Building an ardent with a dash of swordsage

[johnnyripper]

Hello all, I am preparing an Ardent/swordsage for an up and coming campaign (possibly a one-off). I was just a wizard playing God, but now I am looking for a more blaster/striker build. It is starting at level 10, any books are allowed, dragon magazine is allowed (but first needs to be authorized), ACF for ardent are ok, and homebrew is allowed (needs to be sufficiently critiqued by community and must be authorized). I have a basic idea, however, I would like some tips on when to go with swordsage levels, maybe some power selection ideas. We are generally pretty close to Pathfinder WBL and Adaptive Style has been approved for selection outside of 1st level. This is not a highly optimized group, and is more about having fun. We have a gentleman's agreement to avoid polymorph (and therefore metamorphosis).

Important fact: I have been authorized to use the Sleeping Goddess homebrew by The Demented One. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5408276

I specifically wanted this for Battle Mantra stance and Becoming the Perfect Warrior (a fourth level boost).

My current idea for the build
Human
32 point buy
Str: 14
Dex:12
Con:14
Int: 14
Wis: 16 (Putting both stat boost here)
Cha: 8

Ardent 1 Mantles: Energy, Freedom. Feats: Practiced Manifester, Hidden Talent (Astral Construct)
Ardent 2 Mantle: Time
Ardent 3 Feat: Burrowing Power
Ardent 5 Mantle: Knowledge
Ardent 4
Ardent 6 Feat: Adaptive Style
Swordsage 1 Unarmed Variant
Swordsage 2
Ardent 7 Feat: Empower Power (heavily considering Snap kick to possibly gain more from Battle Mantra, but I worry about the -2 to hit)
Ardent 8

Powers I will be getting: Astral Construct, Dimension Hop, Energy Missile (probably will be my go to damage power and using it with Burrowing Power), Energy Wall, Clairvoyant Sense

Maneuvers: Mighty Throw (to setup for other Setting Sun throws later), Sudden Leap, Burning Blade, Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt (save some PP for out of combat use), Mind Revealed in Battle

The idea I want to go for is, softening up the enemies with an energy missile (with burrowing power and Clairvoyant sense to negate cover), possibly summon an astral construct if the numbers look really unbalanced and then move in to hit some people and regain some PP. The party is not yet set, but we will likely have some type of Tank that I can use as meatshield/distraction to avoid getting too much attention in combat myself.

[johnnyripper]

I will bump this once after 24 hours and then let it sink into the netherverse of the forum

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'd almost be tempted to go straight Ardent and nab the Dominant Ideal ACF at 10th level before heading into Swordsage.

Yes, it's that good.

[Keld Denar]

Ardent/Swordsage and homebrew is ok?

Have you seen Eldariel's Ephemeral Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107034)? You have the Freedom mantle for Dimension Hop which triggers a lot of the cool EB abilities, including the Tele-strike. You can swift action blink, get a free strike, then full attack. Or use Shadow Hand teleports to trigger multiple strikes/round in a similar fashion to a standard telepouncer.

[johnnyripper]

Dominant Ideal is amazing, and if I thought I would get another level in this campaign, I would certainly push the swordsage around to get it as soon as I could.

And that prestiege class is certainly tempting... particularly because it really lends itself to the striker. But I would then definitely lose out on dominate ideal...

[Keld Denar]

Yea, but that depends on what you want to do with Dominant Ideal. I see you have the Energy mantle which is a blasty mantle. Blasting really lends itself to Dominant Ideal. You also have Freedom and Time. Freedom is VERY gishy, and Time isn't too shabby for utility. If you want to go more gishy, I'd drop Energy and go with something like Conflict or Magic. Magic is nice because you get "Magic Weapon", along with it's Greater cousin in one power, and you can use Ephemeral Blade to channel Dispel Psionics or Time Hop from the Time domain. I've played an EB before, and it's really fun with a +1 Keen Mindfeeder falcheon. You'll have a constant stream of a few bonus PP that you can focus into popping around the battlefield with Dim Hop providing flanks and chasing shifty foes. Link Power is another fun feat, since you can link Dim Hop to Vigor to allow you to refresh your Vigor nearly every round as long as you can regain your focus (which EB gives you).

