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Tormsskull
2006-12-05, 10:11 AM
Hey all,

So I have been toying with the idea of a totally new system as opposed to D&D 3.5. Currently the idea is to segregate characters based on different spheres of influence. Instead of having your basic classes, the system is set up with the 4 archetypes which vary for each sphere.

The spheres: Holy, Shadow, Order, Chaos, Balance

Holy:
Fighter: Paladin - Attack B, Defense B, Holy magic C, Special C.
Cleric: Cleric - Attack C, Defense B, Holy magic B, Special C.
Mage: Divinate - Attack D, Defense D, Holy magic A, Special B.
Rogue: Missionary - Attack C, Defense C, Holy magic D, Special A.

Shadow:
Fighter: Deathknight - Attack B, Defense B, Shadow magic C, Special C.
Cleric: Thrall - Attack C, Defense C, Shadow magic B, Special B.
Mage: Necromancer - Attack D, Defense D, Shadow magic A, Special C.
Rogue: Assassin - Attack C, Defense C, Shadow magic C, Special B.

Order:
Fighter: Knight - Attack C, Defense A, Order magic D, Special C
Cleric: Crusader - Attack C, Defense B, Order magic B, Special C
Mage: Wizard - Attack D, Defense D, Order magic A, Special B
Rogue: Trapfinder - Attack D, Defense C, Order magic B, Special B

Chaos:
Fighter: Barbarian - Attack A, Defense C, chaos magic E, Special B
Cleric: Extremist - Attack C, Defense C, chaos magic B, Special B
Mage: Wild Mage - Attack C, Defense D, chaos magic A, Special C
Rogue: Thug - Attack B, Defense C, chaos magic D, Special B

Balance:
Fighter: Ranger - Attack B, Defense C, Balance magic C, Special B
Cleric: Druid - Attack C, Defense C, Balance magic B, Special B
Mage: Elementalist - Attack D, Defense D, Balance magic A, Special B
Rogue: Scout - Attack C, Defense D, Balance magic C, Special A

The classes abilities are ranked, A - best, B- better than average, C- average, D - worse than average, E- horrible.

Ok, so the idea is that there are the 5 spheres and every class is built of one of the spheres. Each class can then be customized by selecting skills from a list. All of the skills (expect magics) are on the list for every class (giving a lot of customization) but cost more depending on how relative they are for the particular class. Every skill falls under one of the categories (attack, defense, magic, special).

For example:
Skill Type Rank:
Skill Name: A B C D E
Increased Chance to Hit(atk) 3 5 7 9 11
Plague(shadow magic) 2 3 4 5 6
etc.

I'm still working out the details, but I figured I'd post this to see if anyone had any feedback to offer so far. Sorry about the formatting of the pseduo-tables, I know the forums alter them.

Mauril Everleaf
2006-12-05, 11:40 AM
Its a good thought, but seems like one plane of hell of a lot of work to do. you realize that you are going to have to restructure every spell, rework alignment (if you plan on keeping it), decide what happens when someone acts outside their sphere, add new skills and feats, remove some skills and feats, redistribute alignment, and this is all for just the character classes. You are then going to have to do all of this and more for every monster that you ever might use from any of the monster manuals. This is not to discourage you from taking on this endeavor. far from it. i encourage you to do so, i would like to see what it turns out like. and i would be willing to help beta test it if you need. just let me know.

Logic
2006-12-05, 11:49 AM
This system probably works as you begining your own version of a D20 game.
Since you have to almost that much work just converting stuff anyway...

Grey Knight
2006-12-05, 12:09 PM
This looks pretty interesting to me, actually. I hope you keep us updated as you work on it.

I made ze tables:


Holy:
{table=head]Class type | Class | Attack | Defense | Magic | Special

Fighter | Paladin |
B |
B |
Holy C |
C

Cleric | Cleric |
C |
B |
Holy B |
C

Mage | Divinate |
D |
D |
Holy A |
B

Rogue | Missionary |
C |
C |
Holy D |
A

[/table]

Shadow:
{table=head]Class type | Class | Attack | Defense | Magic | Special

Fighter | Deathknight |
B |
B |
Shadow C |
C

Cleric | Thrall |
C |
C |
Shadow B |
B

Mage | Necromancer |
D |
D |
Shadow A |
C

Rogue | Assassin |
C |
C |
Shadow C |
B

[/table]

Order:
{table=head]Class type | Class | Attack | Defense | Magic | Special

Fighter | Knight |
C |
A |
Order D |
C

Cleric | Crusader |
C |
B |
Order B |
C

Mage | Wizard |
D |
D |
Order A |
B

Rogue | Trapfinder |
D |
C |
Order B |
B

[/table]

Chaos:
{table=head]Class type | Class | Attack | Defense | Magic | Special

Fighter | Barbarian |
A |
C |
Chaos E |
B

Cleric | Extremist |
C |
C |
Chaos B |
B

Mage | Wild Mage |
C |
D |
Chaos A |
C

Rogue | Thug |
B |
C |
Chaos D |
B

[/table]

