Are we headed for a...

[Reddish Mage]

So, now we have Xykon arriving any minute. The linear guild is head back-ways, V is roaming around, and Tarquin is hatching some sort of scheme. The IFCC could also show its hand at anytime. Also, Elan have planned some sort of surprise with Durkon earlier that may or may not happen. Meanwhile, the heroes are poised to destroy the gate somehow.

So how many of these things are going to go on all at once?

[gallagher]

We know that Tarquin is committed to helping Elan with this quest, and is outside the pyramid. It could turn out that Tarquin meets up with Team Evil outside, and when he cant bluff or diplomance Team Evil away, that he outright opposes them outside the pyramid.

With Malack, Durkula and Zz'dtri heading outside, they would have casters as a backup to whatever plan Tarquin cooked up in the meantime, while the Order destroys the gate.

Team Evil might not ever make it into the pyramid if that confrontation is elongated due to a struggle for magical supremacy.

[ThatNickGuy]

Personally, I'm aching for a confrontation between Xykon and Tarquin. Who the hell knows how either one will react to the other!

[Olinser]

So, now we have Xykon arriving any minute. The linear guild is head back-ways, V is roaming around, and Tarquin is hatching some sort of scheme. The IFCC could also show its hand at anytime. Also, Elan have planned some sort of surprise with Durkon earlier that may or may not happen. Meanwhile, the heroes are poised to destroy the gate somehow.

So how many of these things are going to go on all at once?

If I had to guess, I'd say that Tarquin and Xykon are going to throw down, Tarquin is going to get the upper hand, but the IFCC is going to call in one of their Soul Markers to force V to intervene on Xykon's behalf, the fight either goes even or Xykon has the advantage, then Nale blunders back in, Tarquin tells him to negotiate with his 'friend', Xykon laughs at him, Malack realizes that Nale is worthless and chooses that minute to try to and kill him, and Z goes after V.

Now we've got basically a 5 way brawl, with Z trying to kill V, Malack trying to kill Nale, IFCC-V trying to kill Tarquin, Tarquin trying to kill Xykon, and Xykon trying to kill everybody.

[Math_Mage]

We've been heading for a clusterbomb finale to this arc ever since that one hobgoblin found the phylactery, if not earlier.

[Anarion]

Tarquin vs Xykon would probably be lackluster. Tarquin is crazy good, but unless he's got one of those portable anti-magic fields in a lead jar from Forgotten Realms, I don't see him choosing to go against Xykon one on one.

I think V is likely to be the greatest element of chaos, and I'm really worried that the IFCC is going to take over V's body and prevent the gate's destruction.

[gallagher]

Tarquin vs Xykon would probably be lackluster. Tarquin is crazy good, but unless he's got one of those portable anti-magic fields in a lead jar from Forgotten Realms, I don't see him choosing to go against Xykon one on one.

I think V is likely to be the greatest element of chaos, and I'm really worried that the IFCC is going to take over V's body and prevent the gate's destruction.
What about Tarquin makes you think that he doesnt have a toy in his pocket specifically for this situation?

I would guess that any martial-based character that has been around the block a few times, enough times to be a successful warlord in an unstable environment, has a trick or two prepared in case he needs to go toe to toe with a primary caster

[Math_Mage]

What about Tarquin makes you think that he doesnt have a toy in his pocket specifically for this situation?

I would guess that any martial-based character that has been around the block a few times, enough times to be a successful warlord in an unstable environment, has a trick or two prepared in case he needs to go toe to toe with a primary caster

And a blaster caster, at that.

Nonetheless, I think Anarion's point is that whatever Tarquin has up his sleeve doesn't matter when Xykon can incinerate it, the sleeve, and Tarquin without blinking an eye--Xykon's raw power will trump Tarquin's finesse.

[Anarion]

What about Tarquin makes you think that he doesnt have a toy in his pocket specifically for this situation?

I would guess that any martial-based character that has been around the block a few times, enough times to be a successful warlord in an unstable environment, has a trick or two prepared in case he needs to go toe to toe with a primary caster

Because Xykon's entire schtick is that adequate power>everything else and it would undermine the main villain of the comic if Tarquin just whips out the super anti-caster device that works on Liches he had been carrying all along.

Stepping away from the literary problem, Xykon has access to epic magic anyway. I would suspect that he has a way around a lot of defenses Tarquin might have.

Edit: I would also expect Tarquin to have the presence of mind to realize that even if he could fight Xykon, the resource expenditure would be too great given all the other threats running around right now.

[Ellye]

While I guess Tarquin is experienced and resourceful enough that he could likely stand toe-to-toe with high level casters - maybe even against one as strong as Redcloak, for example - I don't think Xykon play by the same rules.

