The Six Types of Players

[Mr. Zolrane]

Tuggyne, in another thread, asked that I start this topic, so I have!

While this list is not meant to encompass every person who's ever played D&D, it is based on information gleaned from several years of nigh-uninterrupted DMing. Here's my list, with some explanation. I look forward to the Playground's input. :smallsmile:

1. The Munchkin

We all know this guy, though some, perhaps, better than most. My group has been touched by this phenomenon in a profound way: the wedding of two of my players' was attended by the guy responsible for PunPun, but that's another story. At any rate, the Munchkin is the guy who finds every little snippet in the rules that can make his character hilariously broken in what can only be described as a Quickened, Twinned casting of Summon New House Rule. Most Munchkins do what they do for the perverse thrill of taking RAW into a dark cabin in a bayou somewhere and quoting from Deliverance. The Munchkin has two cousins who are similar, but not identical, being:

2. The Optimizer

The Optimizer is the player who can explain in no uncertain terms the math behind every little decision she makes. She only ever uses the gear and feats that are the absolute best for what she's trying to do and she'll probably recite a couple of Hail Marys if you're playing 3.5 and you tell her you're going Monk (Happy Monkday, everyone! :smallbiggrin:). The Optimizer is by no means disinterested in roleplaying or flavor (I've DM'd Optimizers who were the best roleplayers in the group), but she gives no fraks at all that a PF Samurai wielding a lance makes no sense; it's x2 on a charge, dammit! While some of the Optimizer's decisions make little sense from a fluff perspective she's far, far better to DM and play with than the Munchkin's other cousin:

3. The Powergamer

The Powergamer is what happens when a Munchkin or Optimizer is possessed of the inexorable notion that the game revolves entirely around him. The Powergamer is typically the player sitting there with one minmaxed-up-the-arse cookie-cutter Total Op build or another and silently waiting for combat to start. If the Powergamer RPs at all it's typically to threaten the other players er... the other players' characters to do what he wants because they know both in- and out-of-character that the Powergamer could straight up murder them if he felt like it. And woebetide the DM who runs a fight in which something doesn't go the Powergamer's way. Regardless of whether he's right or wrong in the inevitable rules dispute that ensues he will insist upon his point until the DM caves or, if the DM refuses to do so, sulk and/or walk out. The worst part about the Powergamer is that he provides fodder for:

4. The Nopetimizer

Not only does she not bother with the levels of optimization of her fellow players that make up the first half of this list, but she will often actively resent their choice to optimize, often invoking the Stormwing Fallacy to indict their alleged lack of RP prowess. Nopetimizers come in two distinct flavors namely, A) The Carefree and B) the Resentful. The first honestly doesn't mind that everyone else in the group is overshadowing her in combat and that her build would be described by her sister and brothers above as worthless. She's happy just to be with the group and has fun almost effortlessly, to a degree that the more mechanically-minded often have a hard time understanding, and while she may still roll her eyes at the guy who just had a 20-minute argument with someone who dared to go Greataxe over Falcata she's usually perfectly fine to play with. Her twin sister, however, the Resentful, is another matter. The Resentful looks down upon the Optimizer while simultaneously complaining about her own ineffectiveness despite the fact that she put no real work into her build. She will complain and roll her eyes throughout most of combat and wait for it to be over. Of course, once it IS over she'll most likely be overshadowed by:

5. The Commander Shepard

For better or for worse, the Commander Shepard is the de facto leader of the group. He places himself front and center both in combat and RP and will try to Diplomancy his way out of fights more often than not. There is no foe the Commander Shepard won't roll Diplomacy against, as he is confident in his ability to reason with the flaming zombie that is currently shambling toward him. The Commander Shepard is good for the DM because he virtually always participates in RP and, like his namesake, is often both a skilled roleplayer and combatant, but he can eventually become a drag on the other players, upstaging the quieter ones before they have a chance to speak up in RP and leading them to become:

6. The Mute

They're often the quiet friend in the group IRL and this, unfortunately carries over into the campaign. They'll typically play more passive alignments such as LN or TN, speak little if at all in RP, often only responding when NPCs address them directly (they're often ignored by other players) and clamming up once they've responded. In combat, while they're sometimes a bit more active, they'll often just utter something to the effect of "I swing my sword again," roll, resolve the attack and go back to fiddling with Facebook and whatnot until their turn rolls around again.

