Whats your opinion on the Foresight spell? (PHB)

[Devronq]

So just that i was looking at it and well seems very underwhelming... Unless I'm missing something it gives you
Can't be flatfooted or sneak attacked and get a +2 insight bonus to ac and ref saves. Doesn't seem like much for a level 9 spell looks like it be fair and even half that level(4 or 5). Opinions?

[lsfreak]

You use it with celerity. Initiative be damned, you get to go first. Drop the most horribly crippling spell you can on your enemies, or teleport away before they can do anything.

[Flickerdart]

Foresight means you are never surprised, which means that nobody can ambush you or gain a surprise round that you're not part of. This is a huge deal when you're playing in the high levels, because the surprise round can doom a party if the attacker hits them with, say, Dimensional Lock + Quickened Force Cage.

[tyckspoon]

Well, there's this

In addition, the spell gives you a general idea of what action you might take to best protect yourself

Which is potentially very powerful but is also so ridiculously dependent on DM interpretation and application that most discussion of the spell ignores it. If your DM lets it be useful, excellent! If not, you still have the useful explicit mechanical bonuses from the spell.. and when you're dealing with a rocket-tag environment (high-level D&D is inherently rocket-taggy, and it gets even more so when you apply higher optimization) never being surprised or flat-footed is *huge.* Why? Because yielding the first round to your attackers is bad, and being flat-footed prevents you from using Immediate actions. Spellcasters have a lot of ways to defend themselves- you can cast Wings of Cover or Greater Mirror Image or Ruin Delver's Fortune or use your Abrupt Jaunt or put up a Veil from your Initiate of the Seven Veils class features or... all kinds of things. But you can't do *any* of that if you're flat-footed. Enter Foresight, and now it doesn't matter if you got ambushed or not, you can still act.

[Der_DWSage]

It's not so much the mechanical effects that are useful-it's the implications. If you know combat is going to break out a round before it happens, you can shout a warning that you're about to get shot and duck behind the Paladin. (This implication becomes even more clear if you read the line about casting it on others, rather than yourself. If they don't get the 6-second warning, and they don't get the smallish bonus, then what do they get?)

Also, it's just fun to effectively have Spider-Senses that tingle right before you get your head knocked off. :smalltongue:

[Humble Master]

Well it's main ability, that "you receive instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm to the subject of the spell" is rather poorly worded. If all you get from this spell is the things you said in the OP then it is defiantly underpowered.

To try to balance it out I personally rule that the spell lets you know if something is about to happen. For instance if a Wizard is planning to teleport to you and Disintegrate you in your sleep then you know about 1 minute in advance before the Wizard casts the teleport. As an added bonus you always get the surprise round no matter what (even if your opponent has celerity). A free standard action before anybody can do anything is pretty powerful.

[Emperor Tippy]

In a core only game its honestly a decent 7th level spell. Outside of core it becomes a 9th level spell that every high level wizard should have up 24/7.

Combined with Celerity you always act first (or at least force your opponents to make it a Celerity dual) and you have tons of defensive spells that are immediate action casts.

The never be flat-footed and always act in surprise round parts are the really nice bits. The AC and Reflex bonuses are just nifty little extras and the DM adjudicated spidey sense is either awesome or meaningless (and so rarely gets talked about).

[Deophaun]

You can also be a jerky rules lawyer and say you only need to cast it once to "never" be surprised or flat-footed. Because if that effect lasted for a measly 10 min/level, it wouldn't qualify as "never," would it? And text trumps entry.

My DMG still has a dent on the spine from that one.

[Flickerdart]

You can also be a jerky rules lawyer and say you only need to cast it once to "never" be surprised or flat-footed. Because if that effect lasted for a measly 10 min/level, it wouldn't qualify as "never," would it? And text trumps entry.

My DMG still has a dent on the spine from that one.
Spell effects only persist for the duration of the spell. That's like, rule 1 of spells.

[Deophaun]

Spell effects only persist for the duration of the spell. That's like, rule 1 of spells.
Sadly, that's not universally true. There are several "instantaneous" duration spells that have riders that last additional rounds, for example. Specific > general and all that.

[Flickerdart]

Sadly, that's not universally true. There are several "instantaneous" duration spells that have riders that last additional rounds, for example. Specific > general and all that.
Fortunately for us, "never" is not a duration in 3.5.

[Deophaun]

Fortunately for us, "never" is not a duration in 3.5.
Please. You are making me relive the incident that dinged my DMG.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you're questioning why the ability to never be suprised is powerful enough to warrant only being available to 17th level and higher characters, browse through a few military tactics manuals.

Suprise is an absolutely immense tactical advantage. A spell that makes it so that this advantage is unavailable to your enemies is absolutely enormous. Never being flat-footed and always acting in the suprise round, if you even allow one, is the meat of this spell. The piddly +2 to AC and ref saves is just icing. The clause about knowing -how- the intended suprise attack is going to go down is too DM dependent to measure objectively but could also be pretty powerful, depending.

[Devronq]

So just to clarify then the most important part of the spell is to clarify how never be surprised and always knowing what will happen before it happens means in your game. I am the DM btw i just hate oddly worded spells like this :P

also thats very very silly to beleive the spell lasts forever... i dont see why at dm would agree to that...The word never is clearly meant to be for the duration of the spell

[Kelb_Panthera]

Almost.

The never suprised aspect is plain RAW. As long as you have foresight up you -always- act in the suprise round.

At the DM's (your) discretion, shouting out a warning before the enemy initiates combat -may- prevent a suprise round from occuring at all. Just remember to rule consistently. If the NPC with foresight can prevent a suprise round so can a PC with foresight.