Consequences of too much money dumped into town. Need ideas

[TheDarkSaint]

Playgrounder DM's, I need some ideas.

My players are going to be coming back from their first dungeon crawl with wealth appropriate to level. However, this is far more money than most of them have ever seen or dealt with, as the town they are coming from is about 500 people and is fairly poor. (most of their eq was hand-me-downs)

They are going to be 3rd level by the time they return, so I'm looking at 2,700 gp for each character. They are all playing good guys and are very interested in putting money into the town, giving back to the community and what not.

I need ideas on logical consequences, both positive and negative, for such a huge influx of wealth into such a small community. You guys have any ideas?

[Big Fau]

Negatives: Inflation (dumping that much cash into a small town means the merchants can charge more for individual items in order to keep supply and demand in equilibrium), outside threat (creatures and people from outside the town would covet that much money, and may raid the town).

[Slipperychicken]

Depends on how the heroes are spending their cash.

[Lightlawbliss]

some people are going to be intelligent and invest it in some way (improving the family farm/business, building a town granary, pay off old dept, replace the wood walls and roof with something harder to burn...), some people are going to waist it (quit their job and live off of what others have handed them, get drunk often, gamble...), and some people will just hoard it (bury it under the old oak [yes, the one with all the yellow ribbons] or whatever)

edit: (thx for the correction, that's what I get for using auto complete)

[Kornaki]

If everyone in the town makes 1sp a day, then they're pulling down about 30 gold a year (and 1 sp per day IIRC is like the bare minimum a untrained ditch digger gets paid) - if you divide that 10000 gp amongst everyone in town evenly for whatever reason, then that's 20 gold a person which is less than a year's pay. Sure, it's incredibly significant given that they're just scraping by and now they have all this extra cash, but it's not like everyone would be able to up and retire.

[BowStreetRunner]

I recall reading about just such an occurrence in a small town in Britain back during the 1800s. A Privateer based out of the town came back after an amazingly successful voyage and the sailors were all mostly locals from that town.

About a dozen different 'mega-churches' appeared around town shortly afterward. The town had a large variety of religious beliefs and each of the faiths saw a huge influx in tithes, so all the churches made major improvements with the sudden influx of wealth. What had been simple wooden buildings were now sporting marble columns, gold-plated alters, stained-glass windows, and so on - each more ostentatious than the last.

Of course, this was in direct and striking contrast to the sudden boom in certain other local industries - notably drinking establishments, houses of prostitution, and gambling dens. As word traveled outward about the new-found wealth in the town, the population started to grow. It turned into something like one of the boom-towns of the American west. Some of the newcomers were workmen arrived to build improvements to the churches, taverns, and even the homes of the sailors themselves. Others were just drifters looking to cash in however they could and get their share.

It was an interesting time, to be certain. I think you would probably find lots of analogs among the list of boomtowns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomtown) throughout history.

[ArcturusV]

I think the bigger problem is... they're not really going to be able to unload the money. Least not in trade. I mean if it's such a poor village no one has anything to trade that's worth that much.

But of course the other problem is drawing government attention. With that much money flooding into a poor town, someone is going to notice. The King's Men will probably come a taxin'. And Tax Collectors are not nice things to have hanging around a village like that. Might be a natural campaign hook into becoming anarchists.

[Rhynn]

If everyone in the town makes 1sp a day, then they're pulling down about 30 gold a year (and 1 sp per day IIRC is like the bare minimum a untrained ditch digger gets paid) - if you divide that 10000 gp amongst everyone in town evenly for whatever reason, then that's 20 gold a person which is less than a year's pay. Sure, it's incredibly significant given that they're just scraping by and now they have all this extra cash, but it's not like everyone would be able to up and retire.

Everyone in the town is unskilled labor? Huh?

Even if we assume that farmers are unskilled labor (a big if), a town is going to be largely craftspeople, with some porters, laborers, etc.).

Anyway, what are the PCs spending all this money on in a town of 500? Can't be that much of interest to them. Is it even a lot? What are the individual and total GP limits for the town?

Most likely the PCs are going to be dumping money into specific merchants, anyway; that's not really going to increase prices, because most people aren't going to have more money to spend.

Besides, the town isn't an economy, it's part of an economy, and 2,700 gp per PC is going to be a drop in a bucket in that economy.