[shadow_archmagi]

Hello all, I am preparing an Ardent/swordsage for an up and coming campaign (possibly a one-off). I was just a wizard playing God, but now I am looking for a more blaster/striker build. It is starting at level 10, any books are allowed, dragon magazine is allowed (but first needs to be authorized), ACF for ardent are ok, and homebrew is allowed (needs to be sufficiently critiqued by community and must be authorized). I have a basic idea, however, I would like some tips on when to go with swordsage levels, maybe some power selection ideas. We are generally pretty close to Pathfinder WBL and Adaptive Style has been approved for selection outside of 1st level. This is not a highly optimized group, and is more about having fun. We have a gentleman's agreement to avoid polymorph (and therefore metamorphosis).

Important fact: I have been authorized to use the Sleeping Goddess homebrew by The Demented One. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5408276

I specifically wanted this for Battle Mantra stance and Becoming the Perfect Warrior (a fourth level boost).

My current idea for the build
Human
32 point buy
Str: 14
Dex:12
Con:14
Int: 14
Wis: 16 (Putting both stat boost here)
Cha: 8

Ardent 1 Mantles: Energy, Freedom. Feats: Practiced Manifester, Hidden Talent (Astral Construct)
Ardent 2 Mantle: Time
Ardent 3 Feat: Burrowing Power
Ardent 5 Mantle: Knowledge
Ardent 4
Ardent 6 Feat: Adaptive Style
Swordsage 1 Unarmed Variant
Swordsage 2
Ardent 7 Feat: Empower Power (heavily considering Snap kick to possibly gain more from Battle Mantra, but I worry about the -2 to hit)
Ardent 8

Powers I will be getting: Astral Construct, Dimension Hop, Energy Missile (probably will be my go to damage power and using it with Burrowing Power), Energy Wall, Clairvoyant Sense

Maneuvers: Mighty Throw (to setup for other Setting Sun throws later), Sudden Leap, Burning Blade, Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt (save some PP for out of combat use), Mind Revealed in Battle

The idea I want to go for is, softening up the enemies with an energy missile (with burrowing power and Clairvoyant sense to negate cover), possibly summon an astral construct if the numbers look really unbalanced and then move in to hit some people and regain some PP. The party is not yet set, but we will likely have some type of Tank that I can use as meatshield/distraction to avoid getting too much attention in combat myself.

Basic Gish thoughts:

So, generally speaking, when you have some melee and some casting, you generally want to either use casting to enhance your melee (self-buffing) or use melee to enhance your casting (???)

Using one action to cast spells, and then another action to do something else is crazy inefficient. You might as well just be two low-level characters.

[Keld Denar]

He actually doesn't lose much more than a couple of PP if he picks up Practiced Manifester on his Ardent chassis. An Ardent's spells known are based off his ML, not any other class table like 99% of other casters and manifesters. If he goes into Ephemeral Blade (which loses 2 MLs) with a Swordsage 2 lead in, he'd still have full 20/20 ML and thus still get access to 9th level powers at 17th level. His mantles, especially Time and Freedom, are favorable toward gishing with Dimension Hop and Anticipatory Strike. Granted, he doesn't have the super strong arcane magic boosts that an arcane gish would have like Heart of X, Greater Mirror Image, Greater Blinking, Wraithstrike, etc, but he still has some cool and unique features.

[johnnyripper]

You are both making really good points, in that I am probably spreading myself too thin. I have yet to hear what the party will consist of, and I fear that I might end up being the sole "caster," so it might make more sense to drop swordsage. This would let me pick up dominant ideal. I would probably stick with energy, because, I am at heart, having more fun casting damage spells. Probably pick up entangling ectoplasm dorje to help with some battlefield control and live out my melee dreams through my astral construct, which I can at least use the XPH version.

However, if there is another person who will play caster, I will probably work on moving out energy and kicking in conflict, but move freedom to dominant ideal.

Just to clarify, you could dimension hop, use hustle to regain psionic focus (with psionic meditation), and use deep impact over and over?

Edit: I suppose if I do end up full caster, it might make more sense to go psion and focus on astral construct