OOTS #895 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Ionbound]

Well, Roy's reaction doesn't bode well.

[Silverbit]

This could be interesting...

[Bulhakov]

(Scrubbed)

[AstralFire]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Roy was informed that destroying the gates was a bad thing, no?

[Mammal]

So Roy's going to pull a Miko?

I suppose that's a viable option.

EDIT: I guess it's the logical thing to do. You need a hell of a lot stronger force than what they've got to hold the gate against the Linear Guild AND Team Evil. At least the bad guys won't get their hands on it.

[Psyren]

Dammit Malack, I'm trying to hate you.

Roy doesn't have much time before the lizgreaper comes back with his real boss after Nale's failure though. Get cracking Roy.

Now to lay odds that he won't be able to smash it before Xykon shows up...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Roy was informed that destroying the gates was a bad thing, no?

He was also informed that it was slightly less of a bad thing than letting them fall into enemy hands.

EDIT: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html) we have Hinjo saying it's better to break them than let Xykon capture them.

[k_bukie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Roy was informed that destroying the gates was a bad thing, no?

Letting it fall to Xykon is a worse thing, though.

And the party is in no condition to fight both the Linear Guild and Xykon, so the best course of action is to destroy it and regroup.

[Emmit Svenson]

Malack can't just be acting out of pique by not revealing the OotS.

Compassion for his new spawn, perhaps--when Durkon is released from thrall, Malack can give him the option of trying to reconcile with old friends, or killing them himself.

Ace in the hole against more important (to him) enemies, like Nale, perhaps. Malack's Sense Motive may not be the best--he didn't figure out the association between Durkon and the rest as quickly as Tarquin did--but he's got to realize Nale's building a plan to backstab him before he backstabs Nale.

[Conte_Vincero]

Next pannel: Hold Person

[Xervous]

I'm still wondering, is this really the gate and not a triple bluff?

And @ malack, just what we needed, more confusing actions provoking guesses about more hidden motives.

[McNum]

Oh, sure, leave it to the Fighter to suggest pummeling the problem into submission. :smalltongue:

On the other hand, what options do they have? Xykon is incoming, Tarquin is at the exit, and Nale just left the room. There are way too many badguys in the area to leave it around.

[B. Dandelion]

I wonder -- Is Roy destroying the Gate compatible with the prophecy that Xykon will be within range of the Gate?

Oh! I sorta guessed something!


Random theory: maybe the sending is to Haley because they had tried to send to Roy before and he wasn't responsive (still caught in the illusion). So now they're trying the other members of the Order.

(Which would be a bad sign, because it would put even more time in between Xykon's departure and the Order's forewarning.)

Yay me!

[Killer Angel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Roy was informed that destroying the gates was a bad thing, no?

it only weakens the fabric of the universe. :smallwink:

[mattie_p]

Congratulations to all those who predicted Malack would ignore the OOTS, as well as those who predicted lead sheeting.

So Roy will destroy the gate, hrm? Interesting way of guarding something.

[Edhelras]

NOW it's time for a Dun dun dun!!

But I wonder if Malack actually guessed about the lead sheet, judging from his dubious look in the former strip. Is he actively, secretly, working against Nale, now?

[SaintRidley]

Well, Roy, that works.

[Ruduen]

The problem with destroying the gate right now is the inevitable explosion. Unless this gate also has a self-destruct mechanism, most of the people around will be in range, and I doubt most of them would be able to survive. Haley might due to evasion, but past that...

[pasta]

I wonder if they'll get the chance to destroy it before Xykon comes knockin' ...

[Cifer]

@Bulhakov

I don't understand why Nale's party gave up so easily, without physically inspecting the stone block.
Same reason why Roy's dad would have fallen for it: Magic is powerful, magic can do everything. If magic says it's not there, it isn't. Take a look at how gleeful he was when he got to command a full spellcaster party.
Also, I think by now he on some level expects his plans to fail - which is how he got out of the phantasm, as you may recall.

[AstralFire]

Oh, sure, leave it to the Fighter to suggest pummeling the problem into submission. :smalltongue:

On the other hand, what options do they have? Xykon is incoming, Tarquin is at the exit, and Nale just left the room. There are way too many badguys in the area to leave it around.

Batman: Ingenious.
Superman: Yeah, I'm impressed. Let's go wreck it.

[Lord Torath]

Yes! Putting those cross-class ranks in Knowledge-Architecture and Engineering to work again! Go Roy!

Now to figure out how to destroy the gate without killing himself...

[Agnostik]

And @ malack, just what we needed, more confusing actions provoking guesses about more hidden motives.
Durkon asked Malack to spare the rest of OOTS. He's probably doing just that.

[CoffeeIncluded]

...Well. Looks like a lot of us were right. I felt it was going to come to this too. And almost in time for #900 too, hrm. :smallamused:

Of course, the next question is: How is the group going to avoid getting killed? Looks like this may finally be it for Belkar.

[pendell]

*Applause* . Started a new thread to ask just what Malack's game is.

At any rate, the book is rushing to its denouement and I'm on the edge of my seat.

ETA: And glad to see Roy's knowledge of architecture does indeed come in handy again.

E AGAIN TA: And an elegant call back to 894 when Malack cast true seeing, thus allowing him to penetrate Elan's illusion.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Mike Havran]

Roy maybe doesn't remember exactly what happened when somebody shattered the last gate because he had already managed to get himself killed by that point, but Haley might remember that destroying a gate without a legitimate means of escape (read: teleport) or O-Chul's toughness is a bad idea.

Also, why is Haley calling it double-bluff? It's just a bluff.

[Kurald Galain]

Good to see that evil is still One Big Happy Family :smallamused:


I don't understand why Nale's party gave up so easily, without physically inspecting the stone block.
Because Nale doesn't have cross-class ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering). Nice foreshadow there, too.

[Liliet]

Wow, I was in half the forum that called double-bluff!
If it is not triple-bluff...

Also, I thought so that Malack would ignore them.

But I hoped that the Sending was not late )= And this bad news is worth all the rest )=

I wonder how exactly the group of non-casters is going to destroy the gate. Dorukan was so kind as to attach a mechanism, but I doubt Girard would do it. Sword was enough for Azure city gate, however, so they might manage it...

If it`s not triple-bluff.

[SN137]

it only weakens the fabric of the universe.
Wasn't the gods only reason for not destroying the world and remaking it because the gates were in place ? Couldn't destroying it, there then being only one gate holding a deicidal monster imprisoned , be enough to make them decide to destroy the world ? Didn't Shojo say that in the crayon story or something ?

[Prospero7]

Dammit Malack, I'm trying to hate you.

Ditto! Now if Malack will only kill Nale my conversion will be complete... :smallsmile:

[TRH]

You know, if Roy's sword wasn't magic, then using it as a sledgehammer like that would have done a real number on it; they're not designed for that kind of job. That said, with the Linear Guild out of the room, I think we have to assume that either Xykon will burst in before Roy can finish the job, or else a demon-possessed V will. After all, who else is there to prevent an anti-climactic ending here?

[Coldwind]

Well, this is not a brilliant idea I guess. I mean, destroying it.

[Burner28]

Great strip!

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Kriel]

And once again, Nale, you fail to grasp the concept of "elegance in simplicity". I almost get the feeling that Malack knew what Girard was up to and simply didn't suggest it to Nale out of spite.

Also, I think Roy has the right idea. Destroying the Gate is preferable to risking anyone from any of the Team Evils flat-out releasing the Snarl, either by accident or on purpose.

[Ionbound]

Wow, I was in half the forum that called double-bluff!
If it is not triple-bluff...

Also, I thought so that Malack would ignore them.

But I hoped that the Sending was not late )= And this bad news is worth all the rest )=

I wonder how exactly the group of non-casters is going to destroy the gate. Dorukan was so kind as to attach a mechanism, but I doubt Girard would do it. Sword was enough for Azure city gate, however, so they might manage it...

If it`s not triple-bluff.

It looks like all you have to do to destroy a gate is breach part of the seal and the rift will do the KRAKOOM for you. At least, that's what it looked like in Azure City.

[Cuthalion]

Well, this is not a brilliant idea I guess. I mean, destroying it.

What are they going to do with it? If both Tarquin, Team Evil, and the Linear Guild are trying to use it, it's worthless protecting it. It's in the middle of the desert, so once everybody's gone, the Snarl can't really do anything, and there's still another. If they can recruit the help of some other good guys of some sort or another, they'll be able to put up a bigger stand, I'd guess.

[pearl jam]

Nice! I hope they can find a way to destroy it before Xykon & Co. can interfere.

I wonder, as has been suggested already, if Belkar may die here to see the gate blown....?

[Cuthalion]

And once again, Nale, you fail to grasp the concept of "elegance in simplicity". I almost get the feeling that Malack knew what Girard was up to and simply didn't suggest it to Nale out of spite.

Also, I think Roy has the right idea. Destroying the Gate is preferable to risking anyone from any of the Team Evils flat-out releasing the Snarl, either by accident or on purpose.

I thought that last strip alone, by the way he was looking back.

[Tannhaeuser]

I must admit, that as Sydney Smith held back from Dickens, I held back rather from the present storyline; but like Smith, I have been conquered. Belkar’s remark is the funniest thing I have seen for months.

[talkamancer]

Stop supressing our rupture you electroresistive niche.

So funny, can just see Miko's face now.

Well played giant, well played.

[Neopolis]

Considering the last time this happened, an entire castle was blown to bits, and with a much smaller rift... Oh man, somebody's going to die.

[stench]

i seriously am in love with malack

also, why are his eyes black now as opposed to that light pink? is he adhered to only as a vampire now?

[Mike Havran]

i seriously am in love with malack

also, why are his eyes black now as opposed to that light pink? is he adhered to only as a vampire now?

It's the effect of his True seeing (Malack has dark grey spellcasting aura).

[King of Nowhere]

Totally called the message being a double bluff.
And, sadly, I have to agree with roy. they have no way to defend the gate against xykon, so they better hope the last one will hold.

I have to say it's impressive seeing roy smash through rock and metal like that.

[Chep]

Wasn't the gods only reason for not destroying the world and remaking it because the gates were in place ? Couldn't destroying it, there then being only one gate holding a deicidal monster imprisoned , be enough to make them decide to destroy the world ? Didn't Shojo say that in the crayon story or something ?

No, remaking the prison of the snarl would mean unmaking the world, thus "killing" every creature in it.
The gates were built to a) stop the snarl from spreading any further, which might ultimately destroy this world as well and b) so no one interferes with the snarl (the first ones to stumble onto its rifts died)

[Tragak]

Stop supressing our rupture you electroresistive niche.

So funny, can just see Miko's face now.

Well played giant, well played. Oh, the number of theories about how think the stone had to be to block divinations and THAT running gag was never mentioned! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[SlyJohnny]

Hmmm. It's a shame they can't destroy it without the explosion. If they could smash it on the sly and then sneak out, the LG and Team Evil might spend a ridiculous amount of time looking for something that isn't there. How long would you spend looking for something important you knew for sure was in the area and had been concealed by a master illusionist?

Roy's decision took me by surprise, but it does make sense. The way things are going right now, they're going to lose the gate no matter what they do. The problem I forsee is that going for the last gate doesn't actually tip the odds back in their favour; Tarquin will track his flying carpet just as easily as he did before, and they'll lead him right to it. Even if they think that now is the time to be appropriately paranoid about that, they havn't got their spellcasters to hand.

Though I suppose they're working off of incomplete information in that they don't know about Team Evil's extraplanar sidetrip, and their primary concern is that Xykon is going to materialize any minute.

[Gift Jeraff]

Lirian's Gate was larger than Soon's Gate, but its explosion didn't harm anyone who was close to it, so I wonder what will happen here.

[FolcoTook]

i seriously am in love with malack

also, why are his eyes black now as opposed to that light pink? is he adhered to only as a vampire now?

It's his True Seeing spell effect.

Darn forum ninjas! :P

[attriel]

More and more I'm seeing the Order of the Stick ending up taking up for the the Order of the Scribble.

No clue how they'll do the sealing of the rifts thing, since V is the only spellcaster, but I can otherwise see them doing it. Roy gets pissed at Belkar, "It should have been you!!!", the group disbands yadda yadda.

Haley takes over Girard's gate (dad's in the desert area)
Roy takes up Soon's
Belkar redoes Kraagor's gate, but in-residence
V rebuilds Dorukan's magic labyrinth
and Elan makes a new gate at Lirian's (they're both peace-and-harmony so it kindof works), or makes it in Durkon's image (not sure where he gets the celestial's though ... maybe asks Thor for his friend's memory ... or calls on the great power of BANJO!!)

yeah, that lines up IMO.

