Simple Archer Build

[Everynone]

Im trying to make a straight up archer, with a pure Fighter 20 level progression. As of now, he's human (to make it as as vanilla as possible), and has max skill points in Craft (bowmaking) and Craft (fletching), just because it fits (as well as half-max in Climb and Jump). So three questions, as of now:

1) How do I make enchanted bows and arrows using my current skills? Do I need caster levels somewhere? I only ask because it would be cool for him to have a bunch of variously enchanted bows and arrows in his arsenal.

2) What feats should I choose for this guy? I already have Weapon Focus - Greater Weapon Specialization (comp. longbow), as well as Point Blank Shot and all other 'Shot' feats (duh), but what else?

3) Is there any possible way to give him access to the Spot and Listen skills, instead of Climb and Jump, or maybe in addition to them? I love Spot and Listen checks, personally.

[ArcturusV]

Well, you could take a class that gives you Caster Levels (Which you'll need for Crafting Magical Weapons and Armor). You could also pick up the Ancestral Relic feat from Book of Exalted Deeds (Requires: Alignment-Good). Doing that you can basically enchant your relic (Like a Composite Longbow of 20 Str), by just throwing money at it, no caster required.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the Greatbow might be something worth thinking about.

[Everynone]

Well, you could take a class that gives you Caster Levels (Which you'll need for Crafting Magical Weapons and Armor). You could also pick up the Ancestral Relic feat from Book of Exalted Deeds (Requires: Alignment-Good). Doing that you can basically enchant your relic (Like a Composite Longbow of 20 Str), by just throwing money at it, no caster required.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency for the Greatbow might be something worth thinking about.

I'm not familiar with relics, so how do they work? And also, what's a greatbow? I'm assuming it's a really big bow, but it's not in core...what sourcebook is it from? Also, is there a way to emulate a caster level 5th required to pick up Craft Magic Arms and Armor?

[CaladanMoonblad]

To make enchanted arrows? That's more of a wizard thing who takes ranks in Craft (bowyer)- many groups don't make arrows separate btw. I've only ever seen arrows being made with bowyer...

But a decent archer build is to pursue Fighter long enough to get your feats, and try out Arcane Archer (only requires a 1 level dip in Sorc or Wiz), then you can be a walking talking Hank's Energy Bow. Make sure to pick up an Efficient Quiver to hold your ammo as well.

[Feilith]

1) How do I make enchanted bows and arrows using my current skills? Do I need caster levels somewhere? I only ask because it would be cool for him to have a bunch of variously enchanted bows and arrows in his arsenal.
Yeah, you'll need caster levels for Craft wondrous item, but if you have a caster buddy and are willing to pay him the Gp and for his xp then im sure he wouldn't mind making them for you.

2)What feats should I choose for this guy? I already have Weapon Focus - Greater Weapon Specialization (comp. longbow), as well as Point Blank Shot and all other 'Shot' feats (duh), but what else?
Ummm, there's a gigantic hole in a Ranger/Archer Fighter build. Take Mounted combat and mounted archery. Use your warhorse to run circles around your enemies while you pummel them with a barrage of arrows. And if they catch you just have mad ranks in Ride and when they attack you your ride check functions as your AC thanks to mounted combat. At lv 20 that's 23+d20 for AC, and that's a nightmare to beat even at 20 BaB

3)This any possible way to give him access to the Spot and Listen skills, instead of Climb and Jump, or maybe in addition to them? I love Spot and Listen checks, personally.
Not that I'm aware of, But if you ask your DM and explain what you're doing then he shouldn't have much an issue making those class skills for you. Just be aware of becoming too MAD. Str and Dex for combat plus Wis for spot/listen is stretching it.

Or of course, there's always the other option of playing a ranger and getting the class skills and feats within RAW

[Everynone]

To make enchanted arrows? That's more of a wizard thing who takes ranks in Craft (bowyer)- many groups don't make arrows separate btw. I've only ever seen arrows being made with bowyer...

Is bowyer listed as bowmaking is the SRD? I'm only reading the skill description as making bows, so that's why I added fletching as well. Are there no rules in the SRD for fletching arrows?


But a decent archer build is to pursue Fighter long enough to get your feats, and try out Arcane Archer (only requires a 1 level dip in Sorc or Wiz), then you can be a walking talking Hank's Energy Bow. Make sure to pick up an Efficient Quiver to hold your ammo as well.

