I have access to pretty much all 4e literature.

[dariathalon]

Paladins are not bad healers, but they aren't usually a very good substitute for a full leader. You could probably build a paladin that would allow you to get by, but its not ideal (especially since you've already got a defender).

Warlord is probably your best bet for what you've described. Though runepriest and ardent would also be fine choices. Heck, almost any of the leaders has a melee option.

What else are you looking for besides melee and healing?

[Dimers]

If you want to make sure your healing stretches as far as possible, go Cleric.

Cleric is also a good choice because it's got a fair number of (soft) control powers available and your party lacks a controller. The rogue might minor in control too, but the fighter doesn't do it other than by being sticky.

[SgtGruber]

Warlord is probably your best bet for what you've described. Though runepriest and ardent would also be fine choices. Heck, almost any of the leaders has a melee option.

What else are you looking for besides melee and healing?

Well, I've only ever played a striker class (except that one time I was a Fighter, but still built very strikery). I'm trying to branch out, but at the same time I need a character that can essentially help "carry" a team (dish out the heals while sitting in the heat).

I like the warlord and runepriest ideas, but what builds would be best? Like, stats, feats and basic moves?

[dariathalon]

A lot of building a good leader in my opinion is understanding the way your party is going to operate. You really need to know what they are bringing to the table in order to know how to best enhance those abilities (and how to avoid overlapping with them). For example, you don't want to rely on giving basic attacks to the rogue if he doesn't have a good mba and you don't want to focus on handing out temps to the fighter if he has a lot of invigorating powers himself.

If you don't mind doing it, a tactical warlord would be good with your party. They can give their party members a lot of extra attacks, which works well for both the other player's classes. Give the fighter an extra mark by allowing him to make an extra attack or give the rogue an attack on your turn (meaning he'll be able to use his sneak attack damage again). I say if you don't mind doing it, because an enabling warlord is not everybody's cup of tea. Some people find it boring to use their many of turns to let someone else do something cool. If you do this, I'd go with a str/int build (yes a lazy warlord can get by without strength, but I don't imagine you wanting to do a purely lazy build). For race, just pick something that catches your eye. As long as it has a bonus to at least one of the two, you should be able to work the rest of the stats.

Another warlord option that is often overlooked, but is one of my favorites is the insightful warlord. I think a lot of people put it together with the archer warlord, but it doesn't have to be. You can create a perfectly respectable insightful melee build. Expect lots of off-turn attacks for insightful warlords. For this I would suggest str/wis.

[allonym]

Since SgtGruber seemed to want to mix it up in melee and avoid "spellcasting" feel, I'd really not recommend a taclord. Definitely not one concentrating on the "lazy" powers (those which enable allies to attack rather than oneself). It's a very boring build to play at the best of times.

I'd definitely recommend a Bravura warlord. Unless your rogue is an Artful Dodger, you'll be lacking anyone with charisma. Brash Assault with Harlequin Style is awesome, and Intuitive Strike will be useful to set up your rogue for his biggest blows. It also works exceedingly well with Dragonborn.

If the rogue IS an Artful Dodger, and has no strength to speak of, they won't be getting as much out of your ability to grant attacks, which is the Warlord's main thing, so you might consider another class - but if they're willing to drop a feat for Melee Training, they'll be fine.

[Tegu8788]

A Str-Cleric, Warlord, or Ardent would be good. An Artificer could be good as well, buffing and healing in melee.

[Gavran]

I just had a similar thread and after the advice of many kind posters I decided to go with a melee Warlord (inspiring). So far it has worked out very nicely, and I think it would work quite well for you too.

As others have said, there are lots of melee leaders. Valorous bard is another option I didn't see anyone post.

[Fecar]

I have had a good experience playing a sentinel druid in a small party - the wolf companion feature of the druid of spring forces all enemies next to the wolf to grant combat advantage which is great for your rogue. Sentinels have good healing, strong defences, HP and with the wolf and access to druid at-wills can help with the lack of controller in your small group.

A decent alternative I have seen used to increase the parties healing is to take two shaman multiclass feats: Spirit Talker and Mending Spirit. This gives you a once per encounter heal and you can slap this on pretty much any class.

[Epinephrine]

Glad someone else mentioned the Sentinel; adding an extra body in a small party is a big difference. Since you've said you don't like spellcasters, the Sentinel druid isn't much of a caster. They get in and mix it up in melee. The wolf version tends to be accurate, the bear version swings a nasty staff of club (the bear power changes clubs to 1d10 damage and staffs to 1d12).

The wolf is fun and would benefit your rogue (CA), but even a bear offers another flanker, and the +2 defense aura is a nice passive boost. And it hits pretty hard, with 1d12+Wis+Con as base damage (not brilliant, but your encounter power Combined Attack consists of you smacking the foe with your staff and the bear laying some smack down as well, so you are hitting pretty hard, controlling some territory with the animal companion, adding a nice defensive buff, and providing a tempting target for the enemies in the form of your animal (it has weak AC compared to your party), which is really efficient in using surges (heals to full on a short rest if it is alive, takes a surge to revive otherwise).

[Sol]

While I'm not ragging on the sentinel here, it has the same problems as a paladin built as a healer - it's not a leader.

It has very, very few ways to grant saving throws, zero ways to grant allies extra attacks, and very few buffing abilities. The Druid has some interesting utility powers, but without encounter and daily power choices (and a mandatory encounter power that does absolutely nothing but damage), it simply doesn't have enough of a toolset to count as a leader.

For a very low level game, this probably doesn't matter. The soft control and added party beefiness of a fourth token on the map isn't worthless. The difference between combined attack and, say, Race the Arrow, is basically sneak attack damage, which isn't that huge yet. But animal companions' damage and accuracy doesn't scale properly compared to PCs, so as the party levels more, the wolf will get comparatively worse.

[Kurald Galain]

While I'm not ragging on the sentinel here, it has the same problems as a paladin built as a healer - it's not a leader.

This, very much.

"Fun to play" is not the same thing as "powerful". The sentinel's damage is weak compared to real strikers, and it doesn't do anything to compensate for that other than throwing a healing word twice per encounter. It's nice that an animal companion can give free CA, but any rogue worth his salt can make his own CA anyway.

[Arkhosia]

Now to my question: Would it be possible to heal and buff this group with a Paladin? (I'm leaning to dragonborn as the race.

I am wanting to be able to stand in the fray and offer up some damage output as well as drop significant heals. I don't have to be the "center of attention" but I also really don't enjoy playing casting classes (pew-pew is no fun to me). I've also talked to the DM and he has allowed me the option (if I think we need to) to play a second character of my choice.

So just picking brains and seeking advice with my conundrum.

I know that in all likelyhood I was ninja'd, but a multiclass cleric would give you'll slight ability with healing word 1/day, and feats at lv. 4, 8, etc. to replace a learned power with a cleric power, although not the most reliable.
The feat combat medic could also help.
However, hybrid cleric/paladin, as I'm sure others have said before, would work rather well, as you could easily play a defense/support roll.