Need help with a "pole" fighter

[GutterFace]

I am trying to help a friend who wants to make a pole arm type combatant. does anyone have some solid advice to start with? (starting at level 1) and weapon advice? he also said a bunch of times that he hates tripping, sadly.

base class, weapons, feats, etc :)

and possible a Prc for later if anyone has solid ideas?

thanks!

[Malvanis]

There is a feat called Hold The Line where you can ready a polearm against a charge and get an attack of opportunity that does extra damage. He could get mounted combat feats and get some ranks in Ride to use a polearm such as a longspear or a lance to use some mounted combat charging feats with. Yeah, that seems like a good idea to me. If you wanted to go the mounted combat route maybe a paladin or a druid so you could get a special mount. There is a prestige class in Complete Adventurer that focuses on mounted combat I think it's called wild plains outrider or something like that.

[Malvanis]

Came up with the build for ya:

Race: Halfling

Class:
1: Scout
2: Scout
3: Scout
4: Scout
5: Scout
6: Halfling Outrider

Yeah, just max halfling outrider, and after that go for scout. Get mounted combat, Spirited Charge, Ride by Attack. Use Spirited Charge and Ride by attack to do tons of damage then ride away again. Your skirmish ability from the Scout class improves your Ride by Attack/Spirited Attack damage if you move far enough. Focus on skirmish tactics and never get cornered or in a position where you cannot perform hit and run tactics.

[Gavinfoxx]

Here ya go

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415

He should use a Guisarme, or a reflavored spiked chain as a polearm.

Edit: Why does he hate tripping? Polearms aren't useful for much else other than that and Stand Still.

He should use Stand Still, then, if he doesn't want to trip...

[Flickerdart]

Your skirmish ability from the Scout class improves your Ride by Attack/Spirited Attack damage if you move far enough.
It doesn't, they errataed it out. Even if it did, the dice wouldn't multiply.

If he doesn't want to trip with a polearm, what does he want to do with it?

[JaronK]

He could just do the standard charging thing. Or something really simple: Warblade.

By the way, Salt and Sea Dogs from Kalamar has the Pike, a martial weapon (1d10 20/X3 critical) that has 5' past normal reach, for 11gp. Not bad if you don't care about tripping. Combine that with something like Fighter 2/Warblade X and you have something simple and solid.

JaronK

[eggynack]

Here ya go

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415

He should use a Guisarme, or a reflavored spiked chain as a polearm.

Edit: Why does he hate tripping? Polearms aren't useful for much else other than that and Stand Still.

He should use Stand Still, then, if he doesn't want to trip...
That was my first impression too. I mean, he could always run a bog standard charging build, but with a guisarme instead of a greatsword. You lose out on two damage, but you gain reach, and reach is kinda nice I guess. It's probably a downgrade, cause those builds are mostly based around super-fast damage, but an ubercharger isn't going to not kill stuff over smaller damage dice. It'd mostly be a choice based on flavor, but that's not the worst thing in the world.

Edit: What a tragedy it is, to have a comment made obsolete by the words of the past. Once upon a time, I acted with such speed that all in my wake were swordsage'd. I fear that those times are gone now. I shall have to content myself with always coming in second place, always living in the shadow of better men. Look upon me now, for soon I shall be nothing.

[GutterFace]

Flicker - he just wants to melee, and loves pole arms....haha to each his own


these are good suggestions. i forgot all about scout. this is good stuff!

[Jormengand]

Just use Combat reflexes and Stand Still. Hold The Line is nice too, and give the man a glaive. If you're [playing/allowed to use things from] PF, chuck a Lucerne Hammer in his hands and give him Near and Far and Combat Patrol. If you're allowed homebrewed classes, the Honour Guard Path of the Halberdier is designed for this very purpose. It depends on what source material you're allowed.

EDIT: Stupid autocorrect.

[Malvanis]

The scout from Complete Adventurer gets extra damage on attacks if they move more than ten feet before making the attack. The dice would not multiply, that is true, though if you have 5 levels of scout you would still get +3d6 damage per attack, and later on for every two levels it's an additional +1d6. That damage adds up. At lvl 20 if he was Outrider 10/Scout 10 He would be getting +5d6 damage an attack, for an average of 15 extra damage per hit. Now, assume that he could make one attack a round, for his scout levels he would be getting 15 extra damage per round every round. So if he made three attacks that would be an extra 45 damage, that's a lot of damage even against tougher creatures.

[Gavinfoxx]

The scout from Complete Adventurer gets extra damage on attacks if they move more than ten feet before making the attack. The dice would not multiply, that is true, though if you have 5 levels of scout you would still get +3d6 damage per attack, and later on for every two levels it's an additional +1d6. That damage adds up. At lvl 20 if he was Outrider 10/Scout 10 He would be getting +5d6 damage an attack, for an average of 15 extra damage per hit. Now, assume that he could make one attack a round, for his scout levels he would be getting 15 extra damage per round every round. So if he made three attacks that would be an extra 45 damage, that's a lot of damage even against tougher creatures.

Except that the rules don't work like this -- it doesn't work while mounted, AND he's not getting full attacks...