Doesn't arcane archer require you to be elf or half-elf? I mean, those are the two other races I was considering, but it would still eat into my skill ranks and feats (he has skills 2 + Int of 10, so not alot). Also, I didn't entirely want to go the arcane archer route...I just wana make this guy a really good archer who can make his own stuff if he wants to. It's not out of the realm of possibility, though.

[CaladanMoonblad]

So the thinking is, that a bow and arrow is a weapon system. Like a flail. There are different skills for making the spiked ball, the chain, and the handle... but its all taken care of under Craft (Weaponsmithing). Same thing for Bowyer (or Bowmaking).

If you know how arrows are actually made (using long branches and a fire to straighten the shafts), it's very similar to making a field bow (again, using a fire to bend the bowshaft). In all the survival shows out there, the bow and arrow is a complete weapon, and they show how to make both (because a bow is useless without an arrow). Much like a flail is useless without a handle or chain. You'd just have a spiked ball, which I suppose you could baseball throw...

Yeah, Arcane Archer does require a half-elf at least, but it's the cheapest way to end up with magic arrows (because its a SQ). Think of it, you'd also get your own familiar (go Crow/Raven, since it will be able to talk and act as a scout or spy, and still be able to report verbally what it has seen and heard).

[gooddragon1]

The one thing I'd recommend for any archer build is a way to overcome DR and hardness. This is done with the force enhancement from magic item compendium and adamantine tipped arrows from the dungeon masters guide. Dealing 1d8+5 damage will not help you if the enemy has damage reduction 15/not what you're using.

[Eldariel]

You don't really have enough good archery feats to make a decent Archer as pure Fighter in Core only; Fighter 20 gets way more feats than you can make use of. If you're playing Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/), however, things get a lot better with scaling damage/to hit bonuses, Deadly Aim and all the other good stuff.

If you're playing 3.5, I strongly suggest Ranger/Fighter/Barbarian multiclass mix (gets you skills like Spot & Hide, Fast Movement for kiting in combat and fairly good all-around damage; Fighter 12 is still accessible for Greater Weapon Spec if that interests you). It's just all-around better than Fighter 20, which frankly wastes 8 levels that grant you absolutely nothing and utterly fails on the front of skills, many of which are fairly important for an Archer.

[BowStreetRunner]

The Arms and Equipment Guide page 62 lists the skill for both a Bowyer and a Fletcher as Craft (bowmaking). So you only need the one skill to do both.

The Craft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm) skill can allow you to make normal bows and arrows, masterwork bows and arrows, and bows and arrows constructed from special materials like Darkwood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#darkwood).

To make magical bows or arrows you would need the Craft Magical Arms and Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftMagicArmsAndArmor) feat, which has a prerequisite of caster level 5th.

My recommendation for feats to build an archer would include Point Blank Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot)(+1 to attack w/in 30') Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus) (+1 to attack), Weapon Specialization (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponSpecialization) (+2 to damage), Greater Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#greaterWeaponFocus) (+1 to attack), Greater Weapon Specialization (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#greaterWeaponSpecialization) (+2 to damage), Ranged Weapon Mastery (piercing) [PH2] (+2 to attack/+2 to damage), and Knowledge Devotion [CC] (at minimum +1 to attack/+1 to damage) as surefire ways to get your attack and damage up. Fighters rarely need their skill points badly, so put 2 points cross-class into each knowledge skill used to identify creatures (arcana, dungeoneering, local, nature, religion, the planes) and you will always get at least +1/+1 from knowledge devotion.

I would also take Rapid Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot) (1 additional attack when full attacking) and Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#manyshot) (2-4 arrows as a standard attack w/in 30') as ways to increase your number of attacks.

I usually would recommend Ready Shot [HB] (+3d6 vs charger) as well, since creatures are more likely to make charge attacks at a ranged striker like you.

The feat Guerilla Scout [HB] (+1 initiative, Listen and Spot cost 1 rank cross-class) would give you the ability to purchase cross-class ranks in listen and spot at half price, but you would still have the same max ranks.

[Blackhawk748]

3) Is there any possible way to give him access to the Spot and Listen skills, instead of Climb and Jump, or maybe in addition to them? I love Spot and Listen checks, personally.