BowStreetRunner's scenario looks most likely. The ale & whores sector is likely to experience a boom, and that's about it.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unfortunately, exactly what effects such a massive increase in the community's wealth has will be largely dependent on the form that wealth takes and what they do with it once non-useable assets are liquidated.

If they come back with a pile of loot that's comprised of a handful of magical trinkets, logic says that a town that size would have little to no use for that wealth and either wouldn't or perhaps couldn't accept it until it was liquidated.

A town of 500 can only liquidate 2500gp worth of what the pc's consider unuseable assets, according to the DMG. If they actually ran right up against that limit it would probably ruin the handful of people that purchased those magic items unless they could take them to a larger community for resale in a reasonably short period of time. When they bring back the cash or trade-goods they get from those items and turn it around, they're likely to become major players in the town, but that's about it.

If the players cycle that 2500gp back into the community by building or upgrading communal or municipal structures they'll create a modest economic upswing for the community. In the case of building new communal structures, they may even generate a population increase, in the long-term, if those structures create new, long-term jobs to be filled and/or if they offer something desireable that other communities in the region don't offer; a new church to a popular god in the area for example. If they spend the same cash on boozing and wenching it'll still mean an upswing, it'll just be a much smaller one.

If they, instead, go to another, larger community to liquidate their entire loot pile and bring back the 6000 to 8000gp that results they could create a danger of causing inflation to outpace the community's rate of economic growth and creating an economic bubble that could kill the town when it bursts if it's a trading community. Farming communities could decline but would probably survive. However, as long as they funnel a significant portion of that to construction crews they bring back with them when building new structures for the community they increase the towns economic growth with a commensurate population growth and avoid that danger.

In any case, you're looking at a time frame best measured in seasons at the shortest and more likely measured in years or perhaps even decades.

In your place, I'd maybe have the town throw the party a festival in honor of the new building they've commissioned and leave the long-term economic impacts out of the game as extraneous to the fun of playing unless I was trying to maintain an organic world over several seperate campaigns.

Edit: BTW, I'm not an economist. This is mostly just educated guesswork on my part but -I think- it's reasonably accurate.

[Alefiend]

... building a town granny

I love this idea. Get a golemcrafter to make a kindly old lady the whole town can share!

[Emperor Tippy]

If they want to invest the money in the town you can make it a whole plot line.

For example, they do a quest for the King/local potentate in exchange for being made Lord over the area.

Then they invest/build a church and set up a fund to pay an annual salary to a cleric or the like to come and move in.

Maybe they get a wizard or two to move in by sponsoring them.

Or hirer a few fighters/rangers/monks as mercenaries/town guards/caravan guards.

As the PC's increase in level their town becomes more and more well off and important as a direct consequence of the PC's actions and investments.

Lots of great potential plot hooks.

[TroubleBrewing]

If they want to invest the money in the town you can make it a whole plot line.

For example, they do a quest for the King/local potentate in exchange for being made Lord over the area.

Then they invest/build a church and set up a fund to pay an annual salary to a cleric or the like to come and move in.

Maybe they get a wizard or two to move in by sponsoring them.

Or hirer a few fighters/rangers/monks as mercenaries/town guards/caravan guards.

As the PC's increase in level their town becomes more and more well off and important as a direct consequence of the PC's actions and investments.

Lots of great potential plot hooks.

You know, as much as I like your Tippyverse campaign for ideas, this is my favorite thing I've seen you post. You just gave me my next game.

[Clistenes]

Since they are such nice people, I guess they will invest the money into stuff people need: New wells and irrigation structures, granaries, tools, farm animals, a defensive wall, give money and food and homes to orphans, maybe even build a temple and convince a 1st level cleric to become the local priest/healer, or build a school and hire an expert to be the local teacher. They could even give grants to the smartest children so they can study at the capitol and become priests or bards or clerics.

They would have to buy lot of that stuff elsewhere.

[Rhynn]

If they want to invest the money in the town you can make it a whole plot line.

For example, they do a quest for the King/local potentate in exchange for being made Lord over the area.

Then they invest/build a church and set up a fund to pay an annual salary to a cleric or the like to come and move in.

Maybe they get a wizard or two to move in by sponsoring them.

Or hirer a few fighters/rangers/monks as mercenaries/town guards/caravan guards.