Balance:
{table=head]Class type | Class | Attack | Defense | Magic | Special

Fighter | Ranger |
B |
C |
Balance C |
B

Cleric | Druid |
C |
C |
Balance B |
B

Mage | Elementalist |
D |
D |
Balance A |
B

Rogue | Scout |
C |
D |
Balance C |
A

[/table]

Skill Type Rank:
{table=head] Skill |
A |
B |
C |
D |
E

Increased Chance to Hit (atk) |
3 |
5 |
7 |
9 |
11

Plague (shadow magic) |
2 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
6

[/table]

The_Ferg
2006-12-05, 12:43 PM
Seems good, at first, but where's the bard?

Tormsskull
2006-12-05, 01:21 PM
Mauril Everleaf
Thanks very much. I know it will be a lot of work, but I have been working on a few different systems for like 10 years so I figure it is time to actually buckle down and push one out. As I get closer to completion I'm sure I'll need testers, I'll have to track you down at that time :)

Logic
Yeah, except it is not D20. Its basically D100 (which admitedly is based off of D20 but has a lot of differences).

Grey Knight
Thanks! Now I just need to figure out how to make those tables so I can show some more beta stuff. Where can I read about how to construct tables?

The_Ferg
There is no bard. But, the reason for that is simple. A player starts with an archetype that already has some special mechanics & flavor behind it, and then customizes it to their tastes. Some bard-like skills will appear in the list of things to pick, so you could make a sorta bard as any of the other classes. Of course most of a bard's skills would be "Special" under this system, so a player would want to pick one of the classes that has a good rank in special. Next would probably be magic, so they'd want to try to have a decent magic rank too.

Grey Knight
2006-12-05, 02:32 PM
Where can I read about how to construct tables?


This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26660) is your one-stop shop for table info.

Yakk
2006-12-05, 02:37 PM
Might I propose a different set of spheres?

Holy
Humanity
Death
Elemental
Nature

They line up, mostly, with your existing spheres -- but the spheres are less alignment, and more "sources of power". This means someone can support a given sphere and still feel that they are good. Death is a bit shady, but without death there is no life...

"Before the rise of man, the universe was divided into 4 parts.
Holy, Death, the Elements and Nature.

Death and Nature opposed.
Holy and the Elements opposed.

all was good. Then came Humanity, and the balance was torn asunder."

...

Humanity stole power from both Nature and the Elemental powers to fuel it's rise. It existed in the realm between the Holy angels and the domain of death.

Human Expert: Bard
Human Warrior: Fighter
Human Arcane: Wizard

Holy Expert: Psionic
Holy Warrior: Paladin
Holy Arcane: Cleric

Elemental Warrior: Dragon Blooded
Elemental Arcane: Summoner
Elemental Expert: Alchemist

Nature Warrior: Berzkerer
Nature Arcane: Druid
Nature Expert: Ranger

Death Warrior: Abomination
Death Arcane: Necromancer
Death Expert: Assasin

...

Each of the Spheres has faction implications. Your sphere determines where you draw your power from -- and if you piss it off, you can run into power shortages.

By reducing the number of "class archtypes" to 3, I think I got rid of some of the weaker classes.

"Abomination" can either be a deathknight (which I find boring -- just a shadow paladin), or someone whose very body is built out of corpses (a much cooler death knight to me...).

Tormsskull
2006-12-05, 03:45 PM
Grey Knight
Thanks again!

Wow, these tables are very picky. A little spacing mistake and they jump all over you. Ok, so here is a sample of some of the types of skills I am talking about:

{table="head"]Skill Name| Skill Type | Skill Requirements| Skill Description | Cost By Rank

Attack | A | - | +3% to Attack | A:3, B:4, C:5, D:6, E:7
Dodge | D | - | +1% to Dodge | A:2, B:3, C:4, D:5, E:6
Assassinate | S | (5) Sneak Attack | SA-4 + SoD | A:6, B:9, C:12, D:15, E:18
[/table]

Yakk
I see where you are going, but the current names of the spheres are supposed to be like alignment. There will be no alignments in the game, but these spheres provide a sort of structure.

Currently, anyone can be from any sphere and still be good. Shadow sounds sort of dark, but thats supposed to be what it represents. If a particular GM wants shadow-sphered people to all be evil then they can make that distinction but that's not really what I am going for.

With your axis I don't see how Holy is the counterpart of Elements, nor the other. With my spheres Order - Chaos, Holy - Shadow, and then Balance is by its self.

As far as the deathknight that I am working on, it will not simply be a shadow paladin. Plus, I don't see how if you made it to be a person whos body is built from actual corpses you could still retain the idea that they are good.

I'm seeing the current set up I have as being the evolution of a typical fantasy world. Each sphere might control a certain part of the world, or a city might host members of all of the spheres. It really depends on the kind of world that the GM wants to create.