So, what do you guys think? Good list? Did I miss anything?

EDIT: Fixed a bunch of typos and corrected the spelling of "Commander Shepard."

[buttcyst]

not sure what to call them, but I have 2:

first is the guy that needs a new character almost every session because they always put themselves in harms way no matter what... always

second is the guy that spends more time working on their next character that they6 have no idea what is going on in game


and then there is always that guy who wants to play the CE wizard at 1st level... with 5 hit points

[ArcturusV]

Another one I'd add in:

The Reactionary:

The Reactionary, as a player, has almost no plan of their own when a game starts. This is the guy who will have some class (Often because he was told to or suggested to bring it), with no real definite plan for advancement, and often a background that amounts to "I'm a wanderer seeking my fortune". The Reactionary though thrives on taking things that happen in game in stride. They seek out hooks for their character and the story, they will bite on almost ANYTHING. They will level up more according to whatever hooks are dropped before them (Oh, the wizard will show you an arcane trick or two this level if you want to take time to study with him), and often end up as a hodgepodge character. Any random rumor, plot hook, NPC, etc, that you drop into the game they are all over. They will NEVER pass up something, even if their characters are already busy with another quest, they won't give up the chance to talk to an NPC and get another quest.

[Flickerdart]

Real powergamers know how to make builds that don't need to wait for combat to break the game. As soon as the opening credits roll, they'll try to jumplomance some minions, and use the time they spend airborne to look around for the nearest castle they can storm.

[Elric VIII]

Very nice. Reminds me of M:tG's Spike, Johnny, and Timmy (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b).

One thing you may be missing is the Johnny-esque player. I'd say that I fall under that category, so that's why I noticed the absence.


7. The Tinker

We are the players that like to merge form and function. We optimize and tinker with our builds to get every last bit of power, but always keep with the flavor and character we envision. No lance-wielding Samurai here (especially since we'd be a Warblade/Iaijutsu Master, anyway). Sure, we probably wouldn't play a Monk, but we would insist on calling our Cleric 20 with Superior Unarmed Strike or Tashalatora Ardent a "monk." To us, the Duskblade is taking the easy way out. If our gish doesn't have any levels of Wizard, we're doing it wrong. If our "ranger" doesn't consist of at least 6 different classes (with none of them actually being Ranger) that combine seamlessly to make a coherent character, we feel that it's a personal failing. In short, we get our fun out of creating unique and interesting characters, both in terms of mechanics and fluff.

[Jerthanis]

They all describe types of players and attitudes that exist, but it's terribly inexhaustive and only describes nonexclusive extremes.

I've got people who will never stop talking IC and also won't ever accept a leadership position. I've known people who don't Stormwind, taking the best options they can find, but don't care one whit if you tell them there's a more powerful option out there. A player could be described by as many as five of these traits, or as few as none of them.

[Slipperychicken]

Real powergamers know how to make builds that don't need to wait for combat to break the game. As soon as the opening credits roll, they'll try to jumplomance some minions, and use the time they spend airborne to look around for the nearest castle they can storm.

This is what distinguishes a powergamer from an optimizer.

The Optimizer makes his numbers and effects impressive through the rules. Usually occurs in character creation, and usually in combat stats. He'll make the character with the best chance to win, often "min-maxing" his character to be supremely competent in his specialty, but deficient in others, relying on his teammates to cover his weaknesses. Sometimes this player will optimize for social skills or moneymaking rather than combat, although this is relatively rare. A more skilled optimizer (as much as the term "skilled" applies to someone who rips OP builds off the internet) can leave few or no weaknesses in his character, although a mature player will deliberately hold back to challenge himself.


