Shadowcraft mage and CL via Earth+Heighten

[bot]

Hi, I once played a Shadowcraft mage and made the whole setup and stuff - however thats over an year ago, and tonight I get to play with it again :smallwink:

However while trying to refresh how it worked, I can't seem to figure out one thing.

The Earth spell feat adds +1 to spell level, in excess to the normal. That I get.

However what about the added CL? If my 12 lvl SC heightens a 0 lvl silent image to lvl 6, does that mean the CL would be lvl 18? (+ other bonuses)

[Gildedragon]

Pardon the pleonasm but your caster level is your caster level, not the level needed to cast the spell. Your CL is 12+bonuses.

Edit: In this case part of the bonuses are the ones bestowed by the feat (1 less than the total number of spell levels heightened)

[bot]

but what's with the text in Earth Spell feat that says:

"As long as you are standing on stone or unworked earth (including normal soil), you can use the Heighten Spell feat to added effect. If you cast a spell using a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level, the spell is treated as a spell of two levels higher and your effective caster level is increased by one. If you use a spell slot two levels higher, the spell is treated as three levels higher and your effective caster level is increased by two, and so on. You cannot gain the benefi t of this feat when casting a spell with the air, fi re, or water descriptor."

That's how understand it right now, however I believe I would remember such a massive bonus - but it doesn't ring any bells at all.

[Gildedragon]

Pardon me then: That is then precisely what it does.
0-6 is a six level increase, and thus 12+5 (levels increased-1) +bonuses
I generally just care about the "spell 1 level higher than normal" bit.

[bot]

Pardon me then: That is then precisely what it does.
0-6 is a six level increase, and thus 12+5 (levels increased-1) +bonuses
I generally just care about the "spell 1 level higher than normal" bit.

Ok cool, thanks.

You might be right about the -1, but I can't see it right now. Shouldn't it be 12+6, hence its +1 caster pr. increase in level - and since it's 6 level increases its also +6 to CL.

I guess the -1 comes from the level penalty from casting shadow magic (which is mitigated by Earth spell feat), but that doesn't affect CL does it?

[Gildedragon]

Nope.
So earth spell can never 'heighten' a spell to just +1
+2 Spell Levels leads to +1 CL; +3 levels, +2 CL; +4 levels, +3 CL...
The caster level bonus is one less than the total level of the spell

Now, had you heightened the cantrip to use a 6th level slot (a 7th level spell as per Earth Spell) your CL bonus would be +6

[bot]

Cool thanks, that's also what I thought - just couldn't imagine that I'd forget such a huge bonus : )

Another question relatively (un)related...

If you, as a 12th lvl shadowcraft mage, had to choose between the feat Residual Magic (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/residual-magic--2434/) or taking a level in Shadow adept and thereby gaining 4 feats (Shadow Weave Magic, Insidious Magic, Pernicious Magic, Tenacious Magic)... which would you pick?

One the one side, Residual magic is amazing with hightened 0 lvl silent images for a free 6th lvl spell (using just a 0 lvl spell for it). However on the other side, the shadow wave feats gives a total of:


+4 to CL in regards to be dispelled
Detect spells must beat opposed CL check to succeed to see my illusions, even true seeing!
+1 DC to illusion spells and +1 to overcome SR with illusion spells
+4 to overcome SR (stacks with above)


Is it a easy choice that I'm just missing, or are they both fairly balanced and it's a toss up between 'em?

[Gildedragon]

Residual magic. I am partial to superreal illusions, and shadow weave magic doesn't add to that.

I'd also ask your DM of the possibility of lowering the pseudoreality of your spells at will (what if you want a particular illusion to be only 1% real...)

Also the shadow weave is very setting specific.

[bot]

Residual magic. I am partial to superreal illusions, and shadow weave magic doesn't add to that.

Thanks, I'm also leaning towards Residual magic. We don't play with above 100%, so can't bring that into play.


I'd also ask your DM of the possibility of lowering the pseudoreality of your spells at will (what if you want a particular illusion to be only 1% real...)


Pardon my ignorance, but why would I want that? - what nice trick have I overlooked..


Also the shadow weave is very setting specific.
That's fine for me as we play Forgotten Realms

[Keld Denar]

Most of the stuff from Shadow Adept is rather superfluous. +4 CL vs dispels and to penetrate SR is kinda moot, since most of your higher level spell slots will already be getting a +5-6 bonus on CL, which includes both damage AND penetrating SR and resisting dispels. Adding more onto that does make it better, but it is close to the "win more" category of overkill. Residual Magic essentially doubles the number of higher level spell slots you have per day as long as you cast them in pairs. Even if you don't need them, it's nice to have that staying power.

[Gildedragon]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would I want that? - what nice trick have I overlooked..


Mostly for things you would rather you and yours would be affected by (by forgoing your saves) but you might still want objects and others to be unaffected by, or viceversa. A ladder, a wall, a bridge...

[bot]

Thanks Keld! I agree, it does sound better with Residual Magic.


Mostly for things you would rather you and yours would be affected by (by forgoing your saves) but you might still want objects and others to be unaffected by, or viceversa. A ladder, a wall, a bridge...

Hmm, sorry but I still don't get how that's connected to lowering the effect when "failing" a saving throw. If I want it to affect me or something, then why only 1%?

[Fouredged Sword]

Shadow effect deal only the % amount of effect to objects. Thus, you can explode all the people on the rickety bridge without burning the bridge itself if the illusion is 1% real.

[bot]

Ah ok, I think I finally understood it - so I'm counting on my enemies will fail their saving throw and get the full effect while obejcts will automatically survive.

Don't think the DM will accept that, but nice idea.