Dual shields

[Grayson01]

Here is a question i have always windered and have never really found any rules written If you wield two shields one in each hand dose the AC bonus stack the only argument I can think of RAW is like bonuses don't stack (except with certain modifiers I.E. Dodge...) but I have always wondered if I am thinking I the right context for this.

[Gwendol]

Short answer is "No".

[Fouredged Sword]

Shield bonuses do not stack.

You can get the benefit of any enhancements on ether shield, so long as those properties didn't overlap.

[Invader]

Although if you're doing something as unoptimized as welding 2 shields I can't imagine a DM being a stickler for an extra couple AC.

[RoyVG]

Building a shield fighter requires quite some feats
Building a two weapon fighter requires quite some feats (not to mention money)

Doing both means you will need some feats for free, or many Fighter levels.

Officially, it wont stack, but I dont think it will be so much of a problem.

[Gwendol]

Agile shield fighter replaces TWF and does away with the DEX requirement.

[Darrin]

Here is a question i have always windered and have never really found any rules written If you wield two shields one in each hand dose the AC bonus stack the only argument I can think of RAW is like bonuses don't stack (except with certain modifiers I.E. Dodge...) but I have always wondered if I am thinking I the right context for this.

If you make one shield out of riverine (Stormwrack), then half of that shield bonus becomes a deflection bonus, which will stack with your other shield.

Or you can use the Inlindl School style feat (Drow of the Underdark) to convert your shield bonus divided by half into an attack bonus for light weapons.

[The Viscount]

Alternatively, if you use one shield for bashing, the other one would provide you with the AC bonus while you lose the bonus from the other one.

[Venger]

person man has a highly relevant handbook about shields (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123630) and even wielding 2 of them, so that's definitely relevant to your interests.

[Talionis]

Although if you're doing something as unoptimized as welding 2 shields I can't imagine a DM being a stickler for an extra couple AC.

100% agree with this. So what if the guy has slightly higher AC, you've nerfed your weapon slot pretty badly. For Low Optimization this is perfectly fine.

As a caveat, I wouldn't allow this with D2 Crusader though. If you are going to be that RAW, I wouldn't let you bend the rules that much.

[Tuki Tuki]

Actually yes the do. Players handbook specifically states that Shield bonuses do not stack with spells or enhancements that give shield bonus. IT DOES NOT SAY however that shield bonuses from shields do not stack with shield bonuses from other shields. If a character wanted to run around with two shields, they can and they can gain the ac from both of them.

[Invader]

Actually yes the do. Players handbook specifically states that Shield bonuses do not stack with spells or enhancements that give shield bonus. IT DOES NOT SAY however that shield bonuses from shields do not stack with shield bonuses from other shields. If a character wanted to run around with two shields, they can and they can gain the ac from both of them.

This is incorrect. In fact it exactly says they don't stack.


If a shield bonus doesn't stack with another shield bonus how do you figure they stack? :smallconfused:
From the SRD:
Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn’t stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm

[Tuki Tuki]

This is incorrect. In fact it exactly says they don't stack.


If a shield bonus doesn't stack with another shield bonus how do you figure they stack? :smallconfused:
From the SRD:
Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn’t stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm

Exactly, Shields do not grant the effect of shield bonus, they grant shield bonus. effects are from spells and enhancements.

[JusticeZero]

Anyone who thinks it's a great idea to fight with two shields should be prepared to go three rounds with two shields IRL while someone tries to hit them with a padded weapon or two. I have never seen any depiction of how that would work that is the slightest bit plausible.
And no, the bonuses do not stack, and IIRC, one of the feats a shield user has to pick up anyways negates the penalty from a slam.

[Oryan77]

Exactly, Shields do not grant the effect of shield bonus, they grant shield bonus. effects are from spells and enhancements.
*my head explodes*

[Tuki Tuki]

Anyone who thinks it's a great idea to fight with two shields should be prepared to go three rounds with two shields IRL while someone tries to hit them with a padded weapon or two. I have never seen any depiction of how that would work that is the slightest bit plausible.
And no, the bonuses do not stack, and IIRC, one of the feats a shield user has to pick up anyways negates the penalty from a slam.

I'd also love to see someone cast a single spell while someone tries to hit them:smalltongue:

[Invader]

Exactly, Shields do not grant the effect of shield bonus, they grant shield bonus. effects are from spells and enhancements.

No, another shield would be an effect that grants a shield bonus, 2 shields do not stack.

[Tuki Tuki]

No, another shield would be an effect that grants a shield bonus, 2 shields do not stack.

No, shields just grant base shield bonus not the effect of shield bonus. Spells and enhancements grant the effect of things.What you are saying is that shields don't act as shields, they grant the effect of shields. If that were true, no one would waste a body slot on them and they'd just get bracers of the spell shield. Armor can't be stacked with armor because you cannot put armor in the same slot as armor cause there is only one slot, where as with shields you can wear two because there is two slots as there is two arm slots. If what you are saying is true, then shield buffer spells grant effects of effects, meaning they would stack with effects of shields because they aren't granting the effect of shield bonus they are granting effects of effects.