[Malvanis]

Except that the rules don't work like this -- it doesn't work while mounted, AND he's not getting full attacks...

Really? Damn. That was a really cool build idea and I might have used it myself one day.

[mabriss lethe]

Getting reach with a polearm is also a pretty good way to start on an Intimidation escalation (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809) build for a fighter.

[ArcturusV]

There is a feat called Hold The Line where you can ready a polearm against a charge and get an attack of opportunity that does extra damage. He could get mounted combat feats and get some ranks in Ride to use a polearm such as a longspear or a lance to use some mounted combat charging feats with. Yeah, that seems like a good idea to me. If you wanted to go the mounted combat route maybe a paladin or a druid so you could get a special mount. There is a prestige class in Complete Adventurer that focuses on mounted combat I think it's called wild plains outrider or something like that.

See, that "Hold the Line" feat is kinda weird.

... because that's what Polearms already do. Almost all of them have "Inflicts double damage to charging enemies" and reach to get an AoO before you are attacked. I don't recognize it, but if it stacked, that'd be kinda neat. But for all I know it's a Dragon Mag oversight where someone didn't realize they already do that.

I suppose though if he wants to do something slightly different with a "pole" fighter, he could end up doing a chucker. Get a bunch of spear/and or javelins and go into a throwing build. Ranger/Scout perhaps for precision damage run and gun. Thrown weapons tend to work out better than projectile weapons (other than the obscene cost of enchanting them compared to ammunition). A spear is still a spear and he can melee with it if needed. Not the best melee weapon, but you can two hand grip and rip with it, which is the important thing I suppose.

[mabriss lethe]

I suppose though if he wants to do something slightly different with a "pole" fighter, he could end up doing a chucker. Get a bunch of spear/and or javelins and go into a throwing build. Ranger/Scout perhaps for precision damage run and gun. Thrown weapons tend to work out better than projectile weapons (other than the obscene cost of enchanting them compared to ammunition). A spear is still a spear and he can melee with it if needed. Not the best melee weapon, but you can two hand grip and rip with it, which is the important thing I suppose.

This might be a good place to bring up the Atlatl from Sandstorm. Sure, it's only 1d4 damage, which has always irked me a little, but the spears are priced as ammunition, so you can stack weapon enhancements on both the atlatl and the ammunition, and still take advantage of thrown weapon shenanigans.

[Zetapup]

See, that "Hold the Line" feat is kinda weird.

... because that's what Polearms already do. Almost all of them have "Inflicts double damage to charging enemies" and reach to get an AoO before you are attacked. I don't recognize it, but if it stacked, that'd be kinda neat. But for all I know it's a Dragon Mag oversight where someone didn't realize they already do that.

The Hold the Line feat, from Complete Warrior, just lets you take an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters a square you threaten. Note I'm getting this from dndtools, so please let me know if it's at all wrong/inaccurate. Due to the wording, I believe it would stack, giving you an attack of opportunity when they enter the square, and another when they leave the square.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, looks like it would. So you'd get one when he enters, one when he leaves your threatened. Polearms doing double damage on a charger with both. Actually I guess I was reading your original quote wrong as it made it sound like the feat was:

"If you are using a polearm you may make an attack of opportunity against a charger that deals double damage".

But yeah. Would mess up a charger's day really badly. But it's one of those feats that I just can't quite see a use for in general play, despite how nice it appears to be. Just not enough charging enemies out there compared to charging players. Seems more an NPC feat.

[Jormengand]

Yeah, looks like it would. So you'd get one when he enters, one when he leaves your threatened. Polearms doing double damage on a charger with both. Actually I guess I was reading your original quote wrong as it made it sound like the feat was:

"If you are using a polearm you may make an attack of opportunity against a charger that deals double damage".

But yeah. Would mess up a charger's day really badly. But it's one of those feats that I just can't quite see a use for in general play, despite how nice it appears to be. Just not enough charging enemies out there compared to charging players. Seems more an NPC feat.

I dunno, quite a few opponents charge just because they can go twice as far in their move action.

[JaronK]

Hold the Line + Stand Still + Steadfast Boots + Pike should make a pretty solid control character. Not a lot of damage though.

JaronK

[Oontarg]

Have you thought about taking the feat Short Haft from PH 2? Sure you have to take Weapon Focus, but being able to switch the squares you threaten is very nice.

[GutterFace]

this all sounds amazing. my friend is grinning like a madman....i think we created a monster

[Invader]

My question is, what do you have against poles that you're fighting them. :smallamused:

[GutterFace]

My question is, what do you have against poles that you're fighting them. :smallamused:

hahah he asked me if he can take pole dancing as a profession.

[Gavinfoxx]

Eh, I just used spiked armor to threaten adjacent.

[GilesTheCleric]

In my Deities with Reach Weapons thread I posted a fairly simple, non-tripping reach fighter. Be sure to throw in Thicket of Blades, though. I didn't.

[Amiria]

Weapons: The Dwarven Warpike (Races of Stone) is an excellent polearm and imo one of the few exotic weapons that's worth the feat (it has 2d6/x3 slashing or piercing damage, reach, can trip and be set against a charge).