Xykon is just at such a high power level that, unless you're also at that league, "preparations" doesn't really mean much anymore.

[Fish]

I'm expecting the following:

Tarquin will want to kill Nale for knowing Xykon was en route and failing to warn him. (Zz'dtri scryed Elan's note, so the Linears knew an evil eppic sorcerer litch was on the way.) Tarquin may see Xylon as Nale's attempt to overthrow him.

Zz'dtri will see Vaarsuvius and realize that Qaar lied to him -- there was not, in fact, a plane of torture, and Qaar's coordinates were faulty.

Malack will try to kill Nale, as we know.

If they're outdoors, the red dragon will show up and do her Death Star impersonation.

The iFCC will try to protect the Order of the Stick and help destroy the Gate -- they don't want Tarquin to have it. This will make Nale furious at Sabine, who wants more than anything to destroy Rlan.

Ian will show up to destroy Tarquin.

Bozzok will show up to destroy Ian.

And the bounty hunters will show up to collect on Nale.



Either that ... Or Malack and Tarqiin meet Xykon and say, "Hey, Steve. Long time no see." Or something similar. Total anticlimax.

[Ionbound]

Maybe Tarquin has Roy's Anti-Caster feat and the fist we see it is in a confrontation between T and X. I imaging X ports to the Pyramid entry (assuming the interior is perm-warded vs teleportation) and doesn't give T a chance to diplomance his way out. T is forced to fight, puts up a good show but is eventually defeated, killed, and raised as undead.

[Mike Havran]

I don't know why so many people assume Tarquin will be willing (or even eager) to do battle with Xykon. He is savvy enough to know that he'll most likely end up killed as a testament to the scenery-chewing villain's power. Clearly, if the guy is bent on the domination of the entire world and a hero of Elan's caliber hasn't been able to stop him so far, he has to be some serious business.

I think Tarquin went to provide some sort of support to Elan - and left Malack with Nale in case his stupid son tried to spy on him or such stuff.

[The Pilgrim]

Xykon will arrive within 1000 feet of Giriard's just in time to hear the Kraakkaboooom (or whatever it's spelled, not gonna research it now).

[Prowl]

Tarquin was able to handle the Order sans only V all by himself, and it didn't appear to be terribly challenging for him. We know he's loaded to the gills with magic and had kingdoms' worth of resources at his disposal. I don't expect him to have to back down to anyone.

[Reddish Mage]

If I had to guess, I'd say that Tarquin and Xykon are going to throw down, Tarquin is going to get the upper hand, but the IFCC is going to call in one of their Soul Markers to force V to intervene on Xykon's behalf, the fight either goes even or Xykon has the advantage, then Nale blunders back in, Tarquin tells him to negotiate with his 'friend', Xykon laughs at him, Malack realizes that Nale is worthless and chooses that minute to try to and kill him, and Z goes after V.

Now we've got basically a 5 way brawl, with Z trying to kill V, Malack trying to kill Nale, IFCC-V trying to kill Tarquin, Tarquin trying to kill Xykon, and Xykon trying to kill everybody.

That's very entertainingly specific.

[137beth]

If I had to guess, I'd say that Tarquin and Xykon are going to throw down, Tarquin is going to get the upper hand, but the IFCC is going to call in one of their Soul Markers to force V to intervene on Xykon's behalf, the fight either goes even or Xykon has the advantage, then Nale blunders back in, Tarquin tells him to negotiate with his 'friend', Xykon laughs at him, Malack realizes that Nale is worthless and chooses that minute to try to and kill him, and Z goes after V.

Now we've got basically a 5 way brawl, with Z trying to kill V, Malack trying to kill Nale, IFCC-V trying to kill Tarquin, Tarquin trying to kill Xykon, and Xykon trying to kill everybody.

Yea...no. First off, I doubt the IFCC is going to try to control V in this book, it is a pretty big game-changer, and there are still two more books left.
But more directly, I can't really envision Tarquin being a remotely credible threat to Xykon. Tarquin would need some pretty serious help to avoid being slaughtered in the first round.
On top of that, I'd expect that if Tarquin actually knew that the "friend" of Nale was an epic lich sorcerer, then he wouldn't believe for a second in Nale's alleged ability to get info from Xykon--that's why Nale avoided telling Malack and Tarquin who his "friend" was. If Tarquin actually met Xykon, I don't think he would even waste his breathe trying to tell Nale to negotiate with Xykon. More likely, he'd die. Or run.

[Bulldog Psion]

I think, as they would say in Schlock Mercenary, Charlie has been dancing the Foxtrot for a long, long time already here.

