So what does the Snarl think about all this

[Lombard]

Couple philosophical questions about the Snarl...

We know that it's intelligent, and filled with hate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html).

Presumably it's self-aware then, right..? Which is why we see the eyes appear suddenly in the drawing.

I was reading back 411 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0411.html) and I was intrigued by the line "my uncle literally had the Snarl looking over his shoulder every day." Would it be unreasonable to think that the Snarl is not only intelligent and self-aware, but that it can observe the workings of the world through the rifts? If it could, the Snarl might know quite a bit about the plotline.

Who would the Snarl be rooting for? Would there be any way for it to exert influence in the world, even imprisoned as it is..?

[factotum]

I'm not sure we *do* know it's all that intelligent. We know it was getting "more intelligent" as it formed, but it was starting from zero, so that tells us nothing about where its intelligence ended up. It might have the brains of a particularly dopey poodle, for all we know!

Personally I don't believe the Snarl exists anyway--I think it's a cover for something else that happened back in the early days that the Gods don't want anyone to know about.

[Cronos988]

If the Snarl exists, it is a being of pure chaos. So it's "intelligence" might be something completely unlike what we usually call intelligent. In fact, while we are at philosophical questions, the big problem with the word "intelligence" is that it only refers to intelligence as we humans experience it, which makes it a relative term.

It would seem that a being like the snarl does not "think" or have any allegiances. Being made of chaos, it might not even be able to anticipate anything, because anticipation requires order. It probably exists only from moment to moment, and being "intelligent" simply means that it's attacks are not mindless, but somewhat sophisticated.

[Hopeless]

Possibly given what a certain elven mage's familiar saw its apparently giving its jailers the "bird" and created its own universe...:smalltongue:

[Ghosty]

What does the Snarl think about all of this? It depends on what kind of brane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_(M-theory)) it has...

I think the Order, and at least Xykon, will get up close and personal with it at the end of this book, and throughout most of the next one.

[Ebon_Drake]

Assuming we take Shojo's account as accurate, I got the impression that the Snarl was wild and animalistic, not particularly intelligent or even aware of anything beyond it's own hatred. It's mentioned that it couldn't comprehend what the gods were doing to imprison it, it might not even perceive reality in the same way as the rest of existence. I expect the Snarl wants to be free, but I'm not sure it would necessarily take an active interest in the schemes of mortals.

Mind you, it's not like anyone we know of has sat down with it for a quick chat so that could well be wrong. Plus, we don't know how it might have developed in the centuries since the world was formed...

[talkamancer]

What does the Snarl think about all of this? It depends on what kind of brane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_(M-theory)) it has...



Thats my groan quotient all filled up for the week.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Honestly, one of the first things to pop into my mind was to wonder if it took a page from the Singularity (PS238 version) and started working on the ultimate chocolate chip cookie recipe.

[Nymrod]

I think back in the day, the worshipers of the Greek pantheon realized they did not need their gods and their gods just died for lack of faith. Panicked that the same could happen to the rest, yet unable to affect the atheists whose understanding of the nature of the divine weakened the power of the gods, the other three pantheons just decided to trap them inside a new creation and went ahead and made a myth that had some element of truth so that if anyone dug deeply enough, they'd think the story was true.

Tiamat and Rat just lied to the Dark One imo. There is no such thing as evil god solidarity.

[BroomGuys]

I think back in the day, the worshipers of the Greek pantheon realized they did not need their gods and their gods just died for lack of faith. Panicked that the same could happen to the rest, yet unable to affect the atheists whose understanding of the nature of the divine weakened the power of the gods, the other three pantheons just decided to trap them inside a new creation and went ahead and made a myth that had some element of truth so that if anyone dug deeply enough, they'd think the story was true.

Tiamat and Rat just lied to the Dark One imo. There is no such thing as evil god solidarity.

For the Snarl to be a lie, though, that means Soon had to be in on it as well, in addition to (probably) the rest of the Order of the Scribble. I doubt that the Paladin who founded the Sapphire Guard was lying with that whole story about his wife dying from the rift in the Snarl's prison. I think there's much more to the story of the Snarl than we know, and some elements of it may be false, but I'm pretty sure the Snarl is actually real.

[factotum]

For the Snarl to be a lie, though, that means Soon had to be in on it as well, in addition to (probably) the rest of the Order of the Scribble.

No it doesn't. Apart from Soon's wife being killed in front of him (which doesn't have to have been done by the Snarl), there is only one possible place the Order of the Scribble could have got their information--from the Gods themselves. Who else was around at the time that they could ask? So, if the Gods are lying about the Snarl to each other, it's not a stretch to assume they'll lie to their worshippers about it as well.

[gerryq]

The Snarl may have chilled a bit over the centuries and become the god of its own little universe.

