New player needs tips for druid.

[ObsidianIV]

I just recently started playing and so far i got a fighter to lvl3 before we started a new campaign because of players leaving and new ones joining.

So right now I am a lvl 3 elf druid.

I am looking into going for summoning and spellcasting but the couple of guides I have seen have mentioned going for shapeshifting as well and just using all 3 areas.

Is there a way I can still be efficient using just summoning and spellcasting.

We are playing 3/3.5 core

Thank you for any help

[Lightlawbliss]

first off: make sure u get natural spell

if you are focused on summoning (optimizers tend to not love the "summon x" spells) augment summoning might be a good feat (If allowed, i'm away from books so can't check what book it's in).

simply put, druid is a hard class to mess up.

[hymer]

1: Take all your levels in druid. Don't multiclass.
2: Take the feat Natural Spell at level 6 (Augment Summoning can be taken at third level if you got the prerequisite at level 1).
3: Spend time looking up your spells so you know what they do (and which to choose, the hard part of being a prepared caster).
4: Have stats ready for your summons.

Finally, even if you focus all out on, say, summoning, you can still beat people up in animal shape (when you get shapeshifting), you still have your animal companion (make sure it's up to date), and since your summoning spells are spontaneous, you can still do battlefield control, buffing, etc.

[Humble Master]

Natural Spell is so good it is a must have.
Get Animal Companions with the Trip or Pounce ability (Wolf, Dire Wolf, Dire Tiger)
Having the stats of your summons ready will make your DM like you.
Some good Wild Shapes are Dire Wolf, Apes, Bears, Dire Tiger.

[Asteron]

I don't know why you would want to ignore Wild Shape, but you have a few levels before it comes online. It will help immensely.

The druid's spellcasting is very versatile. You can do almost anything with it. Blasting? Yep, although it's not your best option. Battlefield Control? Lots of it. Buffing? Great at this too. Debuffing? Sure. With some foresight on your part, you can have a great selection of spells to deal with almost any situation.

Summoning is an extension of spellcasting as you get to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally. Take Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augmented Summoning to make your summons even better. Both are in the PHB.

Don't forget your Animal Companion as this can be a powerful tool in its own right, especially at lower levels.

If you haven't already, go here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940) for more answers.

[ObsidianIV]

thank you for all the tips guys

asteron: i did not want to completely ignore it i just wanted to focus more on the summoning and spell casting parts. and i have seen that guild thank you

also would it be better to not prepare my summoning spells since i can spontaneously cast them?

[Lightlawbliss]

...
also would it be better to not prepare my summoning spells since i can spontaneously cast them?

not unless you want to metamagic it.

[Norin]

also would it be better to not prepare my summoning spells since i can spontaneously cast them?

Yes, correct.


(Except if you want to add some metamagic to the summoning, and want to use feats instead of rods for the effect.

Then you need to prepare the metamagiced summoning.)

Edit: keeping tabs open ftl. I got slow-swordsage'd. :smallconfused:

[Asteron]

The thing about Wild Shape is that it doesn't require much focus. One feat at 6th level and you are physically much more powerful per day than you were before. You don't have to worry about getting caught in melee as much.

I wouldn't prepare any SNA spells, even to metamagic them. The only ones I would think to use on those spells is Extend Spell and Quicken, but you can just get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell for the former and just deal with the casting time on the latter. Others may have more insight than me, however.

[eggynack]

All you really need to add perfect wild shape optimization to a druid is natural spell. It's basically a free statistical upgrade at any level above 5th, and lets you fly around while you summon things (just make sure that you pick a creature with good maneuverability, so that you get free hover). I think that summoning really picks up at level five, when you get dire wolves. but augment summoning is still about as good as it gets. Seriously, there just aren't all that many feats to choose from in core. There's no real way to advance your ability to summon after 3rd level, so you're not really advancing things much by being hyper-focused. Anyways, at SNA II, you're going to want hippogriffs. They're highly combat capable, and flight gives them versatility. Still, you lose nothing but time if you make up sheets for every summon that looks cool. As an animal companion, you're going to want a riding dog. They've got a high AC, a reasonable offense, and free tripping. Pick it up some studded leather barding, and you're golden.

The thing about druids, especially in core, is that you don't really build a druid that can only spell cast and summon. All of their class abilities come nearly free of charge, so you lose almost nothing by using all of them. You don't have to pour all of your feats and resources into wild shape; you just need to pick up natural spell. It's an ability with such a high level of versatility and power, that it'd be crazy not to make use of it.

Spell casting also doesn't really require optimization. Just, y'know, prepare good spells. At zeroth level, I like detect magic, cure minor wounds, and create water. I don't see the second one tossed around enough, but if you need to stabilize an ally, you're not going to care much about the action cost. At first level spell, entangle is amazing, and produce flame and obscuring mist are pretty good. Prepare a bunch of the first, and then do whatever strikes your fancy. I've heard good things about longstrider, and faerie fire is good when you need that sort of effect. Now, for second level spells, I've honestly never found anything that I love in core. Fog cloud is nice, because fog is always nice, but you're mostly getting buff spells with a duration that's too short to really be usable. Even more than for first level spells, just pick what looks cool. You can even pick stuff that seems situational, under the assumption that you can spontaneously convert the spells that don't fit into hippogriffs.

