Joining a new IRL group but wondering which would be better: Archivist or Beguiler?

[Giegue]

After much searching I finally found an IRL group, it's a three person group so far, and will be four when I join up. Right now, the party is a barbarian, a generalist wizard, and a monk. The group could really use either a divine caster or a skillmonkey. However, I am not sure which they would benifit from more. I don't usually play skillmonkies due to the fact I always play fullcasters, but as far as skillmonkies are concerned the Beguiler is something I'd be comfortable with and have some experience with. It's still a fullcaster, which is what I like to play, but is also a skillmonkey at the same time, so it can fill the skillmonkey gap the party has as well as make a good face(something else they lack).

On the other hand, however, they have no divine caster either. Divine casting can bring a lot that arcane can't cover, including that dirty word healing and status effect removal, as well as awesome buffs and other such things. I know that, technically, I could get skillmonkey and divine casting with cloistered cleric and the right domain choices, but my IRL wisdom score is horridly low so I could not effectively RP a high wis character, which a cloistered cleric is. Thus, I am stuck with my only choices for divine caster being archivist and spirit shaman, with archivist obviously being better due to the bleh nature of the druid list.

Anyway, here is my issue. Beguiler, while certainly a filler of the skillmonkey role is somewhat redundant casting-wise with a wizard around who probably has just as many, if not more battlefield control and arcane trickery then the beguiler. Archivist has casting that is anything but treading on the toes of the wizard, but is hardly a "skillmonkey" and is not very suited to face duty either, and skillmonkey and face are both two things the party is sorely lacking.

Thus, I turn to you, which class would be better for this group? Would the skillfullness and face ability of the beguiler be more valuable despite it's casting being somewhat redundant with a wizard around or does the benefits of an archivist's divine casting and sheer berth of magical ability outweigh the fact it doesn't fill the skillmonkey and face rolls like the beguiler does?

Also, please, nobody say play a bard. I only play fullcasters usually, and bard is not that....and before you say sublime chord I say please respect my wish of not wanting to play a bard.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Of the two Archivist is the better option. It doesn't have trapfinding, but you can just pick up summon monster 1 for that. Also it has access to Divine Insight (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-adventurer--54/divine-insight--371/) and if you have access to online material there is Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a). Between these two spells and summons you can easily have "skillmonkey" covered.

[ksbsnowowl]

Absolutely go with archivist! So many awesome things you can do with it, and your party mates will love you when you make your knowledge checks and give them bonuses against the monsters they fight.

[Giegue]

I've decided on archivist, but I want to know, should I take Malconvoker, go straight archivist or shoot for another PrC entirely?

[Thurbane]

The Paragnostic Apostle (CC) PrC isn't bad for an Archivist. You get Lore, and some of the Knowledge is Power abilities are neat - Call of Worlds, Manifest Ethos, Mind over Matter and Spatial Awareness are fairly good.

If you cast Longstrider using with the Spatial Awareness ability, you get +20ft to your movement for 1 hour/level.

[Mithril Leaf]

I've decided on archivist, but I want to know, should I take Malconvoker, go straight archivist or shoot for another PrC entirely?

If you can use an LA 0 outsider and the planar binding line, I'd recommend Malconvoker any day of the week. You can pick up a feat that lets you have another +2 HD cap on those spells from level 1, and when combined with Malconvoker you can snag Mariliths and co. from a normal planar binding spell. Even if you can't being a Malconvoker is still a reasonably good idea.

[Waker]

Malconvoker is a good class. I also like Contemplative, granting access to some domains (instead of making you track down the scrolls) and some other nice treats like disease immunity and slippery mind.

[ksbsnowowl]

Depending upon what sources are open to you...

Play a Bhuka (goblinoid race from Sandstorm) Archivist/Hexer (awesome PrC from Masters of the Wild).

IIRC, Hexer gets full BAB, d6 HD, and gets to add several Sorcerer/Wizard spells to his list over the course of 10 levels.

It is an unupdated class from a 3.0 book, however.

[Chronos]

How skilled is the DM of this game? An experienced DM can adjust adventures to compensate for the lack of a skillmonkey, but an inexperienced DM might leave in traps in a module that the party simply can't deal with without one.

If you went with a beguiler, you could cover healing via Use Magic Device, and then get a wand of Lesser Vigor and an assortment of scrolls for the status-affliction removal spells (maybe a wand for Lesser Restoration, since that one comes up pretty often).

[Giegue]

Hexer does look quite nice, if I do say so myself. The only issue is the fact it requires ranks in wilderness lore to enter, which is a skill that no longer exists in 3.5e. It could be changed to survival, but then survival is not something that an archivist can get to easily, let alone 10 ranks of it. I may stick with malconvoker for a summoner-type archivist, as that or fiendbinder was my original plan anyway. However, I still want to know what else is out there, so keep the PrCs coming.

As for the skill level of the DM, I'm not fully sure but he knows the rules well from what I've gathered. I've only talked with him online so until I actually play a game with him I can't say.

[Piggy Knowles]

Hexer does look quite nice, if I do say so myself. The only issue is the fact it requires ranks in wilderness lore to enter, which is a skill that no longer exists in 3.5e. It could be changed to survival, but then survival is not something that an archivist can get to easily, let alone 10 ranks of it. I may stick with malconvoker for a summoner-type archivist, as that or fiendbinder was my original plan anyway. However, I still want to know what else is out there, so keep the PrCs coming.

As for the skill level of the DM, I'm not fully sure but he knows the rules well from what I've gathered. I've only talked with him online so until I actually play a game with him I can't say.

Ruathar can get you the ranks you need for Hexer without much struggle.

I really like sticking with Archivist until level 11, personally - Dread Secret is just too much fun. Maybe splash in a little Sacred Exorcist and Contemplative for persisting. One of the archers I messed around with for my archer build compendium is a persistent Archivist. Persist Hunter's Eye and Divine Power, use Dread Secret to stun as a move action, then Greater Manyshot/Cloud of Knives for a lot of sneak attack damage.

[Chronos]

I don't think stun enables sneak attack.

[LordHenry]

IIRC a stunned opponent is denied his DEX bonus to AC and would thus be a valid target for SA.

[Gavinfoxx]

Archivist!

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=363718

Archivists have TONS of utility and skill-capability...

Remember, they can learn all the spells that Beguilers Know, at the very least...

[Piggy Knowles]

I don't think stun enables sneak attack.

From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned):


A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

(Emphasis mine.)

[Chronos]

OK, I guess I was thinking of one of those other status conditions.

[Piggy Knowles]

OK, I guess I was thinking of one of those other status conditions.

Daze is basically stun but without denying Dex to AC, and I sometimes get those two confused. It makes it even more confusing because Dread Secret can daze or stun as needed (and dependent on your knowledge check, of course).