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Azreal
2013-06-21, 06:35 PM
How do I go about creating something like a spy network or a mafia. What are the building blocks and how do I make it hard enough to get infiltrate and figure out the boss guy that's its fun and a challenge but not to simple to be obvious or too hard that they just give up?

TheCountAlucard
2013-06-21, 06:43 PM
What game? What version?

Azreal
2013-06-21, 06:51 PM
Well I'm thinking in general terms of d20 modern and pathfinder.

The Fury
2013-06-21, 07:21 PM
The basics of any organized crime is that you should never do more than what you can get away with. This is especially true when the organization is new. Though how much you can get away with is kind of setting/situation dependent. Just keep in mind that a criminal organization should have plausible deniablity on its side.
There's typical sort of mafia-ish schemes like forcing businesses to pay "insurance," but maybe this mafia actually goes out of its way to insure that these businesses actually are successful. With that being said having a criminal organization cultivate a good public image would be conducive to its long-term success.
Finally, if magic is available a mafia or spy network should employ spellcasters. Specifically, Enchanters and Diviners because they're both very useful for influencing public opinion and finding out what's going on respectively.
Hopefully that'll get you started.

Mutazoia
2013-06-21, 08:16 PM
How do I go about creating something like a spy network or a mafia. What are the building blocks and how do I make it hard enough to get infiltrate and figure out the boss guy that's its fun and a challenge but not to simple to be obvious or too hard that they just give up?

It depends on how large you want your network to be. With a large enough network (in the case of Organized Crime) everybody might "know" who the big boss is, they just can't pin anything on him.

Assuming you don't want your network that big you would have a basic structure just like you have at a mom and pop style store...

you have your mooks, the guys that do all the dirty work i.e. collect the protection money, burn down the places that don't pay protection money, run the hookers, beat up the guys that mistreat the hookers, ets. Think Ray Leota's character in Goodfellas...

Then you have an area boss. He's like the department manager for the store. He oversees the mooks in a certain area, keeping them on task, handling problems too big for the mooks but not big enough to go up the chain. He'll be in charge of about 4 blocks or so (depending on the size of the town). Think Robert DeNero in Goodfellas

He reports to the under boss, or the Assistant manager. This is the guy that handles the day to day details of the organization. He runs the area bosses, collect's their income and handles things that they kick up to him...rival gang members, police bribes ets. (no real solid correlation in Goodfellas, so think Robert Duval in Godfather)

Then there's going to be the boss...the store owner, the guy at the top of the food chain that collects the money from the under bosses make the Major decisions and sets policy, green lights hits but generally sits back and enjoy's the spoils.

To ferret all this out, you find out who's doing the collecting, watch him until you see who he gives it to...watch HIM long enough to see who HE gives it to...all the way up. Of course you may have some one wondering why your watching their boys and have their shiv ask you not so nicely to stop....

Azreal
2013-06-22, 02:12 AM
Alright and how does that differ from a secret society, like a cult or Illuminati type deal?

Mr Beer
2013-06-22, 02:24 AM
Alright and how does that differ from a secret society, like a cult or Illuminati type deal?

They care about hidden knowledge, gods and the occult. The mob care about money, a crude sort of power, money, gratifying base appetites and money.

EDIT

Some gangsters, particularly the upper echelons, will seek to distinguish themselves from 'common' criminals. They may live off pimping and protection rackets but will have pretensions. Maybe they are Godfathers and IRA types who allegedly keep their own neighbourhood clean. Maybe they collect art and sip fine wines. They might know their stuff or they might be obvious and crude noveaux-riche that the aristocrats laugh at.

Azreal
2013-06-22, 02:30 AM
I really appreciate the help guys a lot.

My last question however complicates things a little. With magic involved, could the pcs even see the money handoffs? There's ways around with simple illusions let alone just flat out teleporting.

Mr Beer
2013-06-22, 02:37 AM
It depends how they run. More organised mafia will have long standing rackets which involve lots of small collections, for petty-ante protection or numbers or some other kind of operating fee. These are unlikely to involve a lot of magic. At least until the dons get their cut.

But they probably also have operators who do big jobs, armed robbery and warehouse theft and stealing valuable goods in transit. These guys are either independents paying off the mafia or affiliated mob. Either way, the loot needs to be sold and the big boys get their taste. Those kind of money transfers will be done clandestinely.

Kazemi
2013-06-22, 10:40 AM
I really appreciate the help guys a lot.