The Powergamer will attempt to use any permitted means to increase his characters' personal power and influence, including both RP and rules. He can often be found politicking with NPCs to gain favors, power, titles, and information. Merchant encounters involving this player result in drawn-out haggling which persists long after the dice are rolled (often to the annoyance of his fellow players). He will not stop his self-appointed quest for in-universe power until he is the supreme being, standing atop the corpses of the gods and urinating on the elder evils' broken essence, having assumed direct permanent control over everything in the omniverse. Even then, he'd probably just seek out more universes to conquer until the DM tells hims the campaign's over. Unlike the Munchkin, however, this player respects the rules and does not cheat.

[Shaynythyryas]

Many other types of players have been described by the past here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267030).

[SciChronic]

I would say that there is a subgroup in The Optimizer known as the Challenge Accepter, who will intentionally choose sub-par things (either for form, or for the pure challenge of it), and will then do their best to optimize under these less than perfect circumstances.

I would say this is what i am. I get an idea for a character then impose fluff restrictions for the sake of RP, then i see how far i can push it.

gives me an idea for another type of person, likely a subtype of the munchkin, yet the father of the Optimizer and Powergamer, making Munchkin the grandfather. I present the Artist. People who's enjoyment comes primarily from creating a character.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It seems there are several axis upon which D&D players may be judged. Just as you have the Law/Chaos axis and the Good/Evil axis, players have multiple axis upon which they may waver...

The first axis is the Optimization axis. This is the sliding scale of the technical competence of the individual in question and the drive for optimization. Mind you, what he may be optimizing about can differ from player to player, that is determined by a different axis. The point here is how much or little does he consider game mechanics when making his character.

The second axis is the Ropleplaying axis. Far from being polar opposite from the former, this is a completely independent line of thought. A person can be quite technically skilled and still be a good roleplayer. Likewise, someone can be poor at optimization and at roleplaying (just look at Ed Greenwood!). Mind you, this is not the technical ability to play an act, but a willingness or disinclination to adhere to 'stay in character' and generally adhere to the 'flavor' given by the GM. Those on the low end of this axis I will dub roll-players, due to their tendency to want to kill, or 'roll', everything.

The third axis is the Politeness axis. Basically, how much does he want the game to revolve around him? On one side, you've got the Team Player who works with the other party members. On the other is the Prima Donna who has to be center-stage no matter what.

Therefore, taking these axis into consideration, we can develop some archetypes:

Optimized/Roll-Player/Jerk will generally net you a Min-Maxer. The only thing he cares about is being the most powerful, generally in combat (although diplomancers, batman wizards, Druidzillas, and other Known Cheese can also happen here), and will proceed to ruin everyone's fun by beating every encounter trivially by himself.

Optimized/Roleplayer/Jerk will net you a Know It All. This guy has the ability to make a mechanically powerful character AND be able to make it work seamlessly in the game. And he makes sure you know it too. And he'll snidely and derisively tell you how to build your character better, whether or not you asked for, or even wanted, advice.

Deoptimized/roll-player/Jerk will net you the Munchkin. He will try to make up for the lack of optimization by flat out cheating. Or he'll crib Known Cheese or pull a CharOp/TO build straight off of the forums and try to use it in an actual game without really knowing how it actually works.

Deoptimized/Roleplayer/Jerk will generally net you a Stormwind Spewer. This is the individual who is offended that people will actually try to optimize their characters, and is fully convinced that their character with a thirty plus page backstory is FAR superior despite any technical errors. Then will complain loudly every time their character's technical deficiencies impede their ability to roleplay their character. And complain loudly when the more optimized characters steal the show because they aren't able to do much of anything.


Deoptimized/Roleplayer/Polite on the other hand, is generally the hallmark of the Storyteller. He's also got a 40 page backstory, like the Stormwind Spewer, however unlike the negative example, he's just in it for the story. He doesn't mind that he's getting 'carried' through most of the fights. He might even show up to the gaming table in costume. He will certainly have the best-painted mini, and he might well be the sort that will update his figurine to reflect his character's physical appearance and gear. He ends up having fun anyways, as long as there is not much 'table talk' to distract him.

