Looking for a spell somewhere between Charm and Dominate

[OzymandiasX]

I'm running a game with a very powerful NPC who I want to have some sort of influence over another not-as-powerful NPC. Essentially I want NPC-A to force (through magic) NPC-B to not oppose the actions of NPC-A.


Dominate Person could work, but it is complete overkill. NPC-A doesn't want to issue commands, doesn't need to know what B is experiencing, plus Dominate is much less subtle. Carrying out ONLY the commands and essential life functions is too obvious, as the party works with NPC-B closely.
The effect of Charm Person is closer to what I'd want, but the duration is way too short, as I'd need something that lasted days or weeks at a time. Also Charm (being low level) has a much lower saving throw.


I'm not familiar with all of the 3.5 spells from all the tons of books out there, but figure there has to be a spell out there that can serve my needs. I could always have the NPC have a customized spell, but I try to not throw that at my players when I can avoid it.

Anyone know a spell that may fit?

[Malvanis]

Charm Monster has a duration of 1 day/ level. If he extended it he could have 2 days/ level. That way he would not be dominated, and you could charm him with longer duration. If he pays a 20th level caster 2500 gold he can have NPC B charmed for 40 days!

[OzymandiasX]

Extended Charm Monster is perfect! I forgot that the Monster version had a greater duration. Thanks!

[Nettlekid]

Alternatively, if your Bigger Bad has access to high-level spells, what I suggest is to use Programmed Amnesia (or a less effective lower level solution, many applications of Modify Memory) to implant in the Little Bad memories of being allies with the Bigger Bad. If you have the Bigger Bad pretend to save the Little Bad's life or something, Little Bad should be grateful and do whatever the Bigger Bad says. Throw on an Infallible Servant from Exemplars of Evil to ensure the Little Bad doesn't give you away.

[Urpriest]

If you just want to force the guy to do something specific, I recommend one of the Geas line of spells, or Mark of Justice or the like.

[Venger]

suggestion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm) is an intermediary step between charm and dominate.

You may also consider having your NPC have lots of ranks in the bluff and/or diplomacy skill.

Depending on your party's optimization level, a warlock with beguiling influence, charm, walk unseen, and devil's whispers may fit the bill. warlocks are not vey powerful, so even though he'd be a high CR encounter, he'd be punching far below his weight.

here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455) is a great warlock handbook to give you basics (since he's just an NPC, it should prove sufficient, especially if the party's not supposed to fight him soon.)

[TuggyNE]

Technically, psionic charm can get you day/level duration a couple levels earlier if you have access to a manifester.

[Malvanis]

Extended Charm Monster is perfect! I forgot that the Monster version had a greater duration. Thanks!


You are very welcome

[Jack_Simth]

I'm running a game with a very powerful NPC who I want to have some sort of influence over another not-as-powerful NPC. Essentially I want NPC-A to force (through magic) NPC-B to not oppose the actions of NPC-A.


Dominate Person could work, but it is complete overkill. NPC-A doesn't want to issue commands, doesn't need to know what B is experiencing, plus Dominate is much less subtle. Carrying out ONLY the commands and essential life functions is too obvious, as the party works with NPC-B closely.
The effect of Charm Person is closer to what I'd want, but the duration is way too short, as I'd need something that lasted days or weeks at a time. Also Charm (being low level) has a much lower saving throw.


I'm not familiar with all of the 3.5 spells from all the tons of books out there, but figure there has to be a spell out there that can serve my needs. I could always have the NPC have a customized spell, but I try to not throw that at my players when I can avoid it.

Anyone know a spell that may fit?
If I could make a Suggestion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm)?

[TuggyNE]

If I could make a Suggestion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm)?

You were ninja'd by five hours. :smalltongue:

[Emperor Tippy]

Dominate Person could work, but it is complete overkill. NPC-A doesn't want to issue commands, doesn't need to know what B is experiencing, plus Dominate is much less subtle. Carrying out ONLY the commands and essential life functions is too obvious, as the party works with NPC-B closely.

"I order you to act completely normal except in so far as not revealing by omission or commission that you are Dominated and not opposing X actions. You are to develop logical and reasonable reasons for why you aren't opposing said actions based on your past history, personality, and activities and spread such information as is appropriate."

Suggestion works just fine as others have said though.

[OzymandiasX]

"I order you to act completely normal except in so far as not revealing by omission or commission that you are Dominated and not opposing X actions. You are to develop logical and reasonable reasons for why you aren't opposing said actions based on your past history, personality, and activities and spread such information as is appropriate."All fine and good except that even with a cleverly crafted command set, the Sense Motive DC is still reduced to 15 (instead of 25) for observers to figure out that there is some sort of mind-influencing effect.

And the duration of Suggestion, even extended is too short for my needs.

I like the Charm Monster option or the Programmed Amnesia option. I think I'll use one of these.

And NPC-B isn't 'little bad'... he is actually an ally of the party. which is why big-bad can really make use of influencing him.

Thanks again, folks!

[Kazuel]

"I order you to act completely normal except in so far as not revealing by omission or commission that you are Dominated and not opposing X actions. You are to develop logical and reasonable reasons for why you aren't opposing said actions based on your past history, personality, and activities and spread such information as is appropriate."

Suggestion works just fine as others have said though.

I'm a little disappointed that your answer didn't somehow include an Ice Assassin.

[Venger]

I'm a little disappointed that your answer didn't somehow include an Ice Assassin.

Plan B is, if the target does not behave in the desired fashion, to replace him with an ice assassin.

[TuggyNE]

I'm a little disappointed that your answer didn't somehow include an Ice Assassin.

Tippy doesn't care about the Sense Motive rolls, because secretly he's replaced everyone else with Ice Assassins of themselves.

"Let's see if he notices."

[Telonius]

Blackmail and Kidnap Loved One come to mind. They're (Ex) abilities that come standard as part of the Villain template. Duration: as long as the plot requires. :smallbiggrin:

[Jeff the Green]

All fine and good except that even with a cleverly crafted command set, the Sense Motive DC is still reduced to 15 (instead of 25) for observers to figure out that there is some sort of mind-influencing effect.

I'm pretty sure there's a feat for that...

Ah. Found it. Puppet Master from Dragon Compendium adds +5 to the DC. Not quite as good as charm x, but handy.