So, y'know, that's about it. Druids are incredibly powerful, far more so than a fighter. Hell, at level three, your riding dog alone is roughly comparable to a fighter. In answer to your recent question, you should always spontaneously convert. I don't see much reason that you wouldn't.

[Chronos]

Optimizing a summoning druid mostly just consists in knowing which animals (or other critters, but they're mostly animals) are good for which tasks. Some are general-purpose damage dealers, some are good for locking down one particular opponent, some don't do much but are effectively brick walls, etc. Look over the list, and get familiar with them.

[geekintheground]

if you want to focus on summoning, i strongly suggest greenbound summoning. it gives everything you summon the greenbound template which is VERY good (either borderline or straight out broken) and can be taken at level 1. make SURE to ask your DM 1st

[buttcyst]

Druids are a lot of fun, I never wild shaped with my first and just focused on summoning and threw around spells. I had no idea the true power of druid until I started to read all of my spell descriptions, then it became a guessing game vs the DMs encounters as to which spells I should pick. although if I were to try again, I would add in the extra bit of wildshaping to go airborne as well as casting awaken on a few things for the heck of it

[Spuddles]

not unless you want to metamagic it.


Yes, correct.


(Except if you want to add some metamagic to the summoning, and want to use feats instead of rods for the effect.

Then you need to prepare the metamagiced summoning.)

Edit: keeping tabs open ftl. I got slow-swordsage'd. :smallconfused:

To expound on why it might be a good idea to prep your metamagic'd summons:
It takes a full round action to summon a pet. If you are doing that spontaneously and want to add a metamagic feat, it will take another full round action.


if you want to focus on summoning, i strongly suggest greenbound summoning. it gives everything you summon the greenbound template which is VERY good (either borderline or straight out broken) and can be taken at level 1. make SURE to ask your DM 1st

Greenbound is an awesome feat, but unfortunately OP is in Core only.

[buttcyst]

on the metamagic bit, I'm not sure, but if you prepare another spell metamagic, you can expend both for a metamagic SNA, I had a DM allow this, the druid in my current game doesn't do metamagic and they are also a summoner/caster, onlytime they wild shaped so far was to turn into a dinosaur just to be silly (and to scare the monk). even if it doesn't work that way, druids have minimal use for metamagic beyond widen, highten, extend. the others do make your spells more powerful but really they are powerful enough and most already get more powerful /caster level anyways, about the most useful metamagic feat is highten because it keeps your lower level spells DC high enough to use.

[Andezzar]

Rapid Spell is also very interesting for summoners. Normally SNA has a casting time of one Round, meaning you can be interrupted the whole round and the ally only arrives in the round after you started casting. Rapid Spell spell makes the casting time a standard action.

[Darrin]

Rapid Spell is also very interesting for summoners. Normally SNA has a casting time of one Round, meaning you can be interrupted the whole round and the ally only arrives in the round after you started casting. Rapid Spell spell makes the casting time a standard action.

Buy some Golden Desert Honey (Complete Mage), and you can do this without spending a feat. Not cheap, though... 300 GP per dose.

See link in .sig for advice on Druidzilla Spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12183941#post12183941).

[Norin]

Now, for second level spells, I've honestly never found anything that I love in core. Fog cloud is nice, because fog is always nice, but you're mostly getting buff spells with a duration that's too short to really be usable. Even more than for first level spells, just pick what looks cool. You can even pick stuff that seems situational, under the assumption that you can spontaneously convert the spells that don't fit into hippogriffs.

2nd level core spells that i find nice to have around:

-Barkskin: Nat armour boost is always nice.
-Burning sphere: For some tactical use and a bit of damage.
-Heat\chill metal: Too funny to skip if you fight armoured people\monsters.
-Resist Energy: Sweet as candy when you meet something that focuses on a damage type.
-Restoration, Lesser: You know you would cry if you got into something and didn't have this one.
-Soften Earth and Stone: Use your imagination, and this one is quite versatile.
-Summon Swarm: Nice to annoy caster with.

Outside core, there are a whole lot of gems on the 2nd lvl druid list. :smallbiggrin:

[eggynack]

Outside core, there are a whole lot of gems on the 2nd lvl druid list. :smallbiggrin:
Oh god yes, this is very true. There's just a ridiculous level of difference in the quality of core and non-core 2nd level druid spells. 2nd level is where you get gems like blinding spittle, luminous armor, and kelpstrand. It's just a great spell level overall. Your core list is nice, but it's just no comparison. The fact that other druid spell levels are roughly comparable in and out of core just makes it an odd thing.

[Daftendirekt]

1: Take all your levels in druid. Don't multiclass.


Unless you take Planar Shepherd.