We're not headed for a cluster****, it's here and has been going on for a while.

Girard's dead.
The gate defenses are destroyed.
The defense is all dead.
Multiple ill-intentioned, highly powerful people know exactly where the gate is.
The Linear Guild is here.
Tarquin's gang is here.
The epic lich is incoming.
Durkon, the most powerful member of the Order, has been turned into a vampire.
Belkar is almost dead.
V is isolated and emotionally crippled.
They are moments away from a KRAKAKOOM!

In what way couldn't this be classified as a Charlie Foxtrot? :smallamused:

[David Argall]

I think, as they would say in Schlock Mercenary, Charlie has been dancing the Foxtrot for a long, long time already here.

We're not headed for a cluster****, it's here and has been going on for a while.

In what way couldn't this be classified as a Charlie Foxtrot?
Pretty much, but the pace seems likely to pick up. Things going boom seem to fit so well.

[Olinser]

Yea...no. First off, I doubt the IFCC is going to try to control V in this book, it is a pretty big game-changer, and there are still two more books left.
But more directly, I can't really envision Tarquin being a remotely credible threat to Xykon. Tarquin would need some pretty serious help to avoid being slaughtered in the first round.
On top of that, I'd expect that if Tarquin actually knew that the "friend" of Nale was an epic lich sorcerer, then he wouldn't believe for a second in Nale's alleged ability to get info from Xykon--that's why Nale avoided telling Malack and Tarquin who his "friend" was. If Tarquin actually met Xykon, I don't think he would even waste his breathe trying to tell Nale to negotiate with Xykon. More likely, he'd die. Or run.

It's a big game changer - that they can use THREE TIMES. Two more books... once per book. Especially because now, they can actually use it without the rest of the OOTS finding out. The scenario is perfectly crafted for them to take control of V - and if they knock V unconscious before they use it, V hirself may legitimately be totally unaware that they even did it!

And I"ve said it before many times - it actually benefits Nale that he EXAGGERATES how deadly Xykon is.

If the guy is a random NPC off the street, Tarquin (and more importantly, Malack), may think they can get what they need from him without Nale.

The only way Nale is useful is if Xykon is such an unbelievable badass that Tarquin poses no threat to him, and Nale's negotiation is his only option.

[Olinser]

That's very entertainingly specific.

You heard it here first! :smallbiggrin:

[Jay R]

Tarquin does not defeat people in straight-up combat. He defeats them by working for them and leading them to their doom. If Tarquin decided that Xykon needed to go, he would not attack him.

[mhsmith]

It's a big game changer - that they can use THREE TIMES. Two more books... once per book. Especially because now, they can actually use it without the rest of the OOTS finding out. The scenario is perfectly crafted for them to take control of V - and if they knock V unconscious before they use it, V hirself may legitimately be totally unaware that they even did it!

And I"ve said it before many times - it actually benefits Nale that he EXAGGERATES how deadly Xykon is.

If the guy is a random NPC off the street, Tarquin (and more importantly, Malack), may think they can get what they need from him without Nale.

The only way Nale is useful is if Xykon is such an unbelievable badass that Tarquin poses no threat to him, and Nale's negotiation is his only option.

Actually... there really isn't a limit on the number of times they can use take control, just a limit on the amount of time it's good for (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). Now, 5 minutes here and 2 minutes there may not make a whole lot of sense, but since their bargain didn't specify "we must use all the time in one sitting" I don't think that would apply.

[Sunken Valley]

Actually... there really isn't a limit on the number of times they can use take control, just a limit on the amount of time it's good for (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). Now, 5 minutes here and 2 minutes there may not make a whole lot of sense, but since their bargain didn't specify "we must use all the time in one sitting" I don't think that would apply.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html This comic seems to imply they are for fixed periods of 3.1, 20.6 and 20.6 mins.

@Olinser: As good as your story is, it misses out some things. Xykon will have Redcloak and MITD with him. Tarquin has KilKil and his "surprise" (either his army, his adventuring buddies or a petrified Ian Starshine). Nale has Z and the Piscodaemon. Malack has Vampire Durkon and the Barbed Devil. I suspect Malack would die in such a confrontation but not T. Tarquin can't die just yet as he has to be beaten by Elan's Plan (or Elan's Plan has to take effect). Also, I think the "Deal" takes a different effect to possessing V. I personally believe it allows the IFCC to manifest on the material plane. That would be a bigger twist and it would get them personally involved.

[Smolder]

But the first thing we learned about Tarquin was that he likes to lead from behind the throne.

From this perspective, T would realize that he's better off siding with X and backstabbing him (Redcloak-style) than a frontal assault.

