[PF] Unarmed Fighter and the Cestus

[DagothGares]

Okay, so I know this is a terrible idea, but my group doesn't play fully optimised and I'd really like to play someone who fights people with their fists and who would specialise in combat manoeuvers. I have the most loving and understanding DM in the world, so I think I snuck something by him (read: got him to agree to) which sounded balanced to me at first, but now I am in doubt, so I am fishing around for opinions on whether people think this is balanced.

There are specifically two house-ruled changes:
- Monks have full BAB (I took a dip in it for stunning fist and Flurry of blows)
- The Cestus scales with Monk Damage (specifically, the cestus IS monk damage, but can crit at 19-20/x2 and can be enchanted)

Admittedly, the designers think that'd be overpowered at the paizo forums. It is intended that unarmed fighters go AoMF.

Should I make it only crit at a natural 20? Or not at all?

The rest of my build centers around two fighter archetypes, if you're curious: Brawler and Cad (not 100% sure it's rule legal, but I took the 2nd fighter level in Cad and sticking to Brawler for everything else. I think it's allowed, because the two archetypes don't contradict that early on.)
Also, I apologise if I was supposed to put this in homebrew.

[Devronq]

Okay, so I know this is a terrible idea, but my group doesn't play fully optimised and I'd really like to play someone who fights people with their fists and who would specialise in combat manoeuvers. I have the most loving and understanding DM in the world, so I think I snuck something by him (read: got him to agree to) which sounded balanced to me at first, but now I am in doubt, so I am fishing around for opinions on whether people think this is balanced.

There are specifically two house-ruled changes:
- Monks have full BAB (I took a dip in it for stunning fist and Flurry of blows)
- The Cestus scales with Monk Damage (specifically, the cestus IS monk damage, but can crit at 19-20/x2 and can be enchanted)

Admittedly, the designers think that'd be overpowered at the paizo forums. It is intended that unarmed fighters go AoMF.

The monk is one of the weakest classes out there i see nothing wrong with this or any boost for the monk as your giving a leg up to someone who very much needs it. Or go unarmed swordsage much better than monk in general.

Should I make it only crit at a natural 20? Or not at all?

The rest of my build centers around two fighter archetypes, if you're curious: Brawler and Cad (not 100% sure it's rule legal, but I took the 2nd fighter level in Cad and sticking to Brawler for everything else. I think it's allowed, because the two archetypes don't contradict that early on.)
Also, I apologise if I was supposed to put this in homebrew.


The monk is one of the weakest classes out there i see nothing wrong with this or any boost for the monk as your giving a leg up to someone who very much needs it. Or go unarmed swordsage much better than monk in general.

[Slipperychicken]

Monk is one of the weakest PC classes in the game, although it appears much stronger to an inexperienced player. Unarmed combat is one of the weaker fighting styles in the game.

I think your DM's alteration to Monk is entirely reasonable, and saving money on the AoMF (standard weapon enchantments are far cheaper) leaves you room to grab other things like Boots of Levitation.

Archetypes don't work that way; if you take an archetype, you take every feature and trade in it, for every level you take in the class. You can take multiple archetypes as long as they don't trade out the same thing. For example, both Cad and Brawler trade out Armor Training 1-4 and Weapon Training 1-4 (it doesn't matter what level they trade it out), so you can't take both.

[Coidzor]

There are specifically two house-ruled changes:
- Monks have full BAB (I took a dip in it for stunning fist and Flurry of blows)
- The Cestus scales with Monk Damage (specifically, the cestus IS monk damage, but can crit at 19-20/x2 and can be enchanted)

The first is basically needed anyway and the second is fine.


Admittedly, the designers think that'd be overpowered at the paizo forums. It is intended that unarmed fighters go AoMF.

The designers are not infallible, and this is one of those cases where very few people do not think they're in error, and those people are the kind of people who actually believe that the designers can do no wrong anyway.


Should I make it only crit at a natural 20? Or not at all?

Not being able to crit at all is basically impossible and broken in the sense of not making any sense or jiving at all with the rules. This is not a road you want to go down.

Just let the weapon crit when it crits.