Metamorphosis Into Choker?

[Oontarg]

The other day i was reviewing the good old Expanded Psionics Handbook. I was reading feats and a feat caught my eye. Metamorphic Transfer. After reading the feat I slowly withdrew my trusty Monster Manual and flipped to...

Choker...

So why Metamorphosis into one of "These vicious little predators..."? Sure they have respectable physical abilities, 16S 14D 13C (respectable, not Godly), a climb speed 10ft, small size, 2 tentacles attacks, improved grab, and constrict. This in itself is not why I turned to Choker. The reason I flipped right to Choker is because of Quickness(Su).

Quickness (Su): although not particularly dexterous, a choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn.

Metamorphic Transfer gives you three uses per day of a supernatural ability in the form that you a currently in, That means that with this feat someone who manifested Metamorphosis to a choker on themselves can take an extra standard or move action once per round, three times per day.

Do you think that this is worth one feat (available at the 9 level) to get an extra standard or move action in one round... as long as you a Choker.

The best way I have thought of to use the extra standard/move action is with the following feats/powers.
Travel Devotion feat,
Psionic Meditation feat
Quicken Power feat
Synchronicity power
Schism power

With these feats and powers in one round, you have two move actions, two standard actions, one readied action, one standard action (only a mental action). The the things a full level caster/manifester can do with so many actions.

If you had that this many actions as a full level caster/manifester what spells/powers would use? Would you bast your foes to pieces, then blow the pieces to bits. Or maybe charm your foes, and if your charm doesn't work you can always do it again, and again, and again (all in one round). As long as you remember you are a Choker...

DM's what would you do if you encountered a player with this many actions. Being a player, what would you do if your party had a Choker... who could do all that.

If this is shenanigans then its shenanigans.

[supervillan]

I am inclined to say shenanigans :smalltongue:

But if your party is at all optimised perhaps its not too much, especially if your DM rules that each round you make use of the Choker's supernatural Quickness ability counts as one of your 3/day metamorphic transfers.

The shapechange spell, by comparison, can let the caster use the choker form with Quickness for the full duration, allowing two "standard action" castings per round plus possibly a quickened casting as well.

As for how I'd handle a PC walking round in Choker form - depends on the setting, but you are not going shopping around town looking like that! Not likely that any PC wearing that particular shape is going to be keeping it on when at the local tavern though. To be frank I probably wouldn't allow metamorphic transfer or the counterpart feat assume supernatural ability, because they both allow too much cheese at too low a level. I've no difficulty with a very high level caster using shapechange in this way, as long as they are familiar with the Choker form. Shapechange does require that the caster be familiar with the form they wish to take - that means having encountered it in your adventures or, if your DM wishes, an appropriate knowledge check result to give sufficient detail.

[A_S]

I'd rather be an Elan, use Alter Self on a Wizard, and take Assume Supernatural Ability at level 3. Online 6 levels earlier, no 3/day restriction. But yes, it should work.

*edit* As for shenanigans, it's not rules ambiguous, but it's one more in the long laundry list of reasons why it's a bad idea to let players assume the abilities of monsters without heavily restricting how they can do so. This is why Polymorph and its derivatives are so broken.

[Oontarg]

A_S thank you fore the advice but with Assume Supernatural Ability feat you have to take a will save (19) if in combat. With Metamorphic Transfer feat and Assume Supernatural Ability do I get two uses of Quicken(SU) in a round? Just manifest Metamorphosis to become a Choker then cast Alter Self to change the Chokers appearance (to something even more Chokerish). Metamorphic Transfer turns your (SU) ability into a daily use (SU) ability, witch is different than the (SU) ability granted from Assume Supernatural Ability. So do they stack?

[Deadline]

DM's what would you do if you encountered a player with this many actions. Being a player, what would you do if your party had a Choker... who could do all that.

If this is shenanigans then its shenanigans.

You are missing the Psionic Power Fission, I think.

[Piggy Knowles]

Yeah, choker abuse is fairly well known. As A_S mentioned it's nice but not as insane as you'd think, because of the 3/day restriction. I'm certainly not going to turn down three extra standard actions per day, but you're basically looking at something that will come up less frequently than, say, Cunning Surge on a factotum. And since you have to spend an action to use metamorphosis and become a choker in the first place, it gets... less crazy than you'd think.

Assume Supernatural Ability is absolutely the better option, even with the required save, because getting an extra standard action three times a day is cool, but getting it for the duration of your spell is crazy bananas. (Also, since it works with any shapechanging effect and doesn't have the ML pre-requisite that Metamorphic Transfer has, you can pull it off WAY earlier via alter self).

My personal favorite uses of Metamorphic Transfer mostly involve the hoary steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hoaryHunter.htm#hoarySteed). Astral projection and etherealness, or constant use versions of magic circle or obscuring mist or air walk.

[Flickerdart]

Factotums get Cunning Surge at level 8 and have extra standard actions all day erry day.

[Xervous]

Also, why shapechange into choker when there's chronotyryn? Don't just get another standard action, get another TURN!

[Grod_The_Giant]

A feat for 3 extra standard actions a day? On a primary caster/manifester? Sounds worth it to me! Not game-shatteringly good, but certainly worth it.

[Harrow]

IIRC, the Choker had its Quickness trait stealth-errata'd out in later printings of the Monster Manual, so it's up to the DM as to whether it has it or not.

[Emperor Tippy]

IIRC, the Choker had its Quickness trait stealth-errata'd out in later printings of the Monster Manual, so it's up to the DM as to whether it has it or not.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm

It's in the official SRD as well.

[Psyren]

PF nerfed the Choker's Quickness to a move action, not that it matters since Metamorphic Transfer was dropped by DSP due to the polymorph changes.

[TuggyNE]

PF nerfed the Choker's Quickness to a move action, not that it matters since Metamorphic Transfer was dropped by DSP due to the polymorph changes.

That should go into the PPP thread! A positive change on the whole.

[Vaz]

The 3/day ability is quite badly worded. It doesn't allow for "always on abilities".

For the choker, it's easy enough, each use of the additional action counts against the limit, but what about those abilities such as for the Visilight (my favourite use of Metamorphic Transfer).

Here is the Metamorphic Transfer tricks (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867198/Metamorphic_Transfer_Tricks) threads writer opinion.


Case 1: Abilities of this case are specified in the rules in terms of quantized usages. Example: breath weapon. Clearly these abilities may only be used a total of 4 times per day.

Case 2: Abilities of this case are specified as continual with a finite or infinite duration per activation. Example: true seeing. These abilities count as one transfer per activation.

Case 3: Abilities of this case are outside the box of the other two cases. They are quantized effects, yet the creature is able to benefit from them every round without requiring any actions. I am of the opinion that unless an action is required to use the ability that it does not constitute a use of the transfer beyond acquiring the ability. Example: choker's quickness. This is the controversial case and as such I will avoid most of these abilities like the plague.