[Olinser]

Actually... there really isn't a limit on the number of times they can use take control, just a limit on the amount of time it's good for (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). Now, 5 minutes here and 2 minutes there may not make a whole lot of sense, but since their bargain didn't specify "we must use all the time in one sitting" I don't think that would apply.

Well, that depends entirely on how the contract was written. I acknowledge it could go either way.

And it would actually be much more beneficial for them to use it only 1 minute or so at a time.

Think about it. By D&D rules, a combat round is only 6 seconds long.

By using a mere 1 minute of their time, they could make V sit around and do nothing for TEN ROUNDS in the middle of a combat.

Even using 6 or 12 seconds at a time to force a spell fizzle. How many combats can turn in the space of a single round by forcing a party's primary caster to botch 2 spells in a row? Or worse, suddenly do a 180 and blast the OOTS instead?

[Bulldog Psion]

It's a big game changer - that they can use THREE TIMES. Two more books... once per book. Especially because now, they can actually use it without the rest of the OOTS finding out. The scenario is perfectly crafted for them to take control of V - and if they knock V unconscious before they use it, V hirself may legitimately be totally unaware that they even did it!

And I"ve said it before many times - it actually benefits Nale that he EXAGGERATES how deadly Xykon is.

If the guy is a random NPC off the street, Tarquin (and more importantly, Malack), may think they can get what they need from him without Nale.

The only way Nale is useful is if Xykon is such an unbelievable badass that Tarquin poses no threat to him, and Nale's negotiation is his only option.

Not sure that Xykon's deadliness needs to be exaggerated too much. Dude is frickin' scary. :smallwink:

That said, Xykon isn't going to give two hoots about Nale. He won't even remember him. If Nale stands there yakking at him, he's likely to catch some "fire and lightning" going the other way as the lich brushes past.

[Olinser]

Not sure that Xykon's deadliness needs to be exaggerated too much. Dude is frickin' scary. :smallwink:

That said, Xykon isn't going to give two hoots about Nale. He won't even remember him. If Nale stands there yakking at him, he's likely to catch some "fire and lightning" going the other way as the lich brushes past.

I agree. But Tarquin doesn't know that.

To stay alive, Nale needed to convince Tarquin that he was the only way he can get the Gate ritual from Xykon. He doesn't actually have to be able to negotiate with Xykon. The second Xykon actually shows up I wouldn't be surprised if Nale pulls a, 'Hey Xykon, my old boss, these guys are planning to kill you and take your Gate!' And then make a break for freedom while Xykon lays waste.

[Mike Havran]

The second Xykon actually shows up I wouldn't be surprised if Nale pulls a, 'Hey Xykon, my old boss, these guys are planning to kill you and take your Gate!' And then make a break for freedom while Xykon lays waste.

Xykon, stupid as he is, actually isn't quite that easy to manipulate. He certainly won't mind destroying a bunch of unknown guys, but I think he'll find blasting the moron who thinks he can channel his power on a say so much more amusing. On the other hand, if Nale tries to pull something elaborate, chances are that
1. he'll fail, as usual
2. Tarquin figures out what's going on. I would be surprised if he hasn't already thought about the possibility that his loved son will side with his former boss against daddy.
Very tricky business...

[mhsmith]

Well, that depends entirely on how the contract was written. I acknowledge it could go either way.

And it would actually be much more beneficial for them to use it only 1 minute or so at a time.

Think about it. By D&D rules, a combat round is only 6 seconds long.

By using a mere 1 minute of their time, they could make V sit around and do nothing for TEN ROUNDS in the middle of a combat.

Even using 6 or 12 seconds at a time to force a spell fizzle. How many combats can turn in the space of a single round by forcing a party's primary caster to botch 2 spells in a row? Or worse, suddenly do a 180 and blast the OOTS instead?

Given that there isn't a physical contract, I'd think that any interpretation of any kind gray area would be in favor of the IFCC. V agreed to lend her soul to them for an amount of time equal to the length of the soul splice. "All in one go" was never specified, so I wouldn't assume it'd be included.

Of course, we could always see a reversal here and at least an attempted Faustian Rebellion (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FaustianRebellion). V doesn't strike me as the sort who'd honor the deal just to keep her word (she's not even Lawful, much less Lawful Stupid), so that's at least a potential dramatic path, unless the IFCC has a foolproof way of enforcing the contract (which could certainly be the case).

[Jay R]

I agree. But Tarquin doesn't know that.

Tarquin does know that Nale knows who knows how to control teh gate, and Tarquin doesn't.

