3.5 How do you roll for casting spells?

[freyathefairy]

I can't remember can someone please help.

[Diarmuid]

Can you try to elaborate on what you're trying to ask?

"roll for casting spells" is pretty vague.

[CRtwenty]

Generally you don't. You might have to roll for some of the effects of your spell, or roll a Concentration check to keep the spell from fizzling or to cast it defensively. You also might roll either a Ranged Touch Attack or regular Touch Attack to see if you can connect with your spell. And you might even have to roll a Spell Penetration check if your target has Spell Resistance.

But you don't have to roll to cast the spell itself.

[Venger]

I can't remember can someone please help.

1) if a spell allows spell resistance, roll for that first. if you equal or exceed the target's SR with your check (1d20 + caster lvl + mods) then the spell takes effect and you proceed to the next step. if not, it fails and you stop, losing the slot. if the spell doesn't allow spell resistance, or your target doesn't have spell resistance, skip to step 2

2) if the spell requires a touch attack or is a ray (requiring a ranged touch attack) then you roll for that vs your target's touch AC (their AC ignoring armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses) your attack roll is your BA + dex + mods. if this equals or exceeds your target's touch AC, continue to step 3. if not, with a ranged touch, it fails and you stop, losing the slot. if it was melee touch, you retain the charge and can touch the same enemy or other enemies later on. if the spell doesn't require a touch attack, skip to step 3

3) if the spell allows a save, check your save DC (10 + lvl of spell + primary ability modifier + mods) and let your dm roll the target's save. if it equals or exceeds your save DC, the target has made the save. some spells will say "fort negates" or "ref half" meaning that a successful fortitude save will let the target have nothing happen, or a successful reflex save will allow them to take half damage. if the spell doesn't have a save, skip steps 3 and 4.

4)if they make the save, check the spell text to see if they suffer effects anyway. some spells, such as slay living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm) impose an effect even on a successful save. if they fail the save, check the spell text in order to see what happens.

5) if you need to roll dice for the spell for hit point damage, penalty, etc. now is the time you do it.

this should about cover it, but I too would find more explanation helpful

[Flickerdart]

1) if a spell allows spell resistance, roll for that first. if you equal or exceed the target's SR with your check (1d20 + caster lvl + mods) then the spell takes effect and you proceed to the next step. if not, it fails and you stop, losing the slot. if the spell doesn't allow spell resistance, or your target doesn't have spell resistance, skip to step 2

2) if the spell requires a touch attack or is a ray (requiring a ranged touch attack) then you roll for that vs your target's touch AC (their AC ignoring armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses) your attack roll is your BA + dex + mods. if this equals or exceeds your target's touch AC, continue to step 3. if not, it fails and you stop, losing the slot. if the spell doesn't require a touch attack, skip to step 3

3) if the spell allows a save, check your save DC (10 + lvl of spell + primary ability modifier + mods) and let your dm roll the target's save. if it equals or exceeds your save DC, the target has made the save. some spells will say "fort negates" or "ref half" meaning that a successful fortitude save will let the target have nothing happen, or a successful reflex save will allow them to take half damage. if the spell doesn't have a save, skip steps 3 and 4.

4)if they make the save, check the spell text to see if they suffer effects anyway. some spells, such as slay living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm) impose an effect even on a successful save. if they fail the save, check the spell text in order to see what happens.

5) if you need to roll dice for the spell for hit point damage, penalty, etc. now is the time you do it.

this should about cover it, but I too would find more explanation helpful
Pretty sure you roll attack before checking SR. If you miss, the SR never comes into play, because the spell never tried to affect the creature.

[Venger]

Pretty sure you roll attack before checking SR. If you miss, the SR never comes into play, because the spell never tried to affect the creature.

Is that right? I thought it was SR first, since if you can't overcome the creature's natural defenses, you never get a chance to hit it. is there an order of operations written somewhere? I was just going off memory, since there aren't a lot of spells that require all of these (freeze is the only one I can think of off the top of my head)

[Flickerdart]

Is that right? I thought it was SR first, since if you can't overcome the creature's natural defenses, you never get a chance to hit it. is there an order of operations written somewhere? I was just going off memory, since there aren't a lot of spells that require all of these (freeze is the only one I can think of off the top of my head)
Hitting something with a touch attack is not a magical effect. If I cast shocking grasp, and then grab you with my electrified hand, before I do so, spell resistance cannot possibly apply because the spell is not yet interacting with the creature. If I shoot a scorching ray at you, and miss, you are never affected by the ray, and spell resistance doesn't activate.