As the PC's increase in level their town becomes more and more well off and important as a direct consequence of the PC's actions and investments.

Lots of great potential plot hooks.

There's a whole D&D clone for this stuff (http://www.autarch.co/). :smallbiggrin:

[Captain Kablam]

Personal danger may be another thing the players may need to deal with. I'm not saying an entire village may be prone to skullduggery and thuggishness, but it doesn't take a genius to think "those folks got a lot of dough, I think I can take it. what's more, they're strangers, so they're not gonna get a lot of help if they come looking for their gold."

So yeah, with the scenario you just presented, the players may need to deal with some young punks trying to rip 'em off, because, adventurers or no, the young and stupid will always be young and stupid.

What may be worse however are innkeepers. These folks are home and business owners, family folk, which makes 'em craftier and all the more desperate. Poison works well enough, the better stuff being more expensive, but considering the pay off, expense may not be an issue. And before some jackass goes "But what about detect poison?", let's be honest, that spell only works when they think they're about to be poisoned, and no player really thinks that at an inn until it's too late. Plus the need for a save can be explained away by the inn keeper saying a line like "be careful, this wine is rather strong". Failing that, a knife to the throat in your sleep can mess up anyone's healthcare plans, regardless of level. And should anyone care to ask about where'd the heroes go and the sudden inn improvements, heroes don't stick around too long and they tend to spend a lot. That sounds like a perfect crime to me.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Personal danger may be another thing the players may need to deal with. I'm not saying an entire village may be prone to skullduggery and thuggishness, but it doesn't take a genius to think "those folks got a lot of dough, I think I can take it. what's more, they're strangers, so they're not gonna get a lot of help if they come looking for their gold."

So yeah, with the scenario you just presented, the players may need to deal with some young punks trying to rip 'em off, because, adventurers or no, the young and stupid will always be young and stupid.

What may be worse however are innkeepers. These folks are home and business owners, family folk, which makes 'em craftier and all the more desperate. Poison works well enough, the better stuff being more expensive, but considering the pay off, expense may not be an issue. And before some jackass goes "But what about detect poison?", let's be honest, that spell only works when they think they're about to be poisoned, and no player really thinks that at an inn until it's too late. Plus the need for a save can be explained away by the inn keeper saying a line like "be careful, this wine is rather strong". Failing that, a knife to the throat in your sleep can mess up anyone's healthcare plans, regardless of level. And should anyone care to ask about where'd the heroes go and the sudden inn improvements, heroes don't stick around too long and they tend to spend a lot. That sounds like a perfect crime to me.

Tell me, how stupid do you have to be to try to rob 4 grown men, 2 of whom are wearing heavy armor, one of whom is clearly a wielder of magic, and one of whom looks normal enough except for the bandolier of knives under his cloak, and all of whom are covered in the blood and gore of their last dozen battles when they walk back into town after expressly going out to solve some known problem spot in the area.

And being from the town, whose population is a meager 500, everybody knows them as a neighbor.

[Captain Kablam]

Tell me, how stupid do you have to be to try to rob 4 grown men, 2 of whom are wearing heavy armor, one of whom is clearly a wielder of magic, and one of whom looks normal enough except for the bandolier of knives under his cloak, and all of whom are covered in the blood and gore of their last dozen battles when they walk back into town after expressly going out to solve some known problem spot in the area.

Pretty god damned stupid, but I never said they were smart. Just young, stupid, desperate, crafty, and due to the scenario presented, poor and probably hungry. All the classic ingredients it takes to make a criminal, good motives or bad. Especially when the payoffs 10800gp over the normal 30gp a year the average villager pulls down. Wouldn't you agree?

[ArcturusV]

Didn't the OP say (Or highly imply) that the adventurers were local boys done good? I think something like about how the adventurers were also so poor all their starting equipment was hand me downs, etc.

[Spuddles]

I think the bigger problem is... they're not really going to be able to unload the money. Least not in trade. I mean if it's such a poor village no one has anything to trade that's worth that much.

Yeah, there may not be much to buy immediately, but the town trades with other places, so you can expect an influx of higher priced goods and skilled craftspersons, if markets are even a little free.

If it is relatively isolated and/or there are restrictions on people moving wealth around, then you might just cause massive inflation until the ogres show up to take all them shinies.