I think the feat is called Guerrilla Scout (or something close) its in Heroes of Battle, right next to Block arrow which i highly recommend as it lets you negate one non-magic ranged attack with a shield, just wear a buckler

Edit: I've been Rouge'd

[Emperor Tippy]

Switch to one of the Elf variants, I would probably go with Gray Elf but whatever works for you. The four extra feats and the +2 Dex are quite nice for an Archer, besides its thematic.

Get the Dead Eye feat so that you add Dex to Damage (in addition to Strength) when attacking with a bow that you have Weapon Focus for within 30 ft.

For hilarious fun do it with a crossbow and also get Crossbow Sniper (for an additional .5 Dex mod bonus to damage.

Take the Targetteer ACF for Fighter (Dragon #310). It gets you Dex to damage on ranged attack rolls in place of strength that stacks with the previously mentioned ones. It also has a couple other useful abilities for an archer.

Take the feat Hidden Talent at level 1 and choose the Complete psionic power Extend Range, it lets you double the range increment with your bow.

Now you qualify for Psionic feats so take Psionic Shot and Fell Shot.

Quick Reconnoiter gets you a free action Spot and Listen check (plus a +2 bonus on Initiative checks) every round. Doesn't make them class skills but still, its quite helpful.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

In general, archery's a little rough in 3.5, since it runs into even more damage-scaling problems than the rest of mundane combat. Speaking from experience, making an archer can be really disappointing. While I'm not the type who needs to be the most powerful character in the party, it's lame when the only epic thing about the Epic Master Archer you made is how useless she is. :smallwink: If you want to stay pretty "vanilla," I'd ask the DM if you can bring in a few feats from Pathfinder; even just Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat) (which is pretty much just power attack for bows) and Clustered Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat) can make a world of difference for an archer.

While mounted archery can be an attractive option, both in terms of flavor and the mechanical benefits, it has some huge drawbacks in the mechanics department. Basically, it mostly comes down to the fact that the things you fight will usually be able to hit the horse enough to kill it (a Balor has a fifty-fifty shot even if you roll a twenty on your ride check, for instance) because its HP will be woefully insufficient. To add insult to injury, if you try to mitigate either of these factors by pouring your hard-earned gold pieces into your mount's survival, your character's ability to kill stuff/stay alive will be greatly diminished.

If you do want to go the route of mounted archery, a horse might be somewhat more survivable at Ranger 20, but I still wouldn't really recommend it. Why? Because if you'll have more feats than you know what to do with, anyhow (and, as somebody said, you probably will), one of them might as well be Leadership. For one, you'll not only be able to get a much more survivable mount, but you can also get a mount which can fly, cast spells, or all sorts of other cool stuff. Better yet, your Awesome War Pegasus will come with its own bankroll that you can use to buy it items. If the DM thinks it's cheesy, you can just explain that it's one of the only ways to have a mount that isn't outright disadvantageous; you don't want the army of followers or anything, just a mount that doesn't eat up at least half your gold just to have even a slim chance surviving the first encounter. Also, consider being small (d6 is only going to be one less damage, on average, than a d8) so that you can ride a medium mount, just in case of dungeons or other cramped quarters where a large-sized creature might prove problematic.

The Ancestral Relic feat from The Book of Exalted Deeds is your best bet for enchanting your own bow, as someone else said. Basically, you choose a masterwork item (in this case, a bow) and you can effectively enchant it as you level up by paying the price of the enchantment and spending one day per 1,000 gp in meditation and prayer. Otherwise, even with Arcane Archer, I doubt you'll have a high enough caster level to meet the prerequisites for a lot of the enchantments you'll want by level 20. However, if a low CL isn't a problem and you are thinking about mounted archery, Leadership also has the advantage of being able to provide a mount with caster levels; you craft the arrows and your Rad Unicorn Buddy blesses them with his holy magic, yay teamwork!

[Bickerstaff]

Also, if you're in Pathfinder, a feat I like to use for archers is Clustered Shots (Not sure if we're allowed to link content from other sites here, even if it's OGL stuff, so I'll err on the side of safety).

It allows you to total your damage from a full attack (with a ranged weapon) before applying DR, which is very useful for archers.

[Alefiend]

One last thing for the "if you're using Pathfinder" stuff: You won't need a caster level for making magic bows and arrows if you have the Master Craftsman feat (which lets you take Craft Magic Arms and Armor).

You'll still need a wizard for any properties that require a specific spell, but you can make regular magic weapons all by yourself.