Optimized/Roll-Player/Polite will net you a Power Gamer. He may be in it to min-max, but he's not going to rain on your parade in the process. Yes, he will likely be Tier 1 or even Tier 0 character, but he also knows that if he rains on everyone's parade, he is going to get kicked out. Expect him to provide a lot of lockdown and battlefield control in his effort to restrain his tendencies to end everything in the surprise round.

Optimized/Roleplayer/Polite will net you the Veteran. He's been around the block many times, but still enjoys seeing the Newbie learn to love the game system he has mastered. He may offer advice to other players, or ask if they would like some advice. If so, he'll generally work within their concept to try and help them do whatever it is they are trying to do a bit more efficiently. Expect him to take up the role of party Healbot/Buffbot.

Deoptimized/Roll-Player/Polite is The Newbie. He's new to the system, so he doesn't know how to optimize. He's also new to the whole 'roleplaying' thing, and might end up using MMO phrases. Unlike the Stormwind Spewer or the Min Maxer, he really does want to have a good time with everyone, and is receptive to advice from more experienced players.



With these archetypes, you can see how some interact better with other archetypes than others...

For example, having a Know It All and a Stormwind Spewer in the same gaming group will probably kill the campaign as it comes to a grinding halt because these two will be unable to resist verbally (or even physically) attacking one another. They are on polar opposite viewpoints, and they are both vocal in their viewpoint. The other is an affront to their sensibilities.

That and the Munchkin destroying the game trying to 'make it work right' are probably the two biggest dangers to a gaming group.

[nedz]

Yes there are axis of roleplay, another:

Ponderous v ACTION !
The Ponderous player loves detailed descriptions and values the minutia of character interactions, verisimilitude is king here. A session where nothing is achieved but characters/locales are developed is perfect for them.
The ACTION ! player has no patience for this kind of thing and is quite likely to interrupt this kind of "non-sense" by saying "I Charge". They will want to do stuff rather than engage in a talking shop, even if the results are disastrous. Leroy is the archetype of this type of player.

[Amnestic]

Minor nitpick: It's "Shepard", not "Shepherd" for Commander Shepard. :smalltongue:

[Piggy Knowles]

I absolutely love Shneekey's axes of personality. Well done. Couldn't help but place everyone in my current and most recent group into categories as I was reading :smalltongue:


1. The Munchkin

We all know this guy, though some, perhaps, better than most. My group has been touched by this phenomenon in a profound way: the wedding of two of my players' was attended by the guy responsible for PunPun, but that's another story.

Really? From what I recall from my days on 339, Khan was a solid optimizer but he wasn't a crazy minmaxer or munchkin. PunPun, IIRC, came about because he kept joking about how he'd made a kobold psion that could take on anything. And actually, a lot of the work on it was made by the CO community as a whole, which was so enamored by the build that people kept on finding ways to get more and more out of Manipulate Form, and earlier and earlier ways to gain access to it.

The ones who always consistently blew me away with their game knowledge back in the day were folks like LordofProcrastination, DisposableHero_ (who is still making builds I guess?) and Tleilaxu_Ghola.

[Vizzerdrix]

Worst group I was ever in. I was a 2/5 with about 5 4Bs. Got tired of being accused of being a 1, so I ended up becoming a 6 in the end.


Now that I think about it, they still have a few of my books.

[Mr. Zolrane]

not sure what to call them, but I have 2:

first is the guy that needs a new character almost every session because they always put themselves in harms way no matter what... always

second is the guy that spends more time working on their next character that they6 have no idea what is going on in game


and then there is always that guy who wants to play the CE wizard at 1st level... with 5 hit points

We already have a name for that. We call him "dead."


Another one I'd add in:

The Reactionary:

The Reactionary, as a player, has almost no plan of their own when a game starts. This is the guy who will have some class (Often because he was told to or suggested to bring it), with no real definite plan for advancement, and often a background that amounts to "I'm a wanderer seeking my fortune". The Reactionary though thrives on taking things that happen in game in stride. They seek out hooks for their character and the story, they will bite on almost ANYTHING. They will level up more according to whatever hooks are dropped before them (Oh, the wizard will show you an arcane trick or two this level if you want to take time to study with him), and often end up as a hodgepodge character. Any random rumor, plot hook, NPC, etc, that you drop into the game they are all over. They will NEVER pass up something, even if their characters are already busy with another quest, they won't give up the chance to talk to an NPC and get another quest.