But of course the other problem is drawing government attention. With that much money flooding into a poor town, someone is going to notice. The King's Men will probably come a taxin'. And Tax Collectors are not nice things to have hanging around a village like that. Might be a natural campaign hook into becoming anarchists.

Depends on the rule of law in the territory. Existing tax law should probably already address that issue. In Britain, for instance, any buried treasure is auto-claimed by the Crown. I think Roald Dahl even wrote a short story about it.

In D&D, where there seems to be far more wealth buried underground and in crypts, etc., you'd expect most places to have measures in place to address this.


Pretty god damned stupid, but I never said they were smart. Just young, stupid, desperate, crafty, and due to the scenario presented, poor and probably hungry. All the classic ingredients it takes to make a criminal, good motives or bad. Especially when the payoffs 10800gp over the normal 30gp a year the average villager pulls down. Wouldn't you agree?

Ah yes, the "gritty" campaign, where everyone's an irrational, greedy *******. Often resembles real life a little more than is fun.

I can easily see an evil, ambitious cultist, operating a sleeper cell for his Dark Lord taking the opportunity to seize that wealth.

I love cultists :smallbiggrin:


[edit]
****in homonyms

[TheDarkSaint]

Some great ideas here guys. It's given me some food for thought.


The PC's, 6 of them, are all home grown and love their little hamlet and all of them are actually quite religious. I have a cleric of Pelor, a crusader of Pelor, a sorcerer who worships Pelor, a rouge (not a theif, more of a handyman), a dwarven fighter (none to bright) and a gnomish Bard.

The town is Oakhurst out of the Sunless Citadel and I've shrunk it a bit. They have interacted extensively with the NPC's and are sure the mayor (appointed by Baron Black) is the villain...because of his goatee.


The town has a small inn/shop, a blacksmith, chapel, a small building for a jail/drunk tank and houses for the people in town. Most of the population is far flung farmers who are barely getting buy because of the dust blown in from the Ashen Plane. It's grubby and pretty poor and most people work on a barter system.

The PC's have signaled intent to pour money into the town to help out the people who are starting to leave. You guys have given some good ideas on what a quick economic shot in the arm can do. I'm going to tie in the next module, The Forge of Fury with the production of Nephiliam (glassteeel) so the town can have a more serious economic impact.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Pretty god damned stupid, but I never said they were smart. Just young, stupid, desperate, crafty, and due to the scenario presented, poor and probably hungry. All the classic ingredients it takes to make a criminal, good motives or bad. Especially when the payoffs 10800gp over the normal 30gp a year the average villager pulls down. Wouldn't you agree?

At a certain point you cross the line between stupid and suicidal.

@Spuddles:

I may be misunderstanding here, but I wasn't aiming for gritty. When's the last time you heard a player mentioning his character getting any kind of bath other than a blood-bath?

If a DM wasn't particularly nice, he could probably have a town guard or three mistake the PC's for undead on first sight on account of them -never- washing the blood off. Not that I'd ever do such a thing. (again)

[Rhynn]

I may be misunderstanding here, but I wasn't aiming for gritty. When's the last time you heard a player mentioning his character getting any kind of bath other than a blood-bath?

Irrelevant, but this immediately made me think of Aces & Eights. Now there's a RPG where you're doing something wrong if no PC ever goes to get a bath...

[Spuddles]

At a certain point you cross the line between stupid and suicidal.

@Spuddles:

I may be misunderstanding here, but I wasn't aiming for gritty. When's the last time you heard a player mentioning his character getting any kind of bath other than a blood-bath?

If a DM wasn't particularly nice, he could probably have a town guard or three mistake the PC's for undead on first sight on account of them -never- washing the blood off. Not that I'd ever do such a thing. (again)

Erm, what?

[nedz]

If the PCs do splash their loot here and make the village wealthy then it is likely to attract bandits, or other assorted criminals, after they have left.

[Captain Kablam]

At a certain point you cross the line between stupid and suicidal.

I've always felt the two to be more conjoined twins than anything else. However, I fail to see the flaw in my reasoning. Are you saying that all people in an environment lacking necessities and means will not resort to violent and criminal tactics in order get what they want and/or need when an opportunity presents itself? Or, are you saying that people in a fantasy setting will not brave risks or almost certain death in order to see some sort of gain or reward?