[fluffybunny]

Haha, Roy must have taken Structural Engineering classes while doing his MBA at Fighters College!

So happy to see more updates! Hope your hand is healing properly!!!

[RMS Oceanic]

Roy's ranks in Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) serves him well once again! :smallsmile:

Also I had a feeling he might resort to this. After all there's a difference between losing and not winning, especially with that enforced three hour break. That said I suspect he won't get the chance to.

[Chaotic Queen]

As much as I love the call-back to Belkar's line to Miko, this time I don't get it.

[Syncrogti]

I love Belkar breaking the fourth wall by mentioning the end of the book. This one was great, thanks Giant!

[PaulTheSamurai]

"Belkar shush."

But I was thinking the same thing for the last couple of days. :)

Thank you Giant!

[Chaotic Queen]

More and more I'm seeing the Order of the Stick ending up taking up for the the Order of the Scribble.

No clue how they'll do the sealing of the rifts thing, since V is the only spellcaster, but I can otherwise see them doing it. Roy gets pissed at Belkar, "It should have been you!!!", the group disbands yadda yadda.

Haley takes over Girard's gate (dad's in the desert area)
Roy takes up Soon's
Belkar redoes Kraagor's gate, but in-residence
V rebuilds Dorukan's magic labyrinth
and Elan makes a new gate at Lirian's (they're both peace-and-harmony so it kindof works), or makes it in Durkon's image (not sure where he gets the celestial's though ... maybe asks Thor for his friend's memory ... or calls on the great power of BANJO!!)

yeah, that lines up IMO.

But Belkar can't take up one of the gates. At best he's got five weeks left on his clock.

[DaOldeWolf]

That makes me wonder. If Roy destroys the gate, the explosion made from its destruction will be enough to kill Belkar? :smalleek:

[SN137]

No, remaking the prison of the snarl would mean unmaking the world, thus "killing" every creature in it.
Right and the gods were willing to let the snarl keep growing until it became a danger to them . At which point they would have remade the prison (thus destroying the world)
So if there's only one gate being destroyed standing between their happy , not being killed , existence and the Snarl being freed (which they would regard as a threat to their existence , given that there would be a bunch of very powerful PC's fighting over the final one who have already destroyed the previous 4).... why can't they remake reality (thus destroying the world) to retrap the Snarl , and thus stop one of the PC's destroying it in a fight ?

[Shred-Bot]

Stop supressing our rupture you electroresistive niche.

So funny, can just see Miko's face now.

Well played giant, well played.

Giant must have been itching to use that line for a LONG time.

[Ivrytwr]

I wonder if the Oracle's prophecy also considers the gate after destruction?
Malack is going to drop (another) bombshell on Nale and/or our heroes, a biggie.

[RMS Oceanic]

As much as I love the call-back to Belkar's line to Miko, this time I don't get it.

Rupture - The Rift
Electroresistive - Lead's EM (and magic) Blocking properties
Niche - Both a highly specialised useful position and/or an architectural feature.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Oh, lead. We meet again. :smallbiggrin:

[OverdrivePrime]

That was just delightful. I love that the properties of Roy's starmetal sword are getting some use!

I'm seriously worried about them destroying the gate, but what choice to they have? Anything magical protection that V could whip up, Xykon can brush aside like old cobwebs.

However, team evil doesn't often show itself to be subtle. It's not a strength area of V's either, but Haley and Roy are. I have a feeling that there *must* be a good option available besides just 'break it and hope for the best.'

[Amphetryon]

Giant must have been itching to use that line for a LONG time.

Giant owes me a cup of coffee, to replace the one I spat all over the screen laughing at that particular referential joke. :smallwink:

[Tragak]

Giant owes me a cup of coffee, to replace the one I spat all over the screen laughing at that particular referential joke. :smallwink: Call me crazy, but I would think the new screen he owes you is more important :smallbiggrin:

[Harry Leipzig]

So it was the simple double-bluff. Simplistic, yet elegant. Hat tip, Girard. You were a paranoid fool, but you had style. :smallamused:

:smallconfused: So. Did Malack see them and let them go, or did he suspect the illusion, but dismiss it? Durkon did ask Malack to spare the Order, didn't he?

And why in the world does Roy want to destroy the gate? He does know that destroying all of the gates is a bad thing, right? Or does he think a destroyed gate is less problematic than a gate in the hands of Tarquin or Xykon?

[rgrekejin]

You know, I have this sneaking suspicion that Roy's not going to be allowed to complete the destruction of the game without some interference.

The only question is if it's going to be Xykon, V, Tarquin, or someone else who disrupts the operation...

[Chaotic Queen]

Rupture - The Rift
Electroresistive - Lead's EM (and magic) Blocking properties
Niche - Both a highly specialised useful position and/or an architectural feature.

Oh, I get it now. So Belkar was yelling at the lead, not at Roy. Thank you!

[hamishspence]

And why in the world does Roy want to destroy the gate? He does know that destroying all of the gates is a bad thing, right? Or does he think a destroyed gate is less problematic than a gate in the hands of Tarquin or Xykon?

That seems like the most likely reason.

[talkamancer]

:smallconfused: So. Did Malack see them and let them go, or did he suspect the illusion, but dismiss it? Durkon did ask Malack to spare the Order, didn't he?



I think we saw what Malack saw, so the viel with the order behind. He just chose to not reveal. Probably because in part of his promise to Durkon and in part to not help Nale.

[M.A.D]

Now isn't a good time for the fiends to interfere using V's body. Xykon is in the area, and even Darth V wasn't a match against him, let alone normal V. Also, they only have a bit more than an hour. Gotta make the best of it.

Then again, V must be separated for a reason, story-wise. I suppose whatever plan Tarquin had at the beginning would be used against Xykon instead of the OOTS, and then when one of them were about to seize the gate, they took a V to the knee :smallbiggrin:

[Yxylu]

I would not be surprised to see the second half of the second page (next comic) be the big explosion. Of course, I've learned not to try to guess too much, as I'm usually (happily) wrong.

One possible art error - in panel 9, it looks like Belkar's bite marks have gone away.

[DigoDragon]

Haha, I knew it! Good for you, Roy!

[Cikomyr]

@Bulhakov

Same reason why Roy's dad would have fallen for it: Magic is powerful, magic can do everything. If magic says it's not there, it isn't. Take a look at how gleeful he was when he got to command a full spellcaster party.
Also, I think by now he on some level expects his plans to fail - which is how he got out of the phantasm, as you may recall.

When did that happened?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ah, that was great.

Malak ignoring the OotS both to honor Durkon's request and to spite Nale... I really like Malak.

OotS IMMEDIATELY figuring out the trick, which makes Nale look even dumber than previously.

Lead sheet Belkar call back.

And Roy realizing how boned they are currently and doing the smart thing - toss the pieces off the chess board and prepare for the next game. Remains to be seen if he'll actually do so, of course. I doubt it, it's too quick and easy. And I still am positive Girard will be making some sort of appearance before this is over.
Considering the original guardian/creator of all the other gates has gotten directly involved thus far.

[Morty]

Not terribly surprising, really. The Order can't defend the Gate against Xykon once he shows up, and Roy knows it. Destroying it is marginally better than letting him control it. That is, if they can do it.

[mattie_p]

Stop supressing our rupture you electroresistive niche.

So funny, can just see Miko's face now.

Well played giant, well played.

Just throwing up a link to the comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html)

[Prospero7]

Tarquin is going to blow a gasket once Nale tells him what happened. A double-bluff seems to be the kind of possibility Tarquin would think of right away. :amused:

[attriel]

But Belkar can't take up one of the gates. At best he's got five weeks left on his clock.

There is that problem. Unless, as he said, "It should have been me! I should have died!", instead of Durkon

It's a stretch, and it kind of rests on the infallibility of the Oracle/mutability of future events ...

I also don't remember the exact quote, but if Belkar comes out a changed man, would that qualify? I know there was the line about "enjoy his next birthday cake", though ...

OK, yeah, it's unlikely and a stretch :o

[MReav]

Not terribly surprising, really. The Order can't defend the Gate against Xykon once he shows up, and Roy knows it. Destroying it is marginally better than letting him control it. That is, if they can do it.

The best they can do is wait for Xykon to appear, and try to blow up the Gate, hopefully taking Xykon out with them.


And that's a long shot.

[davidbofinger]

This theory is statistically unlikely to be true, still:


Evil forces arrive - including but not limited to Team Evil.
Roy destroys the gate.
The Snarl gets out and grabs some people, including Belkar and someone who the order wants badly to die, whose death isn't a story-breaker (e.g. Durkula).
Belkar allows himself to be unmade, rather than allow said person to escape (analogy with Kragor).
Belkar gets a chance to say some cool things as he's being dismantled into string.


There are problems with this idea. For instance, we need Durkula alive a while longer so he can devastate the Dwarven lands. But something broadly like this?

I do think we need to see the snarl do something. It's the last gate that can safely be destroyed, and we need to be shown just how nasty it would be if it got loose. So in a way this is the last chance for the snarl to strut its stuff.

[Jay R]

I don't understand why Nale's party gave up so easily, without physically inspecting the stone block.

Nale's party didn't give up too easily; Nale did. Why?

:vaarsuvius:: Well, surely you must realize that Nale's stratagems to date have been tedious, unoriginal, and lacking in any true insight. For a self-proclaimed "evil genius", his schemes have certainly not required any great intellect in their conception. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html)


NOW it's time for a Dun dun dun!!

But I wonder if Malack actually guessed about the lead sheet, judging from his dubious look in the former strip. Is he actively, secretly, working against Nale, now?

"secretly"? For the past several years, Malack, Tarquin and the rest of their party have been working for putative leaders for the express purpose of using them and then betraying them.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png : This is business, Malack. Business. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0822.html)

[Cerlis]

Roy maybe doesn't remember exactly what happened when somebody shattered the last gate because he had already managed to get himself killed by that point, but Haley might remember that destroying a gate without a legitimate means of escape (read: teleport) or O-Chul's toughness is a bad idea.

Also, why is Haley calling it double-bluff? It's just a bluff.

Girard originally told soon it was in the desert, a bluff. Then he said it wasn't there in the desert, and enforced that second bluff with the pyramid dungeon of Guarding.

2 lies makes a double bluff.

the key to a double bluff is that once you admit you are lying, people assume the next thing you say is going to be the truth 'oh ok, i guess i'll tell you". and that is exactly what happened.

[StreamOfTheSky]

That makes me wonder. If Roy destroys the gate, the explosion made from its destruction will be enough to kill Belkar? :smalleek:

Belkar does have Evasion. It just oddly doesn't seem to work nearly as often as Haley's despite Belkar also having a good reflex base save and presumably high dex for TWF related feats. Yeah, the base ones he gets w/o pre-reqs, but there are others, and also... you don't dump stat all three mental scores without those points going somewhere, and he has racial +2 dex.

[Tygros]

I love the way this story is going! I wonder if Roy wouldn't have been wiser just to leave the gate encased in stone than to try to destroy it. I guess it's too much of a risk to assume Xykon or Redcloak wouldn't figure it out.

Also I don't think it's spite that kept Malack from telling Nale to take his time and investigate the stone, just caution. I figure he'd rather consult with Tarquin about what to do with the gate now that they are more sure of its location and accessibility. As for why he didn't alert the party to the Order standing in the corner I think it's harder to say. If Malack is anything he is calculating and rational. It could be that he is granting Durkon his dying wish, but he strongly urged Belkar to gather his allies and leave, calling the mercy his "final token to the Durkon that was." I think, having left them alone, he must hold one of two beliefs. That he, Durkon and the LG could not defeat the Order (ridiculous), or that the Order entering the chamber and discovering the pillar does not act in opposition to any of the plans he and Tarquin have laid out.

Random guesses for the future:



1: After the destruction of this gate, however it may come about, Tarquin and Malak join the race against the Order and Team Evil for the dwarf gate. Durkon returns to his homeland as a vampire; ie. posthumously, fulfilling the prophecy and then is somehow returned to his old self and takes his place in the Order for the happy ending.

2: Tarquin has an army marching on the gate

[Hircine]

Hmmm. This is the first time I knew what was going to happen in the next strip. Of course it could still be a triple bluff.