[A.A.King]

If you are taking "Guerilla Scout" Then I would consider taking your first two levels as Ranger, the first is to get Spot as a class skill once so that your maximum ranks at level 20 still is 23, something which should be doable because Guerilla Scout lowers the cost to 1 for when you go Fighter. The Second level of ranger is simply because the 19th level of Fighter gives you nothing were as the second level of ranger gives you Combat Style Archery, which allows you to treat Rapid Shot as a feat basically giving it to you as a bonus feat so that your Ranger 2 / Fighter 18 still has the same number of feats as a Fighter 20 would have

[Seharvepernfan]

I cannot suggest ranger any more strongly. Fighter is a huge waste as an archer. Every newbie to D&D thinks that you have to be a fighter to be "the best" with a given weapon (mainly due to the weapon specialization line), which is wrong, particularly with archers. Archers are going to want spot/listen/hide/move silently/climb/jump, probably tumble, and speed. There are several spells that couldn't hurt, too. Fighter does not deliver.

Ranger gives you bonus feats for archery, has all those skills as class skills (except tumble), gives you enough skill points to actually take them, has full Bab and Fort saves (as well as moderate HD), gets an animal buddy (to either guard you or serve as a mount), gets spells (that let you keep enemies at bay, summon defenders, enhance yourself, get places easier/quicker, and in your particular case: let you craft magic weapons), gets special stealth and tracking abilities, and nice bonuses against certain enemies.

The only thing fighter gives you that ranger doesn't is a few more feats (that you don't need, since ranger gives you enough to take all the PHB archery feats with a few feats left over), an extra point of attack bonus, 4 extra points of damage per hit (unless you're attacking a favored enemy, in which case less), tower shields (which you're not using), heavy armor (which you're likely not using, due to your high dex), and slightly higher HD (which you hopefully won't be using, as an archer).

Nobody is going to look at a high-level Fighter archer and conclusively deduct that he is a "better" archer than a high-level ranger archer.

I promise that you will have more fun as a ranger, and will fulfill your image of an "archer" better than the fighter will.

[limejuicepowder]

This might be more books than you can use, but if complete adventurer and complete scoundrel is available, I highly recommend scout 4/ranger 16 for a basic swift hunter build. As others have noted, rangers make pretty good archers, and with swift hunter you'd also gain the skirmish abilities of the scout (a nice boost in skills points too).

If these books aren't available, ranger is definitely the way to go. Fighter just doesn't get enough, especially considering the lack of good feats.

[Svata]

I agree with the Scout/Ranger idea, but suggest maybe throwing in a level of Dervish.

[Blackhawk748]

if your gonna be a ranged Fighter, which ive done, i recommend the feat Wild Cohort. It basically gets you a Druid animal companion that lvls up with you. Im playing a Barbarian who has a Smilodon that fights with him, very effective.

If you want a sweet mount i recommend a Dire Bat, a Drakkensteed, a Hippogriff, a Griffon, or the aforementioned Pegasus

[BowStreetRunner]

I agree with the Scout/Ranger idea, but suggest maybe throwing in a level of Dervish.

No offense, but a 1 or 2 level dip in Dervish accomplishes absolutely nothing for a scout/ranger archer build. Dervish dance is melee only, the dervish is all about Slashing weapons, and the fast movement doesn't stack with a scout's.

[Svata]

Forgot that was melee only... oops.

[Zubrowka74]

Arcane Archer is pretty meh in 3.5 if I recall correctly.

In PF at least you get some degree of caster advancement.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Wild Cohort actually gives you a better animal companion than ranger does, for what it's worth. I still recommend leadership for the phat lewt it gives your li'l buddy; magic items mean a lot in 3.5 and depending on which companion you choose, I don't even think wild cohort will give it any more HD.

[Blackhawk748]

Wild Cohort does advance HD it just doenst give them anything else that a druid gets

[Waker]

Others have covered many of the other issues with improving archery. But if you want to play a mundane archer, you might consider looking at the Battlesmith PrC from Races of Stone. It requires you to be a Dwarf, but it lets you craft magic armor and weapons without being a caster. You might also consider taking some of the item creation reduction feats from the Eberron Campaign Setting, like Legendary Artisan to reduce the time and cost of item creation.
Ask your DM if he's willing to waive Weapon Focus (Warhammer) and Craft (Weaponsmithing) in favor of archery related stuff.

[Ischtan]

You could take a look at the Peerless Archer class from Silver Marches. She has the ability to enchant arrows without being able to cast spells herself.