PS: message me personally on this, I feel we're starting to rail road this thread. I'd take my own advice, but I'm new here, so I don't know crap.

[Captain Kablam]

PPS: I do find this to be a fun fencing match, by the way. :smallsmile:

[CaladanMoonblad]

@TheDarkSaint (OP)-

If your heroes want to make direct infrastructure improvements to the town, but want something more long term... check out Stronghold Builder's Guide, or at least bring it to your heroes' attention. Your heroes can build a keep to protect the town from military threat... or something else entirely...

There are numerous businesses that adventurers can invest in, such as a brewery - the initial construction job will make the locals who worked on the warehouse heavy in their purse, which will flow to improving their own properties and acquiring goods. Suddenly, the 2000 gp you used to buy 10 Stronghold Spaces of "Storage, Basic" is magnified in the community due to all the labor you have employed on your project. In addition, your brewery can invest in "Workspace" and employ a few full time brewers. Your brewery is buying rye and wheat to make ale, which you then sell to the local tavern, and to taverns in nearby communities. Plaster the heroes' symbol, and not only will the heroes be known for doing good deeds, but also for making a good pint.

So now, the 3,000 gold (2000 for storage, 1000 for 2 SS of "Work Space") is a business that buys barrels, wheat & rye, laborers and other raw materials, and exports Ale to not only the local community, but to many other communities. The other benefit is... some of that coin is going right back to the heroes when the locals are chugging it up. The heroes have actually improved the quality of life both quantitatively and qualitatively.

This is all basic economic theory from Smith's Wealth of Nations, but most of his more famous examples deals with the relationship between wool production in England and textile mills on the continent.

[Zubrowka74]

I love this idea. Get a golemcrafter to make a kindly old lady the whole town can share!

This kind of constructed granny ?

http://worms2d.info/images/8/8c/Oldwomanicon.png

[Fouredged Sword]

I would just wholesale steal the pathfinder rules for kingdoms. If the players wanted to build onto a community, crib the price in build points from the list (just be nice and say 1BP = 1000gp) of things they can build, read the effects said building may have on the kingdom. Apply rough translation of the effect on the community.

[Alefiend]

I would just wholesale steal the pathfinder rules for kingdoms. If the players wanted to build onto a community, crib the price in build points from the list (just be nice and say 1BP = 1000gp) of things they can build, read the effects said building may have on the kingdom. Apply rough translation of the effect on the community.

Funny you should mention this. Paizo just released Ultimate Campaigns, which covers pretty much everything the PCs can do that isn't actively adventuring. It's supposed to be very well written too, and thus one of those books that should be bought as opposed to cribbed from the PFSRD.

[Flickerdart]

I would not introduce inflation; D&D economics is too ridiculous to support it properly.

The easiest thing that they could do would be to commission better weapons and armour for the village militia. This is quick, helps with the issue of the village becoming a prime target for raiders, and gives the PCs a decently armed force they can ask to do something for them later on. The militia can also guard caravans to and from the village (which would be necessary for any sort of real development).

[GoodPilgrim]

I think there's such a variety of things that could happen that you could essentially have whatever fun with this you wanted. It provides a role-playing opportunity for the players in that, if they're all good and love this town so much, they'll be interested to hear what happens to it in the future.

Say they provide enough income to those folk in the town who are able to craft things for them which otherwise they would not have been able to afford the resources to do. Then say they donate some money to churches and the poor, etc. Enough philanthropy, and the town will be extremely grateful. Maybe even build a monument to them.

Now say that the influx of monies gives this town the means to produce more and faster. You may have to fudge some economics here, but in the name of good storytelling and role-play, who cares? Eventually some of the craftsmen level up, and the town attracts interest from others looking for work, perhaps even going up one town size.

Of course, this may attract more attention. The government may want more taxes, and surrounding monsters may want a piece of the wealth. Perhaps a powerful evil wizard sees this town as a bountiful source for his super-secret research and takes it over. Here the possibilities are endless, but ultimately, what if word of the town's misfortune came to the PCs? They might want to save it.

Or, maybe everything goes swimmingly, no problems happen, and the next time the PCs visit the town to find it grown much larger, the townspeople respond by granting them lordships and plots of land.

Explore the options. You've got a lot of them.