Glorious Master of the Elements, Persistable?

[Blackhawk748]

Its exactly what it sounds like, is there some way to shenanigan a Persist onto Glorious Master of the Elements?

[Mithril Leaf]

Not even hard. Arcane thesis and a few +0 Metamagic. Incantatrix with a nice +30 competence spellcraft item. You know, standard wizard metamagic stuff.

EDIT: Hell, an Archivist with a dip to Sacred Exorcist that goes into Hexer can do it too.

[Vaz]

Incantatrix 3, ramp spellcraft optimizing through the roof.

If your DM is nuts enough to allow free Persist Shenanigans, then see if you can get Wands of Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight to help make the check.

[Blackhawk748]

i should have said, pre epic as i know its pretty easy to do that past lvl 20

[TaiLiu]

i should have said, pre epic as i know its pretty easy to do that past lvl 20
The above methods are pre-epic.

[eggynack]

i should have said, pre epic as i know its pretty easy to do that past lvl 20
All of the given examples are pre-epic. Incantrix is a perfectly fine pre-epic method of persisting just about anything. Arcane thesis is a bit less versatile, but it's workable.

[Blackhawk748]

then why do i need the crazy spellcraft boost?

[eggynack]

then why do i need the crazy spellcraft boost?
The metamagic boost is how metamagic effect works. You don't need to be epic leveled to get a massive spellcraft check though.

Edit: Specifically, you need a spellcraft check of DC 18+3*modified spell level. Glorious master of the elements is 7th level, so persisted it's 13th level. That's a DC of 57. Tricky, but doable, especially when you're a wizard with access to 7th level spells.

[Mithril Leaf]

i should have said, pre epic as i know its pretty easy to do that past lvl 20

Everything mentioned can be done by level 15.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You're not familiar with incantatrix, huh?

One of that PrC's class features is that it allows you to apply metamagics to a spell after casting it by making a spellcraft check. The check is pretty high for adding persist to even a mid-level spell, but optimizing skill checks is trivial.

A single casting of guidance of the avatar gives you a one time +20 on any skill check of your choice. Cast it from a staff or scroll via UMD (if you have it) or simply cast it if its on your list (there are a number of ways to import it to your list if it's not there natively.)

edit: ninjas everywhere.

[Blackhawk748]

ah ok, i was a bit confused

[Vaz]

Bear in mind that as an Incantatrix, you'll typically be a Full Caster with a Int stat around 36, for a +13 bonus to Int checks. With 23 ranks, that's a +36 to spellcraft, and a +20 from Guidance of the Avatar means that you can make DC56 checks, which IIRC, is all you'd ever need pre-epic.

[Cruiser1]

You don't need to be epic leveled to get a massive spellcraft check though.
Indeed, certain builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263905) make use of Extended Persistent Maximized Glorious Master of the Elements for infinite free 60 damage nuking. :smallsmile: That's a DC 69 Spellcraft check, made with a +47 buffed Spellcraft combined with casting Divine Insight for +15, and taking 10.

[Harrow]

(Cloistered) Cleric 1 / Wizard 2 / Geomancer 10 / +Wizard 1

You use Metamagic School Focus, Heighten Spell, and the one of your Cleric domains for the Knowledge domain to be able to be able to qualify for Geomancer after level 3. You use your Geomancer levels to advance Wizard casting. Geomancer also lets you treat arcane spells as divine, so you can use Divine Metamagic on your Wizard spells. You need Wizard casting of 13th level to get access to the spell, so you need an extra Wizard level (or just a prestige class that advances arcane casting at first level), but once your have have that you're golden.

Downsides : Feat intensive, requires early prestige class qualification (although that's the only reason anyone would ever use Geomancer), lose a caster level at first

Upsides : Build fully playable from level 7, GMotE Persisted at level 14, get a Cleric domain (or two) to play around with, technically can ignore Arcane Spell Failure (but that doesn't really matter)

[Mithril Leaf]

(Cloistered) Cleric 1 / Wizard 2 / Geomancer 10 / +Wizard 1

You use Metamagic School Focus, Heighten Spell, and the one of your Cleric domains for the Knowledge domain to be able to be able to qualify for Geomancer after level 3. You use your Geomancer levels to advance Wizard casting. Geomancer also lets you treat arcane spells as divine, so you can use Divine Metamagic on your Wizard spells. You need Wizard casting of 13th level to get access to the spell, so you need an extra Wizard level (or just a prestige class that advances arcane casting at first level), but once your have have that you're golden.

Downsides : Feat intensive, requires early prestige class qualification (although that's the only reason anyone would ever use Geomancer), lose a caster level at first

Upsides : Build fully playable from level 7, GMotE Persisted at level 14, get a Cleric domain (or two) to play around with, technically can ignore Arcane Spell Failure (but that doesn't really matter)

Incidentally, that's the perfect setup for entering Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. Well, being level 13 and needing something to go into besides wizard at least.

[Blackhawk748]

ok im really confused, because i just read all the rules for the Incantatrix and i didnt see anything about applying Metamagic effects after casting with a spellcraft check. btw the one i was looking at is from Magic of Faerun

[Spuddles]

That's the 3.0 one. You want the 3.5 one in PGtF.

[Blackhawk748]

ok ive got the new one, and damn thats awesome

[eggynack]

ok ive got the new one, and damn thats awesome
Indeed so. It's one of the most powerful prestige classes in the game, primarily due to the metamagic effect ability. The class would still be incredibly powerful without it, but the free application of persist a crazy number of times per day is really the glowing jewel in the incantrix crown. Basically, metamagic with mitigated cost is one of the biggest things in D&D optimization, and the incantrix does it better than just about everything.

[Vaz]

Combine with a Wu Jen (or just use a Wizard) Archmage for Body Outside Body/Wish abuse. Start each day with near enough every spell in the game (normally persistable or not) persisted on you at the expense of a single 7th (or 9th in the case of a wizard) level spell slot.