Too much optimizing?

[Serin]

Ok so I think Ive backed myself into a corner optimizing. I invoked the Heroes of Horror taint rules for the bonus feats because I am undead. If the DM realizes this and uses it against me then *any* living minions I have through leadership or as Blood Ghouls will eventually start to manifest Corruption and Depravity just from hanging out near me or in my castle.

Stratagies to mitigate this so the world doesn't catch on to my vampy-ness. Go.

(Please)

[Tvtyrant]

I believe there is an undead version of leadership from Libris Mortis. This would deal with the taint issue, and hats of disguise are cheap!

[Kuulvheysoon]

AbusingUsing Taint like that is more Cheese than Optimizing, really.

[olentu]

Fire them and get some new ones. Or a resetting trap of one of those spells that lowers taint. Have your minions stand in it for a while every day.

[CRtwenty]

Ok so I think Ive backed myself into a corner optimizing. I invoked the Heroes of Horror taint rules for the bonus feats because I am undead. If the DM realizes this and uses it against me then *any* living minions I have through leadership or as Blood Ghouls will eventually start to manifest Corruption and Depravity just from hanging out near me or in my castle.

Stratagies to mitigate this so the world doesn't catch on to my vampy-ness. Go.

(Please)

Hey, you didn't expect to mess around with the dark powers of Evil and get off scott free did you?

[Tvtyrant]

Fire them and get some new ones. Or a resetting trap of one of those spells that lowers taint. Have your minions stand in it for a while every day.

Everyday you will take your happiness and delusion pills at 7 AM. Enjoy your day citizen!

[Alleran]

Hey, you didn't expect to mess around with the dark powers of Evil and get off scott free did you?
The gold standard of optimisation - his Koboldy lordship Pun-Pun - does it. It's reasonable to expect others to do the same, yes?

[Serin]

Fire them and get some new ones. Or a resetting trap of one of those spells that lowers taint. Have your minions stand in it for a while every day.

Remove Curse and Remove Disease reduce Depravity and Corruption by 1 point each. Greater Restoration Removes 1 point per caster level.

I could put resetting traps of these in the basement and send them down there routinely to stand in it....

I can call it The Mako Reactor...and the minions are in the Soldier program....

Me Gusta.

[Slipperychicken]

The gold standard of optimisation - his Koboldy lordship Pun-Pun - does it. It's reasonable to expect others to do the same, yes?

Even Pun-Pun took a step toward eeevil to gain favor from Pazuzu, so he kind of had to sacrifice his virtue for power.

[Kornaki]

You presumably took that step toward evil when you, y'know, started messing around with the Dark Powers of Evil. I don't think it counts

[Keld Denar]

I could put resetting traps of these in the basement and send them down there routinely to stand in it....

No...put it in the middle of the square. Then you can ask your minions if they have anything better to do than go MARCHING UP AND DOWN THE SQUARE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780)

[nyarlathotep]

Make all of them take the pure soul feat. you run a very militant orphanage.

[Tvtyrant]

No...put it in the middle of the square. Then you can ask your minions if they have anything better to do than go MARCHING UP AND DOWN THE SQUARE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780)

Or have one bathroom and have them lining the hallway down from the door. Now their horrid mornings also keep them sane!

[Serin]

No...put it in the middle of the square. Then you can ask your minions if they have anything better to do than go MARCHING UP AND DOWN THE SQUARE?!?!?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780)

EVEN BETTER!

*edit* I thought about the pure soul thing. That would be a great solution but it relies on the DM letting me hand craft all my minions. If she makes them it may not be possible.

[rexx1888]

i know optimizers generally dont like this idea, but why not take the hit... its far more interesting that way from a story point of view. Why not explore the consequences of real power and have a laugh roleplaying a proper villain. One thats relateable rather than joker coockoo :D

[Serin]

Because when you play a proper cookoo villain they end up dead at level two. Like my Blood Mage in 4E that got killed by a party member because she was a drow and happened to enjoy the taste of human flesh...and ate a baby that was already missing an arm, a leg, half its torso, and an eye. No seriously she found it that way.

And I have no intention of retconning my decision to invoke taint. I did it and now I have to live with it...

BUT! A successful villain recognizes her weaknesses and has plans to deal with them and mitigate them. She also has contingencies for these plans, and contingencies for her contingencies, and then a few escape routes, and a scapegoat or two.

*edit* First half of that is kind of pointless, I thought you were suggesting that I *BE* joker cookoo. Ill leave it there though cus that character was kinda funny. In a tragic sort of way.

[rexx1888]

lol ok then :D i would perhaps suggest talking to the Dm about the fact that the possibility is there for her to mess with your followers, and then roleplay a way out of it.

so for example, lets say such an such trusted ally goes berserk or betrays you or what have you. That makes your character in characterness become aware of the risk, and then as a result you have an in character reason to force your dm to put the pure soul feat(or whatever it is) on all the hired help. AKA "my crazy villain realises the risk corruption presents to her minions, and works to ensure they are all capable of resisting that. The ones that fail "insert corruption test here" get drunk(vamp style) and the rest are kept on payroll. Thus, you use survival of the fittest as a reason why all your peons arent about to stab you in the back.

i dunno, i think as a rule DM's should be willing to work with players for this kind of stuff, irrespective of optimisation. Fact is, if you dont optimise interesting character concepts at least a little bit the DM loses as much as you do(as they steamroll that concept before it gets interesting and they lose that part of their story)

[TuggyNE]

The gold standard of optimisation - his Koboldy lordship Pun-Pun - does it. It's reasonable to expect others to do the same, yes?

As someone said earlier, that's cheese, not (practical) optimization.

[Serin]

RE: Rexx that's a pretty good idea. It will probably be done to improve fun within the world as I can't really *do* anything about it pre emptively as that would be meta. Although it won't be my Trusted lieutenants, or even their lieutenants. As these individuals will all be undead already and probably won't leave the castle grounds unless I sent them to do something. I'm concerned with the servants or foot soldiers or city guards becoming tainted.

RE: Tugg

Technically I would only consider this use of taint as Least Cheese at worst. Considering it is explicitly written that Undead benefit in this way, and I was undead long before I had even read the taint rules. I didn't become undead to abuse taint, I abused taint because I am undead.

It's not like its DCS here, that would be greater cheese.

[Gildedragon]

I believe this is what is known as "Hoisted by your own petard"

As to how to compensate it:
1)Pure soul is an option: Chaos shuffle your minions into it

Edit: Oh... I see. Not a fan of playing hard to get with the primal forces of chaos. A'aight. Read options two and three below
2)As mentioned by others: traps that reduce taint
3)Start growing silkworms for sashes and rearing lambs for velum... a lot of silkworms and lambs. The meat-products will keep your followers fed and happy. And you can use the bones to make adorable skeletal-lamb minions

[Serin]

Im more than content to poke at Evil and such. But poking around at chaos would probably seriously endanger my lawful alignment. At least with lawful entities I at least have an equal shot at trapping them into a bad agreement. With chaos they will just screw you with Pazuzu Fiat or something.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Are you going to be indulging in Tainted Sorcerer shenanigans?

[Serin]

Most likely not as that would require heavily refluffing the class. This PC is very melee centric and dislikes the use of magic in combat. She think's she's better than that.

[Coidzor]

Im more than content to poke at Evil and such. But poking around at chaos would probably seriously endanger my lawful alignment. At least with lawful entities I at least have an equal shot at trapping them into a bad agreement. With chaos they will just screw you with Pazuzu Fiat or something.

I always found that proper LE was about never giving the other guy any chance of trapping you in a bad agreement.