That is an excellent addition. With your permission I would like to add it to OP.


I would say that there is a subgroup in The Optimizer known as the Challenge Accepter, who will intentionally choose sub-par things (either for form, or for the pure challenge of it), and will then do their best to optimize under these less than perfect circumstances.

I would say this is what i am. I get an idea for a character then impose fluff restrictions for the sake of RP, then i see how far i can push it.

gives me an idea for another type of person, likely a subtype of the munchkin, yet the father of the Optimizer and Powergamer, making Munchkin the grandfather. I present the Artist. People who's enjoyment comes primarily from creating a character.

Our group's resident Munchkin has sort of taken up this mantle of late. Ungodly absurd damage or game-breaking utility magic has just become boring for him by this point, so he's looking for different niches to break to amuse himself. He is, however, (or has been longer than not) a Fettered Munchkin, however, and would rather not ruin the game for others, hence the other reason for this choice.


Minor nitpick: It's "Shepard", not "Shepherd" for Commander Shepard. :smalltongue:

Good catch. I will fix. :smallsmile:



Really? From what I recall from my days on 339, Khan was a solid optimizer but he wasn't a crazy minmaxer or munchkin. PunPun, IIRC, came about because he kept joking about how he'd made a kobold psion that could take on anything.

I haven't met Khan myself (though I will soon have the opportunity to do so, which excites me more than it should :smalltongue:). All I know is what I've learned from my player who's been a bunch of games with him. Khan, honestly, is another Fettered Munchkin, and he will flatly REFUSE to play an artificer in 3.5 if asked. I don't recall all the details, but it involved a Skywhale and the formation of his otherwise entirely Warforged into Voltron. I will have to talk to my player again to get the full story.


Worst group I was ever in. I was a 2/5 with about 5 4Bs. Got tired of being accused of being a 1, so I ended up becoming a 6 in the end.


Now that I think about it, they still have a few of my books.

Bummer. I used to be in a similar situation except I was one of the 4Bs, which is why I understand the Resentful Nopetimizer/Stormwind Spewer mentality so well; I used to BE a 4B; now I'm more of a 2/5. My group are also no longer like that as well; we've grown a lot as players since those early days.

[Piggy Knowles]

I haven't met Khan myself (though I will soon have the opportunity to do so, which excites me more than it should :smalltongue:). All I know is what I've learned from my player who's been a bunch of games with him. Khan, honestly, is another Fettered Munchkin, and he will flatly REFUSE to play an artificer in 3.5 if asked. I don't recall all the details, but it involved a Skywhale and the formation of his otherwise entirely Warforged into Voltron. I will have to talk to my player again to get the full story.

Interesting. Again this was mostly just my impression from my time on the old boards - he was definitely a prominent figure in the CO community but not necessarily a crazy optimizer. I don't know of anyone who actually played a game with him.

It's always interesting to hear about the old school optimizers in actual games. (On the WotC boards sometimes there is talk of a group that currently made up of Tempest Stormwind, RadicalTaoist, DisposableHero_ and a few others, including builds that they are all playing, party tactics, etc. It's fascinating to read about.)

[navar100]

Real Men - Kill the bad guys, save the princess, drink at the tavern
Favorite Words: "Charge!"

Real Roleplayers - Political intrigue, personal drama, roll dice as little as possible
Favorite Words: "Thank you, your majesty, for agreeing to speak with us."

Real Loons - Make jokes, quote Monty Python, commit random acts of chaos, there's a game happening?
Favorite Words: "I attack the darkness."

Real Munchkins - Kill first ask questions never, take stuff, roll lots of dice and build up plusses
Favorite Words: "I loot the bodies."

Real Jerks - Me first you never, other players are just their audience and victims, superior to everyone
Favorite Words: "I told you so."

Real Lawyers - Has every book, uses every book, you must follow the books except where specifically changed by house rules, house rules have their own book
Favorite Words: "You can't do that."