My last question however complicates things a little. With magic involved, could the pcs even see the money handoffs? There's ways around with simple illusions let alone just flat out teleporting.

Teleportation is pretty high level magic, so it would be highly impractical to teleport all of the money exchanges. And that's ignoring what happens if someone slips in something that can be Located or coins with Explosive Runes (to draw attention to the location when someone explodes).

As for illusions, those allow will saves. Nothing attracts attention like "And you notice that the loaf of bread that baker is passing the man over there is actually a bag." This shows that they have something to hide, which breaks their plausible deniability. Plus, no matter what level the guards are, they're going to pass that 5% of the time (crit success). That's way too high of a success rate to do on all of their transactions. It's more likely they would do it mundanely, though the larger jobs would certainly use Teleportation and the like.


You should also establish that magic is not considered permissible evidence of crime by itself. I explain this IC when the PCs bring it up, but they might know just from Common Knowledge if they live there. Now, the mafia still wants to use anti-divination magic (for "personal privacy", of course) since it's possible that the guard or PCs could find out what they're doing, act on it, and catch some REAL evidence in the process.

Examples
Kubota, from OotS page 595, was able to get away with his shenanigans through a mixture of class features and other magic to evade or outright ignore various the methods of divination that the Saphire Guard employed. He's actually a pretty good model for this sort of thing.

Legend of the 5 Rings did that when the Scorpion Clan had a revered Lion Clan guy murdered. After he died, the Lion Clan used their ancestor magic to bring the dead guy back, who testified that he had witnessed his killer and that it was a Scorpion Clan dude who killed him. That Scorpion was put to death, but a year later it came out that he not only had a stone cold alibi, but the real killer gave in to the guilt and turned himself in (I think it had been an accident with the dead guy's servant or something. An "accident".)

Azreal
2013-06-22, 10:46 AM
I thought illusions only allowed for Will Saves if you suspected they were illusions?

Kazemi
2013-06-22, 11:12 AM
I thought illusions only allowed for Will Saves if you suspected they were illusions?

Whoops.:smallfrown: Kind of, it looks like they need to "study it carefully or interact" in order to get a will save. In this case, the PCs likely wouldn't get saves, although the guards still may if they've received reports of racketeering. It would be a much smaller chance than 5%, that's for sure.

Of course, if they notice even once then it could cause quite a few problems.

Azreal
2013-06-22, 12:43 PM
So even in low magic setting, spellcasters are still super useful. :smallsmile:

Mutazoia
2013-06-22, 10:09 PM
I really appreciate the help guys a lot.

My last question however complicates things a little. With magic involved, could the pcs even see the money handoffs? There's ways around with simple illusions let alone just flat out teleporting.

That would depend on the magic level of the campaign world....but mostly the answer is Yes, the would still see the handoffs. Even in a high magic world it's unlikely that the low level mooks are going to have enough magic to completely conceal their movements 24/7 (not to mention they're the MOB, who's going to cause them any trouble?) You wouldn't really have to worry about magical interference until the sub boss level... some counter magic might be necessary or just some really good detective work...but that's what games are about right? :)

Azreal
2013-06-22, 11:18 PM
Working with D20 Modern so spellcasters would be scarce and magic on the whole in this world wouldbt be believed in.

Basically only high end stuff would involve magic.

Barlen
2013-06-25, 04:40 PM
Some one else mentioned Goodfellas, so I'll drop a mention of Steven Brust's Jhereg and the books that follow. It's a really good mix of fantasy and real world criminal organizations. It would serve as a good base for what your trying to do.


In short, for a Mafia based organization the low to mid level boss of an area would be somewhat common knowledge with a certain level of (the previously mentioned) plausible deniability. They have a front for their illegal activities and then bribe the local police organizations as needed. As long as the bribes are paid and the mob stays within certain limits (slaughtering innocent people in broad daylight is generally over the line) the government leaves them mostly alone.

It's when they can't stay in those limits that things get interesting. Territory wars for example.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-06-25, 04:45 PM
So even in low magic setting, spellcasters are still super useful. :smallsmile:

Noooo, in low magic settings, there's a whole lot less magic items that non-casters can use to counter casters.

D&D is not low magic. Don't bother trying.

Mr Beer
2013-06-25, 05:44 PM
If you want Mafia related inspiration, then some really great films that are at least somewhat true to reality and also showcase gang structure include: Goodfellas, Godfather I & II and Casino. The Sopranos is good and also gives a feel of the non-gangster side of gangsterism, as does Pulp Fiction. The Untouchables could be written from the PCs point of view.