[RMS Oceanic]

Okay, prediction:

At least the next half of 895/896 will be Roy justifying his decision. However he's interrupted by one of:

-Vaarsuvius, having finally caught up
-Xykon, Epic Teleporting onto the exact spot
-Tarquin, who is now deploying his "surprise", and he was the one following the protagonists, not Nale.

Not very creative, but I think it's valid.

[Ezekiel]

Very well done strip Giant!! I'm looking forward to when Nale & company meet up with Tarquin again. Maybe Malack's & Tarquin's "business" with Nale is concluded? :smallamused:

[Mido]

Ah, Lawful Evil, my most favorite of the evil alignments. :smallwink:

All things considered, Roy's choice in plans may be well founded. With Xykon on the move, Nale's/Tarquin's party still out and about and their warband diminished to paltry magical implements, brawn, and skills, destroying the gate and hoping to rebuild it later may be the best option. Better be damned by your own terms than have the villains have ultimate victory.

Aw man, 5 more strips till 900. I just can't shake the feeling that we're in for a huge gotcha moment in the next few strips. :smalleek:

[HalfTangible]

Belkar's wounds disappear in one panel.

[Cifer]

When did that happened?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html

[Saturosian]

:roy: That's how I use my Intelligence score in combat. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html)

It's good to see Roy putting those ranks in knowledge (architecture and engineering) to good use.

[Cikomyr]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html

Oh. The way he structured his sentence, I thought he was talking about Roy's father commanding a full-spellcaster party.

[ORione]

Also, why is Haley calling it double-bluff? It's just a bluff.

Setting up a bunch of traps and illusions to protect an area that doesn't have a gate would be a single bluff.

Setting up a bunch of traps and illusions to protect an area that has the gate, but then you claim it doesn't, is a double bluff.

[talkamancer]

Who's next in the room ? Tarquin or Xykon ? Or Thog ?

[Sir_Leorik]

I love the double entendre in the title to strip #895: The OotS are hiding in "plain sight" of Malack, whose true seeing spell is still active, and Girard's Gate is hiding in "plain sight" beneath concrete and lead sheeting!

[skaddix]

Since the gate explodes when u break it I see two options Vs patented explosive runes or them leaving someone like Belkar behind to smash the gate right when the LG or Team Evil enters the room

[Kish]

you don't dump stat all three mental scores without those points going somewhere,
Sure you do, if the dice didn't like you.

Mind you, I don't think Belkar did; I think he probably has a Strength in the 20s and hashad until Malack and Durkon drank it all up quite a high Constitution. A better example of someone whose dice really didn't like him/her is Vaarsuvius, who seems to have an 18 Intelligence and everything else in one digit.

Since the gate explodes when u break it I see two options Vs patented explosive runes or them leaving someone like Belkar behind to smash the gate right when the LG or Team Evil enters the room
I...don't see anyone there going along with, "Okay, Belkar, have a nice death!" Not mourn if he gets waxed by Xykon? Sure. Be happy about a prophecy stating he'll be dead soon? Certainly. Deliberately sacrifice him? No. All other considerations aside, there's Catch-22 to consider: If he'd go along with it, it would prove he didn't deserve it.

[deimos3428]

Does anybody else get the feeling that we, the audience, are still trapped in the illusion? We keep seeing pretty much whatever we want to see and/or predict will happen.

[Komodo]

Ah...sweet closure.

I have a question, though (Not rule related): so they've found the gate, and apparently it is around the rift. Now, where exactly are "Girard's Buttcheeks?" Or was the mummy they were interrogating using a creative interpretation of the phrase "Girard's rift?"

[Raineh Daze]

I like this comic. All of this comic. :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

Ah...sweet closure.

I have a question, though (Not rule related): so they've found the gate, and apparently it is around the rift. Now, where exactly are "Girard's Buttcheeks?" Or was the mummy they were interrogating using a creative interpretation of the phrase "Girard's rift?"
Uh. Basic anatomy fail? Girard's buttcheeks were on Girard, and please don't ask where. "That's going to turn out to be some kind of a metaphor" was always a long shot; it is not something mysterious that needs to be explained that it turns out that, no, it was just--as Elan said--ass humor.

[Mammal]

Does anybody else get the feeling that we, the audience, are still trapped in the illusion? We keep seeing pretty much whatever we want to see and/or predict will happen.

We've almost reached the end of the arc. I feel like things are going to move fairly predictably until they get out of the pyramid. And there's still a lot of unknowns. Where is V? When will Belkar die? Will they recover Durkon? The answers to ALL the questions still in the air can't ALL be favorable.

[Ghost Nappa]

If V doesn't find them soon, V maybe in danger from the Gate's destruction. Maybe Belkar will perform a heroic sacrifice to try and save V and that's what does him in?

The multiple call-backs to Roy's Knowledge (Architecture) and Belkar Vs. Miko both made me laugh.

You would think that Nale would be suspicious of a Double Bluff since that's far more complicated than a Single Bluff but apparently not.

Belkar's wounds disappear in the ninth panel:
:belkar: : Oh come on! Are you friggin' kidding me? Again with the fake-out?? I'm going to flip out if we have to spend the whole next book looking for it again!

They come back in the panel where he makes the call-back quip to Miko, but not as severe as they were before and go back to being four-mark wounds in the last panel he's in (but he doesn't do anything there).

Also, Malack keeping his promises! (Hey if it helps the good guys win...!)

[Kancsar]

I'm thinking about how the OOtS get out after they blow the Gate. even if V was there, V can't cast teleport (explicitly noted by Tarquin in the past) and has already used pass wall at least once this "day". Haley might have a scroll she can use magic device on, like the bounty hunters (maybe even pick-pocketed from the bounty hunters), a highly likely thing to possess in an actual game (for what little thats worth). But revealing possession of a scroll better happen right now, or it will seems like a deus ex machina (vellum ex machina?).

Here's my guess - there's another way to escape: go through the Gate. V and Blackwing arriving will be key. There is a whole world in there as V/Blackwing can and (dramatically) should tell them now. This means next Book could be about the world within, which I think beats another long slog to the next Gate, (this time through a frozen waste, which could get repetitive). Plus they might be able to escape through one of the other Rifts.

Now, how you get to the inner planets surface from the gate I dont know, nor if someone will have to stay behind to complete the destruction (Belkar big redemption scene?). I'm very much looking forward to how Rich does this. Hurrah for an excellent Epic! Here's hoping one day Giant ends up treading the jeweled thrones of Hollywood beneath his sandelled feet, and we get to hear the lamentation of the bean-counting execs who bring us utter storey-telling crap.

[Morty]

I don't think the Gate will necessarily explode if it's destroyed. Dorukan's Gate was destroyed by a self-destruct rune, which also blew up the entire dungeon. Lirian's gate was (SoD spoilers) pulled apart by treants after Redcloak had set them on fire, and didn't explode - Redcloak and Right-Eye were both right next to it and they were fine. Soon's gate did explode, but it was because it was so small and locked up in the sapphire, I think.

[Komodo]

Uh. Basic anatomy fail? Girard's buttcheeks were on Girard, and please don't ask where. "That's going to turn out to be some kind of a metaphor" was always a long shot; it is not something mysterious that needs to be explained that it turns out that, no, it was just--as Elan said--ass humor.

I understand that it was ass humor, but it still confuses me. According to Durkon, corpses "animated" with Speak With Dead cannot lie, although they can be cryptic. That means that the mummy meant something when he said that, twisting it to make the joke, but still speaking truthfully. I just wondered if that had been explained.

[Kish]

I understand that it was ass humor, but it still confuses me. According to Durkon, corpses "animated" with Speak With Dead cannot lie, although they can be cryptic. That means that the mummy meant something when he said that, twisting it to make the joke, but still speaking truthfully. I just wondered if that had been explained.
Uh...what's to explain? I don't get it. Between standard human buttcheeks there is an anal rift. No lie, no ambiguity. Nothing but not choosing to interpret "Girard's Rift" in the way someone who wanted to help Roy would have.

[JackRackham]

Prediction: No, Roy. Belkar's gonna destroy the gate. Whoever destroys it is going to die, and Belkar makes a lot of sense as a sacrificial lamb

[krieger]

Amazing! Giant, you rule! :smallsmile:

[Stabbey]

There's also one other problem with breaking the gate: Xykon is on the way, and he probably knows where Kraagor's gate is. Destroying this gate will keep it from Tarquin's hands, but Xykon can just teleport to the next one and have a huge lead as the Order struggles to catch up.

I'm pretty sure that Tarquin will come back down here too, he's smart enough to at least verify that it's not a double bluff.

[Kancsar]

There's also one other problem with breaking the gate: Xykon is on the way, and he probably knows where Kraagor's gate is. Destroying this gate will keep it from Tarquin's hands, but Xykon can just teleport to the next one ...

Here's the question, did Serini record the location of her own Gate in her journal? Or did she skip the info she was most familiar with and therefore did not need to record? Matbe we don't know enough about how Xykon's got that journal to know.

[DolGrenn]

I understand that it was ass humor, but it still confuses me. According to Durkon, corpses "animated" with Speak With Dead cannot lie, although they can be cryptic. That means that the mummy meant something when he said that, twisting it to make the joke, but still speaking truthfully. I just wondered if that had been explained.

Girard's Rift (according to the mummy) = Girard's Buttcrack

Therefore, Girard's Buttcrack is between Girard's Buttcheeks, technically not a lie, but still not what the OoTS were looking for. It was a perfect and humorous response from one of Girard's kin, nothing more. :smallbiggrin:

[Jay R]

I'm pretty sure that Tarquin will come back down here too, he's smart enough to at least verify that it's not a double bluff.

What's to verify? Malack seems to already know that it's there.


I don't think the Gate will necessarily explode if it's destroyed. Dorukan's Gate was destroyed by a self-destruct rune, which also blew up the entire dungeon. Lirian's gate was (SoD spoilers) pulled apart by treants after Redcloak had set them on fire, and didn't explode - Redcloak and Right-Eye were both right next to it and they were fine. Soon's gate did explode, but it was because it was so small and locked up in the sapphire, I think.

That's still 3 for 3 on people dying if they're near the gate when it's destroyed.

[Komodo]

Uh...what's to explain? I don't get it. Between standard human buttcheeks there is an anal rift. No lie, no ambiguity. Nothing but not choosing to interpret "Girard's Rift" in the way someone who wanted to help Roy would have.

Quite frankly, I had expected The Giant to do something clever with the phrase "Girard's buttcheeks." If a play on the word "rift" was all it was, then fine, I get it now. Sorry for the confusion, thank you for the explanation.

[AutomatedTeller]

Loved Belkar's line. Really liked that Malack saw the Order and just walked away. Division in the ranks of evil is always a plus for the good guys. He still needs to die, though, so we can get Durkon back.

[Lheticus]

"This pillar doesn't look load bearing to me..." Absolutely brilliant, there's those cross class skill ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html) being put to good use again!

[StreamOfTheSky]

Sure you do, if the dice didn't like you.

Mind you, I don't think Belkar did; I think he probably has a Strength in the 20s and hashad until Malack and Durkon drank it all up quite a high Constitution. A better example of someone whose dice really didn't like him/her is Vaarsuvius, who seems to have an 18 Intelligence and everything else in one digit.

I'm not sure his str is even that high, he's never really shown to do brawny things like Roy does all the time. I actually think he might have some feat or ability to use dex to damage and is a dex build, if anything. He kills way better than he should be able to; the dex-build would at least partly explain it. I do think it would be in keeping with his "melee powergaming / pitiful self-defeating single minded focus" that ALL his phys stats are very high just as all his mentals are lowered.

As for V, s/he seems to have an astoundingly high hp total for an Elf Wizard. S/he takes worse poundings than anyone but Roy on a routine basis and doesn't die. So it would seem s/he actually has a maxed out Con score along with Int. And everything else completely tanked. Even her/his racial-bonus-granting dex; has V *ever* dodged an attack?

[Shred-Bot]

Uh. Basic anatomy fail? Girard's buttcheeks were on Girard, and please don't ask where. "That's going to turn out to be some kind of a metaphor" was always a long shot; it is not something mysterious that needs to be explained that it turns out that, no, it was just--as Elan said--ass humor.

The board's tragic insistence that the dead Draketooth's remark was anything more than a bit of ass comedy diminishes us all.

[Aldrakan]

Aw, Malack's so nice. You know, for an evil death-worshipping abomination.

Agreed that destroying the gate is probably their best option. They have no realistic chance against Xykon in their current state. I do wonder however, doesn't Xykon know where Serini's Gate is? If he learns this one has been destroyed is there anything to delay him more than an hour or two from just popping over to the next?
Perhaps, knowing that it's guarded by an illusionist, he'll end up spending a long while searching in the belief that it's destruction was a trick. Or Tarquin's surprise will somehow delay him extensively.

[SaintRidley]

The board's tragic insistence that the dead Draketooth's remark was anything more than a bit of ass comedy diminishes us all.

It was always a possibility. A small possibility, but a possibility nonetheless.

The insistence that it had to mean something, though...

Well that was just

:smallcool:

asinine.

[Spoomeister]

I don't know if this has come up yet, but another reason for Malack not commenting on the hiding heroes: in addition to honoring his word to Durkon, it leaves those guys free to find the gate.

Malack has to know that the OOTS is collectively much cleverer than any combination of the Linear Guild, and Malack and Tarquin haven't been finding it either.

[Forikroder]

Aw, Malack's so nice. You know, for an evil death-worshipping abomination.

Agreed that destroying the gate is probably their best option. They have no realistic chance against Xykon in their current state. I do wonder however, doesn't Xykon know where Serini's Gate is? If he learns this one has been destroyed is there anything to delay him more than an hour or two from just popping over to the next?
Perhaps, knowing that it's guarded by an illusionist, he'll end up spending a long while searching in the belief that it's destruction was a trick. Or Tarquin's surprise will somehow delay him extensively.

note that the Oracle confirmed that Xykon would be near Girards gate, so that means assuming that Roy is about to destroy it Xykon is either already here or a few seconds from teleporting in, which means theyll probably have to get through him to get out

[Toper]

Hey, it looks like Roy found the gate!

I think Girard's not done bluffing yet, and V will find the real gate pretty soon. Why else would there be the deep hidden tunnel under the pyramid?

Although I admit it would have to have been quite a trick to bury the gate under solid rock in a canyon, assuming Shojo's description (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) of the desert rift was reasonably accurate.

[Ninja Dragon]

What I do want to know is how Roy is expecting to destroy the gate without dieing in the explosion. He doesn't have any spellcaster in the party, is he going to destroy it with his sword? Or does the party have any explosive rune packed?

[Vinsfeld]

I laughed so hard with Belkar now.

[Liliet]

It looks like all you have to do to destroy a gate is breach part of the seal and the rift will do the KRAKOOM for you. At least, that's what it looked like in Azure City.
Probably. However, the gate in Azure City was much smaller...


That makes me wonder. If Roy destroys the gate, the explosion made from its destruction will be enough to kill Belkar? :smalleek:
If there is any - yes, it will. He has about 1 Con now (not more than 4), if I`m not mistaken that means ridiculously slow HP.


Sure you do, if the dice didn't like you.

Mind you, I don't think Belkar did; I think he probably has a Strength in the 20s and hashad until Malack and Durkon drank it all up quite a high Constitution. A better example of someone whose dice really didn't like him/her is Vaarsuvius, who seems to have an 18 Intelligence and everything else in one digit.

I...don't see anyone there going along with, "Okay, Belkar, have a nice death!" Not mourn if he gets waxed by Xykon? Sure. Be happy about a prophecy stating he'll be dead soon? Certainly. Deliberately sacrifice him? No. All other considerations aside, there's Catch-22 to consider: If he'd go along with it, it would prove he didn't deserve it.
Yep. I think so too. No-one is going to like an idea of leaving Belkar to die even if it can be done without his consent somehow. I complained about it earlier: for some reason people keep insisting on Good party being nothing short of Evil regarding Belkar. Good does not subscribe to philosophy "pay Evil unto Evil" if it isn`t Miko-style Good.


I only now (my first comment was on the first page) noticed all the callbacks, both with load-bearing pillar and "oppressing niche". And Belkar`s fourth-wall-breaking doesn`t even feel like it anymore. The fourth wall is just a normal part of this world.
Some time ago at the beginning of this comic people called their reference to D&D mechanics breaking the fourth wall... it`s been a long time.


I still wonder where V is. If this isn`t a triple-bluff and the Gate is really there, it`s time for vir to appear, or it`s going to be another "separated" arc. I don`t want anything like this, I like V being on-screen with the rest, even without lines.

[Doug Lampert]

What I do want to know is how Roy is expecting to destroy the gate without dieing in the explosion. He doesn't have any spellcaster in the party, is he going to destroy it with his sword? Or does the party have any explosive rune packed?

He probably plans to whack it with his sword.

The Dungeon of Durukan blew up, but that may well have been the self-destruct rather than the gate failing. I certainly assumed at the time it was the self-destruct rune that caused the blast.

Soon's gate blew up, but Roy was dead at the time and has no one present has anyway of knowing what exactly happened in the throne room or caused the blast.

Lirian's gate didn't explode, but Roy also doesn't know that.

So Roy's got no information indicating that destroying a gate does anything in particular. We the readers have three destroyed gates, 1-2 of which blew up and 1-2 of which did not, so we certainly don't KNOW that destroying a gate makes it blow up either.

Why would Roy NOT expect whacking it with a sword to work fine.

[Agnostik]

I love Belkar breaking the fourth wall by mentioning the end of the book. This one was great, thanks Giant!
And Roy almost broke the panel with his sword. A few more levels, and those black borders will be in jeopardy!

Although Tsukiko already managed to shatter one with Haley's body, so...

[Fates]

I get the feeling Roy is going to wait for Team Evil to show up, before destroying the gate. That way, he could destroy Xykon/Redcloak, and hopefully his phylactery.

[ManuelSacha]

1) Malack confirms his Lawful Evil alignment. Huh.

2) I've gotta repeat what I said about the last strip. Epic trolling from Girard! I love the way this guy thinks!

3) We all had a feeling this Gate would end up destroyed.
I don't quite get why Roy wants to destroy it, though...
Does he consider his team not strong enough at the moment to fight Xykon and/or the Linear Guild (in case they came back), so he decided to not let them take it?

4) Belkar's lead sheet recurrent joke made me chuckle. :smallsmile:

[quasit]

The problem with destroying the gate right now is the inevitable explosion. Unless this gate also has a self-destruct mechanism, most of the people around will be in range, and I doubt most of them would be able to survive. Haley might due to evasion, but past that...

(Don't know if somebody comented about this already, so excuse me if i'm being repetitive) But I hope Roys have another safer mean to destroy him in mind than going fully Miko (or leaving somebody else to do the work... ). Else it will be tpk including belkar and haley (I expect the save dc//dodging of a fortress shattering Krackaaaakoooom to be pretty high//night impossible to beat//perform*). That way, even if they get to avoid the gate for falling in wrong hands, they'd have also suceeded in removing one of the few forces that are fighting to keep the universe at balance: themselves. The Belkster addressed that same point a few strips ago.

Unless Roy's heroic sacrifice plan count's with giving his fellow teammates a few minutes to get the f*** out. Somebody else might volunteer to do the deed instead, as Roy died already and... there's the topic of the certain death of some character predicted to happen soon.




* rules wise//narrative wise

[Zweisteine]

I totally called that!


The gate is, in fact, in that large rock. Divinations are not very hard to block.
If this is true, the OOTS may enter the room, despite the LG's hurried flight, and figure out that the gate actually is there.
Malack will see the OOTS.
He may or may not take note.

:amused:

[HandofShadows]

Ah, knew it. Right in plain sight. And destroying the gate is the better of two bad choices. :smallfrown:

[batiushkov]

Has the possibility been discussed that the end of the strip will be tied up with the long-stalled end of the world?

[quasit]

Also: "This pillar doesnt looks load-bearing to me".
Wow. Ranks in knowledge Architecture and engineering again. And for more much than a bond's one-liner. Chekjov skill, indeed.

And... got to love Belkar callback quote about lead sheets :biggrin:

[Kancsar]

I'm thinking about how the OOtS get out after they blow the Gate. ... Here's my guess - there's another way to escape: go through the Gate. V and Blackwing arriving will be key. There is a whole world in there as V/Blackwing can and (dramatically) should tell them now. ... someone will have to stay behind to complete the destruction (Belkar big redemption scene?)

if V is with them, perhaps they can use delayed blast fireball to break the Gate, while giving them time to flee through it? more plausible than anything a con-drained halfling ranger/barbarian might be able to do to the Gate.

[Giggling Ghast]

Roy's taking the smart option, as there's no feasible way they can possibly defend the Gate now.

The question is: can he destroy the Gate and still survive? Of the three Gates we've seen, one of them proved decidedly explode-y.

I wonder if this is Belkar's time to shine as a Heroic Sacrifice.

[Zweisteine]

if V is with them, perhaps they can use delayed blast fireball to break the Gate, while giving them time to flee through it? more plausible than anything a con-drained halfling ranger/barbarian might be able to do to the Gate.

Or they could leave an explosive rune, and leave someone behind.... They're not going to do that...

The gate might not be big enough to go through, and it will probably explode before it opens.

[Fish]

Fascinating.

1. Notice that the Gate is covered up with lead and stone. That means we can't see if it's a real Gate, or a replica.

2. If Girard built a replica, he'd build it to look like the Gate of his own era. He wouldn't know about the world inside it. A fake Girard-built rift would presumably show the Snarl inside.

3. Vaarsuvius would be able to tell the difference, but isn't here at the moment.

4. The surest way to tell if this is a real Gate is to blow it up and see if it goes krackakooooom.

My prediction:

A series of entrances by villains and heroes: "Not so fast!" they each cry, surprising the one ahead of him. Bursting in upon the Order in some to-be-determined order: Malack/Nale, Tarquin, Xykon, Ian Starshine, Vaarsuvius, Tarquin's team, the bounty hunters, Bozzok, Julio Scoundrél, Serini, Thog, and the Spanish Inquisition. What better way to humorously deflate Girard's secrecy schemes and paranoid precautions than by having everybody show up there?

[Unkillable_Cat]

Random thoughts:

# Nale is known to use Invisibility. Odds of Malack asking Nale to cast Invisibility on Malack, then him doubling back and being in the room with the OotS RIGHT NOW, are very high. "Hold Person" is very likely to be the first words spoken by the LG.

# Best-case scenario to destroy the gate would be for V to cast Explosive Runes on it. Lots of times. Xykon's last sight before suddenly finding himself back in the phylactery would be: "YOU SHOULD BE WORRIED THAT THESE RUNES ARE IN ALL-CAPS!"

# Tarquin's surprise is the Allosaurus from his arena, which he has had brought up to the pyramid. Which Xykon will then kill and zombify. Just for a laugh. And because it's bad-ass.

# I get the strange feeling that Serini and Belkar are related. Not just that both of them are halflings, but also family-related. It would be hilarious for them to run into Serini and Belkar going "Mom!?!"

[quasit]

Fascinating.

A series of entrances by villains and heroes: "Not so fast!" they each cry, surprising the one ahead of him. Bursting in upon the Order in some to-be-determined order: Malack/Nale, Tarquin, Xykon, Ian Starshine, Vaarsuvius, Tarquin's team, the bounty hunters, Bozzok, Julio Scoundrél, Serini, Thog, and the Spanish Inquisition. What better way to humorously deflate Girard's secrecy schemes and paranoid precautions than by having everybody show up there?

seems likely.

Would add the holey brotherhood and Baron's pineapple grandson/daughter to the list, as well :smallbiggrin:

[Agi Hammerthief]

After all, who else is there to prevent an anti-climactic ending here?
The Giant?
... by having written another gate into the story.

[Samalpetey]

My prediction:

A series of entrances by villains and heroes: "Not so fast!" they each cry, surprising the one ahead of him. Bursting in upon the Order in some to-be-determined order: Malack/Nale, Tarquin, Xykon, Ian Starshine, Vaarsuvius, Tarquin's team, the bounty hunters, Bozzok, Julio Scoundrél, Serini, Thog, and the Spanish Inquisition. What better way to humorously deflate Girard's secrecy schemes and paranoid precautions than by having everybody show up there?

I lost it at "The Spanish Inquisition"

[One Skunk Todd]

Uh. Basic anatomy fail? Girard's buttcheeks were on Girard, and please don't ask where. "That's going to turn out to be some kind of a metaphor" was always a long shot; it is not something mysterious that needs to be explained that it turns out that, no, it was just--as Elan said--ass humor.

It's also entirely possible that if you looked straight up from the gate you'd be looking right at Girard's boney bottom (through however many layers of pyramid).

[Forikroder]

Fascinating.

1. Notice that the Gate is covered up with lead and stone. That means we can't see if it's a real Gate, or a replica.

2. If Girard built a replica, he'd build it to look like the Gate of his own era. He wouldn't know about the world inside it. A fake Girard-built rift would presumably show the Snarl inside.

3. Vaarsuvius would be able to tell the difference, but isn't here at the moment.

4. The surest way to tell if this is a real Gate is to blow it up and see if it goes krackakooooom.

My prediction:

A series of entrances by villains and heroes: "Not so fast!" they each cry, surprising the one ahead of him. Bursting in upon the Order in some to-be-determined order: Malack/Nale, Tarquin, Xykon, Ian Starshine, Vaarsuvius, Tarquin's team, the bounty hunters, Bozzok, Julio Scoundrél, Serini, Thog, and the Spanish Inquisition. What better way to humorously deflate Girard's secrecy schemes and paranoid precautions than by having everybody show up there?

V wouldnt be able to tell the difference, they wont be able to look inside until the gate is destroyed and (possibly) the rift grows large enough


if i was Girard, id build a bomb to look exactly like the gate and set to explode if magic is cast on it, that way if someone comes looking for the gate to destroy it they think they siceeded, and if they come to control it theyd assume there ritual failed

[REbot]

I love it! Thank you, Giant!

Great character insights. Malack, who barely contains his desire to kill Nale, has absolutely no incentive to help Nale reach his objectives. I debated in my mind whether or not Malack would reveal the OotS position once he saw them: 1) On one hand he might reveal them in the hopes of spurring a fight that could result in Nale's death. 2) On the other hand, Malack can surely see the OotS is in no position to fight back and Malack has an incentive to keep Durkon away from his previous allies.

Just one question though... can anyone help me understand the definition of bluff versus double-bluff:

Isn't this just a standard bluff? The OotS don't expect Girard to tell the truth after all those deceptions and tricks and traps. In this instance, the OotS confirm Girard is lying. They call his bluff and the gate is revealed.

In a double-bluff, the OotS expect Girard to be lying when Girard is actually telling the truth. Hypothetically, a double bluff would be such as Girard said 'here's your gate' and the OotS were suspicious and refused to believe it. Resulting in the OotS looking everywhere but where the gate is just on account of Girard offering them anything.

Or a double-bluff in simpler terms: If I offer you a piece of candy twenty times and it turns out to be nothing but an empty wrapper that I disguised (standard bluff), then you start to believe that I'm consistently lying. On the 21st time I offer you a real piece of candy (double-bluff, telling the truth), but you refuse the offer because you don't even want to look at an empty wrapper.

[Smolder]

What's to verify? Malack seems to already know that it's there.


That's what I'm thinking. Malack will wait til Nale is out of earshot and tell Tarquin about the gate. After all, they don't need Nale anymore. They can either trick him into leaving in search of other pyramids or they can kill him. Either way, Nale doesn't need to know about the actual location of the Gate.

[Ave]

I'm still wondering, is this really the gate and not a triple bluff?

And @ malack, just what we needed, more confusing actions provoking guesses about more hidden motives.

A triple bluff is useless. Anyone who would want to use the gate would realize it in less than an hour. Building the pillar took more time.

[Aquillion]

And once again, Nale, you fail to grasp the concept of "elegance in simplicity". I almost get the feeling that Malack knew what Girard was up to and simply didn't suggest it to Nale out of spite.I doubt it. Letting Roy and company go as a favor to Durkon is one thing; risking his primary objective by leaving it unguarded after finding it is quite another.

(Especially since it's been heavily implied that he'll be allowed to kill Nale as soon as this quest is done, something that he'd be looking forward to. Tarquin mentioned "long-standing protocols", and it's not hard to guess that that includes telling allies that they've outlived their usefulness and killing them.)

[Fish]

V wouldnt be able to tell the difference, they wont be able to look inside ...
Sure they could. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html) if the art from Dorukan's Gate is any indication.

[ghoul-n]

What niceness you're talking about with Malack? Durkon asked him to spare his friends, Malack did that.

Turns he's at least a bit honorable, though.

[F.Harr]

HA! Take THAT, "Nale", you arrogant pile of weesle-crap!


I don't know if this has come up yet, but another reason for Malack not commenting on the hiding heroes: in addition to honoring his word to Durkon, it leaves those guys free to find the gate.

Malack has to know that the OOTS is collectively much cleverer than any combination of the Linear Guild, and Malack and Tarquin haven't been finding it either.

I don't think Malack cares about the gates. Or the Order, really. He's just going along with Tarquin's request and if, in the strict fulfilment of the letter of that request, Nale looks like an idot, petulant child, all the better. But that's just iceing. Tarquin's a mayfly.


Hey, it looks like Roy found the gate!

I think Girard's not done bluffing yet, and V will find the real gate pretty soon. Why else would there be the deep hidden tunnel under the pyramid?

Although I admit it would have to have been quite a trick to bury the gate under solid rock in a canyon, assuming Shojo's description (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) of the desert rift was reasonably accurate.

That's a possibility.


I laughed so hard with Belkar now.

Oh, yeah!


He probably plans to whack it with his sword. . .


Probably at first, but not out of any logical thought process but becuase he's had a VERY hard day and things are falling appart around him and he's most-likely emotional. Dude needs a pillow to beat up. Or some ice-cream and girl-chat.


And Roy almost broke the panel with his sword. A few more levels, and those black borders will be in jeopardy!

Although Tsukiko already managed to shatter one with Haley's body, so...

I wonder how many more attacks the boarder can take! Well, it's ongoing, so each episode, it's a new boarder, I suppose.


seems likely.

Would add the holey brotherhood and Baron's pineapple grandson/daughter to the list, as well :smallbiggrin:

Sadly, what this was in reply to didn't get quoted. And, I just want to say, that could be very funny and the capper on a really LOUSY day for poor Roy. He'll need a bubble bath with some +6 bath salts, oils and lotions. Celia probably has some.

[luc258]

:nale: :"thinks he is so frigging smart following the good guys"
Foreshadowing?

[Barlen]

In regards to Malak seeing the oots and then walking away, pay attention to the comments he made in the 893 and that Nale makes at the beginning of this strip:

Malak from 893: "As I recall you were instructed to let the heros trip the defenses before moving in"

and Nale from 895: "Thinks he so smart, following the good guys...." (refering to his father of course.

Tarquin gave instructions based on his long standing policies to the let the good guys go first and then take it from them. Malak sees the oots but ignores them so he can put those orders back on track.

[Forikroder]

That's what I'm thinking. Malack will wait til Nale is out of earshot and tell Tarquin about the gate. After all, they don't need Nale anymore. They can either trick him into leaving in search of other pyramids or they can kill him. Either way, Nale doesn't need to know about the actual location of the Gate.

in that case they wouldnt ahve brought Nale at all, they think they need nale to learn how to control the gate

[ghoul-n]

Also it's possible he's leaving just to say afterwards 'oh, I khew it was there, but here's another example of Nale failing miserably, let's return?'.

[Gift Jeraff]

:nale: :"thinks he is so frigging smart following the good guys"
Foreshadowing?

He's referring to the third/second-to-last panels here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) and third panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html).

[Zweisteine]

Just one question though... can anyone help me understand the definition of bluff versus double-bluff:

Isn't this just a standard bluff?

I think you get what a bluff/double bluff is (I didn't read your definitions very thoroughly).

This is a double bluff, not a single bluff.
They first bluff is the false bluff that the gate is not there, and the second is the gate being there.

Details:
It was originally obvious to the observers (the OOTS) that the gate was in the pyramid. This contains no bluff.
When they reach the gate room, it says the gate is not there. This makes the evidence that the gate was in the pyramid into bluff.
The gate is actually in the pyramid, despite the sign. double bluff.

Simpler:
All evidence says the gate is in the pyramid, but once inside, it appears the entire pyramid is a bluff (#1).
In fact, the sign saying that the pyramid is a bluff is a bluff (#2), and the gate is within the pyramid.

[warmachine]

Nale is too angry to notice but who reckons the odds OotS would have noticed Malack noticing them?

[Kalirren]

Bets that Belkar dies by reading an Explosive Rune that V casts on the gate?

[Zweisteine]

*snip*
Tarquin gave instructions based on his long standing policies to the let the good guys go first and then take it from them. Malak sees the oots but ignores them so he can put those orders back on track.

I'd guess that Malack left the Order alone because that was Durkon's dying wish. He plans on releasing Durkon from his direct control, so he likely decided to honor his request to either make Durkon friendlier to him (he'll need to do less influencing this way), or simply out of respect for his friend's dying wish.

I'd guess the first, because killing you're friend's friends isn't a good way to stay friends long.



Bets that Belkar dies by reading an Explosive Rune that V casts on the gate?

I had this thought as well, but it's unlikely.
While Belkar may die making a heroic sacrifice, it's currently too early in his genuine character development, not to mention that Roy wouldn't trust him to do it.

[attriel]

Random thoughts:.

# I get the strange feeling that Serini and Belkar are related. Not just that both of them are halflings, but also family-related. It would be hilarious for them to run into Serini and Belkar going "Mom!?!"

that would be hilarious. she changed her name an' all

although, I'm guessing old-age has done serini in. Soon and Draketooth are both dead of age, and from Shojo we know he's the grandson (great?) so it's likely other typically aged races would have died out.

[Sky_Schemer]

Now, how you get to the inner planets surface from the gate I dont know,

This is easy. They don't need to get to the surface, just from one gate to the other. Assuming all the gates are in space above the planet, all they need is a giant soap bubble, a lump of metal, and an axe.

(And if you can identify that reference, I applaud you. And, you're probably as old as I am.)

[Sky_Schemer]

I'm guessing old-age has done serini in. Soon and Draketooth are both dead of age, and from Shojo we know he's the grandson (great?) so it's likely other typically aged races would have died out.

Halflings live about 30% longer than humans. So while it's possible she has died from old age, it's not a given.

[Dracon1us]

I doubt it. Letting Roy and company go as a favor to Durkon is one thing; risking his primary objective by leaving it unguarded after finding it is quite another.

(Especially since it's been heavily implied that he'll be allowed to kill Nale as soon as this quest is done, something that he'd be looking forward to. Tarquin mentioned "long-standing protocols", and it's not hard to guess that that includes telling allies that they've outlived their usefulness and killing them.)

but which is the primary objective?

[Lateral]

Heh. "Stop suppressing our rupture, you electroresistive niche!" I like that.

[One Skunk Todd]

Nale is too angry to notice but who reckons the odds OotS would have noticed Malack noticing them?

Belkar is sure giving him an angry look.

[Sky_Schemer]

Belkar is sure giving him an angry look.

And Roy seems to suspect something is up.

[Deepbluediver]

Dammit Malack, I'm trying to hate you.

If it helps, remember that his long-term plan is to slaughter thousands, all for the glory of his god.

If anything, I would say this makes it worse because he seems to have some sort of honor and intelligence instead of just being stupid-chaotic-destructo-evil, and still chooses the wrong path.


The problem with destroying the gate right now is the inevitable explosion. Unless this gate also has a self-destruct mechanism, most of the people around will be in range, and I doubt most of them would be able to survive. Haley might due to evasion, but past that...

Perhaps that's what Roy is counting on; wait until Xykon is in range, then destroy the gate and hope it gets both of them. He doesn't normally seem like the suicide-type, but I don't think it's inconceivable given his pragmatic nature and current state of mind.

[bengator]

I can't believe more people don't think this is a false gate as well. I can understand why, but it seems way too easy and a bit anticlimatic for roy to just walk in and bust it with his sword. Methinks there is more afoot. Or as has been mentioned it is a great set up for a running gag about everyone arriving simultaneously.

I also wonder why the party has never bothered to look for v or doesnt even seem to wonder where v has gone off to. You would think they would be worried v hasnt returned or pissed and confused that v wandered off. Their passive acceptance of the disappearance of their most powerful ally seems like a weak link to this particular arc.

[Kish]

I also wonder why the party has never bothered to look for v or doesnt even seem to wonder where v has gone off to. You would think they would be worried v hasnt returned or pissed and confused that v wandered off. Their passive acceptance of the disappearance of their most powerful ally seems like a weak link to this particular arc.
What would you propose they do?

Note that, "Go directly to where Vaarsuvius is" is not a valid answer. And if you're just saying you wish more panels had been devoted to Roy saying, "Darn, I wish I knew where Vaarsuvius went," I disagree. He said it once, and that was enough for me.