From strip #821 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html):
Tarquin: And you know this ritual?
Nale: No, but I know who does. I've worked with them before. You won't get it from them without my help.

Tarquin doesn't necessarily think he needs Nale's help to negotiate, but he still doesn't know the ones he needs to negotiate with are Xykon and Redcloak.

[Harbinger]

Actually, it just occurred to me: perhaps the Linear Guild and the Order will team up against the common enemy of Redcloak and Xykon.

I also think Xykon will kill Tarquin. Think about it, if Elan kills Tarquin, Tarquin wins by becoming a legend. If Roy or some other Order member kills him, he still wins. The only way for him to lose is if he was crushed under the heel of a more powerful villain, like Xykon. If not in this arc, probably in the next.

[raymundo]

Actually, it just occurred to me: perhaps the Linear Guild and the Order will team up against the common enemy of Redcloak and Xykon.

I also think Xykon will kill Tarquin. Think about it, if Elan kills Tarquin, Tarquin wins by becoming a legend. If Roy or some other Order member kills him, he still wins. The only way for him to lose is if he was crushed under the heel of a more powerful villain, like Xykon. If not in this arc, probably in the next.

Boy, I would love that..

"-port."
"Man, I thought he was called Girard, and not Geriatric. WrongEye, your turn."
"I'm n-"
"Implosion."

THE END

[Kish]

Boy, I would love that..

"-port."
"Man, I thought he was called Girard, and not Geriatric. WrongEye, your turn."
"I'm n-"
"Implosion."

THE END
Much as I would enjoy that, you know the forums would erupt with screams about how Tarquin could possibly have blown a Fortitude save against a mere level 17 cleric.

[Copperdragon]

Boy, I would love that..

"-port."
"Man, I thought he was called Girard, and not Geriatric. WrongEye, your turn."
"I'm n-"
"Implosion."

THE END

So far, everything has been played out by plot conventions. Tarquin has been build up as The Badass Who Has A Role To Play.
Something as the above would truly be hilarious and awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[F.Harr]

Tarquin does not defeat people in straight-up combat. He defeats them by working for them and leading them to their doom. If Tarquin decided that Xykon needed to go, he would not attack him.


But the first thing we learned about Tarquin was that he likes to lead from behind the throne.

From this perspective, T would realize that he's better off siding with X and backstabbing him (Redcloak-style) than a frontal assault.

That's what I would have thought. Tarquin would have to make himself the primary antagonist in order to "beat" Xykon. He's much more likely to be sneaky about it.

"So far, everything has been played out by plot conventions. Tarquin has been build up as The Badass Who Has A Role To Play.
"Something as the above would truly be hilarious and awesome. "

Huh. That's a point.

[JBiddles]

What's going on is already shot to pieces.

1. Girard is (probably) dead
2. Familicide has destroyed the Gate's defences
3. V is lost, panicking, sobbing and in the company of a devil
4. SNAKE KILLS HUMBLE DWARF
5. Belkar is essentially useless due to his injuries
6. Xykon is coming.

I think the IFCC will be more subtle than just possessing Vaarsuvius to harm/help the Order. She's clearly going to be useful to them in some way, but I have a feeling it'll be more interesting than that. As for Xykon vs. Tarquin, I'll eat my hat if Tarquin doesn't have some contingency in place for if he does get killed - but there's no guarantee they'll even interact. Xykon can probably go through the pyramid's teleportation wards (which it may not even have since all its defenders are apparently dead) like Belkar through the Oracle, especially since Word of Giant is that Girard never took Epic Spellcasting.

:xykon: "Anti-teleportation wards? That's adorable! Epic Teleport."

[denthor]

Olinser[
QUOTE]Now we've got basically a 5 way brawl, with Z trying to kill V, Malack trying to kill Nale, IFCC-V trying to kill Tarquin, Tarquin trying to kill Xykon, and Xykon trying to kill everybody.
A battle of five armies!!!!

Say it is no so.


The eagles are coming the eagles are coming!!!!!

[Gift Jeraff]

We've been heading for a... since #380 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html).

[raymundo]

Much as I would enjoy that, you know the forums would erupt with screams about how Tarquin could possibly have blown a Fortitude save against a mere level 17 cleric.

That's fine, I trust there will be people argueing for Redcloaks "major artifact" boosting his DC.

"Nuh uh! The cloak gives him at least a +6 to Wisdom! That DC is totally unbeatable" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html)


..anyways, it's very unlikely something like this will happen, if only because of Elans preparations

[F.Harr]

A battle of five armies!!!!

Say it is no so.


The eagles are coming the eagles are coming!!!!!

But small eagles, rather than giant ones. Because they're inside, you see.