Monk Fix Philosophy -- Subsystem Mash-Up!

[wayfare]

Hey All:

I've always been fond of the fighter and the monk, and I was in the middle of a long, complicated fix when an idea hit me:

If you watch some of the old shaolin movies, you often have different groups of monk types that have some shared abilities, but also several unique abilities. hat I am wondering is, would it make sense to make monk classes that blend traditional monk abilities with other subsystems. The subsystems would be included via a monk class feature called Philosophy. When you choose a philosophy, you gain several benefits at pre determined levels. Here are a few examples of what i am thinking of:

Way of the Dragon: When you use Stunning Fist, you inflict additional elemental damage. You gain access to draconic invocations.

Beshadowed Path: Your unarmed strikes gain reach based on your level. You gain access to Shadowcaster Mysteries (up to level 5).

Saint's Way: You gain the lay on hands ability and can dispel status ailments at later levels. You gain a pool of essentia and can bind soulmelds.

Does this seem like iit would be an interesting way to go?

[Eldonauran]

One could argue that those monks with different abilities either multiclass end or prestiged out of monk at some point. However, I do like idea of creating subsystems for the monk to follow.

How about one that gives the monk access to one or two cleric domains (and their powers), allowing them to cast the domain spells as if they had spellcasting capacity? Something like at X level, gains access to cast X level domain spell once per day as a spell like ability, cued off of Wisdom?

Or make a table with 0+D per day spellcasting (Table never gets 1+D, stays at 0, gain access to new spell level every even level, no orisons) with bonus spells per day based on Wisdom? In effect, their spell-list is what spells are on their chosen domains. Automatically know those spells, can spontaneously cast those spells.

You could have it replace 2nd level bonus feat and slow fall (and every instance of it increasing) at levels 4, 6, 8, etc.

[Twilightwyrm]

In before "Just use Swordsage instead"

Indeed, while the above might be a valid tactic, it doesn't quite seem like what you are trying to accomplish here.

The only potential danger I see is a potentially large power disparity between the addition of various subsystems. Some mysteries can be as powerful as spells, many soul melds are quite powerful, but you really need to know how choose your invocations to make the most of them (and that is when you have full access), and barring a few instances, will just not likely measure up to the potential of mysteries or soulmelds. There is most certainly a way to balance this, but it will require some finesse.

[Malvanis]

I think your idea is cool. I have never played a monk before and have seen they are very underpowered, much like the fighter. I am astonished of the different levels of power throughout D&D 3.5. There is the low end, like the fighter and monk, and then in the same book the most powerful classes in the game like cleric, druid and wizard. Fixing the monk won't bring it on par with these three powerful classes, but it might bring it up a little farther. You're better off playing a Swordsage.

[Waker]

Wayfare, you know the rules of this forum! Monkday is tomorrow.

The idea is workable. You would have to examine the power levels of the various philosophies against one another though, lest you end up with the "obvious" choice whenever you play a Monk. You might also consider having philosophies that expand on the Monk's skill list and other doodads. Perhaps the Hidden Hand philosophy adds Bluff and Disguise and lets them expend Stunning Fist uses for Pressure Point Strike (Sneak Attack with carrier effects).

[DMVerdandi]

Why not make the monk an invocater altogether. Take his abilities, retool them into invocations and then keep draconic invocations, possibly give beshadowed path warlock invocations, and saint's way some custom invocations, possibly using paladin spells as a guideline.

Pull in some really awesome original content.

[DMVerdandi]

Why not make the monk an invocater altogether. Take his abilities, retool them into invocations and then keep draconic invocations, possibly give beshadowed path warlock invocations, and saint's way some custom invocations, possibly using paladin spells as a guideline.

Pull in some really awesome original content.

[Phelix-Mu]

You may be interested in Xaotiq1's Fix for Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269680). Very high end, actually, and significantly more aggressive than what has been proposed here, but probably only enough to land somewhere on Tier 3, at the highest. The katas that he introduces are pretty cool, basically work like invocations, which is cool.

Though to implement the fix in the best fashion, one should invent more of the katas, since they currently number only a few more per grade than the monk gets total (meaning that all the monks are going to know mostly the same stuff). Same problem warlock had with invocation selection, but easily fixed by more homebrew on the same theme. AND it's one of the better excuses I can think of to go binge on old kung-fu movies to help with the brainstorming.:smallcool: