No Magic, Solo, Gestalt Campaign Character Help (3.5)

[Eloi]

I'm participating in a 3.5 solo campaign with no magic, psionics, magic items, or spell-like abilities. To compensate for that, I can have a Gestalt of two character classes from pretty much this selection: Barbarian, Crusader, Factotum, Fighter, Knight, Monk, Ninja, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Scout, Warblade.

I was thinking of a Warblade/Factotum gestalt, but I'm not sure if a more tank-like class such as the Crusader would be better; I was also wondering if the Rogue is better than the Factotum if magic is being factored out.

[HunterOfJello]

How are there crusaders when there's no magic? The majority of a crusader's abilities are Supernatural.

If you have to go completely mundane, then i'd suggest Rogue//Warblade with perhaps a level in Barbarian to get Pounce.

[Gavinfoxx]

Crusader//Warblade, maybe with a Factotum dip (with Able Learner) You'll need some solid healing...

Also, Paladin, Ranger, Monk, Factotum, etc. have a TON of magical abilities. Monk has more magical abilities than Swordsage, for example.

[Flickerdart]

Azurin Factotum 3//Monk 2/Anything 1 (LA maybe? Get some of those tasty +Int templates) is a pretty solid tripper (Decisive Strike + Passive Way + Knockdown + Cobalt Expertise). After that, start loading up on tasty Inspiration Points with Font of Inspiration and drop Monk for Fighter or Warblade or something (or go until level 6 if you really want the capstone of Passive Way).


Crusader//Warblade, maybe with a Factotum dip (with Able Learner) You'll need some solid healing...

Also, Paladin, Ranger, Monk, Factotum, etc. have a TON of magical abilities. Monk has more magical abilities than Swordsage, for example.
OP did not mention anything about supernatural abilities. I am assuming he simply doesn't get SLAs and so forth from classes that he takes.

[Emperor Tippy]

Gray Elf Factotum 20//Rogue 1/Cobra Strike Monk 6/Fighter 2/Warblade 11.

Take Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Kung Fu Genius, and generally lots of Font of Inspiration. Craven and Darkstalker as well of course.

You will be just about the best archer that you have ever seen and will be able to switch seamlessly to throwing down in melee combat as well as (or better than) most anything else (how would you like to throw out thirteen standard actions on your turn, which will pretty much always be first thanks to Brains over Brawn).

And the best thing is that you can effectively kite your enemies thanks to spring attack and 50 ft. movement speed plus only using standard actions to attack (and your massive Tumble bonus ensures that you never get hit by AoO's).

Oh, take the Decisive Strike ACF for the Monk (replaces Flurry) and attack with it as a full round action before burning IP for Cunning Surge and attacking as every attack you make for the rest of the round will have its damage doubled.

Also burn IP before you move to pick up a standard action or two to get you within range to make a full attack.

So you have ranged combat, melee combat, trap finding, scouting, and skill monkey covered. And best of all you are pretty much only working off of Int (the rest is nice but not necessary).

EDIT: And no, even without Arcane Dilettante the Factotum is far superior to the Rogue. A one level dip at first level for the extra skill points and to pick up the constant sneak attack is about all the rogue that you want. Oh yeah, and trade the Trapfinding for Penetrating Strike so that you can sneak attack things that are normally immune.

[Flickerdart]

Spring Attack seems kind of useless if you're already spamming Cunning Surge.

[Emperor Tippy]

Spring Attack seems kind of useless if you're already spamming Cunning Surge.

It saves you a use of one Cunning Surge, and thus 3 IP. Basically, it gets you an extra attack.

And the feats that you exchange for it generally aren't any better.

Besides, the real gem of the 6 Monk levels is the +20 ft. movement speed and the all good saves.

Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack are also prerequisites for a number of feats and PrC's that only tend to be poor choices because of the feat tax to get into them.

[Eloi]

How are there crusaders when there's no magic? The majority of a crusader's abilities are Supernatural.

All of the magical abilities are simply taken away, the rest of the class is still intact. Like, I could theoretically be a wizard, but I'd have no spells, or a familiar, so it would be kind of pointless. Not sure if Supernatural abilities constitute 'magic', but I assume they pretty much do.


If you have to go completely mundane, then i'd suggest Rogue//Warblade with perhaps a level in Barbarian to get Pounce.

So Rogue is better than Factotum for a magic-less setting then?


Crusader//Warblade, maybe with a Factotum dip (with Able Learner) You'll need some solid healing...

Also, Paladin, Ranger, Monk, Factotum, etc. have a TON of magical abilities. Monk has more magical abilities than Swordsage, for example.

The DM is just ignoring any magical or spell-like abilities, but incorporating the rest of the class. He wants the setting to be one where magic is a rare thing only done by extremely powerful, remote beings (read: not by me or most people).


Azurin Factotum 3//Monk 2/Anything 1 (LA maybe? Get some of those tasty +Int templates) is a pretty solid tripper (Decisive Strike + Passive Way + Knockdown + Cobalt Expertise). After that, start loading up on tasty Inspiration Points with Font of Inspiration and drop Monk for Fighter or Warblade or something (or go until level 6 if you really want the capstone of Passive Way).

Hmm... interesting! I don't know much about the Azurin though because I don't have the Magic of Incarnum sourcebook. Is it necessary for this build?


Gray Elf Factotum 20//Rogue 1/Cobra Strike Monk 6/Fighter 2/Warblade 11.

Take Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Kung Fu Genius, and generally lots of Font of Inspiration. Craven and Darkstalker as well of course.

You will be just about the best archer that you have ever seen and will be able to switch seamlessly to throwing down in melee combat as well as (or better than) most anything else (how would you like to throw out thirteen standard actions on your turn, which will pretty much always be first thanks to Brains over Brawn).

And the best thing is that you can effectively kite your enemies thanks to spring attack and 50 ft. movement speed plus only using standard actions to attack (and your massive Tumble bonus ensures that you never get hit by AoO's).

Oh, take the Decisive Strike ACF for the Monk (replaces Flurry) and attack with it as a full round action before burning IP for Cunning Surge and attacking as every attack you make for the rest of the round will have its damage doubled.

Also burn IP before you move to pick up a standard action or two to get you within range to make a full attack.

So you have ranged combat, melee combat, trap finding, scouting, and skill monkey covered. And best of all you are pretty much only working off of Int (the rest is nice but not necessary).

I'm confused about why I'm dipping Fighter for this build instead of just taking Warblade. Sorry if you covered that with your description, but I'm not overly familiar with the martial classes. I'm assuming it's because of their armor and weapon proficiencies?


EDIT: And no, even without Arcane Dilettante the Factotum is far superior to the Rogue. A one level dip at first level for the extra skill points and to pick up the constant sneak attack is about all the rogue that you want. Oh yeah, and trade the Trapfinding for Penetrating Strike so that you can sneak attack things that are normally immune.

Ooh, okay. So I should dip Rogue but mostly follow Factotum.

-----------

General consensus I got here is something like this-

Azurin(?) Gray Elf

Factotum 19; Rogue 1/(Cobra Strike) Monk 6/Fighter 2/Warblade 12

Feats: Decisive Strike, Passive Way, Knockdown, Cobalt Expertise, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Kung Fu Genius, Darkstalker, Craven, Font of Inspiration (the rest)

[Emperor Tippy]

So Rogue is better than Factotum for a magic-less setting then?
No, not remotely.


I'm confused about why I'm dipping Fighter for this build instead of just taking Warblade. Sorry if you covered that with your description, but I'm not overly familiar with the martial classes. I'm assuming it's because of their armor and weapon proficiencies?
Feats, the proficiencies are nice and all but its pretty much just the feats.

Fighter 2 picks you up more full AB and gives you two extra feats. Point Blank Shot + Precise Shot so that you can actually attack into melee without an issue. It's a pity that you don't have the ability to move feats around. If your DM will go for it, ask if you can switch two of the Elf bonus feats for Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, and then use the Fighter bonus feats for something else.


Ooh, okay. So I should dip Rogue but mostly follow Factotum.
Yeah, the Rogue doesn't get its first special ability until 10th level. By that point the Factotum already has Cunning Surge.


General consensus I got here is something like this-

Azurin(?) Gray Elf

Factotum 19; Rogue 1/(Cobra Strike) Monk 6/Fighter 2/Warblade 12

Feats: Decisive Strike, Passive Way, Knockdown, Cobalt Expertise, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Kung Fu Genius, Darkstalker, Craven, Font of Inspiration (the rest)
Factotum 19/Exemplar 1 (maybe move the Exemplar level up to ECL 11)//Rogue 1/Fighter 2/Cobra Strike Monk 1/Warblade 1/Cobra Strike Monk 5 (Monk 6 total)/Warblade 10.

Alternate Class Features:
Decisive Strike (PHB 2)
Cobra Strike (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike))
Penetrating Strike (use the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft version if your DM rules that you can't use Craven with the Dungeonscape version).

Feats depends a lot more on what exactly you want to do and focus on.

[Flickerdart]

Hmm... interesting! I don't know much about the Azurin though because I don't have the Magic of Incarnum sourcebook. Is it necessary for this build?

Azurins are Humans who exchange the bonus skill point for a point of Essentia. Without it, you'll need another essentia-granting feat to max out the effectiveness of Cobalt Expertise. Cobalt Expertise itself gives you a bonus to skills, attack rolls, and ability checks equal to invested essentia when you make a trip attack, disarm, or feint, and also gives you that bonus to AC when you use Combat Expertise (up to the bonus granted by Combat Expertise). Since a lot of the good stuff that keys on CE does so when you do -2, and Azurin + Cobalt Expertise lets you get 2 essentia without any extra investment, it's the best place to be. Azurin and Cobalt Expertise aren't crucial to the build, but you're getting Combat Expertise anyway, so why not make the most of it? As a solo, you'll be interested in boosting your AC, anyway, and at early levels without magic it can be a tricky proposition. +4 AC for one feat (I'm not counting Combat Expertise itself as contributing anything because you have to take the penalty, which this mitigates almost entirely) is pretty shiny when your AC is going to be 16-18 at best.

[Emperor Tippy]

+4 AC for one feat (I'm not counting Combat Expertise itself as contributing anything because you have to take the penalty, which this mitigates almost entirely) is pretty shiny when your AC is going to be 16-18 at best.
AC 20 with 20 Dex and 20 Int from Gray Elf Kung Fu Genius Monk, 19 if you drop Dex to 16 and shore up your other attributes.

[Flickerdart]

AC 20 with 20 Dex and 20 Int from Gray Elf Kung Fu Genius Monk, 19 if you drop Dex to 16 and shore up your other attributes.
In a solo game you really can't afford to min-max your ability scores like that. Sure, the first time you need to make a Diplomacy check your Factotum abilities will help you compensate. But the second? Best have a more balanced stat array.
Also, not everyone allows Dragon content, which your build relies on heavily.

[Coidzor]

No spells, no SLAs, and no magic items...

You need a source of healing, so I'd recommend a level of crusader.

[Emperor Tippy]

In a solo game you really can't afford to min-max your ability scores like that. Sure, the first time you need to make a Diplomacy check your Factotum abilities will help you compensate. But the second? Best have a more balanced stat array.
Sure you can.

Str: 12 Base, 10 after Racial mods.
Dex: 16 base, 18 after racial mods.
Con: 8 base, 6 after racial mods.
Int: 18 base, 20 after racial mods.
Wis: 8 base.
Cha: 10 base.

That is 32 PB and with FMI the only real weakness it has is with Fort saves.


Also, not everyone allows Dragon content, which your build relies on heavily.
Only for FMI. Kung Fu Genius can be replaced with Carmendine Monk.

[Eloi]

My DM vetoed Faerie Mysteries Institute but not Kung Fu Genius; Although I think I have a pretty clear idea of what I want to do with my character now. The Azurin race and the Essentia mechanic seem pretty neat, and I never knew that the Monk, Fighter, and Rogue could be so useful in a build with a Factotum/Warblade base. Thanks everyone for all of your help~