[CRtwenty]

The Snarl may have chilled a bit over the centuries and become the god of its own little universe.

This seems a likely possibility. It ate a whole universe as well as an entire pantheon's worth of divine energy. Being at a deific level of power already it wouldn't shock me too much if it used all those resources to build its own world inside of its prison.

[Nymrod]

This seems a likely possibility. It ate a whole universe as well as an entire pantheon's worth of divine energy. Being at a deific level of power already it wouldn't shock me too much if it used all those resources to build its own world inside of its prison.

Considering that it was born of frustration, maybe it wanted to create a world of true harmony?

[BroomGuys]

No it doesn't. Apart from Soon's wife being killed in front of him (which doesn't have to have been done by the Snarl), there is only one possible place the Order of the Scribble could have got their information--from the Gods themselves. Who else was around at the time that they could ask? So, if the Gods are lying about the Snarl to each other, it's not a stretch to assume they'll lie to their worshippers about it as well.

What, exactly, do you mean when you say that something other than the Snarl might have killed Soon's wife? Something reached out of the gate and killed her, and they are calling that creature the Snarl. The Snarl could be very different from what they think it is, but it still does exist.

Also, they did lose Kraagor while trying to seal one of the gates, and it seems safe to assume that the Snarl killed him.

[Voidhawk]

No it doesn't. Apart from Soon's wife being killed in front of him (which doesn't have to have been done by the Snarl), there is only one possible place the Order of the Scribble could have got their information--from the Gods themselves. Who else was around at the time that they could ask? So, if the Gods are lying about the Snarl to each other, it's not a stretch to assume they'll lie to their worshipers about it as well.

Here's a thought: perhaps the Order of the Scribble were wrong in what they thought happened to Soon' wife? Sure, she was grabbed by the Snarl and pulled screaming into the rift. And then afterwards, she was unable to be resurrected, allegedly because her soul was destroyed. But what if she wasn't dead at all?

Perhaps the Snarl pulled her through out of nothing more than curiosity. After all, something interesting had wandered in front of one of the only windows in its jail cell. Then it set her down on the planet Blackwing saw, completely out of contact with the OoTS verse, beyond the traditional reach of scrying and most other magic.

[Emanick]

Here's a thought: perhaps the Order of the Scribble were wrong in what they thought happened to Soon' wife? Sure, she was grabbed by the Snarl and pulled screaming into the rift. And then afterwards, she was unable to be resurrected, allegedly because her soul was destroyed. But what if she wasn't dead at all?

Perhaps the Snarl pulled her through out of nothing more than curiosity. After all, something interesting had wandered in front of one of the only windows in its jail cell. Then it set her down on the planet Blackwing saw, completely out of contact with the OoTS verse, beyond the traditional reach of scrying and most other magic.

But her body is lying right there, dead, when Soon finds her. So that can't be the case, unless Soon lied about that bit.

I mean, maybe the Snarl pulled Soon's wife's soul in through the rift without pulling her body through. But that seems unlikely to me, and we have no evidence of it.

[Bulldog Psion]

Here's a thought: perhaps the Order of the Scribble were wrong in what they thought happened to Soon' wife? Sure, she was grabbed by the Snarl and pulled screaming into the rift. And then afterwards, she was unable to be resurrected, allegedly because her soul was destroyed. But what if she wasn't dead at all?

Perhaps the Snarl pulled her through out of nothing more than curiosity. After all, something interesting had wandered in front of one of the only windows in its jail cell. Then it set her down on the planet Blackwing saw, completely out of contact with the OoTS verse, beyond the traditional reach of scrying and most other magic.

Interesting theory, except that unfortunately a pseudopod popped out and punched through her chest, leaving her corpse in Soon's arms. So she wasn't pulled in, she just died. Unless, of course, the account was fake.

[factotum]

What, exactly, do you mean when you say that something other than the Snarl might have killed Soon's wife? Something reached out of the gate and killed her, and they are calling that creature the Snarl. The Snarl could be very different from what they think it is, but it still does exist.


Soon saw *something* reach out of a rift and kill his wife. It might have been the Snarl. It might have been something that looked like the Snarl, but wasn't. It might even have been some evil God's minion sent to kill the first person who passed by so they could start spreading this Snarl story to cover up the real reason for the rifts. Who knows?

[Eloi]

Interesting theory, except that unfortunately a pseudopod popped out and punched through her chest, leaving her corpse in Soon's arms. So she wasn't pulled in, she just died. Unless, of course, the account was fake.

I think the Snarl used a form of Trap Essence. That's why she wasn't able to be resurrected despite a corpse being left behind (and that's also why a corpse was left behind in the first place). I always believe a form of Trap Essence was used on the entire first creation, and a miniature image of its form is being held within the Snarl's maw.