[Deepbluediver]

I also wonder why the party has never bothered to look for v or doesnt even seem to wonder where v has gone off to. You would think they would be worried v hasnt returned or pissed and confused that v wandered off. Their passive acceptance of the disappearance of their most powerful ally seems like a weak link to this particular arc.

And how, exactly, do you propose they do that? They have no clue where he might have gone, no magic to track him, and Nale & Co are breathing down their neck.


Edit: Swordsaged :smallredface:

[mjijm]

Why does everyone think that there will be an explosion? Five gates so far, each one with an explosion, sure, but let's go down the list.

LIRIAN'S: This is the only gate that I don't have overmuch information on (yet to read SoD, unfortunately), but from what I've heard it was destroyed in a fire. This is the only one that makes me wonder if I'm wrong, but still - fire reacts with untold energy to create explosion makes me think that it's less "all gates explode" and more "bad chemistry".

DORUKAN'S: Elan actually touched a self-destruct button. Boom, not gate-related.

SOON'S: Hinjo specifically mentioned that the entire castle was built around the gate. I think that's more the explosion cause, here: it's like tearing a keystone out of a bridge.

Is there any reason everyone thinks there will be a massive explosion here?

[Forikroder]

I can't believe more people don't think this is a false gate as well. I can understand why, but it seems way too easy and a bit anticlimatic for roy to just walk in and bust it with his sword. Methinks there is more afoot. Or as has been mentioned it is a great set up for a running gag about everyone arriving simultaneously.

I also wonder why the party has never bothered to look for v or doesnt even seem to wonder where v has gone off to. You would think they would be worried v hasnt returned or pissed and confused that v wandered off. Their passive acceptance of the disappearance of their most powerful ally seems like a weak link to this particular arc.

what are they supposed to do about it? they have no way of finding him should they give up on the gate and look for him instead?

[attriel]

I also wonder why the party has never bothered to look for v or doesnt even seem to wonder where v has gone off to. You would think they would be worried v hasnt returned or pissed and confused that v wandered off. Their passive acceptance of the disappearance of their most powerful ally seems like a weak link to this particular arc.

V is MIA since they got to the pyramid. They don't know if V ran further in or out. They certainly don't know V fell down a pit trap then passwall'd around a bit.

And then there's the overriding concern. Big Gate. Big Bad. Big Evil. Win or Die. looking for V, while almost certainly useful in terms of firepower and how to resolve the gate, loses compared to "must stop Xykon from destroying the world!!! Must stop Tarquin!"

If it was just Nale, sure why not. He's a tool ;)

[hamishspence]

Why does everyone think that there will be an explosion? Five gates so far, each one with an explosion, sure, but let's go down the list.

LIRIAN'S: This is the only gate that I don't have overmuch information on (yet to read SoD, unfortunately), but from what I've heard it was destroyed in a fire. This is the only one that makes me wonder if I'm wrong, but still - fire reacts with untold energy to create explosion makes me think that it's less "all gates explode" and more "bad chemistry".


In SOD, it wasn't destroyed by the fire itself:
but by the two treants it was attached to, panicking and ripping it in half.

Result- loud "krakooom" sound a bit like with the other two gates we see destroyed.

[Deepbluediver]

Is there any reason everyone thinks there will be a massive explosion here?


Five gates so far, each one with an explosion,


You're answering you're own question. Either the gate will explode, or it won't. The only real understanding we have how the gates work is what we've seen with out own eyes.

Currently, we've seen 3 gates- Lirian's, Durokan's, and Soon's.

2 exploded, 1 did not (at least not on the same scale).

So, odd's are, this one will explode as well.

[Hajutze]

Since I'm not so good with the DnD spell list and so on ... is there any possibility of V coming back, making a destruction rune and leaving Belkar with it while everyone else escapes.

This way Belker will die (as the prophesy goes xD), will redeem himself, everyone else will be alive and if detonated at the right moment he could take out few of the bad guys (damage both from the rune explosion and damage from the gate explosion should do the trick)

[Purgatorius]

I think Malack also believes that the gate is somewhere else. Maybe because he too is a magic-user and has to high confidence in magic.
I think he chose to ignore the Order because revealing them to Nale would only have made him stop to fight them. Then it would have taken longer time to find the gate. Finding the gate is their primary objective, and when they have secured it they are closer to the point where Malack and Tarquin don't need Nale anymore, and Malack can kill him.
I think Malack's honesty towards Durkon only gave the Order one chance.

[Porthos]

More and more I'm seeing the Order of the Stick ending up taking up for the the Order of the Scribble.

No clue how they'll do the sealing of the rifts thing, since V is the only spellcaster, but I can otherwise see them doing it. Roy gets pissed at Belkar, "It should have been you!!!", the group disbands yadda yadda.

Haley takes over Girard's gate (dad's in the desert area)
Roy takes up Soon's
Belkar redoes Kraagor's gate, but in-residence
V rebuilds Dorukan's magic labyrinth
and Elan makes a new gate at Lirian's (they're both peace-and-harmony so it kindof works), or makes it in Durkon's image (not sure where he gets the celestial's though ... maybe asks Thor for his friend's memory ... or calls on the great power of BANJO!!)

yeah, that lines up IMO.

I think you're close but reading it wrong.

Yes, the Order of the Stick is getting more and more like the Order of the Rift with every passing arc. But the difference is the Order of the Stick will succeed where the Order of the Rift failed.

See, it has been my long belief that one of the overriding arcs of the strip is to have the OotS undergo the character growth necessary to fix the mistakes of the OotR. The loss of Kragar ultimately destroyed the OotR. But while it came close, the (temporary?) loss of Durkon didn't destroy the OotS. Instead they were able to pull back from the brink and continue working as a team.

Now there are still plenty of unresolved faultlines (Hellllloo V), but for now the Order of the Stick seems to be on the right path when it comes to keeping it together.

[Zweisteine]

although, I'm guessing old-age has done serini in. Soon and Draketooth are both dead of age, and from Shojo we know he's the grandson (great?) so it's likely other typically aged races would have died out.

Halflings live about 30% longer than humans. So while it's possible she has died from old age, it's not a given.

According to the unoffical timeline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35936), Serini should still be alive, unless she has been killed or died of a sickness.


1118 By now Soon and Lirian have been accompanied by Serini Toormuck the Halfling Rogue, Girard Draketooth the Illusionist, Kraagor the Dwarven Barbarian and Dorukan the Wizard.
This date is listed as certain (because there is no ~ in front of it), and we know Serini was not already old at that point.
Halflings live to be at least 105 (max. age 100+5d20) before they risk death of old age.
The comic began in the year 1183, so Serini is likely alive. She is probably either still wandering, or has retired to her gate in her age. If she was wandering, she has likely noticed the recent events (or will soon), and either returned to defend her own gate, or is heading for one of the other rifts. If she retired, she is probably working on improving her gate's defenses.



I can't believe more people don't think this is a false gate as well. I can understand why, but it seems way too easy and a bit anticlimatic for roy to just walk in and bust it with his sword. Methinks there is more afoot. Or as has been mentioned it is a great set up for a running gag about everyone arriving simultaneously.

It not as simple as breaking the gate. When it breaks, they will most likely be caught in a massive explosion, similar to that of Soon's gate. It will alsop leave the risk of Xykon taking control of Girard's rift as well.

[Kish]

the Order of the Rift
It was Scribble.

[F.Harr]

Belkar is sure giving him an angry look.

That's doesn't count. Belkar's almost always angry.


I can't believe more people don't think this is a false gate as well. I can understand why, but it seems way too easy and a bit anticlimatic for roy to just walk in and bust it with his sword. Methinks there is more afoot. Or as has been mentioned it is a great set up for a running gag about everyone arriving simultaneously.

Oh, it's a possiblitiy. But I trust Haley's understanding of the sneakiness of other people



I also wonder why the party has never bothered to look for v or doesnt even seem to wonder where v has gone off to. You would think they would be worried v hasnt returned or pissed and confused that v wandered off. Their passive acceptance of the disappearance of their most powerful ally seems like a weak link to this particular arc.

How? V's a wizard. If V doesn't want to be found, V won't be found. Dratit with all this tip-towing around pronouns. If yo doesn't want to be found, yo won't be found. No, that doesn't help.

Anyway, there's too much going on. Elan, Haley and Belkar could be sent out to look for V while Roy holds the suicide switch waiting for Xykon. Or not.

"I think you're close but reading it wrong."

Except for the part of the power of BANJO!

"Yes, the Order of the Stick is getting more and more like the Order of the Rift with every passing arc. But the difference is the Order of the Stick will succeed where the Order of the Rift failed.

"See, it has been my long belief that one of the overriding arcs of the strip is to have the OotS undergo the character growth necessary to fix the mistakes of the OotR. The loss of Kragar ultimately destroyed the OotR. But while it came close, the (temporary?) loss of Durkon didn't destroy the OotS. Instead they were able to pull back from the brink and continue working as a team.

"Now there are still plenty of unresolved faultlines (Hellllloo V), but for now the Order of the Stick seems to be on the right path when it comes to keeping it together."

Interesting. I love it!

[Sir_Leorik]

Here are my predictions:

The next strip will probably contain an argument as Haley or Elan try to talk Roy out of destroying the Gate. Roy will point out that without Durkon and V, and with Xykon and Team Evil on their way and the Linear Guild still in the pyramid, they won't be able to protect the Gate.

Belkar will point out the obvious: destroying the Gate will probably kill whoever's standing nearby and destroy the pyramid. How can they protect Kraagor's Gate if they're dead? Belkar will then volunteer to destroy the Gate; he'll argue that he's a liability to the group with a Constitution score of 4 or lower and a maximum of 14 hit points; besides, if he's going to die he'd rather do it in a grand fashion rather than killed by a stray magic missile like a chump. Roy, knowing the Oracle's prophecy, agrees to let Belkar blow the Gate. The plan is that Belkar will wait a certain amount of time to give Roy, Haley, Elan, Mr. Scruffy (and possibly V) time to escape the pyramid.

Meanwhile, Qarr gets a phone call from the IFCC: they've been monitoring the pyramid, and they're pissed with him. They need Qarr to get down to the Gate Room in order to prevent Belkar from destroying the Gate; once Belkar's dead he is to immediately get V down there so their plans for the Gate can move forward. Too bad for Qarr that his empathic link with Zz'Dtri still works, and the Drow wizard knows something's up.

While the Linear Guild are squabbling over what to do, and Qarr goes looking for the Gate, Xykon, Redcloak and the MitD teleport into the hexagonal room, roughly within 1,000 feet of Girard's Gate. They move to the Gate, just as the time limit comes and Belkar destroys the Gate. Xykon mutters "Not again" and he teleports himself and his team out of the pyramid.

The explosion kills Belkar; it also hurts Roy, Haley and Elan. The fiends summoned by Durkon and Z are killed; Durkon and Malack take little damage, while Z and Nale are hurt badly. Seeing the look on Malack's face, Z teleports himself and Nale away from the pyramid. Finally, Vaarsuvius is caught in the blast and killed, fulfilling the Oracle's prophecy that Belkar would cause V's death.

The OotS mourn Belkar, V and Durkon; on the last page of volume five they wander into the desert to make plans for what to do next.

[Newwby]

This comic was absolutely fantastic, I loved every moment. It may in fact be my new favourite comic.

"Stop supressing our rupture, you electroresistive niche!" is definitely my new favourite quote!

[Kingault]

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

[white lancer]

You know, there are some strips that are great because they are completely unpredictable, and them there are strips like this one, where every major event and decision was predicted by most of the readers. And I still loved it, because thanks to the set-up Rich did, everything that happened in this strip--the double-bluff and the OotS seeing through it, the iron sheet, Malack seeing the Order and not telling Nale--makes sense. I especially appreciate the PCs already having come to the logical conclusion that their best move is to cut their losses and destroy this gate, then hope to regroup in time to defend the last one. This is the payoff to all that setup Rich did, and it makes for one of the best recent strips IMO.

Of course, this won't be that easy for the Order. Xykon, Vaarsuvius, and probably Tarquin have to make appearances before the book ends, and I'm interested to see how that turns out. But I was wholly satisfied with this strip. :)

[137beth]

Vaarsuvius is caught in the blast and killed, fulfilling the Oracle's prophecy that Belkar would cause V's death.
The oracle did not predict that Belkar would cause the death of V.

