[3.5] Crafting Time Confusion

[Maginomicon]

I've been told that crafting is a sucker's game. Why is that?

The SRD rules for the craft skill base the time required for completion on the result of skill checks week-by-week or day-by-day, however, the Magic Item Compendium includes a "time to create" for each item that's expressed in days.

Am I missing something? These seem be contrary methods to eachother. How can crafting take variable time based on skill checks and have a set amount of time required?

Is the Magic Item Compendium version expressing the minimum time required? If so, how does that make logical sense?

I've also heard that the entire crafting system needs an overhaul. If you agree, what overhaul existing overhaul methods do you like?

[Urpriest]

You're talking about two different things. Are you asking a question about using the Craft skill to craft mundane items, or using feats to craft magic items?

[Diarmuid]

The Craft Skill system is for creating mundane items. Like creating the MW suit of Plate Armor that could then be enchanted.

The MIC "time to create" is solely referring to how long it takes to place the magic into an already crafted mundane item.

The reason people say it's a suckers game comes in when you start looking at how long it would take to create something like Adamantine or Mithril full plate. I havent done the math, but I seem to recall seeing someone saying that would take half a year or more.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Yup, Urpriest gets to the heart of the matter.

Craft skills, like Craft (Armorsmith) or Craft (Alchemy) calculate "work done" based on the skill check. The item is done when the "work done" equals the item's price.

Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Craft Wand, etc., instead have a set rate of 1000 gp per day as part of the feat. No actual check required. Once the 1000 gp per day = total price, the item is done.

The Craft skill denotes skill; the Craft magic item feats denotes uniform blandness... it gets the job done. A Wondrous Item crafted by a 3rd level Wizard is done in exactly the same amount of time as that same Wondrous Item crafted by a 20th level Wizard. It's all a uniform rate.


The reason people say it's a suckers game comes in when you start looking at how long it would take to create something like Adamantine or Mithril full plate. I havent done the math, but I seem to recall seeing someone saying that would take half a year or more.

Let's do the math.
A 1st level character with Craft as a class skill (Fighter, Expert, Wizard, lots!) can devote 4 ranks. Let's say the person wanted to make a crafter, and chose Int of at least 14 as a secondary attribute (+2).

So, taking 10 makes 16. For say, Craft (Armorsmith) this means the crafter can at least make AC +6 or less armor (let's say Banded Mail). So, the amount of work done each week (5 days w 2 days of rest), is DC x check result (16x16) in silver pieces. This is 256 sp of work done each week. It will take about 5-6 weeks to finish that 250 gp suit of banded mail. Considering the average unskilled laborer makes 3 gp per month, even after the raw materials are figured, the crafter has created 166 gp of value in those 5-6 weeks. Assuming the armor was comissioned... that will feed the crafter for 13 years if he spends what most unskilled laborers spend to survive.

Wizards + Fabricate = lots of valuable goods really quickly : ) No cheese or tricks required.

[Maginomicon]

Ah.

Regarding the time required being insane, wouldn't the simple answer to that be to house rule that the time to create is associated with the cost to create? That is, in the craft skill description, make the following basic change:

Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp the cost of the raw materials in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces cost of the raw materials in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price cost of raw materials, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces cost of the raw materials in silver pieces.

I figured that was always the case, but apparently upon re-reading it I was mistaken.

---------

On a separate note, a line in the dragonhide special material says...

Dragonhide armor costs double what masterwork armor of that type ordinarily costs, but it takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type....but what does "ordinary armor of that type" mean? Is it referring to a hide armor, or masterwork hide armor?

[CaladanMoonblad]

On a separate note, a line in the dragonhide special material says...

Dragonhide armor costs double what masterwork armor of that type ordinarily costs, but it takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type....but what does "ordinary armor of that type" mean? Is it referring to a hide armor, or masterwork hide armor?

You can make dragonhide armor into any armor type... so Hide, Scale Mail (get it, it's a joke!), or Plate Mail. This is how Druids gets to wear Plate Mail (AC +8) made of Dragonhide because of their whole metal aversion thing.

So... Plate armor costs 1500 gp, +150 gp for masterwork component... so 1650(x2)= cost of dragonhide plate armor. So raw materials is 1/3 of this total cost. Anyway, that's my understanding.

[Tvtyrant]

The biggest issue with crafting is that if you are actively dungeon crawling/surface exploring, you will level far faster than you will make items. 5-6 weeks for a suit of basic armor, while a low level character might level 3 times or more in that time (13.5 encounters for leveling)/(3-4 encounters a day)= 4.5-3.4 days per level. So you could potentially level 12 times in the time it takes to make one suit of armor.

That is an upward bound, but it is more than possible to level several times in 6 weeks.