[CRtwenty]

When it comes to spells that activate on a Touch Attack (Shocking Grasp for instance) I don't believe you lose the spell if you miss your Touch Attack. You retain the charge and can still hit a target with subsequent Touch Attacks.

Ranged Touch attacks aren't covered by this, obviously.

[Venger]

When it comes to spells that activate on a Touch Attack (Shocking Grasp for instance) I don't believe you lose the spell if you miss your Touch Attack. You retain the charge and can still hit a target with subsequent Touch Attacks.

Ranged Touch attacks aren't covered by this, obviously.

my mistake, that's a false antecendent on my part. I said touch, then ranged touch, with the "lose the spell" only applying to ranged touch. I'll go back and reword.

[Deophaun]

The only time you need to roll to cast a spell is if you are distracted/taking damage. Then you need to make a Concentration check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm). If you fail the check, you not only fail to cast the spell, but you lose the spell slot as well.

The rest (SR, attack rolls, saving throws, damage, etc.) all come after you've successfully cast the spell.

[Barsoom]

For fun, I tried to come up with the most complete list of "things you need to roll to cast a spell". Here's what I have so far. Did I forget anything? Feel free to add.

- Concentration check, if applicable
- Armor Spell Failure check, if applicable
- DC 8 Caster level check, if attempting to cast a spell via [I]Precocios Apprentice
- Touch attack or ranged touch attack, if applicable
- Miss chance due to concealment, if applicable
- Caster level check to overcome SR, if applicable
- [opponent rolls] saving throw, if applicable
- Rolls that are specified in the spell's text, if any [eg., for Fireball: roll for damage, for Color Spray: roll for variable duration, for Dispel Magic: roll a caster level check, etc]


EDIT: if you're feeling nitpicky, you can say it's "list of things you need to roll to resolve a spell". After the first two three steps, the spell is cast.

[CRtwenty]

Well you also have to roll a successful Use Magic Device check if you're casting from a scroll and don't have the spell on your class list.

[Deophaun]

Well you also have to roll a successful Use Magic Device check if you're casting from activating a scroll and don't have the spell on your class list.
Fixed. Has nothing to do with casting :P

[CRtwenty]

Fixed. Has nothing to do with casting :P

Curse you D&D and your exact wording! :smallwink:

[Spuddles]

When it comes to spells that activate on a Touch Attack (Shocking Grasp for instance) I don't believe you lose the spell if you miss your Touch Attack. You retain the charge and can still hit a target with subsequent Touch Attacks.

Ranged Touch attacks aren't covered by this, obviously.

You are correct, though if you were to deliver the charge as part of an unarmed strike or natural attack, you lose the charge whether you miss or not.

[Lord Vukodlak]

You are correct, though if you were to deliver the charge as part of an unarmed strike or natural attack, you lose the charge whether you miss or not. I don't believe that's true. I haven't seen anything to indicate a touch spell would discharge if you missed with an unarmed strike.

[Spuddles]

I don't believe that's true. I haven't seen anything to indicate a touch spell would discharge if you missed with an unarmed strike.

Technically you are correct- there is no discharge if you miss; you simply lose the charge.


[edit]
actually the rules state the opposite of that. I thought I recently read that missing with an unarmed strike = losing the charge.

[CRtwenty]

Technically you are correct- there is no discharge if you miss; you simply lose the charge.


[edit]
actually the rules state the opposite of that. I thought I recently read that missing with an unarmed strike = losing the charge.

Nah it hangs around. It's why you gotta be careful with your high-fives after a battle.

EDIT: Or the world's best joy buzzer prank.

[Crake]

I love it how threads like this just keep going despite nobody actually knowing what the OP was asking

[TuggyNE]

I love it how threads like this just keep going despite nobody actually knowing what the OP was asking

Answer ALL the things!

[Chronos]

Nah it hangs around. It's why you gotta be careful with your high-fives after a battle.
I once cast a Cure spell with my familiar as the toucher, to try to attack a wraith. The familiar kept on missing, but eventually the rest of the party took the wraith down. At which point my familiar flew back, landed on my shoulder, and healed me.