[Snails]

The board's tragic insistence that the dead Draketooth's remark was anything more than a bit of ass comedy diminishes us all.

Well, it is more than ass comedy, insofar as jokes that very literally answer a serious question is a perfect poor man's defense against Speak With Dead. Lead sheeting for your corpse, so to speak.

[drazen]

Lirian's Gate was larger than Soon's Gate, but its explosion didn't harm anyone who was close to it, so I wonder what will happen here.

Maybe it was physics, P = F / A ? Tiny gemstone holding back a ton of energy. Different than Dorukan's, in that it didn't specifically have a self-destruct. I suppose Girard could have booby trapped this one, too, though (given the trap in the desert).

[Deepbluediver]

The board's tragic insistence that the dead Draketooth's remark was anything more than a bit of ass comedy diminishes us all.

It seems perfectly in line with gamer-logic. The players will ignore your carefully crafted scenarios and fully statted-out and fluffed NPCs while attempting to recruit the barkeep, the item shop owner, that random street urchin, and some one's pet, then go wandering off into the middle of a barren wasteland to complain that they can't find the plot.

[Porthos]

It was Scribble.

As far as I know, that's a fan defintion. I choose to use Rift (which I've seen other people use) since it makes more thematic sense to me. After all, their adventures weren't in scribble when they were doing it. Onle when seen in narrative enforced flashback. :smallwink:

[Shale]

There's also one other problem with breaking the gate: Xykon is on the way, and he probably knows where Kraagor's gate is. Destroying this gate will keep it from Tarquin's hands, but Xykon can just teleport to the next one and have a huge lead as the Order struggles to catch up.

I'm pretty sure that Tarquin will come back down here too, he's smart enough to at least verify that it's not a double bluff.

Tying into this, my prediction is that the explosion will destroy Xykon's body again. Redcloak's deception is revealed when Xykon wakes up in the holy symbol, Team Evil is no more, and now Xykon can teleport to Kraagor's Gate immediately, and set it up as his Final Boss Lair, but can't actually perform the ritual, giving the heroes time to make their way on foot without the world ending.

[Kish]

As far as I know, that's a fan defintion.
Look again. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html)

(Do a find for the word Scribble on that page.)

Beyond that, your argument that Rift makes more sense than Scribble...reminds me a lot of an argument that the members of the Order (of the Stick, not Scribble) surely do not see themselves and each other as stick figures, which would be quite wrong. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html)

[Commander672]

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Colbert_3741.jpg

I KNEW it was a double bluff! Hell, Yeah! For the first time ever in this comic I was spot on!

Of course, now they must deal with Girard's greatest threat...lead poisoning!

[Gift Jeraff]

As far as I know, that's a fan defintion. I choose to use Rift (which I've seen other people use) since it makes more thematic sense to me. After all, their adventures weren't in scribble when they were doing it. Onle when seen in narrative enforced flashback. :smallwink:

It comes from the title of strip #276. And it makes sense from their perspective, since they set out to seal a scribble-like entity.

[Sutremaine]

The Oracle's explanations of how his prediction had already taken place were getting more and more unbelievable, but each one of the ones he did get to mention were either dead or out of commission (Windstriker). It's likely that his explanation of V's death would be in the same vein.

Perhaps he was going to refer to V's soul being trapped with the IFCC in the hellish afterlife while one of them takes their alotted time, if indeed V's soul is going to be absent while the fiends take over. Or perhaps there'll be enough comics before Belkar's death for something else entirely to happen.

[Yamian]

...

I would break the stone block to pieces and go from there.

Violence: is there a problem it CAN'T solve?

Wait, what? Destroy the gate? Why? WHY?! Will that accomplish anything?
There is still one gate left so the search/race will continue.
Does he not remember what happened after destroying Dorukan's and Soon's gates? How is he (not to mention Belkar) supposed to survive the explosion? It will most likely blow up the whole pyramid. And if not, they will be even more easier target for the LG or Xykon.

I hope Haley will come up with something.

OTOH... Do they have any other options? With Xykon closing in, LG still nearby and don't forget about the Fiends.

Only V knows what's inside the rift and this might give some insight, but (s)he is no present... Well played, Rich.

And still... Is that really the gate? I mean, I could be some kind of portal somewhere... And we could only see some cracks in the stone so far.

My next prediction: On the way out the LG will run into Xykon.

[Porthos]

Look again. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html)

(Do a find for the word Scribble on that page.)

Fair enuf. But I don't think many people are going to be confused by the term Order of the Rift. And, as said, many other people have used it before.

Plus it makes the use of acronyms easier when describing both groups. :smalltongue:

[Deepbluediver]

Look again. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html)

(Do a find for the word Scribble on that page.)

Beyond that, your argument that Rift makes more sense than Scribble...reminds me a lot of an argument that the members of the Order (of the Stick, not Scribble) surely do not see themselves and each other as stick figures, which would be quite wrong. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html)

Re-reading that sequence, I realized that it's mostly pictures, but Soon has 3 lines of text and Girrard has 4.

Soon directs 2 of them at Durokan and 1 at his wife.

Girrard directs 3 at Soon (and 1 at a random cultist), and all three are derogatory towards paladins in some manner.


I know that people on the forums like to blame the paladins for things, mostly do to the existence of Miko and the events in Start of Darkness, but from what little evidence I've seen, any conflict between Girrard's family and Soon's would be stemming from the illusionist, not the paladin. I'm starting to wonder if Girrard didn't have some pre-existing bias and/or delude himself into thinking there was much more antagonism between the two of them then there really was.

[Porthos]

I'm starting to wonder if Girrard didn't have some pre-existing bias and delude himself into thinking there was much more antagonism between the two of them then there really was.

It has been suggested that Soon might have given Girard a reason for not liking paladins.

It has also been suggested from at least a couple of people that perhaps Soon was speaking from personal experience when he talked about seeking forgiveness from those one had wronged (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html).

Or perhaps not on that later point. But it's pretty clear that Girard has a strong antipathy toward paladins in general and Soon in particular. I tend to think that Kraagor can't be the only reason for that.

[Yoyoyo]

Wow, a nearly 700 strip old reference to the lead sheet! What's next, referencing weapon shrinkage? :smallsmile: Great strip, Giant.

[luc258]

He's referring to the third/second-to-last panels here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) and third panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html).
I meant a foreshadowing what Tarquin has been doing while he was off-panel.

[Gift Jeraff]

My theory is Soon was a Detect Evil-happy paladin, but when the first time Girard saw Soon attack without using Detect Evil it was against a chromatic dragon, so that pissed off Girard to no end.

[Porthos]

Wow, a nearly 700 strip old reference to the lead sheet! What's next, referencing weapon shrinkage? :smallsmile: Great strip, Giant.

It's been referenced (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0779.html) more recently than that. :smalltongue:

[Samalpetey]

The oracle did not predict that Belkar would cause the death of V.

He didn't state it outright, but when listing how Belkar's prophecy had been 'fulfilled' he said "And as for the elf" or something like that. It could have just been something he said to stop Belkar killing him, but it could be a prophecy

EDIT: Here's the strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

[Defiant]

Wow... that left me speechless for a few minutes (and motionless in shock and fear). Stunning, superb.

[Chad30]

I can't say I'm surprised they're going to go ahead and destroy it. Having just one gate left in the end makes the last gate more of a tense situation anyway. It's not like they can defend it. Though we can't say it will definitely get destroyed until it actually is.

[Sir_Leorik]

Or perhaps not on that later point. But it's pretty clear that Girard has a strong antipathy toward paladins in general and Soon in particular. I tend to think that Kraagor can't be the only reason for that.

Girard was a highly Chaotic individual who did not trust authority figures. No one else in the Order of the Scribble had a problem with Soon Kim before Kraagor's death; Kraagor, Serini, Lirian and Dorukan seemed to be either fond of him or respectful. Girard was the only one who openly cracked jokes at Soon's expense. (Yes he was technically making a joke about Serini wanting to take a level of Paladin, but the point of the joke was to mock Soon for being uptight and stoic.) Given that Soon had lost his wife Mijung before he set out on the Order of the Scribble's quest, Girard was being an insensitve jerk at the time.

[ti'esar]

It seems perfectly in line with gamer-logic. The players will ignore your carefully crafted scenarios and fully statted-out and fluffed NPCs while attempting to recruit the barkeep, the item shop owner, that random street urchin, and some one's pet, then go wandering off into the middle of a barren wasteland to complain that they can't find the plot.

...That's an awesome way to think about it.

[137beth]

He didn't state it outright, but when listing how Belkar's prophecy had been 'fulfilled' he said "And as for the elf" or something like that. It could have just been something he said to stop Belkar killing him, but it could be a prophecy

EDIT: Here's the strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

Uh, yea, he said he didn't buy any of those explanations:smallsigh:
I mean, I guess you could say that the Oracle was lying when he said he didn't buy any of his own explanations in an attempt to fool Belkar...

[AnvilMAn]

let me just say: cross class ranks in architecture FTMFW

[Sir_Leorik]

The oracle did not predict that Belkar would cause the death of V.

:belkar: "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Vaarsuvius, Roy or you?"

Oracle: "Yes."

Not to mention: "And as for the elf --" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

[Deepbluediver]

It has been suggested that Soon might have given Girard a reason for not liking paladins.

It has also been suggested from at least a couple of people that perhaps Soon was speaking from personal experience when he talked about seeking forgiveness from those one had wronged (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html).

Or perhaps not on that later point. But it's pretty clear that Girard has a strong antipathy toward paladins in general and Soon in particular. I tend to think that Kraagor can't be the only reason for that.

I don't know who raised Girrard, but presumably it was some one with black-dragon heritage (Girrard being abandoned or fostered doesn't strike me as likely, given his belief in strength of familial bonds).

This is pure speculation, but I'm thinking that he probably got the evil (or at least the non-good) view of paladins, and was taught that so-called "honor" wasn't worth spit from an early age. I don't know how Girrard got involved with the other members of the group (maybe he was chillaxing with Kragor or Serini when they came calling?) but I think he might have be predetermined to dislike Soon from the start. So no matter what Soon did, even be the bestest-buddy in the whole wide world, he and Girrard could never have been anything closer than contentious allies.

[Sir_Leorik]

It seems perfectly in line with gamer-logic. The players will ignore your carefully crafted scenarios and fully statted-out and fluffed NPCs while attempting to recruit the barkeep, the item shop owner, that random street urchin, and some one's pet, then go wandering off into the middle of a barren wasteland to complain that they can't find the plot.

Absolutely spot on. The only part you left out is the night they spend in jail after starting a pointless bar brawl. :smallamused:

[137beth]

:belkar: "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Vaarsuvius, Roy or you?"

Oracle: "Yes."

Not to mention: "And as for the elf --" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

The oracle predicted that Belkar would kill at least one of {Oracle, Miko, Miko's horse, Roy, V}. That prophecy was fulfilled when he killed the oracle. None of the other people in that set are related to the prophecy.

[Porthos]

He didn't state it outright, but when listing how Belkar's prophecy had been 'fulfilled' he said "And as for the elf" or something like that. It could have just been something he said to stop Belkar killing him, but it could be a prophecy

EDIT: Here's the strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

This has been debated ad nauseum on this forum. Perhaps even more than that. :smalltongue:

First off, and the most important bit: The Oracle wasn't buying any of those explanations. He was just stalling for time.

Why people constantly gloss over the "Yeah, I wasn't really buying those theories, either" line is beyond me. I mean, they take the Oracle at his word when he was lying, but think he was lying when he was telling the truth? Yeah. I don't get it. :smalltongue:

Secondly, the progression of 'causing the death of' became more and more ridiculous. To the point where 'Miko's stupid horse' didn't even die.

If one follows that logical progression then, IMO at least, the Oracle was about to foretell of V's transformation into Darth Vaarsuvius. Which, from a certain point of view, would mean the death of one person and the birth of another.

Completely and utterly ridiculous, I hear someone say? No more ridiculous than the rest of the Oracle's attempts to weasel out of things. :smallamused:

[Yoyoyo]

It's been referenced (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0779.html) more recently than that. :smalltongue:

I forgot about that one. Can't get enough lead sheet humor.

[Porthos]

No one else in the Order of the Scribble had a problem with Soon Kim before Kraagor's death

As far as we know. Personally I think we have seen far too little of their adventuring party to really say one way or the other.

[konradknox]

So the rift is NOT between Girard's butt cheeks... :smallconfused:

[Math_Mage]

Absolutely spot on. The only part you left out is the night they spend in jail after starting a pointless bar brawl. :smallamused:

...which they started when trying to seduce the waitresses.