[TuggyNE]

No, shields just grant base shield bonus not the effect of shield bonus. Spells and enhancements grant the effect of things.What you are saying is that shields don't act as shields, they grant the effect of shields. If that were true, no one would waste a body slot on them and they'd just get bracers of armor. […] If what you are saying is true, then shield buffer spells grant effects of effects, meaning they would stack with effects of shields because they aren't granting the effect of shield bonus they are granting effects of effects.

That doesn't make any sense, because bracers of armor are an armor bonus, not a shield bonus.

What's more, your artificial distinction between "shield" and "effect of shield" has, to my knowledge, zero rules support.

Here, have some rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking):
Shield Bonus
A shield bonus improves Armor Class and is granted by a shield or by a spell or magic effect that mimics a shield. Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses. A magic shield typically grants an enhancement bonus to the shield's shield bonus, which has the effect of increasing the shield's overall bonus to AC. A shield bonus granted by a spell or magic item typically takes the form of an invisible, tangible field of force that protects the recipient. A shield bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks.

Black and white, shield bonuses do not stack with themselves, whether they are from shields, magic effects, Ex effects, effects of effects of effects, or the moon.

[JusticeZero]

You can wear more than one suit of armor at once with layering. You only get the benefit of the better armor bonus. Likewise , you only apply one shield bonus.

[Tuki Tuki]

That doesn't make any sense, because bracers of armor are an armor bonus, not a shield bonus.

What's more, your artificial distinction between "shield" and "effect of shield" has, to my knowledge, zero rules support.

Here, have some rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking):

Black and white, shield bonuses do not stack with themselves, whether they are from shields, magic effects, Ex effects, effects of effects of effects, or the moon.

That doesnt talk about shields at all, as armor bonuses are different than shield bonuses. If they aren't then shield bonuses don't stack with armor meaning you can't wear armor and use a shield and get the ac from both.
And shield bonus is NOT the effect of shield bonus, again.

[Tuki Tuki]

You can wear more than one suit of armor at once with layering. You only get the benefit of the better armor bonus. Likewise , you only apply one shield bonus.

No, rules as written you can only wear one type of armor in your armor slot.

[JusticeZero]

Yes, and you can only have one shield in your shield slot. The fact that you have two hands is exactly as relevant as the fact that you can put a chain shirt on under a breastplate.

[Tuki Tuki]

Yes, and you can only have one shield in your shield slot. The fact that you have two hands is exactly as relevant as the fact that you can put a chain shirt on under a breastplate.

Ah, but the shields take up the arm slot, and you have two. :smallwink:

[Invader]

From the SRD:
Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses.

There's nothing to debate, they don't stack.

[Tuki Tuki]

Wizards should really check the books they market because of debates like this :smallannoyed:

[Tuki Tuki]

From the SRD:
Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses.

There's nothing to debate, they don't stack.

PHB "Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other
effects that grant a shield bonus, such as the shields spell."

Again with the shields aren't effects.:smalltongue:

[Invader]

PHB "Similarly, the shield bonus from a doesn't stack with other
effects that grant a shield bonus, such as the s
Again with the shields aren't effects.:smalltongue:

It doesn't matter how you interpret the definition of effects. The rules very clearly state shield bonuses don't stack.

[Tuki Tuki]

It doesn't matter how you interpret the definition of effects. The rules very clearly state shield bonuses don't stack.

Can you not read? Shield bonuses don't stack with the EFFECTS of shield bonuses. So shield bonuses do stack. If you don't like that fact, don't make characters like that.

[JusticeZero]

Every few days someone comes up with the idea to make a ridiculous mathematical abstraction and thinks it is a neat new concept. It's worse than the half robot, half cat girl concept.

[Invader]

Can you not read? Shield bonuses don't stack with the EFFECTS of shield uses. So shield bonuses do stack. If you don't like that fact, don't make characters like that.

The word effects is not a game term it has nothing to do with raw and the rule I cited doesnt use the term effects anyway.

From the srd:
Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses.

It's black and white, they don't stack.

[Tuki Tuki]

Every few days someone comes up with the idea to make a ridiculous mathematical abstraction and thinks it is a neat new concept. It's worse than the half robot, half cat girl concept.

This isn't new at all, haha.

[Tuki Tuki]

The word effects is not a game term it has nothing to do with raw and the rule I cited doesnt use the term effects anyway.

From the srd:
Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses.

It's black and white, they don't stack.

The srd is based upon the phb, therefore the phb rules over it.

[Invader]

The srd is based upon the phb, therefore the phb rules over it.

Stacking rules are in the DMG, it also states shield bonuses don't stack. As far as I know there's no rule that says the PHB trumps the DMG.

[Tuki Tuki]

And the srd says exactly what the phb says.
SRD: "Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn’t stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus."

[Tuki Tuki]

Stacking rules are in the DMG, it also states shield bonuses don't stack. As far as I know there's no rule that says the PHB trumps the DMG.

Can you point out where in the DMG? Because "Behind the curtain: stacking bonuses" on page 21 only talks about how spells don't stack.

[olentu]

And the srd says exactly what the phb says.
SRD: "Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn’t stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus."

PHB page 312.

[The Dodr Dragon]

Ahh this reminds me of the thri-kreen totemist I made with 8 arms, each holding a shield.

He would spin with his spiked shields making a spiral of epidemic spinnyness and confuse his enemies and the DM with pure awesome. :smallcool:

[Tuki Tuki]

PHB page 312.

You, sir, just won the argument. Cheers.