[Sir_Leorik]

The oracle predicted that Belkar would kill at least one of {Oracle, Miko, Miko's horse, Roy, V}. That prophecy was fulfilled when he killed the oracle. None of the other people in that set are related to the prophecy.

No, the Oracle prophecied that Belkar would cause the death of at least one of them. Belkar could still cause the death of more than one of them, and depending on whether you accept the intrepretations the Oracle put forth, Belkar has caused the deaths of everyone on the list except Vaarsuvius.

[Morty]

Except, like Porthos said, Windstriker didn't even die.

[Sir_Leorik]

...which they started when trying to seduce the waitresses.

And picking a barbarian's pockets. While also cheating at poker. And playing a lute/mandolin/harp loudly, despite the barkeep's request that they let the minstrel hired for that purpose do his job. And attacking the city guardsmen trying to get everything calm.

[Porthos]

So the rift is NOT between Girard's butt cheeks... :smallconfused:

Psst. Rift can have more than one definition. :smalltongue:

[Shale]

Except, like Porthos said, Windstriker didn't even die.

Yeah, whatever the Oracle was going to say about V, it was even more tenuous than "well, Windstriker is going to be trapped in the Celestial Realms for a while, and that's kind of like death." My bet would be something about V's soul being temporarily in the service of fiends, and Belkar being tangentially related to that decision somehow.

[Sir_Leorik]

Yeah, whatever the Oracle was going to say about V, it was even more tenuous than "well, Windstriker is going to be trapped in the Celestial Realms for a while, and that's kind of like death." My bet would be something about V's soul being temporarily in the service of fiends, and Belkar being tangentially related to that decision somehow.

You mean the not-at-all tangential way Belkar had Haley shoot down the exotic birds V was using as messengers, so that he could cook them for Mr. Scruffy's dinner? If they hadn't done that the birds would have relayed the messages and V would not have later abandoned the fleet, been vulnerable to the Black Dragon's attack and forced to make the pact with the IFCC. Which is a perfectly reasonable explanation for how Belkar will cause V's death.

[Math_Mage]

I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more discussion of the fact that Roy's essentially proposing suicide.

You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking Belkar is gonna take the fall here. Probably not for a while longer, though, not with Team Evil about to show up and Tarquin about to get back into things.


No, the Oracle prophecied that Belkar would cause the death of at least one of them. Belkar could still cause the death of more than one of them, and depending on whether you accept the intrepretations the Oracle put forth, Belkar has caused the deaths of everyone on the list except Vaarsuvius.

Nobody bought the explanations of the Oracle, though. That's kinda the point.

[toapat]

No, the Oracle prophecied that Belkar would cause the death of at least one of them. Belkar could still cause the death of more than one of them, and depending on whether you accept the intrepretations the Oracle put forth, Belkar has caused the deaths of everyone on the list except Vaarsuvius.

nope. You are not understanding the Oracle then.

go back and read the Oracle's Predictions, those involving non-reptiles, are done in extremely literal phrasing of the question submitted. For instance:

Where is Xykon? In his Throne Room.

where as the question submitted was "where would we find the stronghold of Xykon", to which the reply is "In Dorukon's Fortress, in the Nation of Anywhere"

while Belkar's question was open ended, the Oracle answered it in relation to the actual most literal definition of the question, which is what Belkar asked anyway.

Belkar's question, when extrapolated, is this: "Will i directly kill any of the following?: Miko, Windstriker, Roy, or you" (Most literal way to phrase the question)

When the oracle saw that the answer was himself, being a Literal Genie, he was not going to answer the question in specific terms. He also admitted hes damn well lieing right before Belkar performs a Dagger Insertion Operation.

[Porthos]

Yeah, whatever the Oracle was going to say about V, it was even more tenuous than "well, Windstriker is going to be trapped in the Celestial Realms for a while, and that's kind of like death."

The tenuous thing is the most important bit. IMO, part of the point of the scene was to acknowledge/poke a little bit of fun at all of the "Belkar caused the death of X" arguing that had been flying around fandom ever since Roy died. It wasn't a Take That, but more of a wink and a nod.

See, none of the characters present were buying what the Oracle was selling. They were all saying something to the effect of "Weaksauce man, weak."

Let's take them in order:

Belkar caused the death of Roy: This was potentially the strongest link. But all of the characters present, including the Oracle, started to poke holes in the idea and point out how ridiculous the notion was.

When the Oracle said, more or less, "OK, you're not buying that one. How about Miko?", he came up with a rationale that was more ridiculous on its face. All it succeeded in doing was get Belkar angrier.

Again, none of the characters present bought that explanation.

Which is when the Oracle tried to shift to the "Well, if you redefine death..." argument. This was rejected by all almost instantaneously. If Belkar had kept his head, he would have gotten his refund (remember, he has a lawyer present who was backing up Belkar :smallwink:).

But, instead, he blew his lid and caused the death the Oracle. And all because the Oracle was trying to weasel out of things.

IMO the whole point of the strip was to parody the idea of over-interpreting prophecies in an attempt to twist them beyond all recognition while trying to claim they came true and the idea of self-fulfilling prophecies.

To actually take the over-interpretation part of the strip literally IMO ruins the parody behind it.

[rodneyAnonymous]

One often meets his destiny on the road he took to avoid it.

[suszterpatt]

Letting it fall to Xykon is a worse thing, though.

And the party is in no condition to fight both the Linear Guild and Xykon, so the best course of action is to destroy it and regroup.
Is it though?

Once Xykon and co. show up and see that the gate is destroyed, they can just teleport to Kraagor's gate and set up camp instantly. Yeah, it might be guarded by a bunch of high level monsters, but I doubt they can do much against Xykon and Redcloak.

[The Glyphstone]

Yet again I didn't realize there was a second part to the comic....

[attriel]

As far as we know. Personally I think we have seen far too little of their adventuring party to really say one way or the other.

Also, everything we know about the Scribblers is "As told by Shojo, as told by Shojo's dad, as told by Soon"

So, ignoring "telephone" effect, it's still Soon talking. About how he was cool and good and friendly and seriously Girard was just a **** who hated me for no good reason!

biased much?

[Hopeless]

:nale: :"thinks he is so frigging smart following the good guys"
Foreshadowing?

Have been wondering about that, I am assuming Tarquin has brought another team to assist maybe a psionicist given he knows the Order doesn't have one and may have brought some anti-magic to counter Girard's expected magical traps and probably a rogue or two to get past the mechanical ones...

About time Ian Starshine and company turned up I think!:smallsmile:

[Zee Captain]

I have seen many posts regarding the explosion that will be produced when Girard's gate is destroyed. However, most of the reasons for this belief is how big the explosion at Soon's gate was and that it was the smallest rift. We have to consider though that the rifts produce a huge amount of energy and that all that energy was being held by a single sapphire, whereas Girard's gate is many times larger than the sapphire. I am sure that there will be an explosion but one that is not nearly as powerful as the one people are expecting.

[Math_Mage]

Dorukan's Gate and Lirian's Gate had pretty massive explosions IIRC. The former could be explained by a superpowerful self-destruct rune; the latter, not so much.


Yet again I didn't realize there was a second part to the comic....
Keep reading till you see the navigation bar at the bottom. Works for me. :smalltongue:

[Porthos]

IMO the whole point of the strip was to parody the idea of over-interpreting prophecies in an attempt to twist them beyond all recognition while trying to claim they came true and the idea of self-fulfilling prophecies.

To actually take the over-interpretation part of the strip literally IMO ruins the parody behind it.

One other thing about this strip.

The title of the strip?

The Simplest Explanation. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

As in the phrase "The simplest explanation is usually the correct one." Otherwise known as Occam's razor.

In this strip, the Oracle gave more and more convoluted/ridiculous explanations. Turns out, the Oracle got cut by Occam's razor. Or should I say Belkar's. :smallcool:

[omnitricks]

Hmmmm Mr Vampire, how loyal you are to the friend you literally drained the life out of :P

And lol at the Miko joke. Love it. Still wish she actually got to come back as an undead XD

[Anarion]

Yay, I totally called the fake wall. Surprised by Malack ignoring the Order though. It was nice, but at the same time, he's been around Tarquin long enough that he should realize that sort of generosity usually comes back to bite you. (Pun intended)


I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more discussion of the fact that Roy's essentially proposing suicide.

You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking Belkar is gonna take the fall here. Probably not for a while longer, though, not with Team Evil about to show up and Tarquin about to get back into things.


Actually, Roy knows that O'Chul survived the explosion. And this pyramid seems pretty heavily reinforced. I'd bet that Roy plans to have the order back out and he will destroy it himself, then have the rest of them run away. I do think that with Durkon gone and the gate defenseless that he's not very concerned for his own health, but I don't think it's suicidal either, just very damaging.

Yet again I didn't realize there was a second part to the comic....

You must have been quite confused at the thread discussion.

[Toper]

Yeah, it might be guarded by a bunch of high level monsters, but I doubt they can do much against Xykon and Redcloak.
The lesson of Soon's Gate is that the gates' protection may be better than you think. That's the entire reason why Xykon didn't assault the other gates after Azure City's was destroyed. Destroying an indefensible gate just makes sense, unless maybe it's the last one.

[Porthos]

Dorukan's Gate and Lirian's Gate had pretty massive explosions IIRC.

SoD Spoiler:

When Lirian's Gate ripped apart, it had the customary CRAAAAKAKOOOOOM s/fx but there was not an explosion.

Redcloak was about three feet from the Gate and didn't even suffer a scratch.

Furthermore, when Xykon and company came back to investigate the Rift, there was no further sign of damage in the area.

[asphias]

He didn't state it outright, but when listing how Belkar's prophecy had been 'fulfilled' he said "And as for the elf" or something like that. It could have just been something he said to stop Belkar killing him, but it could be a prophecy

EDIT: Here's the strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

yeah, but the point was, that each of those "explanations", were blatant lies, and the oracle knew it. he was just using it as a last ditch attempt, because he knew belkar was going to kill him.

at that point(before the oracle was killed by belkar) the prophecy had not been fulfilled yet, and once belkar killed the oracle, the prophecy was completed. if belkar kills anyone else later on, it will not be part of the prophecy, and there is really no need for it to happen.

[Anarion]

The lesson of Soon's Gate is that the gates' protection may be better than you think. That's the entire reason why Xykon didn't assault the other gates after Azure City's was destroyed. Destroying an indefensible gate just makes sense, unless maybe it's the last one.

Given what Blackwing saw, destroying the last one is anybody's guess as to what happens. That problem needs to be resolved.

[Toper]

It also strikes me that should this be a false gate, any tinkering with it might well cause the gate and the pyramid to self-destruct violently (probably with not quite the right noise). If no one looks under the rubble and sees the lack of a rift, that could be quite an effective last-ditch defense! What better way to stop someone looking for your gate, than to convince them it's already been destroyed?

[Math_Mage]

Actually, Roy knows that O'Chul survived the explosion. And this pyramid seems pretty heavily reinforced. I'd bet that Roy plans to have the order back out and he will destroy it himself, then have the rest of them run away. I do think that with Durkon gone and the gate defenseless that he's not very concerned for his own health, but I don't think it's suicidal either, just very damaging.
A) O-Chul is inhumanly tough by Word of God.
B) Miko got chopped in half.

I wouldn't give Roy great odds.


SoD Spoiler:

When Lirian's Gate ripped apart, it had the customary CRAAAAKAKOOOOOM s/fx but there was not an explosion.

Redcloak was about three feet from the Gate and didn't even suffer a scratch.

Furthermore, when Xykon and company came back to investigate the Rift, there was no further sign of damage in the area.
Ah, okay. That's what I get for citing SoD without having it in my lap open to the relevant page.

[The Glyphstone]

You must have been quite confused at the thread discussion.

Very much so, which is why I went back to re-read the comic, because I didn't remember Belkar saying anything about repression in this one.

[Liliet]

I keep getting surprised at people who assume Belkar`s going to stay to activate Explosive Runes if they are cast. Why would that be needed? The point of the ER is that they are a trap. So far V has been using it in this manner, and it has worked every single time. Why not enchant the word "SORRY" and just leave it be till Xykon or Nale comes in? If unlucky, it will only destroy the Gate. If lucky, it will destroy both the Gate and them. Okay, if it`s Xykon, he`ll only be temporarily delayed, but doesn`t Order need it?